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[HP_Wuvcraft]

Good luck with that.

Doxxing and threatening the Canadian Prime Minister - the leader of an entire fucking country - is going to go a whole lot differently than harassing a female game dev that only a handful of people know off the top of their heads.

 

[Sai-kun]

this guy looks exactly what you would expect a guy saying this shit would look like lmao

 

[Dryk]

yo elaborate

I think they're just pointing out that GamerGate's goals extend further than women and minorities. They are overwhelmingly focused there though.

 

[Mysterious]

There's a gaffer who knows Trudeau, and who mentioned GAF to him once. So the PM knows of GAF to some extent.

Who?

 

[Spiritwalker]

lol, Dyack.

 

[Mailbox]

Who?

by "knows" i think they mean they met him once and mentioned GAF.

Trudeau then asked what they (gaf) thought about the election and of canada

 

[cirrhosis]

There's a gaffer who knows Trudeau, and who mentioned GAF to him once. So the PM knows of GAF to some extent.

oh shit

he should get an account; could post in OT with the rest of us.

 

[marrec]

20 minutes into gaming and chill and he gives you this look:

Trudeau stop fucking throwing and help us 5-man down mid you cheeky fuck.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

There is absolutely no way for you to know this though. You honestly believe that there is zero misogyny at all coming from Canadians online? Yes it is an international issue but you fix issues like that by tackling it in your own country at first.

That's why I worded it as my opinion. I worked with women leads, women programmers, women designers a lot. I've interviewed and got women employees hired over men when their portfolio showed better.

My question is does the Prime Minister know if sexism exists in Canadian game studios before making that statement? Because all of the gamergate controversy have been central around American women journalists.

Read the article. He used it as an example of misogyny in popular culture.I legitimately do not understand what makes you think Canadian game studio culture differs so much from American game studio culture -- especially given there is a statement from someone who used to lead a very prominent Canadian game studio FOR GamerGate on the first page in this thread.

I think it differs quite a lot. I have a few female friends who crossed the border while working in the same studio, and would get sexually harassed on the first day they started working there.

My thoughts on this are affected by their experience, and I think the culture of where I worked at is far better than American studios in general

I find it hard to believe that it simply isn't a problem in Canada, but while it may be less of an issue it's an easy bad guy to point to and say "this is a physical manifestation of online misogyny. this is what we need to fix".

He's not taking responsibility for it, as you're implying, simply pointing to it as an issue that ties directly into feminism.

He should find the problem in Canada before saying it is a problem that we have.

To me, he's just using a hot topic to rep himself up.

 

[Wellscha]

So, maximum penalties on those who target, harass, and swat female streamers?

I'm down.

 

[Zombie James]

I...I think I'm in love.

Seriously, everything I'm reading about this guy makes him sound increasingly awesome. You Canadians did good.

We had to suffer through nine years of ass-backward Conservative policy and ideology to get to this point, though. Maybe without the extremism we wouldn't have had such a dramatic shift back to the Liberals, who knows, but I'm just glad it's over.

 

[SolidSnakex]

He is saying "[gamergate] is something we need to stand clearly against".

Not really that ambiguous.

Pretty sure he's referring to the comment about "video games misogyny in popular culture". That is ambiguous since I can't think of anything that would actually fit that description.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

This makes me happy.

 

[Lord Error]

The best prime minister keeps getting betterer. So happy he's in charge now.

 

[trh]

Oh shit the KiA meltdown will be delicious.

 

[DJIzana]

I think they're just pointing out that GamerGate's goals extend further than women and minorities. They are overwhelmingly focused there though.

That's basically it in a nutshell.

 

[PtM]

I'm all for what Trudeau belives as our new PM but this is seriously an issue he needs to get his facts straight in. This isn't *JUST* an issue that affects women but everyone.

If it affects women, it affects everyone anyway.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

So, maximum penalties on those who target, harass, and swat female streamers?

I'm down.

Why would it only apply to females in this case?

 

[iBlue]

Hopefully he will change the immigration laws for international students, i have been in canada since 2010 and i really wanna stay..

 

[BY2K]

Goddamn, Trudeau.

 

[marrec]

Pretty sure he's referring to the comment about "video games misogyny in popular culture". That is ambiguous since I can't think of anything that would actually fit that description.

I think he's including both Gators and the oddly phrased "video games misogyny in popular culture".

I agree that it's a weird way to say something but either way I don't think he's suggesting that they legislate against neckbearded fedora wearing fucbois.

 

[Merguson]

Giving his all for the ladies.

 

[Faenix1]

So, maximum penalties on those who target, harass, and swat female streamers?

I'm down.

Why just females? Males get swatted, as far as I recall, a lot more.

 

[RMI]

Cool. The government (and law) need to start taking online harassment and threats more seriously. It's absolutely not OK to terrorize people you disagree with.

Also, Dyack? Why am I not surprised this fucking conman is willing to court GG.

 

[Lime]

Government should stay out of such things. Not their job.

Of course it's their job. It's the well-being of their citizens we are talking about here and this is a hate group fucking up people's lives. Please read this:

But in a new book, Citron argues that society should be a lot more concerned about the way women are treated online. She draws a parallel to the 1970s, when many people were equally dismissive about harassment of women in the workplace. Citron argues that online harassment of women should also be thought of as a civil rights issue.

Danielle Citron: What we're talking about isn't mean words, like "you're ugly," the sort of things that are meant to hurt peoples' feelings. We're talking about online harassment that takes away victims' life opportunities. Harassment is accomplished with true threats, privacy invasions, involuntarily disclosed nude photos, and reputation-harming lies. We're talking about systematic harassment that destroys peoples' lives and careers.

DC: Today's responses to online harassment directly parallel the way we once understood sexual harassment in the workplace. The response to women's struggles in the workplace was, "it's messy and personal, we shouldn't get involved." When employers demanded sex in the workplace and made sexually hostile comments, people said "Oh, get over it, it's no big deal, ignore it." Or "You look so attractive, what do you expect?"

This is the exact same responses you hear today. When Kathy Sierra complained about getting harassed back in 2007, the liberal blogger Markos Moulitsas responded by writing, "if they can't handle a little heat in their email inbox, then really, they should try another line of work." He argued that it's part of online life, get over it or leave. [Disclaimer: Markos Moulitsas is on the board of Vox Media, the parent company of Vox.com.]

But leaving isn't an option for people. We can't leave the workplace. You can't leave online life and say there's no hit to your career and choices. In some professions, if you don't have an online presence, you don't have a career.

You hear from law enforcement and from commenters online: "Look the internet is the Wild West, this is just frat boy nonsense, juvenile pranks, ignore it." For people who have their nude photos online, when their confidence is betrayed and their privacy is abused, they're blamed. We also blame people who write about politics and sex: "it's your fault, you deserved rape threats and reputation-harming lies." That's just nonsense.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Who?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=182041271#post182041271

by "knows" i think they mean they met him once and mentioned GAF.

Trudeau then asked what they (gaf) thought about the election and of canada

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=182044475#post182044475

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Government should stay out of such things. Not their job.

nah I think the government should probably get involved in the safety of the people living in their country

 

[Xaero Gravity]

So, maximum penalties on those who target, harass, and swat streamers?

I'm down.

There ya go.

 

[balohna]

Glad he's against this I guess but I don't expect a Liberal PM that's part of the same legacy as the last 5 Liberal PMs (Pearson and his cabinet and their children) to be the diety some people are expecting. He's progressive compared to Harper and a welcome change, but check his actual record as an MP. Hell, even in his campaign he was pro-Keystone and wouldn't rule out TPP or C-51.

Hoping for electoral reform so the actual progressive parties can get real representation.

 

[oneils]

Pretty sure he's referring to the comment about "video games misogyny in popular culture". That is ambiguous since I can't think of anything that would actually fit that description.

Looks to me that he might be referring to the harrassment that gamergaters engaged in.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Calling a prime minister your enemy is a sure way of getting arrested.

 

[scoobidoo112]

As happy as I am with the Canadian victory and the overall politics of the new Prime Minister, I vehemently disagree with this representation of videogames as being misogynistic, just as I disagree with the representation of videogames as being murder simulators.

This is pretty much what I have been fearing, that the mainstream interpretation of videogames will now turn to "videogames promote violence and rape against women". Bad elements of bad games and tropes should not represent the entirety of a creative industry the way that quote does, especially after the last few years where some of my favorite, most well written videogame lead characters were women, so I'm not sure why people seem happy about it. That more women should be welcomed into the gaming industry is a great thing that I support, as is better writing and representation of women in games and dealing with a much larger, overall issues with how men and women interact online and in society, but this generalized notion of "video games misogyny" is not the way to start that conversation, just like stating "videogames are murder simulators" isn't a way to start a conversation on the limits of violence in games or its possible psychological impact on (young) children.

GamerGate on the other hand is something that never should have gotten the continues stream of bait that it got, nor the following stream of attention that has seemingly lasted for months now, and besides reporting genuine threats and harassment to the police that "movement" (of a relatively small group of twitter and chan trolls) should have been ignored and left to die. Honestly the only way I'm even away of their existence after the first month of its appearance is when people post 25 page threads full of screenshots of / rants about what they do and say, basically spreading their actions across the web, only so that the same people can repeat the same reasons why its despicable and sad and horrible, engage with the same troll accounts over and over, and go on until a mod closes the thread only for the whole things to repeat itself a month later.

If you ask me, people should stop talking about GamerGate as if they are important, or as if they represent any kind of group but themselves, and start having this conversation about women in the videogames industry, the treatment of women on the internet (but also extrapolating that to "people" on the internet and how a lack of consequences for actions can lead to extreme behavior), writing and storytelling in videogames and actually exchange ideas, rather than just rant and rave about the evils of GamerGate, engage the troll accounts all the time, etc. Those points were made clear months ago.

I don't know, I hope I don't get any hate for having this opinion, but I just wish we were having productive discussions on topics that matter, not GamerGate, a movement that lives to bait and troll people for attention. "The internet" has been having the same discussion about it on a loop for months now and it's time to move beyond and find solutions.


tldr: GamerGate never mattered, still doesn't matter, and instead of giving them attention we should have those conversations that everyone always say need to take place.

 

[Wellscha]

Why would it only apply to females in this case?

Never heard of girls swatting guys because they didn't send them a dick pic.

Why just females? Males get swatted, as far as I recall, a lot more.

Male or female, I'm in the camp of swatting deserve maximum punishment on GAF.

Sexual harrassment is on another level.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Reinforcing the stereotype

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Thank you Dennis, you just made my night.

 

[Shirke]

I didn't really pay attention to Gamer Gate when it happened, but could someone clarify whether it is supposed to be about ethics in game journalism, or just plain hating on women involved in video games? I don't really know anymore.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Calling a prime minister your enemy is a sure way of getting arrested.

But he'll be getting arrested for THE CAUSE.

He's probably one of those gators that believes they are saving the world.

Besides, the most this little shit will do is encourage other people who are not him to do stuff.

As happy as I am with the Canadian victory and the overall politics of the new Prime Minister, I vehemently disagree with this representation of videogames as being misogynistic

Um.... dude.... if you don't think GamerGate is a representation of video games being misogynistic.....

Do you know how many studios enable GG by staying silent? Hell, by making boob armor?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Calling a prime minister your enemy is a sure way of getting arrested.

Dude is American. I don't even think a Canadian would get arrested for that.

If he said that about Obama though...

 

[Leeness]

He's older than Harper was when he became Prime Minister.

PS. Maybe I should avoid mentioning Harper as much as possible and pretend those 10 years never happened

...who? I don't know who this "Harper" is...

Anyway, :')
#thatsmyPM

 

[Firestorm]

That's why I worded it as my opinion. I worked with women leads, women programmers, women designers a lot. I've interviewed and got women employees hired over men when their portfolio showed better.

My question is does the Prime Minister know if sexism exists in Canadian game studios before making that statement? Because all of the gamergate controversy have been central around American women journalists.

I think it differs quite a lot. I have a few female friends who crossed the border while working in the same studio, and would get sexually harassed on the first day they started working there.

My thoughts on this are affected by their experience, and I think the culture of where I worked at is far better than American studios in general

He should find the problem in Canada before saying it is a problem that we have.

To me, he's just using a hot topic to rep himself up.

There were people pushing GamerGate crap up here too. Especially after the CBC report on it. I just don't think your experience means it doesn't happen here too. I think you haven't hit it much, but I also know people who have. I don't believe that this keeps it from being a good example.

As for the bolded, that's ridiculous. GamerGate isn't a hot topic. It's fucking 2015. It's a hot topic for the nutjobs still involved with it. Anytime it's brought up outside that is to laugh at the nutjobs who are still pushing forward or to point out some atrocious new thing someone has done and it's always within message boards like this.

On top of that, you're talking about a statement made off camera to support a larger point. GamerGate wasn't the focus of his statement. It was an example. GamerGate is not big enough to get a fucking press release.

 

[bananafactory]

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

Reinforcing the stereotype

Hey, I'm sure he's a nice guy.

Spoiler

™

 

[kamineko]

I didn't really pay attention to Gamer Gate when it happened, but could someone clarify whether it is supposed to be about ethics in game journalism, or just plain hating on women involved in video games? I don't really know anymore.

It's mostly this

More has happened since then, but if you want a quick answer, there it is

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I didn't really pay attention to Gamer Gate when it happened, but could someone clarify whether it is supposed to be about ethics in game journalism, or just plain hating on women involved in video games? I don't really know anymore.

GG basically used "ethics in games journalism" as a masquerade for misogyny and to legitimise harassing women. It was painfully obvious from the very fact that their first "target" whom they saw as abusing their power was a fucking female indie developer who didn't really have all that much attention, rather than, I don't know, sites that run full page ads promoting a game right next to their reviews or publishers sending out ridiculous amounts of swag to journalists.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

This is good to hear.

I just hope the rest of the world don't think all gamers are like gamergate. #notallgamers lol

 

[marrec]

-snip-

I hope you don't get any hate either, because it would be dumb to hate you for having a perfectly reasonable opinion.

It's misinformed however.

Gamergate is extremely important to the culture of video games and the internet as a whole. They're a highly organized and entrenched community of shit heads who represent a new way forward for this kind of fuckery. The abuse faced by those who've been targeted is very real, much more extreme and focused, and hasn't been propped up by anything but the development, production, and enthusiast video game community's lack of will toward vehemently denying everything it stands for.

 

[10k]

Trudeau calls him and with a French accent says softly "Good luck" *hangs up*

 

[RMI]

Lol god damn it.

 

[BY2K]

Guess who have something to say on this.

Wait, what does he think GamerGate is to talk like that? I'm confused.

 

[Vlaphor]

I didn't really pay attention to Gamer Gate when it happened, but could someone clarify whether it is supposed to be about ethics in game journalism, or just plain hating on women involved in video games? I don't really know anymore.

Generally just spewing gaming hate in general, with women and minorities as primary targets. Also, keep in mind that the "ethics in game journalism" part was them saying that an indie game dev slept with several journalists to build up support for her game that she was releasing for free.