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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia

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T

TheRagnCajun

Member
Yeah from what I understand the finance industry makes enormous SRED claims based on cyber security upgrades and doesn't necessarily fit with the spirit of spurring innovation in the country.

It may be American firms ultimately getting the rebate, but that claim has to be based on real tangible costs inside Canada. So SRED encourages big companies to do their R&D inside Canada rather than elsewhere.
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
maharg said:
My experience with SRED is it makes a bunch of extremely non-viable companies chase tax rebates into their grave. Most of the real beneficiaries are huge companies, mostly owned by or subsidiaries of American firms (or eventually destined to be). It doesn't seem to do much at all for salaries, since it can only have a small multiple effect and most Canadian startups can't afford to pay much to begin with.

Like, I really hate to be doom and gloom here, but I've been working in this field a long time, for American and Canadian companies big and small, inside and outside the bay, and the truth is quite simply: Most of our brightest talent will be lured to the valley right out of college, and there is genuinely not much we can do about it, because it's an external(/extranational) force that creates this pressure.
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I guess I'd probably need to look more into the effects on the economy SRED has had, but in my current company, it has really helped us grow - we're at over 100 employees and growing, and when I started 3 years ago almost it was just 1 employee - my boss. I've seen how much it has impacted our growth and given us breathing room. I also know in the last few years it's been a bit more of a challenge to fudge SRED docs, and I think they've put a cap on foreign owned canadian companies and how much they can claim.

Obviously not perfect, but I think if you walked down Spadina, and asked all the dev shops how much SRED helped them grow, you would hear quite a few "a lot"'s.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
"R&D" is a very generous term for what is usually claimed under SRED. No one's building a self-driving car in Canada. They're "investigating" mongodb for their "system to serve unique documents to users".

Kinitari said:
I guess I'd probably need to look more into the effects on the economy SRED has had, but in my current company, it has really helped us grow - we're at over 100 employees and growing, and when I started 3 years ago almost it was just 1 employee - my boss. I've seen how much it has impacted our growth and given us breathing room. I also know in the last few years it's been a bit more of a challenge to fudge SRED docs, and I think they've put a cap on foreign owned canadian companies and how much they can claim.
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I'm definitely not saying that it never helps a truly viable company succeed. The only way that would be true is if there were no viable companies at all, since literally every tech company in Canada claims SRED. I once heard a story about a restaurant claiming SRED for their chef, but I wouldn't say SRED is saving viable restaurants.

Obviously not perfect, but I think if you walked down Spadina, and asked all the dev shops how much SRED helped them grow, you would hear quite a few "a lot"'s.
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I'm sure you would, but that wouldn't really contradict what I'm saying. That they exist and that they've grown does not mean that that growth is justified or even terribly useful economic activity.

Working for a company that's surviving only because of SRED is a sad, draining experience.
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
maharg said:
"R&D" is a very generous term for what is usually claimed under SRED. No one's building a self-driving car in Canada. They're "investigating" mongodb for their "system to serve unique documents to users".



I'm definitely not saying that it never helps a truly viable company succeed. The only way that would be true is if there were no viable companies at all, since literally every tech company in Canada claims SRED. I once heard a story about a restaurant claiming SRED for their chef, but I wouldn't say SRED is saving viable restaurants.



I'm sure you would, but that wouldn't really contradict what I'm saying. That they exist and that they've grown does not mean that that growth is justified or even terribly useful economic activity.

Working for a company that's surviving only because of SRED is a sad, draining experience.
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Well you've at least given me some food for thought, and a lot of incentive to read about SR&ED in Canada, and other government tech incentives (I have like 10 tabs open).

I'll also mostly defer to your experience here, I've been in one startup (although I don't know if you can still call us a startup) for < 3 years, so I don't feel comfortable challenging you on this here. Instead I'll ask - do you think that any sort of federal plan is going to help strengthen our tech sector? Let's not get bogged down in specific things like talent retention - what do you think the government can do to strengthen the tech industry?

Reading material on some of the things the Feds have in their budget - going through it myself now.


Side note - investigating mongodb for SRED... that's like only in the top 20 ridiculous SRED claims I've seen. That being said, I think of SRED as more of a general purpose government tech grant that you have to jump through hoops for, and I think that's what it's effectively become.

TheRagnCajun said:
Yeah from what I understand the finance industry makes enormous SRED claims based on cyber security upgrades and doesn't necessarily fit with the spirit of spurring innovation in the country.

It may be American firms ultimately getting the rebate, but that claim has to be based on real tangible costs inside Canada. So SRED encourages big companies to do their R&D inside Canada rather than elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I need to read more about the impact SRED has on foreign owned companies, and see if what I've heard about it being more difficult for them to take advantage of it is legit.
 
S

simplayer

Member
SheepyGuy said:
I don't want to live in SF though because it's a) America, so guns guns guns even in California and B) that city and the area around it have a lot of social problems arising out of the housing crisis and a 20 year out of date public transit system.
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A - Not really. California isn't especially gun crazy, Santa Clara Valley even less so.

B - Quite true though. If you move out here though, you're probably not going to live in San Francisco, so housing related issues are less of an issue, but you won't have a big city transit system.
 
P

Pedrito

Member
Who needs a tech industry when we have good ol' canadian ethical oil (tm)?

13645256_10207190323133449_6615534611788171087_n.jpg
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M

maharg

idspispopd
Kinitari said:
what do you think the government can do to strengthen the tech industry?
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know. If I did I'd probably be trying to make it happen. :)

But specifically on SRED, I think it has two key fundamental problems:
- The tax credit is too high. Companies bend over backwards to get it because of this, and it means wasting developer time and money on lawyers for companies that might otherwise leave it on the table because they're already viable and successful. For successful companies it distorts their motives towards getting free government money. For failing companies it ties up talent and resources in long drawn out death spirals.
- It hits an absolutely ridiculous sour spot in strictness. It's so strict it drives a lot of useless activity to justify getting it, but it's loose enough that everyone can try.

One or both of these things changing could make it a better program, but as is it's just kind of silly and I don't think it has the desired outcomes.

Like, it's a program really designed for stuff like biotech (which it gets used to good ends for), where it can drive potentially millions of dollars of productive but difficult to fund research, but the lack of any kind of bottom-line threshold turns it into a money grab. It's kind of ridiculous when you consider that a small business in Canada might actually spend more on SRED lawyers than they do on any other legal/administration fees in a given year.
 
A

Azih

Member
The problem in the really exciting tech space is that either you're a buyer or getting bought and no one in the world can compete with Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Microsoft in the computing space for that and we don't have the scale to support a company that can make a random big play like Verizon or Softbank. Pretty sure the same is true for other fields like biotech etc.

Look at our one time champions. Nortel imploded. Matrox and Corel faded. RIM is in the process of fading. ATI got bought. None of this is unique to Canada. Israeli companies get gobbled up monthly. Nokia retreated. ARM got bought up by Softbank.

Don't know what we can do other than keeping funding startups that, if successful, will almost certainly get bought out so the founders can retire early and in the best case become serial entrepreneurs that take some of the burden off the government in trying to incubate the home grown tech scene.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Any lawyers here want to apply to be on the Supreme Court?

First, we have opened the application process so that any Canadian lawyer or judge who fits the criteria can apply through the Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial Affairs.
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Second, we have committed to an unprecedented level of transparency. The members of the advisory board, the assessment criteria, the questionnaire that all applicants must answer and certain answers provided to the questionnaire by the Prime Minister’s eventual nominee, will all be made public to Canadians.

Finally, members of Parliament will have the opportunity to actively participate in the appointment process and directly engage with the nominee – before she or he is appointed to the Supreme Court.
Click to expand...

I vaguely remember them trying to introduce MPs questioning nominees before, but I don't think it ever actually happened.
 
M

mdubs

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
Any lawyers here want to apply to be on the Supreme Court?





I vaguely remember them trying to introduce MPs questioning nominees before, but I don't think it ever actually happened.
Click to expand...

It happened for Justice Rothstein, but rightly was very limited in terms of the types of questions (is no what is your stance on abortion type questions) and was phased out after a few sudden retirements required multiple appointments. Imo most MPs know so little constitutional law that the exercise is pointless, better to leave it to a specialized committee as they seem to be doing now.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
mdubs said:
It happened for Justice Rothstein, but rightly was very limited in terms of the types of questions (is no what is your stance on abortion type questions) and was phased out after a few sudden retirements required multiple appointments. Imo most MPs know so little constitutional law that the exercise is pointless, better to leave it to a specialized committee as they seem to be doing now.
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As long as they don't vote on it I don't mind. The process in the US, with confirmation hearings, is a pretty big red flag as to how badly that can go.

As for the application process, they still have to be a sitting justice on a superior court, or have been on the bar for 10 years, right?
 
S

Sean C

Member
maharg said:
As for the application process, they still have to be a sitting justice on a superior court, or have been on the bar for 10 years, right?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's part of the Supreme Court Act (now unchangeable without constitutional amendment).

Unrelatedly, Cheri DiNovo just announced that she's had two small strokes recently, and thus won't be seeking the federal NDP leadership.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
maharg said:
As long as they don't vote on it I don't mind. The process in the US, with confirmation hearings, is a pretty big red flag as to how badly that can go.

As for the application process, they still have to be a sitting justice on a superior court, or have been on the bar for 10 years, right?
Click to expand...

It says that they need to be eligible under the Supreme Court Act (as well as meet the requirements laid out by a Statement of Qualifications and Assessment Criteria). Looking at S.5:

Who may be appointed judges

5 Any person may be appointed a judge who is or has been a judge of a superior court of a province or a barrister or advocate of at least ten years standing at the bar of a province.

5.1 For greater certainty, for the purpose of section 5, a person may be appointed a judge if, at any time, they were a barrister or advocate of at least 10 years standing at the bar of a province.
Click to expand...

So...yes. And today's statement reiterated that SCC Justices have to be functionally bilingual, and that they'll change the make-up of the advisory board if need be to adapt for Quebec's unique circumstances.

And agreed on the confirmation hearings. I've seen a few complaints that the new system doesn't take away the PM's prerogative to name whoever (s)he wants, but considering how that's evolved in the US, that has to be a good thing.

Sean C said:
Unrelatedly, Cheri DiNovo just announced that she's had two small strokes recently, and thus won't be seeking the federal NDP leadership.
Click to expand...

So now their leadership race is back down to zero candidates. I know there's still 13+ months until they vote, but right now it doesn't even seem like anyone is even making noises about throwing their hat in the ring.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the spectrum, the first CPC leadership fundraising numbers are out. Leitch, surprisingly, has raised more money than both Chong and Bernier put together.
 
S

SRG01

Member
matthewwhatever said:
So now their leadership race is back down to zero candidates. I know there's still 13+ months until they vote, but right now it doesn't even seem like anyone is even making noises about throwing their hat in the ring.
Click to expand...

It's because the party is a poisoned well of policies right now. For one, the Leap Manifesto -- or even seriously considering it -- single-handedly removed their federal competitiveness. And that's not taking into account regional disparities and the very real ideological chasms within the NDP.

It's saying something when the Alberta NDP has more vigor than their federal counterparts.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
So ontario got a northern separatist party claiming lack of transit among other things lol

I kind of want it to happen just to witness the freak out when all that excess tax money from the GTA stays in the GTA and they find out... they don't spend enough in taxes to justify what they want lol
 
K

killer rin

Member
DopeyFish said:
So ontario got a northern separatist party claiming lack of transit among other things lol

I kind of want it to happen just to witness the freak out when all that excess tax money from the GTA stays in the GTA and they find out... they don't spend enough in taxes to justify what they want lol
Click to expand...

I always find it hilarious when rural people complain about the majority of our tax money going to the Golden Horseshoe... I mean the region makes up 64% of the Population and being the economic powerhouse of the province generates way more tax revenue than the rest of Ontario
 
S

sikkinixx

Member
SheepyGuy said:
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/...tally-photo-bombs-b-c-beach-wedding-1.3710479

2nd story I've seen this week of topless Trudeau wandering around having photos taken of him. This time on the other side of the country!

First one: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...au-leaves-international-media-breathless.html
Click to expand...

I quite like Trudeau but holy fuck our media loves to talk about his days off a lot. Let the dude have a few days with his family without "OMG TRUDEAU IS SURFING!"
 
K

killer rin

Member
sikkinixx said:
I quite like Trudeau but holy fuck our media loves to talk about his days off a lot. Let the dude have a few days with his family without "OMG TRUDEAU IS SURFING!"
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I honestly can't wait for Trudeau Photobomb to become a meme... I'm honestly surprised Conservatives haven't done it already
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Morrigan Stark said:
LOL, you cannot make this shit up... this reads like a Beaverton article hahaha
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Well...

Shirtless Stephen Harper photobombs Calgary couple’s wedding, 5 dead

CALGARY - Tragedy struck a Calgary wedding yesterday evening when five people were killed and a dozen injured after former prime minister Stephen Harper decided to make a candid, topless appearance during the bride and groom’s photo session.

“We were all laughing and smiling. It was perfect,” said distraught bride turned widow Stephanie Lester. “Then all of a sudden I felt this paunchy shadow behind us. I turned around and there he was, smiling with his shirt off.”

“Everything just went kind of black after that,” she added.

Others present at what is being referred to as ‘The Incident’ say that the half-naked former Prime Minister wandered up behind the couple and put his arms around them as they posed, perhaps expecting them to react with delighted glee when they realized who he was. Instead nearly everyone present went into ‘flight mode’ causing a human stampede as the guests tried to flee. Many were crushed.

“Everything was chaos. We were all running and screaming. I think I heard a baby crying in the distance,” said groomsman Henry York. “And in the midst of it all I could still see the last leader of our country waddling around, suggesting he play some ‘Van Cats’ songs at the reception.”

“He cornered me at one point, lunging at me while muttering that this is how politics was done now and that we are all ‘in the demo’, but luckily I managed to fend him off with the cake knife” said mother of the bride Patricia.

Authorities eventually arrived and escorted the Right Honourable Mr. Harper off the premises and into a car waiting to take him to a local Red Lobster.

At press time, a shirtless Tom Mulcair was standing in his bathroom, screaming at his torso that it was a disgrace.
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F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Oh yeah, does anyone know whatever happened to Frank magazine. Or if there's another place who has tried to do the Ottawa "Gawker" thing of basically reporting personal stuff that goes on with MPs?
(Or the CBC... I remember Frank magazine was particularly obsessed with Peter Mansbridge and his "sexist" attitude when I was reading it).
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Non-Ontarians/Québécois continue to be mystified by the idea of bagged milk. Include gems such as,

- How do you pour it? What are "containers"?
- Doesn't the bag fall of the container? What are physics?
- Do you need multiple containers? I can't grasp the idea of using one bag at the time!
- Doesn't it spoil unless you drink it all in one go? How do I fridge?
- Who the hell drinks milk every day?

Etc. Never fails to entertain. :p (Not talking about the OP, btw, who just seemed to find it odd but isn't so clueless about how things work)
 
S

SRG01

Member
SheepyGuy said:
They have it in NS as well.

I'm not sure why it's so localized but I wish I could buy soy milk in a bag.
Click to expand...

I wish I could buy soy milk in a bag too, for price reasons. I have no idea why soy milk is as expensive as it is when it is just soy beans and water.

I mean, I understand milk's price because it's on supply management, but soy milk??
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mik...-for-ottawa-living-expenses-1.3713011?cmp=rss

The Ol' Duff is back to making his old expense claims.

Shortly after his court vindication, Senator Mike Duffy returned to charging taxpayers for some of his Ottawa living expenses.

According to the Senate's quarterly proactive disclosure report, Duffy claimed $1,691.59 in National Capital Region expenses between March and June of 2016.

These are the types of claims that led to the Senate expenses scandal in the first place, and prompted an overhaul of the rules and regulations for the Upper Chamber.

"I filed my claims as the Senate rules provide, and was approved by Senate administration, and as Judge Vaillancourt agreed were valid," Duffy told CBC News in an email.
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You've got to be fucking kidding me...
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
SRG01 said:
I wish I could buy soy milk in a bag too, for price reasons. I have no idea why soy milk is as expensive as it is when it is just soy beans and water.

I mean, I understand milk's price because it's on supply management, but soy milk??
Click to expand...

It's not that soy milk is expensive, it's that cow's milk is cheap (as in, subsidized heavily and grocery stores sell it at a loss).
 
S

S-Wind

Member
Morrigan Stark said:
Non-Ontarians/Québécois continue to be mystified by the idea of bagged milk. Include gems such as,

- How do you pour it? What are "containers"?
- Doesn't the bag fall of the container? What are physics?
- Do you need multiple containers? I can't grasp the idea of using one bag at the time!
- Doesn't it spoil unless you drink it all in one go? How do I fridge?
- Who the hell drinks milk every day?

Etc. Never fails to entertain. :p (Not talking about the OP, btw, who just seemed to find it odd but isn't so clueless about how things work)
Click to expand...

Here in Vancouver, BC we bought bagged milked from our local supermarkets all throughout the 80's.

I don't remember when bagged milk disappeared around here.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
While I was trapped in Trudeau International Airport because of this, I picked up a copy of Macleans and learned that Alberta is a nightmarish hellscape.

I live in Chicago where, if the media is to be believed, I can be hit by a stray bullet at any time but I'm much more terrified of randomly being attacked by bear spray. You guys need to build a wall around them.
 
C

CazTGG

Member
Laevateinn said:
While I was trapped in Trudeau International Airport because of this, I picked up a copy of Macleans and learned that Alberta is a nightmarish hellscape.

I live in Chicago where, if the media is to be believed, I can be hit by a stray bullet at any time but I'm much more terrified of randomly being attacked by bear spray. You guys need to build a wall around them.
Click to expand...

We Canadians have adapted to the (-20oC) weather in the winter and harsh wildlife, eh. Dem dere walls don't need building to keep some nasty wasty bears out, don'tcha know what dat there's aboot?
 
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