Canadian Prime Minister:"We need to stand against gamergate and video games misogyny"

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MutFox said:
I was saying more about guys in here saying it's a problem about everyone, not just women.
We have to solve some issues together first, before moving on to others.

Once enough people take a stand, GG outliers will come around.
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This is an amazing slogan. This is something Diamond Joe Quimby would run on.
 
danm999 said:
I get that yeah. There is more to that topic than one group.

But the idea you shouldn't talk about that specific group, and focus somehow on the issue alone talking around the ground that is very prominent in that issue for fear of empowering them somehow isn't practical.
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I don't understand this way of thinking. I'll use this comparison:

When school shootings take place, people go out of their way to say " don't mention the shooter, don't say his name and don't show his picture". The idea is to then talk about the issues of school shootings (and guns, mental health, etc) instead of giving shooters a platform so that others are inspired to compete.

Now, when you have a group of online nutters who crave attention and bait, troll and harass people, we should focus the entire conversation towards them, publish everything they say and never have a conversation about an underlying or larger issue without constantly mentioning them by name?

How is that effective and not distracting? Why do people insist we not mention one group of people that do horrible things and instead have a conversation about the underlying issues, but then turn around and say we should always mention and talk about another group of people that do horrible things and not even try to focus on the actual issues themselves.

I really don't get this double standard. If you hate GamerGate then you undermine them politically and on a social level, through useful dialog and the exchange of ideas, not by giving them endless attention and mockery that distracts from that goal.
 
jholmes said:
How are you still unclear on this?



This is your whole problem, that you latch onto things strangers say and assign them motivations plucked from nowhere. I think GamerGate is both uninteresting and largely abominable. If you don't want to discuss what I'm actually saying, I'd just as soon forget about this exchange.
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1) It is clear to me that he's not PM... yet. I even said as much in the parts you conveniently left out.

2) I have no idea what the fuck you're arguing for if you didn't come in here to shitpost on GG's behalf.

Like, are you so anal that you need to come in this thread and make fun of people's intelligence because the thread title doesn't specify that a man that has been elected PM has not been sworn in yet? Like, what exactly is your point?

If you're against GG as a group, I don't understand your insistence on shitposting?
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
1) It is clear to me that he's not PM... yet. I ever said as much in the parts you conveniently left out.

2) I have no idea what the fuck you're arguing for if you didn't come in here to shitpost on GG's behalf.

Like, are you so fucking anal that you need to come in this thread and make fun of people's intelligence because the thread title doesn't specify that a man that has been elected PM has not been sworn in yet? Like, what exactly is your point?

If you're against GG as a group, I don't understand your insistence on shitposting?
Click to expand...

So first I'm salty, then I'm shitposting. So if you don't like what I have to say, it's one or the other, eh?

Something to chew on: Not everyone with an opinion is looking to wage war along partisan lines. Some of us just have our own opinions.
 
jholmes said:
So first I'm salty, then I'm shitposting. So if you don't like what I have to say, it's one or the other, eh?

Something to chew on: Not everyone with an opinion is looking to wage war along partisan lines. Some of us just have our own opinions.
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You were shitposting. You may have been doing it because you were "salty" about the election or because you're just super fucking inane and want to be pedantic. Saying "He isn't the Prime Minister" isn't an opinion. It's being that guy who needs to interrupt the discussion because something wasn't 100% to the letter of what a word means even though everyone else understood what the speaker meant.
 
Firestorm said:
You were shitposting. You may have been doing it because you were "salty" about the election or because you're just super fucking inane and want to be pedantic. Saying "He isn't the Prime Minister" isn't an opinion. It's being that guy who needs to interrupt the discussion because something wasn't 100% to the letter of what a word means even though everyone else understood what the speaker meant.
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And then I said this is apparently all GAF needs to hear from its politicians. I should think that's an opinion.

I'd like to think some people here could agree to disagree, but I see that's certainly not the case!
 
jholmes said:
So first I'm salty, then I'm shitposting. So if you don't like what I have to say, it's one or the other, eh?

Something to chew on: Not everyone with an opinion is looking to wage war along partisan lines. Some of us just have our own opinions.
Click to expand...

People jumped on your post because it had little to do with the topic of this thread, so it seemed suspect.

This thread isn't about whether or not Trudeau is truly PM yet, nor is it about how cool people think he is.
 
scoobidoo112 said:
I don't understand this way of thinking. I'll use this comparison:

When school shootings take place, people go out of their way to say " don't mention the shooter, don't say his name and don't show his picture". The idea is to then talk about the issues of school shootings (and guns, mental health, etc) instead of giving shooters a platform so that others are inspired to compete.

Now, when you have a group of online nutters who crave attention and bait, troll and harass people, we should focus the entire conversation towards them, publish everything they say and never have a conversation about an underlying or larger issue without constantly mentioning them by name?

How is that effective and not distracting? Why do people insist we not mention one group of people that do horrible things and instead have a conversation about the underlying issues, but then turn around and say we should always mention and talk about another group of people that do horrible things and not even try to focus on the actual issues themselves.

I really don't get this double standard. If you hate GamerGate then you undermine them politically and on a social level, through useful dialog and the exchange of ideas, not by giving them endless attention and mockery that distracts from that goal.
Click to expand...

It's a difference in motivations plainly. I mean, you're comparing someone who intends to commit a one time murder suicide and achieve some immortality and infamy to a group who deliberately uses anonymity and secrecy to repeatedly harass people. They're going for different things.

This is where the Klan comparison is useful again, because its a better analogue for the movement than a mass shooter. The Klan used secrecy and terror to deliberately and repeatedly target, humiliate and murder African Americans or people who supported the rights of African Americans. Rarely did they engage in bombastic last stands where individuals tried to cover themselves in racist glory (though it wasn't unheard of); typically they worked in secrecy concealing their identity and acting out of sight.

The goal of most GamerGate harassment campaigns isn't to sacrifice their members either. In fact they deliberately congregate on sites with strong emphasis on anonymity to avoid being caught (though, granted not all of them).

They aren't simply an individual looking to achieve a one time end; they're an organised group attempting to achieve a long term goal through a campaign of sustained harassment.

Ignoring them will not make them go away, because they'll still feel like they've been marginalised by a changing culture, and will still pursue whoever they feel deserves their wrath.

Fundamentally, they aren't seeking attention for the sake of attention, hence this "just don't look" attitude is futile. They are seeking to change something, and to do that one of the best things at their disposal is a low level of scrutiny.
 
killer rin said:
tumblr_nwjrfa368g1szmngno1_1280.png
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I really hope he and his friends try to attack him.
Spending a while in jail might get him to think about his life decisions
 
For those complaining about the "inaccuracy": I wanted to say Future Prime Minister, but it didn't fit in the title. I also had to rework the quote a bit to make it fit, if you want to point out another "lie".

EDIT: I don't know if it was directed at me, but accusing me of being a Liberal/Trudeau partisan would be pretty silly.
 
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

He isn't even sworn in as PM yet. Chill out.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

It's understandable that there are matters which require more care and attention than others, but are you insinuating that by not mentioning Gamergate and how there is a rampant culture of misogyny on the internet as a whole, those 30 seconds of lip-service are going to miraculously repair the flaws in the healthcare system instead?

Clearly it needs to be fixed, I'm not arguing, but at the same time, why is it relevant to this discussion at all?
 
Somehow I don't think a statement on health care would have been an appropriate response to questions about violence against women nor do I think it would be a thread on the gaming side of the forum.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...
Why did you spend so much time typing that Neogaf post while kids are starving in Africa?
 
jholmes said:
Not everyone with an opinion is looking to wage war along partisan lines. Some of us just have our own opinions.
Click to expand...

None of which you have posted. You've just gone on about how the thread title is slightly inaccurate.

Don't post in a thread about a specific issue with no intent to actually discuss said issue. That's the definition of shitposting.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

Shockingly, high level politicians and in fact, most people, can care about multiple things at the same time.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

By all means, lets trivialize one thing because another thing is happening.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

don't let perfect be the enemy of good. also, more than one thing can occur at one time.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

Not really sure what the point of this was. The system is broke because Harper has been trying to dismantle it for the last decade.
 
As a foreigner I'd say I supported this guy and that all of GAF should rally around this new PM were it not illegal to do so!
/s

Someone should warn these GG people that the Canadians don't have quite the same "freedom of expression" policies surrounding government that the US does. Actually, don't warn them. This should be fun.
 
It doesn't really matter whether he's the PM right now or on Nov. 4th. Parliament is dissolved so technically there is no sitting PM right now, and he's definitely going to be the next one. It's an absurdly semantic detail.

gaboumafou said:
Why did you spend so much time typing that Neogaf post while kids are starving in Africa?
Click to expand...

Love it.
 
fastford58 said:
Mean fucking while, the floor I work on in our hospital is tasked with saving 2 million dollars this year (on top of a budget freeze despite increasing costs of 3-4.5%...news outlets report 2.5% increases but that is BULLSHIT) so now if we get a sick call we can't call in a replacement nurse.

This means our already over tasked and over worked staff (on an acute surgical floor) is potentially adding another patient on top of our already very busy patient load.

But hey, when your family member is dying right in front of you, remember this important issue. Glad our priorities are straight.

There are bigger problems that need to be fixed in this country. And no, this is not a lolstevenharperdevilwreckedit thing. This is the system built by the original Trudeau and it is FAILING day by day and this failure started the day the original act was signed.

If Canadians could only see from the inside how fucking broken our healthcare system is, you would be appalled. But hey...vidja game bullshit.

Sorry for being in meltdown mode, and I'm not trying to minimize misogyny and racism in the game industry, but this other shit affects everybody in more profound ways. I promise you. The current problems in our healthcare (and education system) transcend race and gender.
Click to expand...

children are dying in other countries, fastford
 
scoobidoo112 said:
I don't understand this way of thinking. I'll use this comparison:

When school shootings take place, people go out of their way to say " don't mention the shooter, don't say his name and don't show his picture". The idea is to then talk about the issues of school shootings (and guns, mental health, etc) instead of giving shooters a platform so that others are inspired to compete.

Now, when you have a group of online nutters who crave attention and bait, troll and harass people, we should focus the entire conversation towards them, publish everything they say and never have a conversation about an underlying or larger issue without constantly mentioning them by name?

How is that effective and not distracting? Why do people insist we not mention one group of people that do horrible things and instead have a conversation about the underlying issues, but then turn around and say we should always mention and talk about another group of people that do horrible things and not even try to focus on the actual issues themselves.

I really don't get this double standard. If you hate GamerGate then you undermine them politically and on a social level, through useful dialog and the exchange of ideas, not by giving them endless attention and mockery that distracts from that goal.
Click to expand...

You are doing that thing where you are conflating two groups of people and implying that there is one unified position on a subject. It's like when people say "Gaf hates Sony in this post, but Gaf loves Sony in this post! What's the deal? Hypocrisy!"

The people who hold that view on mass shooters might not be the same people who have opinions about calling out misogynist assholes. Honestly both subjects are far to complicated to be simplified down into an absolute position.

One difference between mass shootings and Misogyny by the way. Everybody agrees that mass shootings exist, so naming them doesn't serve as much of a purpose. However there are a ton of people who argue that sexism doesn't exist at all, so shining a light on examples does serve a purpose.
 
scoobidoo112 said:
So, we can't have a conversion about the harassment of females online without always mentioning gamergate, posting screenshots of what they have to say and constantly derailing threads on said topic to rants about how evil they are? Doesn't the fact that GamerGate keeps being mentioned motive them to keep doing it?

I mean, it's like saying we can't talk about racism without mentioning stormfront, or talk about political extremism without mentioning breitbart and fox news, or talk about rape without mentioning Bill Cosby.

If you ask me, all it does is divert attention towards that movement you are against.
Click to expand...
Problem is mate, even if you think they don't matter they have done sizeable harassment to female developers that some are thinking of leaving the industry together.

Yes, there's times where making the topic about online female harassment to be more universal but currently, the group is still active in a sense. Ignoring them won't work. Ignoring sexism never has.
 
Vancouver or Canadian games studios have loads of female employees. There was a period over 4 years in the early 2000s where at the company I worked for where we hired every woman who came through the door. Problem was that only 4 ever did. It has turned around a lot in the last 7 years though. In 19 years I've never seen women turned away from positions due to their gender.

Now in terms of GG waged abuse. Yeah I can't imagine it is necessarily any better here from the game audience.
 
cocopuffs said:
ehhhh maybe he really shouldn't be taking a stance on something as specific as this. seems weird to have the pm reference gamer gate.
Click to expand...
He wasn't PM when he gave that interview, for one thing, but not that it matters, why shouldn't a politician take a stance on something like that? You're not making any sense.

gaboumafou said:
Why did you spend so much time typing that Neogaf post while kids are starving in Africa?
Click to expand...
Perfect
 
Vault Boy said:
tumblr_nwjrfa368g1szmngno1_1280.png


Is there a word to describe a group of people that you don't want to kill, but wish you knew nothing about it and that said group had no recognition or political power?
Click to expand...

i love how the gamergater's targets have become more and more varied as they realize everyone hates them.
 
Canada went from the world's laughing stock to the best country on earth overnight.

Now just lower our game prices by 10-15 dollars.

hiex_ said:
Sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

Trudeau is literally a gamer/comic nerd though. He goes to Comic-Con on the regular
 
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