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[gutter_trash]

The fuck? I didn't realize western canada's crime rate was so much higher than eastern canada's. Saskatchewan's rate in the chart above is pushing triple Ontario's.

I'm not color blind but why did they pick so many different shades of blue and jumble them at the bottom?

Western Canada, why so angry?
----------------------------

in other news,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/elizabeth-may-ponders-future-green-party-support-bds-1.3713262

Elizabeth May ponders future after Green Party's support for Israeli boycott policy

so if May quits the Greens and sits as an indy, that would mean the Liberal Party may soon be the only party with an actual leader since the CPC, NDP, GRN and BQ don't have currently a leader

 

[exYle]

The fuck? I didn't realize western canada's crime rate was so much higher than eastern canada's. Saskatchewan's rate in the chart above is pushing triple Ontario's.

Possibly due to the Native population and their crime statistics? Regina was recently called the most racist city in Canada, can't be unrelated.

 

[Sean C]

The fuck? I didn't realize western canada's crime rate was so much higher than eastern canada's. Saskatchewan's rate in the chart above is pushing triple Ontario's.

We export our rowdier denizens westward.

Though Saint John remains the sexual assault capital of Canada.

 

[maharg]

We export our rowdier denizens westward.

This is definitely a part of it. Because of migration, western canada is by far the youngest (in terms of median age) part of Canada: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-215-x/2012000/t583-eng.htm

And a lot of those young people live in what are essentially modern frontier towns (including company-run camps) where there isn't much to do, so there's a lot of drinking and drug use.

Frankly, though, a one year shift back upward in a decades-long downturn in crime rates is not really all that meaningful of an event (and is basically sensationalist reporting). The general trend of it being higher in western canada is a durable trend, though.

 

[killer rin]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/elizabeth-may-ponders-future-green-party-support-bds-1.3713262

so if May quits the Greens and sits as an indy, that would mean the Liberal Party may soon be the only party with an actual leader since the CPC, NDP, GRN and BQ don't have currently a leader

Even if May steps down as the Green Parties leader, I doubt she would leave the Green Party entierly because that would throw all of her work out the window of slowly increasing the parties share of the vote every election.

Not to mention that the Green party holds weight within her riding having gathered more than double the votes of the nearest competitor, so if se decides to run again it would be an almost guarenteed win unless something changes majorly; which despite a change in title from stepping down as leader, it's not exactly a public facing change.

 

[Vibranium]

in other news,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/elizabeth-may-ponders-future-green-party-support-bds-1.3713262



so if May quits the Greens and sits as an indy, that would mean the Liberal Party may soon be the only party with an actual leader since the CPC, NDP, GRN and BQ don't have currently a leader

I am totally in support of Palestine, but yeah, that Green anti-Israel policy is totally wrong. You need to work with both sides (And also hopelessly wish the country goes less right-wing). It's diplomacy 101 and apparently the geniuses who voted for this don't realize what it would do. So May has my support and I hope the party backs down from this.

 

[Blackhead]

I am totally in support of Palestine, but yeah, that Green anti-Israel policy is totally wrong. You need to work with both sides (And also hopelessly wish the country goes less right-wing). It's diplomacy 101 and apparently the geniuses who voted for this don't realize what it would do. So May has my support and I hope the party backs down from this.

Sanctions (Economic) (what the boycott/divestment movement is really) are a regular tool in Western diplomacy.

 

[Vibranium]

Sanctions (Economic) (what the boycott/divestment movement is really) are a regular tool in Western diplomacy.

Right. I don't think it's going to accomplish much though. It hurts the Greens more than it helps them.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Even if May steps down as the Green Parties leader, I doubt she would leave the Green Party entierly because that would throw all of her work out the window of slowly increasing the parties share of the vote every election.

Not to mention that the Green party holds weight within her riding having gathered more than double the votes of the nearest competitor, so if se decides to run again it would be an almost guarenteed win unless something changes majorly; which despite a change in title from stepping down as leader, it's not exactly a public facing change.

She's got an obvious out and a future in cabinet if she bails to join the Liberals, and I find it highly unlikely voters in her district would punish her for it provided her voice is still active on environmental issues.

 

[Silent Chief]

Right. I don't think it's going to accomplish much though. It hurts the Greens more than it helps them.

Obviously, but it's not like the Greens are raising lots of money from the Israeli lobby.

In principle, I don't have a problem with that boycott. How many goods can I buy from the occupied territories anyway? However, the US has laws against Israeli boycotts and we're not as sovereign as we sometime think we are.

http://http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/antiboy.html

The antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to all "U.S. persons," defined to include individuals and companies located in the United States and their foreign affiliates.

 

[Stumpokapow]

In principle, I don't have a problem with that boycott. How many goods can I buy from the occupied territories anyway?

Famously, SodaStream.

 

[maharg]

I am totally in support of Palestine, but yeah, that Green anti-Israel policy is totally wrong. You need to work with both sides (And also hopelessly wish the country goes less right-wing). It's diplomacy 101 and apparently the geniuses who voted for this don't realize what it would do. So May has my support and I hope the party backs down from this.

Right. I don't think it's going to accomplish much though. It hurts the Greens more than it helps them.

I'm confused. Is boycotting bad and wrong or good but hopeless? These aren't really equivalent things, even if they share a similar outlook.

I don't vote green (they're a bit wonky on nearly everything but environmental stuff for me), but it's a deep shame that our legislature is so lopsided on this issue. I don't think we need fewer voices on that side.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Western Canada, why so angry?

It's probably not a coincidence that the spike in crime coincides with the economic downturn.

She's got an obvious out and a future in cabinet if she bails to join the Liberals, and I find it highly unlikely voters in her district would punish her for it provided her voice is still active on environmental issues.

Is it still that obvious? I think under Dion it would've been a foregone conclusion, but I don't know if there's as much of an in for her anymore.

In any case, I doubt she's going anywhere. They *need* her, desperately. If she leaves, she takes their only seat in the House -- and, more relevantly, they lose their representation on the electoral reform committee, which is their only real shot at getting beyond their single seat. She's also responsible for a major chunk of their fundraising, and without that money they'd basically have to fold up shop. If the Greens don't have a change of heart to keep her around, I'd be shocked.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Is it still that obvious? I think under Dion it would've been a foregone conclusion, but I don't know if there's as much of an in for her anymore.

While Trudeau hasn't done the Dion "We literally won't contest Elizabeth May's seat! Yay friends!" thing, he has included her in the climate delegation, the electoral reform committee, and otherwise seemed to value her presence in a real way; and given that she has probably the strongest environmental credibility of anyone in Canada except maybe David Suzuki (who really should be a senator by now, tbqh), I suspect Trudeau would want to harness that more directly if he could. I don't know that he'd displace his Minister of Environment at the drop of a hat, but I think room would be made for May.

 

[maharg]

I think May is more valuable to Trudeau as an extra-party friend than she could ever be as a caucus member. And she would be a pain in the ass as a caucus member too. Doubt she'd stay long.

 

[gutter_trash]

May and Trudeau are on opposite ends on the TPP.

 

[diaspora]

Both the Liberals and IMO the house are better with May in the Greens than with the LPC.

 

[gutter_trash]

Both the Liberals and IMO the house are better with May in the Greens than with the LPC.

I agree, May helps split the NDP vote.

 

[matthewwhatever]

While Trudeau hasn't done the Dion "We literally won't contest Elizabeth May's seat! Yay friends!" thing, he has included her in the climate delegation, the electoral reform committee, and otherwise seemed to value her presence in a real way; and given that she has probably the strongest environmental credibility of anyone in Canada except maybe David Suzuki (who really should be a senator by now, tbqh), I suspect Trudeau would want to harness that more directly if he could. I don't know that he'd displace his Minister of Environment at the drop of a hat, but I think room would be made for May.

1) David Suzuki is too old to be a senator (and good thing too, since he long ago crossed the line into cranky old man territory).

2) I think you're reading too much into May being included in the electoral reform committee and the climate delegation. The committee composition was suggested by Nathan Cullen, and Trudeau invited members of all parties, along with all the premiers, to Paris. She was going anyway, so it was probably easier to have her there as an official delegate than to have her there on her own, talking about how the government wasn't taking things seriously enough.

I think maharg and diaspora are correct:

I think May is more valuable to Trudeau as an extra-party friend than she could ever be as a caucus member. And she would be a pain in the ass as a caucus member too. Doubt she'd stay long.

Both the Liberals and IMO the house are better with May in the Greens than with the LPC.

May isn't nearly disciplined enough to be in cabinet, and she'd be a lot more trouble than she's worth. Even having her in caucus would be risky. Can you imagine the reaction if a Liberal MP got on stage at the Parliamentary Press Gallery dinner completely plastered? It works for her now because she's leading a party of 1 that's considered to be on the fringe. I doubt people would've reacted the same way if she were representing the government.

Besides, she's a pretty great opposition MP. I think Parliament would be worse off if she was sitting on the government side.

 

[Hycran]

Elizabeth May has accomplished absolutely nothing in her entire career in politics. She has no credibility outside of Vancouver Island and her presence anywhere, whether as an independent or as leader of the Green Party, is irrelevant. As was already pointed out, her presence in Paris was more of a show of JT'a magnanimity than it was actual respect for her international profile, or lack thereof.

The fact that people even slightly care about where she might end up baffles me.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I had genuinely assumed Suzuki was in his mid-60s. Whoops.

On May; I don't think it's particularly likely she'd come over, but I do think it's an option she has.

I expect she'd exhibit good discipline if she needed to, like how people who cross the floor typically become very good members of their new party. In terms of whether I'm reading in too much to her inclusion in things, perhaps I am, just generally I feel like--and yes, some of this stuff was under Dion--Liberal leaders have extended to her more camraderie, respect, and deference than I would typically think her party merits. Maybe that's just based on her personal popularity and optics, but I think some of it is based on an actual understanding of a positive relationship to be fostered between them.

I think of her as something more like an Independent affiliated with the Liberal Party than as someone in a separate party. Nothing about her behaviour suggests to me she's trying to build a caucus versus simply using her own place as a megaphone for the party's issues, and on those issues she agrees with both the NDP and Liberals and they also agree with her on the centrality of those issues, so I don't think it's as important for her to preserve the party.

I don't think we're really disagreeing on anything factual, just having different intuitions about what would be possible.

 

[SRG01]

Elizabeth May as a senator would be infinitely more influential towards Canadian policymaking than being an MP... I would be fine with that.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Wait! I've got it!

Elizabeth May is a bilingual lawyer who, at times, has called Atlantic Canada her home.

Some Atlantic Canadians are up in arms about the lack of Atlantic Canadian representation on the Supreme Court, which in part is caused by the lack of bilingual representation from that part of the country.

So...problem solved?

(No idea if May is still a member of the bar, though it'd be interesting -- to say the least-- to see someone like her on the SCC.)

 

[gutter_trash]

Elizabeth May as a senator would be infinitely more influential towards Canadian policymaking than being an MP... I would be fine with that.

 

[maharg]

Elizabeth May has accomplished absolutely nothing in her entire career in politics. She has no credibility outside of Vancouver Island and her presence anywhere, whether as an independent or as leader of the Green Party, is irrelevant. As was already pointed out, her presence in Paris was more of a show of JT'a magnanimity than it was actual respect for her international profile, or lack thereof.

The fact that people even slightly care about where she might end up baffles me.

Oh come on. Taking a party from no seats to one seat in the system we have is huge. Like, the last parties it happened to in a real sense were (I think) Social Credit and the CCF/NDP. Reform and Bloc don't count as they were offshoots of the collapsing PC party, so were cannibalising existing party apparatus.

I think she's probably not what they need to capitalize on that seat long term (but who else, who the hell knows), but saying she's accomplished nothing is ridiculous.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Sad news: Mauril Belanger has died. Really sad how fast ALS killed him, but at least he got his O Canada bill through before it happened.

 

[Stumpokapow]

He was my MP. Seemed like a good guy and responsive to concerns in the riding.

 

[Sean C]

RIP Mauril.

Unrelatedly, Rocco Galati is saying that if the government doesn't nominate an Atlantic Canadian to the upcoming Cromwell vacancy, he'll look into legal action. The statute doesn't actually formalize the appointments apportionment outside of Quebec's guaranteed three, but there's considerable speculation that the other regions' allotments would be considered part of the unwritten constitution.

I suspect this will ultimately be speculation for nothing, and Campbell and co. will prepare a list that is mostly or exclusively Atlantic Canadian (and as well, that the government will ultimately go that way), but I think this a needless controversy on the government's part.

It is too bad that between Atlantic Canada's demographics and the previous government's appointments choices there aren't any indigenous or other racial minority judges to really consider, but that's not grounds to do away with a part of the unwritten constitution that goes back to 1875.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Worst campaign launch ever?

Saskatchewan MP Brad Trost is the sixth Tory to announce his intention to seek the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.

The social conservative MP launched his website Tuesday billing himself as "a 100 per cent conservative" touting his opposition to abortion and gay marriage.
...

Trost, who is currently on a family vacation in Mongolia, will be returning to Canada after Labour Day, when he will hold a press conference and unveil some of the key policy planks of his bid to lead the Tories into the next election.

Who launches their leadership bid while they're not even in the country? I can't decide if that's inept or arrogant. Regardless, I imagine he'd be a Stockwell Day-level disaster. Fighting a campaign on social issues in 2019 doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

Though their whole party is in trouble right now, regardless of who's leader. Here's the latest Nanos poll on vote intentions:

The CPC ceiling has never been *that* high (even under Harper, it only barely reached 45%, which meant that), but they have a serious problem if 65% of the country wouldn't even consider them. Obviously, that could change with a new leader, but I have a hard time seeing any of their candidates inspiring people to be open-minded about voting Conservative.

 

[Apathy]

Worst campaign launch ever?



Who launches their leadership bid while they're not even in the country? I can't decide if that's inept or arrogant. Regardless, I imagine he'd be a Stockwell Day-level disaster. Fighting a campaign on social issues in 2019 doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

Though their whole party is in trouble right now, regardless of who's leader. Here's the latest Nanos poll on vote intentions:



The CPC ceiling has never been *that* high (even under Harper, it only barely reached 45%, which meant that), but they have a serious problem if 65% of the country wouldn't even consider them. Obviously, that could change with a new leader, but I have a hard time seeing any of their candidates inspiring people to be open-minded about voting Conservative.

How can you oppose abortion and gay marriage at this point in time. This isn't the US, we won't stand for that shit and I would imagine even a good chunk of conservatives don't care. Who are you targeting except the super bigoted super religious. Saying you're anti those things you might as well throw in that you support segregation cause those people that would care about anti abortion and anti gay marriage would support segregation as well.

 

[Sean C]

How can you oppose abortion and gay marriage at this point in time. This isn't the US, we won't stand for that shit and I would imagine even a good chunk of conservatives don't care. Who are you targeting except the super bigoted super religious. Saying you're anti those things you might as well throw in that you support segregation cause those people that would care about anti abortion and anti gay marriage would support segregation as well.

There's room in the race for a social conservative candidate targeting the Tory base in the rural west, which doesn't really have a candidate at this point.

Whether you can translate that into anything bigger, perhaps dubious. But it's profile-raising.

 

[gabbo]

How can you oppose abortion and gay marriage at this point in time. This isn't the US, we won't stand for that shit and I would imagine even a good chunk of conservatives don't care. Who are you targeting except the super bigoted super religious. Saying you're anti those things you might as well throw in that you support segregation cause those people that would care about anti abortion and anti gay marriage would support segregation as well.

Bernier is going hard on the crazy pants econ angle. This Trost has to look to stand out somehow. Playing the bigot card will certainly do that

 

[matthewwhatever]

This is weird. The Liberals just replaced Dominic Leblanc as House Leader with Bardish Chagger. Leblanc was clearly pretty bad at the job, but I'm surprised they'd replace him with someone so inexperienced. Hopefully she's secretly a parliamentary pro, and she'll excel at pushing business through the House faster, because if she's not this could go bad for them really quickly.

 

[Sean C]

This is weird. The Liberals just replaced Dominic Leblanc as House Leader with Bardish Chagger. Leblanc was clearly pretty bad at the job, but I'm surprised they'd replace him with someone so inexperienced. Hopefully she's secretly a parliamentary pro, and she'll excel at pushing business through the House faster, because if she's not this could go bad for them really quickly.

Chagger was a longtime MP's aide to the previous Liberal to represent Waterloo, and has a background as an organizer.

If LeBlanc is being shifted over to Fisheries permanently because of Tootoo's departure, I guess there's not going to be a new minister called up from the Territories.

 

[killer rin]

And as some of us assumed, Elizabeth May to stay on as Green leader

 

[Sapiens]

The green party will need her on their crusade to ban wifi

 

[Zombie James]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/harper-quits-seat-1.3736732

So long, asshole.

 

[killer rin]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/harper-quits-seat-1.3736732

So long, asshole.

He did a couple things right, but overall he was terrible for the country. Good riddance.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

He did a couple things right, but overall he was terrible for the country. Good riddance.

He got rid of the penny. I think we can all thank him for that.

 

[Cake Boss]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/harper-quits-seat-1.3736732

So long, asshole.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Not counting PMs like Clark, Campbell, Turner, etc., who weren't in long enough to judge (and Justin Trudeau, for that matter), Harper has to rank at or near the bottom of any rankings, right? His competition, basically, is:

Macdonald
Mackenzie
Laurier
Borden
Mackenzie King
Bennett
St. Laurent
Diefenbaker
Pearson
Pierre Trudeau
Mulroney
Chretien
Maybe Meighen and Martin, depending on whether you want to count their shorter terms (I could go either way, though let's say Martin counts, since his party was actually elected)

Macdonald, Laurier, Borden, Mackenzie King, St. Laurent, Pearson, Trudeau, Mulroney, and Chretien were all unquestionably better.
Mackenzie signed our first free trade deal with the US, and introduced the secret ballot in our elections, so I'd put him above Harper -- who arguably harmed our relationship with the US, and wasn't so great for electoral democracy -- for those reasons alone.
Bennett was probably worse, though I think he was unquestionably a better person, plus he was done in by circumstances well beyond his control.
Diefenbaker was kind of a kook, but he also did a few good things (the first Bill of Rights, the first female and ethnic cabinet ministers, full suffrage for all Canadians), so I'd put him above Harper.
Martin was indecisive enough to not cause any major problems, but he also put ambition above country and, in the process, paved the way for Harper, so I think that knocks him down near the bottom of any ranking.

So...he's what, 12th out of 14, at best? May he fade into history and never be heard from again.

 

[Simon Belmont]

It's an interesting fill in the blank: Stephen Harper will be remembered for _______

 

[Alavard]

It's an interesting fill in the blank: Stephen Harper will be remembered for _______

Mine is: ...guest starring on Murdoch Mysteries.

 

[gutter_trash]

It's an interesting fill in the blank: Stephen Harper will be remembered for _______

Objectively: Uniting the Right

That is all.

There are transformative leaders and there are forgettable leaders

Harper will be remembered as forgettable. He accomplished nothing transformative.

 

[maharg]

He did more than unite the right, he basically made the real right wing a credible force in federal canadian politics. He dragged the Overton Window quite a bit to the right, to the point where most Canadians happily accept Chretien/Martin-style centrism (so-called "fiscal conservative, social liberal") as something on the left wing of our politics.

Trudeau breaks it back the other way a bit, but that seems to be largely through force of personality. You only have to look at provincial politics nearly everywhere in the country to see that the window's still to the right of where it was.

 

[matthewwhatever]

It's an interesting fill in the blank: Stephen Harper will be remembered for _______

Vests, both leather and sweater.

More serious answer: like I said, being one of the worst PMs ever. Talking up his fiscal management, while running up the biggest deficits in history. Sabre-rattling and talking tough, while doing absolutely nothing to help the military. Wasting tens of millions of dollars on a useless census. Trying to subvert democracy, both in the Senate (see the Mike Duffy trial and the judge's findings) and the House (encapsulated by Del Mastro going to jail). Spending lots of time and money trying to woo ethnic voters, then blowing it all with the most overtly racist federal election campaign we've had in decades. Generally being wrong about everything.

 

[gutter_trash]

That is ideological partisanship.

Transformative Prime Ministers are remembered for enacting significant changes that have long term endearment or effect

Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Repatriation of the Constitution.
NAFTA
Canada Health Act.
Railways.
Confederation.
Social Insurance

Harper was pure partisan and just an oil shill.
He will be fortten as the "do nothing" PM

 

[Entropia]

It's an interesting fill in the blank: Stephen Harper will be remembered for _______

that weird creepy cat photo.

 

[Heshinsi]

It's an interesting fill in the blank: Stephen Harper will be remembered for _______

Being the robot PM
Old Stock Canadians
Mr. Secret
Mr. I run a Tight Ship
Mr. I don't know what my underlings get up to on their free time
From surpluses to deficits; started from the top now we're here
PM Scandalous
Tougher than Teflon
The Harper Government
Actually remembering the powers the GG has, and using that to shut down parliament
Giving Canada a creationist Minister of Science
Not having time for Indigenous Canadians
Removing most of our lakes, rivers, and waterways from protected status
Somehow winning the leadership race over Peter McKay
Taking credit for steering Canada through tough economic times, when in fact he argued against the laws and legislations that the previous government put in place that helped us
Not knowing how to wear a properly tailored suit (my biggest problem with him)
Continuously frightening kittens

 

[maharg]

Transformative Prime Ministers are remembered for enacting significant changes that have long term endearment.

So a politician is only "transformative" if their impact is widely seen as positive?

There are a lot of people in this country who do consider him and what he's done positive, whether you or I do or not, at any rate. [edit to add, before someone who's never seen one of my posts before suggests otherwise: I do not]

Here's what conservatives think he's done worth noting, for what that's worth: https://href.li/?https://ktvharris.com/2015/05/21/stephen-harpers-accomplishments/

A lot of that is bullshit, of course.