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[Big-E]

It's not 5 percent. It doesn't factor foreign money. Houses are being bought by Canadians but their money ain't in Canada. My wife is friends with 3 women who have Canadian passports and all have houses despite not working.

Do you really think that every realtor is advertising in Mandarin for only 5% of the market? Is there any business that focuses their advertising to 5% of the market?

 

[Tiktaalik]

It's not 5 percent. It doesn't factor foreign money. Houses are being bought by Canadians but their money ain't in Canada. My wife is friends with 3 women who have Canadian passports and all have houses despite not working.

Do you really think that every realtor is advertising in Mandarin for only 5% of the market? Is there any business that focuses their advertising to 5% of the market?

Yes the "5%" is the government's highly massaged best attempt to get the lowest possible number and doesn't reflect the actual amount of foreign capital investment in BC, which is clearly much higher.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

is that the Carte Soleil?
LOL

same thing happened to me in NYC in ten years ago

Yup. I've had it accepted outside of Québec before so I didn't think it'd be an issue. I had left my passport at my host's place and don't have a driver's license, so I was forced to leave the place as I had no other ID. Hilarious as I don't even remotely look underage and I wasn't going to order alcohol anyway (I don't drink). Still, I had to leave, as I couldn't even be present in the bar (despite them letting me into the casino in the first place!! WTF). Americans can be so dumb about that stuff.

Is that your health card? Those aren't even valid ID up here, for the most part.

Really? Where is "here" for you? FFS, it's government-issued!

 

[orochi91]

Really? Where is "here" for you? FFS, it's government-issued!

Here in Mississauga (Southern Ontario, and likely for the rest of the GTA), our Health Cards aren't really a valid form of government ID.

For instance, banks don't accept it, as I had lost my Debit card once and in order to even process my replacement request they required photo ID (like a Driver License); they outright rejected my health card, since it isn't considered a valid photo ID.

Even for government services (like renewing passports, changing official addresses, renewing Insurance sticker for vehicles, and etc) the health card isn't considered valid ID, lmao

It's utterly absurd, to be honest.

 

[maharg]

Alberta health cards are just a piece of paper with your name and PHN on them. They are often used as secondary ID, but they aren't valid on their own, even technically at a lab getting blood drawn.

 

[diaspora]

I'm not entirely comfortable with the comparison between US Dems and the Tories here. Maybe the right of center guys like Webb but like... Trost and the social conservative caucuses would not be out of place from Romney or McCain conservatives. The CPC is a broad enough coalition that parallels can be drawn with the GOP though Trump and Cruz sort of throws that shit out the window.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Here in Mississauga (Southern Ontario, and likely for the rest of the GTA), our Health Cards aren't really a valid form of government ID.

For instance, banks don't accept it, as I had lost my Debit card once and in order to even process my replacement request they required photo ID (like a Driver License); they outright rejected my health card, since it isn't considered a valid photo ID.

Even for government services (like renewing passports, changing official addresses, renewing Insurance sticker for vehicles, and etc) the health card isn't considered valid ID, lmao

It's utterly absurd, to be honest.

Whaaaat

That's completely crazy, unless your health card has no photo on it for some reason? The RAMQ card here is a very common form of photo ID. It's an official government ID, it has your picture and birth date on it and literally everyone has it.

What do you do in Ontario when you need a photo ID and don't have a passport nor a driver's license?

 

[diaspora]

Whaaaat

That's completely crazy, unless your health card has no photo on it for some reason? The RAMQ card here is a very common form of photo ID. It's an official government ID, it has your picture and birth date on it and literally everyone has it.

What do you do in Ontario when you need a photo ID and don't have a passport nor a driver's license?

You can get a Photo Card in ON.

 

[orochi91]

Whaaaat

That's completely crazy, unless your health card has no photo on it for some reason? The RAMQ card here is a very common form of photo ID. It's an official government ID, it has your picture and birth date on it and literally everyone has it.

What do you do in Ontario when you need a photo ID and don't have a passport nor a driver's license?

Nope, my health card has a photo on it, yet it's still not considered a valid ID!

Thankfully I have my Drivers' Licence on me at all times, but if I had neither a DL or a passport, then an official Ontario Photo Card would be my government ID.

It all feels like a joke gone wrong, lol

You can get a Photo Card in ON.

+1

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Ah, I see. In Québec we don't have that, but the RAMQ card is essentially the Québec photo ID.

 

[Stumpokapow]

in the us mostly they want a driver's license or passport to buy booze, and they id everyone no matter how old you are in most places. i'm quite a good many years past 21, i've got a beard down to my armpit, and i still get IDed.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Whaaaat

That's completely crazy, unless your health card has no photo on it for some reason? The RAMQ card here is a very common form of photo ID. It's an official government ID, it has your picture and birth date on it and literally everyone has it.

What do you do in Ontario when you need a photo ID and don't have a passport nor a driver's license?

Our health cards (Ontario) even have photos, but you still can't use them as an official form of ID. Apparently it's because of the Personal Health Information Protection Act (section 34, I think?), which is concerned about people mishandling or misusing health card numbers. That conflicts a little with the Alcohol and Gaming Commission, which leaves it up to the discretion of individual bars and other liquor-selling establishments whether they'll accept it. Most just don't, at least in my experience.

I don't drive, so I've had a Photo Card for a few years now. I always get weird looks every time I use it, but no one has ever refused it, thankfully.

 

[maharg]

You can get a Photo Card in ON.

I call it a walking license. It's what I have for photo ID (except the Alberta equivalent). It looks pretty much exactly like a driver's license except without the vehicle class field.

 

[SRG01]

i've got a beard down to my armpit

There must be a story behind this

I call it a walking license. It's what I have for photo ID (except the Alberta equivalent). It looks pretty much exactly like a driver's license except without the vehicle class field.

I think all provinces are obligated to provide some sort of photo ID for a cost.

 

[gutter_trash]

no Canadian province should ever refuse Quebec's Carte Soleil as proper ID.

It is the standard official photo ID card that any Quebec resident can get for free

A Driver's License is on a another level because you actually need to know how to drive to get one and you have to pay for it

So, La Carte Soleil should be considered as proper photo ID in other provinces

 

[Stumpokapow]

Since I'm back in NL for a few weeks, I decided to listen to talk radio because I'm a giant idiot.

The major scandal of the day: Newfies are mad because a Newfoundlander won't be appointed to the Atlantic slot of the Supreme Court this year (there's never been a Newfoundlander on the court). This is because the federal government asked the province if any provincial judges were functionally bilingual, and the province replied "no." Talk radio listeners seem to think that french does not matter, and anyway you can get stuff translated, and anyway even if french does matter everyone can't be good at everything. One of those classic "We don't really know why we're mad, but we're really really mad!" issues.

If representation on the Supreme Court is all that important, maybe one of our provincial judges could... do what everyone else in the country does and take french classes?

 

[SRG01]

Since I'm back in NL for a few weeks, I decided to listen to talk radio because I'm a giant idiot.

The major scandal of the day: Newfies are mad because a Newfoundlander won't be appointed to the Atlantic slot of the Supreme Court this year (there's never been a Newfoundlander on the court). This is because the federal government asked the province if any provincial judges were functionally bilingual, and the province replied "no." Talk radio listeners seem to think that french does not matter, and anyway you can get stuff translated, and anyway even if french does matter everyone can't be good at everything. One of those classic "We don't really know why we're mad, but we're really really mad!" issues.

If representation on the Supreme Court is all that important, maybe one of our provincial judges could... do what everyone else in the country does and take french classes?

That's very surprising that there are no bilingual judges in NL at the moment. I thought NL had a relatively higher rate of bilingualism? Or is NL an exception compared to other Atlantic provinces?

 

[PumpkinSpice]

That's very surprising that there are no bilingual judges in NL at the moment. I thought NL had a relatively higher rate of bilingualism? Or is NL an exception compared to other Atlantic provinces?

There's a very large French-or-bilingual(-or-chiac) Acadian minority in New Brunswick, to the extent that NB is the only really bilingual province. NS and PEI have much smaller minorities of Acadians, and I'm not really sure what's up on the rock.

I guess people outside the east coast aren't really aware of how different these provinces are.

 

[mlclmtckr]

I thought ON was also officially bilingual?

Also yeah from my small experience (went to college right next to the NS/NB border) the francophone population is largely Acadian and mostly concentrated in NB.

 

[fallout]

I thought ON was also officially bilingual?

Also yeah from my small experience (went to college right next to the NS/NB border) the francophone population is largely Acadian and mostly concentrated in NB.

Officially, it's just New Brunswick and Parliament/government institutions.

Under the heading "Official Languages of Canada", the section reads:
16. (1) English and French are the official languages of Canada and have the equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and government of Canada.
(2) English and French are the official languages of New Brunswick and have equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the legislature and government of New Brunswick.
(3) Nothing in this Charter limits the authority of Parliament or a legislature to advance the equality of status or use of English and French.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Sixteen_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms#Text

 

[Cynar]

Two very long terms that will likely cost a lot of jobs but at least we won't have to deal with Harper anymore

Stop making stuff up. We were hemorrhaging middle class jobs under Harper that will never return. The job gains he would always gloat about were temp jobs in the fall that are lost in the spring.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I thought ON was also officially bilingual?

The Outaouais region (I mean the Ontario portion of the region) is functionally bilingual, but the province isn't officially bilingual. Of course there are Franco-Ontariens as there are Franco-Terreneuviens.

 

[Walpurgis]

no Canadian province should ever refuse Quebec's Carte Soleil as proper ID.

It is the standard official photo ID card that any Quebec resident can get for free

A Driver's License is on a another level because you actually need to know how to drive to get one and you have to pay for it

So, La Carte Soleil should be considered as proper photo ID in other provinces

Wow, I never really gave this much thought since I have always had a driver's license. I'm actually surprised that this isn't in other provinces.

 

[Ondore]

I have a similar card in Nova Scotia and have never had an issue. Of course, it looks like a driver's license.

 

[killer rin]

I thought ON was also officially bilingual?

Also yeah from my small experience (went to college right next to the NS/NB border) the francophone population is largely Acadian and mostly concentrated in NB.

Ontario is a wierd case where instead of legislating that Ontario is Bilingual accross the board, our parliament decided that it would be more efficient to create and maintain "Bilingual Zones" which state that municipalies within the individual zones must be bilingual or not.

I pulled this image from Wikipedia, but Dark Blue mean that the entire zone is required to be bilingual, Light Blue means certain Municipalities within the area need to be BIlingual, and White means none need to be Bilingual

I have a similar card in Nova Scotia and have never had an issue. Of course, it looks like a driver's license.

BC is doing something really interesting in that they are merging all of their cards into a single card which is your Health Card, Drivers License and ID

 

[SRG01]

So, is it my imagination or is the National Post beginning to lean towards Trump for some reason? Top headline is a pro-Trump op-ed by Conrad Black, and a Rex Murphy op-ed with a weird, flawed and subtly pro-Trump-esque tone to it.

 

[gutter_trash]

So, is it my imagination or is the National Post beginning to lean towards Trump for some reason? Top headline is a pro-Trump op-ed by Conrad Black, and a Rex Murphy op-ed with a weird, flawed and subtly pro-Trump-esque tone to it.

Yikes, I just check their website, so sad that Canadian newspapers would praise Trump

Electoral Reform could help block any Conservative majority

 

[BigJonsson]

It's up to the discretion of the bar/store etc... if they want to take out of town ID, some may have a book to use to verify ID they usually don't see, some just won't take that risk

 

[NetMapel]

My fellow Canadians, we must raise a stink on this subject to our local MPs!

Canada plunging toward an elevator crisis? ‘We’re already there,’ expert says

TORONTO — Every day of the year, Canadians across the country are finding themselves trapped in faulty elevators, while countless more are suffering through inconvenience and isolation because of elevators that are out of service — and the problem is worsening, an investigation by The Canadian Press has found.

Last year, for example, firefighters in Ontario alone responded to 4,461 calls to extricate people from elevators — more than a dozen a day — and double the number from 2001.

Elevators often don't get cellphone receptions too so if you're stuck in one, you're gonna have a boring time till you get saved :O

 

[SRG01]

My fellow Canadians, we must raise a stink on this subject to our local MPs!

Canada plunging toward an elevator crisis? ‘We’re already there,’ expert says

Elevators often don't get cellphone receptions too so if you're stuck in one, you're gonna have a boring time till you get saved :O

Escalators are a huge issue too. I was listening to CBC Radio a while ago and the problem boils down to a lack of qualified maintenance personnel. Training and experience take years and not many people stay long enough.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

So you can finally order beer online in Ontario. Let's see some details:

Sousa said shipping to LCBO stores will be free, with a minimum order of $50, while home delivery will come through Canada Post for a fee of $12 per order plus tax.

Home delivery orders will arrive within two to three days; pick-up orders will be available in store within four to 12 days, according to the LCBO.

Oof. Maybe it'd be OK if you were getting a massive order but that probably means I'm never going to use this.

 

[Apathy]

Wow, I never really gave this much thought since I have always had a driver's license. I'm actually surprised that this isn't in other provinces.

Well in Ontario for ID you can get a drivers license or if you don't drive like myself, you can get a Ontario Photo ID Card for $35.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/04p03#BK45

Collection or use

(2) Despite subsection 49 (1), a person who is neither a health information custodian nor acting as an agent of a health information custodian shall not collect or use another person’s health number except,

(a) for purposes related to the provision of provincially funded health resources to that other person;

(b) for the purposes for which a health information custodian has disclosed the number to the person;

(c) if the person is the governing body of health care practitioners who provide provincially funded health resources and is collecting or using health numbers for purposes related to its duties or powers; or

(d) if the person is prescribed and is collecting or using the health number, as the case may be, for purposes related to health administration, health planning, health research or epidemiological studies. 2007, c. 10, Sched. H, s. 10.

Basically the OHIP card can be used as ID as long as the number is not recorded because it's against the law for someone not involved in the provision of healthcare to take down the number

However many companies have misconstrued or decided it to avoid any problems and decided to not accept it as proper ID.

Even when you go to the LCBO, http://www.agco.on.ca/en/whatwedo/legal_age_id.aspx

By law, no one can be required to produce the Ontario Health Card, nor can the health number be collected. You should not ask for the Ontario Health Card as identification, but if offered voluntarily you may accept it at your discretion.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

A few things about the BC Government's data release.

1. The data has been massaged to make the impact seem less than it is. It's "only" 5%, but if you look closer, individual areas of the region are much higher. It's 14% in Richmond for example.

2. The size of the number doesn't matter so much as the amounts of money involved and results of that inflow. It's "only" 5% and 5 is a small number so this must be no big deal right? Well that's still fundamentally a huge amount of external money flowing in. Importantly the government's limited amount amount of data showed the average investment amount by foreign purchasers was dramatically more than locals. The bottom line is that these "small" amount of buyers bidding up properties can have a dramatic disruptive impact on the entire market, just like how a splash in a pond creates waves that ripple outward. When someone sells their house at an inflated cost what do they do with that money? Well they go buy elsewhere a bit further out...

3. Foreign people isn't as relevant as foreign capital. This government study concerned non-Canadian investment, but the Canadian and Quebec governments have been selling Canadian citizenship to millionaires for years at this point. The issue isn't about foreign people it is the implications on the market of non-local capital inflows.

This article is a bit rambly but it's a very good round up of the situation IMO http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/07/20/opinion/race-carding-elephant-room

The study may not be perfect, but am I missing something here? What is the incentive to disguise where the money is coming from? Why are all the Chinese 'buying' a Canadian citizenship for the purpose of buying property as a Canadian citizen instead of as a foreigner. I don't think it makes a difference to the Canadian government, they're taxed the same.

I understand what you mean about the ripple effect, but saying that foreigners on average spend more than locals doesn't say much when the foreigners only account for 5% of purchases. It only tells us that they prefer to buy the more valuable properties - which makes sense when its an investment property. It doesn't tell us that most high-value properties are purchased by foreigners. Considering in the hottest market its only 14% foreign that still means locals are responsible for most of that ripple effect.

 

[matthewwhatever]

So guess which party was sanctioned by the Commissioner of Canada Elections for contravening the Elections Act during the last election?

Spoiler

The Greens, for spreading misleading polling data in Victoria

 

[killer rin]

So guess which party was sanctioned by the Commissioner of Canada Elections for contravening the Elections Act during the last election?

Spoiler

The Greens, for spreading misleading polling data in Victoria

Ouch, did not expect that

 

[SRG01]

So guess which party was sanctioned by the Commissioner of Canada Elections for contravening the Elections Act during the last election?

Spoiler

The Greens, for spreading misleading polling data in Victoria

I voted for them last election

 

[Sean C]

That's very surprising that there are no bilingual judges in NL at the moment. I thought NL had a relatively higher rate of bilingualism? Or is NL an exception compared to other Atlantic provinces?

There's a very large French-or-bilingual(-or-chiac) Acadian minority in New Brunswick, to the extent that NB is the only really bilingual province. NS and PEI have much smaller minorities of Acadians, and I'm not really sure what's up on the rock.

There was an historical French community on the aptly-named French Shore of Newfoundland (where France retained treaty fishing rights even after the British kicked them out of Canada in the 18th century), mostly along the Strait of Belle Isle, but that mostly doesn't exist anymore. The most recent census data pegged the French-language population at about 0.38%.

Newfoundland was the only one of the Atlantic provinces that the French never colonized, compared with Acadia, so it was always far less French than the others. But yeah, New Brunswick is the only Atlantic province with a truly large French presence. Per the most recent census, the percentages of French-language speakers are:

New Brunswick - 31.9%
Prince Edward Island - 4%
Nova Scotia - 3.4%
Newfoundland - 0.38%

 

[Tiktaalik]

The study may not be perfect, but am I missing something here? What is the incentive to disguise where the money is coming from? Why are all the Chinese 'buying' a Canadian citizenship for the purpose of buying property as a Canadian citizen instead of as a foreigner. I don't think it makes a difference to the Canadian government, they're taxed the same.

I understand what you mean about the ripple effect, but saying that foreigners on average spend more than locals doesn't say much when the foreigners only account for 5% of purchases. It only tells us that they prefer to buy the more valuable properties - which makes sense when its an investment property. It doesn't tell us that most high-value properties are purchased by foreigners. Considering in the hottest market its only 14% foreign that still means locals are responsible for most of that ripple effect.

The differences between a foreign investor and someone immigrating to Canada and buying property is just one of long term motivations. The former is simply making an investment but the latter likely is retiring or has some longer term plans to retire in Canada. This distinction isn't as important as the fact that in both cases foreign capital is being introduced into the local market based on incomes that exceed local Vancouver incomes. The result of this is the disruptive effect that we've seen, where the prices of real estate now well exceed that which local Vancouver incomes could possibly afford. The core problem here isn't that of nationality or immigration status of certain buyers, but rather about the impact of capital flowing into the region.

The government is continuing to release more data as they collect it and it's clear that the issue is even greater than people have expected.

http://www.news1130.com/2016/07/26/real-estate-transactions-metro-vancouver-foreign/

Of the transactions between June 10th and July 14th in Metro Vancouver, 9.7 per cent involved foreign nationals.

Vancouver is at 10.9 per cent, Richmond is at 18.2 per cent, and Burnaby is at 17.7 per cent.

The number jumped to 6.6 per cent province-wide.

In the longer, five-week time frame, $8.8 billion changed hands in the Metro Vancouver real estate market. Foreign purchasers accounted for nearly $900 million of that.

This doesn't factor in purchases from people who would have entered Canada via the Quebec Investor Immigrant Program, so the real impact of foreign capital is even greater than this.

On that last point it's now pretty clear why the government is suddenly implementing a 15% tax on foreign purchases. They want to make some money.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Regarding the new 15% foreign buyer tax: The BC Liberals have been denying the relevance of foreign investors and have tried to minimize the issue for years so this is a real sudden turnaround for anyone who has been following the Vancouver housing bubble. We're coming up to an election in 2017 so my bet is that their internal polling showed that people were really turning against them on the housing file and that spooked them into action.

 

[Kinitari]

Read a nice article on the star about Canada bleeding tech talent to the US and Trudeau trying to stem the hemorrhaging.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...rk-easing-canadas-brain-drain-paul-wells.html

Trudeau appeared in the conference agenda as “Special Guest” and spoke at lunch on Friday. But he also wanted to hear from his hosts because they share a goal: to encourage entrepreneurs and tech companies to stay in Canada in a bid to boost economic growth and enhance Canadians’ standard of living.

This was the second time in three weeks that Trudeau has showed up at a tech conference in an idyllic locale. At the beginning of July he was at Sun Valley in Idaho for an annual retreat where he met a succession of blue-chip CEOs: Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, Apple’s Tim Cook, GM’s Mary Barra, IBM’s Ginni Rometty.

Justin Trudeau’s goal here extends well beyond schmoozing. As he said in Davos in January (more billionaires! More scenery!), attracting foreign investment will be “a key priority” of his government. He does not want an increase on the scale of a rounding error. He wants a massive increase in the amount of investment coming into Canada. The country saw such a thing once before, after World War II, when Europe was levelled, America ravenous, and Canada’s national resources desperately needed by both. What would drive another investment boom now, I asked a Trudeau adviser — resources again?

“Talent.”

Working in the Toronto tech scene, and being obsessed with tech in general, this is always something that really stuck out to me.

Of the best dozen AI experts in the world, a quarter or more came from Canada. I think just one is still working here, the rest snatched up by giant us companies.

I work in web dev, and I'm constantly being offered a lot of money to move to Cali. The pipeline from Waterloo and UofT to silicon valley is significant.

Considering the shifting global economy, and the (finally) booming Toronto tech scene, we need to work on both retaining talent, and incubating startups - the latter something the Ontario government has made tremendous strides in improving. The value and opportunity is high.

I also think we need to really emphasis tech and software in school, as early as grade school, and from what I've heard from a few teachers I know, that's already starting to happen. I do my part by spending a lot of my free time teaching, and my goal is to get back to Scarborough with my company backing me, and make a concerted effort to create software devs young.

What are people's thoughts here? Any insight into different industries and their view on Canada's tech scene?

 

[maharg]

I work for an American tech giant's satellite office in Canada. I'd likely be taking easily a 50% pay cut to go back to working for local companies anywhere in the country. I'll almost certainly do that at some point, but it's a hard leap to make. I'd still probably be making more if I moved to the US.

Frankly, I don't think there's a lot that can be done about this. It's hard to imagine any useful concrete steps that could possibly be taken that would close that gap.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Even when there are opportunities (and really there are a lot of options, here in Ottawa and other tech hubs at least) a lot of tech companies aren't going to want to pay SF wages in Canadian cities. There's always going to be the wage difference, and that will continue to drive some outmigration.

I don't want to live in SF though because it's a) America, so guns guns guns even in California and B) that city and the area around it have a lot of social problems arising out of the housing crisis and a 20 year out of date public transit system.

You know what would make me even more likely to stay here? Just make Canada a better place to live.

Have better funded and more accessible transit. Plan better for cold (maybe Ottawa specific but why isn't every transit station here heated?) and snow (why do they plow snow onto sidewalks in the path of pedestrians?). A publicly run, affordable daycare system that I don't need to stress about. Safer streetscapes and good walk/bike routes, less unavoidable freeway-sized stroads.

Like most of these aren't even federal concerns, they're municipal or provincial, but just transferring more money from the feds to municipalities where it can be put to better use would do a lot to make nicer cities that people want to stay in. Just going the extra mile to make Canada a better place to live would do a lot to keep highly skilled people here.

 

[maharg]

There's only so much pay and opportunity disparity that that can make up for. I'm still in Canada For Reasons, but if it weren't for them I'd probably be in the US and my career would likely have moved in a much more interesting trajectory than it has. I've had to work much harder to get where I am than people who go to the valley have to get to a similar place. Yes, even with all the ugly things about their culture.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Fundamentally people are leaving because the cost of living in Canada (minus Montreal perhaps) has become totally uncompetitive with what is being offered in the USA.

The benchmark price for a Metro Vancouver detached house is $1.5 million and typical tech salaries won't get you anywhere close to being able to afford that.

Why suffer in Vancouver when you can walk across the border and be paid twice as much and easily be able to afford a house?

Making it dramatically cheaper to live and build a startup in Canada will result in the retention of a lot more smart people than any sort of elaborate "innovation strategy."

 

[SRG01]

Fundamentally people are leaving because the cost of living in Canada (minus Montreal perhaps) has become totally uncompetitive with what is being offered in the USA.

The benchmark price for a Metro Vancouver detached house is $1.5 million and typical tech salaries won't get you anywhere close to being able to afford that.

Why suffer in Vancouver when you can walk across the border and be paid twice as much and easily be able to afford a house?

Making it dramatically cheaper to live and build a startup in Canada will result in the retention of a lot more smart people than any sort of elaborate "innovation strategy."

This is very true. Most areas in the US are extremely affordable aside from the Silicon Valley/Palo Alto area. That's very attractive for urban professionals, whether it be lawyers, doctors, or engineers.

I suppose Canada makes up for it with our social programs, but many US companies offer generous health benefits and incentives.

 

[maharg]

This is very true. Most areas in the US are extremely affordable aside from the Silicon Valley/Palo Alto area. That's very attractive for urban professionals, whether it be lawyers, doctors, or engineers.

I suppose Canada makes up for it with our social programs, but many US companies offer generous health benefits and incentives.

Areas outside the bay in the US also struggle with low COL-adjusted salaries in software engineering [edit: originally said compared to the bay, but that's not really true]. This is not really unique to Canada. Everywhere but the Bay experiences a drain in tech. Other kinds of engineering are different, though.

It's nice to say "they just need to reduce COL!" but.. how? Popular urban areas by their nature have valuable land and there's only so much intervention that can be usefully done to reduce that.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Read a nice article on the star about Canada bleeding tech talent to the US and Trudeau trying to stem the hemorrhaging.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...rk-easing-canadas-brain-drain-paul-wells.html



Working in the Toronto tech scene, and being obsessed with tech in general, this is always something that really stuck out to me.

Of the best dozen AI experts in the world, a quarter or more came from Canada. I think just one is still working here, the rest snatched up by giant us companies.

I work in web dev, and I'm constantly being offered a lot of money to move to Cali. The pipeline from Waterloo and UofT to silicon valley is significant.

Considering the shifting global economy, and the (finally) booming Toronto tech scene, we need to work on both retaining talent, and incubating startups - the latter something the Ontario government has made tremendous strides in improving. The value and opportunity is high.

I also think we need to really emphasis tech and software in school, as early as grade school, and from what I've heard from a few teachers I know, that's already starting to happen. I do my part by spending a lot of my free time teaching, and my goal is to get back to Scarborough with my company backing me, and make a concerted effort to create software devs young.

What are people's thoughts here? Any insight into different industries and their view on Canada's tech scene?

From what I've seen Waterloo has somehow miraculously survived the vacuum created by RIM's demise - so I guess that talent is still out there presumably working in tech. I think Trudeau is definitely in the right direction, but we have to move past the 'tech' industry just being apps. The apps boom is over. I don't think schools have grasped that yet, I see way too many students at UW working on apps. No one is buying them. We need to identify emerging technologies and pursue those to draw business back into the country (i.e. EVs, Drones, Green Energy, AI/Navigation/Camera technology)

 

[Kinitari]

I think the migration is inevitable - because lets face it, there is a lot happening in Silicon Valley that isn't happening here, and the pay is through the roof. The temptation is strong, and even with a lot of work being done, I think it's going to still happen at a significant amount.

I think however, even reducing this by a fraction would be a boon for the country.

I think a lot of people underestimate or just don't realize how much the tech sector is a part of the economy in Canada -already- and how much it has grown.

If the number of tech jobs exceeded 15 per cent in an industry, more than three times the national average, it was considered a member of the tech sector.

It found 864,000 employees across Canada are high-tech workers, or 5.6 per cent of total employment in 2015.

The tech sector, which includes 71,000 firms, generated $117 billion of Canada’s total $1.65 trillion GDP last year. More than two-thirds of those firms are small operations with fewer than four employees.

The value and the strength of tech in the country is really high, it's a bit of a hidden unexpected gem and something that I think American companies realized a while ago.

If you can increase retention of high quality talent even by a few percent points, that's going to pay dividends. If you can increase the pool of tech workers/students in the country, that's going to invariably lead to more tech workers we have in the country, considering not only the current opportunity but the rising opportunity that it presents, I think it would be short sighted for the federal government to not consider more options here.

The SRED tax credit is a great example of something that I know from personal experience to be supporting and helping a LOT of startups and small businesses in Toronto comfortably expand and innovate. It's a simple example, but I wouldn't be surprised that it has a strong positive impact on the current tech scene and will continue to drive growth here.

I don't think the answer is just federal tax credits though. I think more investment from the government into particular sectors (which it sounds like will happen in tech, specifically around AI/Quantum/Big Data) could encourage, even just a little, the already burgeoning industries.

I also think a big part of this is an education focus. Maybe go so far as incentive for students to pursue tech related post secondary. Although I think a more fundamental and long term opportunity is a hybrid logic/math/programming courses in grade and highschool.

From what I've seen Waterloo has somehow miraculously survived the vacuum created by RIM's demise - so I guess that talent is still out there presumably working in tech. I think Trudeau is definitely in the right direction, but we have to move past the 'tech' industry just being apps. The apps boom is over. I don't think schools have grasped that yet, I see way too many students at UW working on apps. No one is buying them. We need to identify emerging technologies and pursue those to draw business back into the country (i.e. EVs, Drones, Green Energy, AI/Navigation/Camera technology)

I'd agree that any focus on app oriented approaches isn't going to be a long term benefit - the boom is over, but the economy and the opportunity is still there, so I wouldn't say 'forget it' yet. That being said, I do think that the focus needs to be on emerging tech opportunities, and I think that's what I am reading from Trudeau - AI/Quantum and Big Data. Although Big data is now 'old' in tech years (it was the buzz word of 2014, which is forever ago) - it's coming into it's own now being married to maturing AI technologies. The country already produces some of the best AI engineers in the world, so we need to embrace and continue to encourage that.

Quantum Computing is really interesting, as simultaneously we're seeing incremental breakthroughs throughout the western world, and a decent amount of those coming out of Canada. The opportunities are really high, and additionally, it marries -very- well with both big data and AI. You can see that in Google/Nasa's work with QuAIL - or see what Andy Rubin has to say about it, among other people - basically, the point is that it's smart to invest in all three of these sectors, as in the end you're more or less investing into one subcategory of tech.

 

[gutter_trash]

Toronto offers almost the same salaries or a little bit more than Montreal.
Despite the 9% lower Provincial Tax rate in Ontario, everything else in Toronto is proportionally more expensive than Montreal.

I looked and feel stuck because nowhere else in our country can I get a job and afford to live close to the city center than Montreal.

the brain drain is real, I would rather move to the US before ever moving to another big Canadian city due to the impossibility of living close to work in those other Canadian cities

 

[maharg]

My experience with SRED is it makes a bunch of extremely non-viable companies chase tax rebates into their grave. Most of the real beneficiaries are huge companies, mostly owned by or subsidiaries of American firms (or eventually destined to be). It doesn't seem to do much at all for salaries, since it can only have a small multiple effect and most Canadian startups can't afford to pay much to begin with.

Like, I really hate to be doom and gloom here, but I've been working in this field a long time, for American and Canadian companies big and small, inside and outside the bay, and the truth is quite simply: Most of our brightest talent will be lured to the valley right out of college, and there is genuinely not much we can do about it, because it's an external(/extranational) force that creates this pressure.