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[GuinGuin]

Everyone with even a tiny platform will not only try to tell you what not to like but also what TO like. Metacritic, rotten tomatoes, news editorials it's all the same. One person taking an existing opinion and trying to amplify that group think to the world oftentimes through hyperbole in order to increase their own clout, following, and paycheck. Don't fall for it, folks.

 

[Lady Bird]

It's an interesting comparison, but I'm not sure I agree. Hype culture, at its worst, only leads to disappointment. And it's exciting to be hyped at something that many others are as well, even at the risk of that hype being manufactured.

Cancel culture, however, is a very unhealthy, vicious cycle of obsessing over what other people do or say and role-playing as a virtuous moralist on the internet.

 

[ManaByte]

Everyone with even a tiny platform will not only try to tell you what not to like but also what TO like. Metacritic, rotten tomatoes, news editorials it's all the same. One person taking an existing opinion and trying to amplify that group think to the world oftentimes through hyperbole in order to increase their own clout, following, and paycheck. Don't fall for it, folks.

One destroys lives, the other doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[GuinGuin]

It's an interesting comparison, but I'm not sure I agree. Hype culture, at its worst, only leads to disappointment. And it's exciting to be hyped at something that many others are as well, even at the risk of that hype being manufactured.

Cancel culture, however, is a very unhealthy, vicious cycle of obsessing over what other people do or say and role-playing as a virtuous moralist on the internet.

By hyping something you're endorsing the morality of whatever it is you're hyping. Same thing.

 

[Nester99]

It's an interesting comparison, but I'm not sure I agree. Hype culture, at its worst, only leads to disappointment. And it's exciting to be hyped at something that many others are as well, even at the risk of that hype being manufactured.

Cancel culture, however, is a very unhealthy, vicious cycle of obsessing over what other people do or say and role-playing as a virtuous moralist on the internet.

Na, this ain't it.

 

[GuinGuin]

Na, this ain't it.

Not really a brilliant response but I'll give you an example. One person says don't buy Marilyn Manson albums because multiple women have accused him of sexual assault. Another person says buy them he's great who cares what he does in his person life. Both examples are someone trying to choose your moral decision for you.

 

[DKehoe]

Not really a brilliant response but I'll give you an example. One person says don't buy Marilyn Manson albums because multiple women have accused him of sexual assault. Another person says buy them he's great who cares what he does in his person life. Both examples are someone trying to choose your moral decision for you.

That just sounds like people having opinions.

 

[GuinGuin]

That just sounds like people having opinions.

A cancel opinion and a hype opinion. If they are making these statements publicly for some garbage website it fits the pattern.

 

[Lady Bird]

A cancel opinion and a hype opinion. If they are making these statements publicly for some garbage website it fits the pattern.

Trying to get someone fired goes beyond "having an opinion".

 

[Lanrutcon]

Uh. Cancel culture destroys lives. Never seen anyone lose their fucking career through hype culture.

This is a very, very misinformed thread.

 

[GuinGuin]

Uh. Cancel culture destroys lives. Never seen anyone lose their fucking career through hype culture.

This is a very, very misinformed thread.

If you think hypers or cancellers are in it for anything other than a paycheck and publicity I think you're naive. All I'm saying is make your own opinions about things and don't just listen to the echo chamber on either side.

 

[Lanrutcon]

If you think hypers or cancellers are in it for anything other than a paycheck and publicity I think you're naive. All I'm saying is make your own opinions about things and don't just listen to the echo chamber on either side.

Cancel culture is driven by the need to feel morally superior, amongst other things. The folks that dig up 14 year old tweets to get someone fired, and the people who then support those efforts over social media, rarely see a cent out of the affair. Publicity (attention seeking) is maybe a distant third on the motivation list after spite and virtue signaling.

 

[Star-Lord]

Not really a brilliant response but I'll give you an example. One person says don't buy Marilyn Manson albums because multiple women have accused him of sexual assault. Another person says buy them he's great who cares what he does in his person life. Both examples are someone trying to choose your moral decision for you.

So this isn't a thread about cancel/hype culture, it's about having an opinion.

Got ya.

 

[DKehoe]

Trying to get someone fired goes beyond "having an opinion".

Yeh, that's the thing. It's where you draw the line between someone having and vocalising an opinion to them acting like no other opinion is acceptable. I don't see how Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic are forcing people to have opinions and punishing them for disagreeing. They're just aggregators. Some people take their numbers a bit too seriously. But that's not the fault of those sites.

 

[SidViscous]

Two sides of the same coin indeed.

 

[thefool]

I don't think they're similar events at all but I do think certain hyperbolic tendencies do come from the same cloth. Most online discourse does.

 

[M1chl]

There is probably some socioeconomic reality hidden between the lines of this thread premise and me with middling intellect and just economy ( where other humans = enemies) degree really don't see it.

Thread is nonsense, but said in non-cancel culture manner.

 

[GuinGuin]

There is probably some socioeconomic reality hidden between the lines of this thread premise and me with middling intellect and just economy ( where other humans = enemies) degree really don't see it.

Thread is nonsense, but said in non-cancel culture manner.

My condolences for the middling intellect. Life must be a challenge every day just to get out of bed.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

For me, this is "Damned If You Do And Damned If You Don't" type of situation. Also, cancel culture isn't just a "fancy" way to say you disagree with someone, and you just do not want to spend money, provide attention to that person/company?

I saw many people saying something stupid/offensive/disgusting, and when people give their backs on them, those people complain they are being canceled.

 

[IDKFA]

Does cancel culture really exist?

I heard JK Rowling was cancelled, but she's still writing books and people are still buying Harry Potter merchandise.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Does cancel culture really exist?

I heard JK Rowling was cancelled, but she's still writing books and people are still buying Harry Potter merchandise.

She's her own boss and rich as fuck. What exactly can anyone do to her? Kick her off her own book?

 

[GeekyDad]

Everyone with even a tiny platform will not only try to tell you what not to like but also what TO like. Metacritic, rotten tomatoes, news editorials it's all the same. One person taking an existing opinion and trying to amplify that group think to the world oftentimes through hyperbole in order to increase their own clout, following, and paycheck. Don't fall for it, folks.

Did this just now occur to you? Better late than never, I guess.

 

[bender]

Isn't this post your own tiny platform to chase clout?

 

[PleaseDontBanMe]

i'm so anti cancel culture I kinda felt bad for Bin Laden when they killed him and everyone was in the streets celebrating

all life is precious.

 

[strange headache]

Cancel culture is just modern day ostracism enabled by social media and technology.
Hype culture is an expression of our braindead materialistic society and empowering blind consumerism through advertisement in disguise.

Both are frikkin' awful.

 

[Toots]

I don't know about hype culture, but it's really sad watching 30+ human beings living vicariously through their hope of attaining peace of mind and contentment through consommation,
and that the next funkopop, star wars, marvel, etc.. crap is the one they really need.

About cancel culture tho, i think Humanity will always need scapegoats and today's victims are tomorrow's persecutors.

GuinGuin read René Girard and his work on scapegoat mechanism, it's going to blow your mind and tits.

First line of Le bouc émissaire presentation :

"Oedipus is cast out of Thebes as responsible of the plague unleashed on the city. The victim is agreeing with his persecutors."

René Girard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Le bouc émissaire (Grand format - Autre 1982), de René Girard | Grasset

Oedipe est chassé de Thèbes comme responsable du fléau qui s'abat sur la ville. La victime est d'accord avec ses bourreaux. Le malheur est apparu parc

www.grasset.fr

Scapegoating - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IDKFA]

She's her own boss and rich as fuck. What exactly can anyone do to her? Kick her off her own book?

Make it so her books are no longer sold. All Harry Potter merchandise, including films and books are scrapped and never sold again. Complete rewrite of history so Harry Potter and JK Rowling never existed and any talk of her, Harry Potter and her other novels are punishable by prison sentence.

That's my idea of cancel culture! Pure ostracism of the most extreme order.

 

[Star-Lord]

Make it so her books are no longer sold. All Harry Potter merchandise, including films and books are scrapped and never sold again. Complete rewrite of history so Harry Potter and JK Rowling never existed and any talk of her, Harry Potter and her other novels are punishable by prison sentence.

Today I learned to not take business advice from IDKFA.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Make it so her books are no longer sold. All Harry Potter merchandise, including films and books are scrapped and never sold again. Complete rewrite of history so Harry Potter and JK Rowling never existed and any talk of her, Harry Potter and her other novels are punishable by prison sentence.

That's my idea of cancel culture! Pure ostracism of the most extreme order.

You could probably get her work banned (in the US, at least) if she said something extreme enough. The Harry Potter stuff is a bit of a global phenomenon though. She'd wipe away her tears with stacks of $200 bills.

 

[Whitecrow]

Man this thread delivers like no other.

OP you have a weird definition of 'same coin'...

 

[IDKFA]

Today I learned to not take business advice from IDKFA.

You could probably get her work banned (in the US, at least) if she said something extreme enough. The Harry Potter stuff is a bit of a global phenomenon though. She'd wipe away her tears with stacks of $200 bills.

Lol

I'm just saying that this is what true cancel culture would look like. Not that we should carry out with it. .

Cancel culture, to me anyway, is currently just white noise on Twitter that should be ignored

 

[Star-Lord]

It's ironic that the majority of us are calling to cancel cancel culture, making us a part of cancel culture itself.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Lol

I'm just saying that this is what true cancel culture would look like. Not that we should carry out with it. .

Cancel culture, to me anyway, is currently just white noise on Twitter that should be ignored

But IDKFA, you sexually molested me 16 years ago (or made a semi-racist tweet, same thing really) and I will be stating so on Twitter using your real name. I don't have any plans on legal action and I don't have any proof, but your employer can't risk being associated with you due to the allegations. Tomorrow you're getting fired, and from here on out any Google searches against you will bring up your history of sexual misconduct for the rest of your life. Because my story will detail your terrible straight white male behavior in the face of my pure <insert whatever I identify as this week> righteousness, everyone will believe me and crucify you.

And if you think there aren't real world examples of that, you might want to check where you're posting.

 

[ZehDon]

"This movie was AMAZING! You MUST see it! Click the link below for a discounted ticket exclusively through MY channel!"
vs
"Get this man fired, get his wife fired, get his kids kicked out of school! Make sure he has no career, do not stop harassing him, do not allow him to speak, do not allow him to be heard - do not stop until we have his suicide!"

Maybe I'm just old, but these are not two sides of the same anything. One has been unchanged since before electricity and is used to generate profit, the other has been changed and weaponised by the advent of the internet and is used to destroy lives.

 

[GuinGuin]

But IDKFA, you sexually molested me 16 years ago (or made a semi-racist tweet, same thing really) and I will be stating so on Twitter using your real name. I don't have any plans on legal action and I don't have any proof, but your employer can't risk being associated with you due to the allegations. Tomorrow you're getting fired, and from here on out any Google searches against you will bring up your history of sexual misconduct for the rest of your life. Because my story will detail your terrible straight white male behavior in the face of my pure <insert whatever I identify as this week> righteousness, everyone will believe me and crucify you.

And if you think there aren't real world examples of that, you might want to check where you're posting.

If one person says that it's not fair but it's almost never one person. People like Bill Cosby have dozens of accusers and have ruined dozens of lives. If they can't book a Netflix special after that comes to light that's a small price to pay in comparison to the damage they have caused others.

 

[IDKFA]

But IDKFA, you sexually molested me 16 years ago (or made a semi-racist tweet, same thing really) and I will be stating so on Twitter using your real name. I don't have any plans on legal action and I don't have any proof....

Sounds like a defamation case there.

 

[Toots]

Sounds like a defamation case there.

Have you time and money to litigate?
Anyway people only remember the accusations not the retractation.

We have one similar case happening in real time right now with the Avellone stuff.
He has a lot of money so he can push on through but he still got canned from a previous job and dragged through mud for the better part of last year....

 

[Relativ9]

People liking thigns can be infectious, this is the core power of "hype culture". If what your saying is that people hating things can also be infectious, than this is true, but to a much lesser extent and usually only affecting nihilistic people with deep-seated self image issues. I'll grant you that these people have grown in number lately and control a large mindshare within western media, but one is a coordinated effort to police how people think and feel, and another is people liking stuff and enjoying when other people also recognize and like the same qualities they do in that thing...it builds kindship and community.

It would be two sides of the same coin if the motive was the same, but they couldn't be further apart, if you enjoy say; the new spiderman movie, and someone else doesn't enjoy it, you won't nessarily dislike that person for having a different opinion, you'd simply choose something else to talk about. But if you are pro-LGBT and someone is a homophobe, you'd probably not want to associate with that person, and if you were militant in your beliefs you'd probably try and make sure nobody else associates with him either (cancelling him).

 

[GuinGuin]

People liking thigns can be infectious, this is the core power of "hype culture". If what your saying is that people hating things can also be infectious, than this is true, but to a much lesser extent and usually only affecting nihilistic people with deep-seated self image issues. I'll grant you that these people have grown in number lately and control a large mindshare within western media, but one is a coordinated effort to police how people think and feel, and another is people liking stuff and enjoying when other people also recognize and like the same qualities they do in that thing...it builds kindship and community.

It would be two sides of the same coin if the motive was the same, but they couldn't be further apart, if you enjoy say; the new spiderman movie, and someone else doesn't enjoy it, you won't nessarily dislike that person for having a different opinion, you'd simply choose something else to talk about. But if you are pro-LGBT and someone is a homophobe, you'd probably not want to associate with that person, and if you were militant in your beliefs you'd probably try and make sure nobody else associates with him either (cancelling him).

First time on a forum? I've definitely seen people go at each other's throats for either praising or hating a piece of entertainment. It's probably responsible for 90% of the bans here.

 

[Relativ9]

First time on a forum? I've definitely seen people go at each other's throats for either praising or hating a piece of entertainment. It's probably responsible for 90% of the bans here.

Passionate debate/arguing is a thing among any fanbase, so is trolling and flaming just for the fuck of it, doesn't mean that you'd actually wish that person harm, or wouldn't be cordial with him/her if encountered in real life. People who get cancelled literally have mobs of violent antifa "goons" follow them through the street throwing projectiles at them.

Unless you think some 14 year old saying a "yo mama" joke would actually fuck your mom just to spite you.

 

[GuinGuin]

Passionate debate/arguing is a thing among any fanbase, so is trolling and flaming just for the fuck of it, doesn't mean that you'd actually wish that person harm, or wouldn't be cordial with him/her if encountered in real life. People who get cancelled literally have mobs of violent antifa "goons" follow them through the street throwing projectiles at them.

Unless you think some 14 year old saying a "yo mama" joke would actually fuck your mom just to spite you.

People have literally given death threats to people over video game reviews. Also, Antifa doesn't exist any more than 4chan's "Legion" army.

 

[Relativ9]

People have literally given death threats to people over video game reviews. Also, Antifa doesn't exist any more than 4chan's "Legion" army.

And you think those death threats are legitimate? And you think that a neutral third party seeing the death threat is more likely to side with the agressor than he victim? That's what we're talking about here, influence and the motivation behind wielding it.

 

[GuinGuin]

And you think those death threats are legitimate? And you think that a neutral third party seeing the death threat is more likely to side with the agressor than he victim? That's what we're talking about here, influence and the motivation behind wielding it.

Are you implying there aren't people maladjusted enough to murder someone for an illogical reason?

 

[Lanrutcon]

If one person says that it's not fair but it's almost never one person.

...it's almost always one person when it's not Hollywood, but they get all the press. I'm with you on Cosby.

Sounds like a defamation case there.

Oh, please sue the woman you molested. When she weeps on video for Patreon, you'll just look worst. And regardless of who wins the case, every future employer will Google you as a potential sexual offender who abused the system to take advantage of a victim.

You can't win this game.

 

[Relativ9]

Are you implying there aren't people maladjusted enough to murder someone for an illogical reason?

I'm implying that treating every threat as if it were ligitimate just becaus a small handful of them eventually turn out to be is illogical.

For example: I hereby formaly warn you that if you ever use the word "the" again I will use my great telekenetic powers to turn your large toe on your left foot into the cartoon character Goofy from Disney, he will say "ah-hyuck!" every time you take a step with that foot and it will be really really annoying and might even lead to some serious mental health issues for you which could eventually spiral and lead to your death.

Now, do you think that what I just did is on the same wavelenght, with the same underlying motivation, or has to potential to have the same impact as cancelling someone for saying they don't like abortion or hyping up the next Assassins Creed game?

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Hype is generally a good indication whether something resonates with people who generally share the same interests as you. In the promotion community, we call this "word of mouth," "street teams," etc. It can be done in a toxic way, sure. Where the first opinion is a bad one, and that's what people cling to, and regurgitate those points ad nauseum with little or no original thought added to them, thus perpetuating one person's truth as an objective reality. You'll see this a lot with the drama youtube channels, the ones that read someone else's article verbatim and rehash their points for clicks, then proceed to beat a dead horse.

But comparing it to cancel culture is like comparing apples to oranges. Cancel culture in itself is a weaponized mechanism by the have-nots to try and enforce their own brand of gospel through ripple waves to influence a medium they would have no clout within otherwise were it not for the blurring of lines created by social media.