Capcom and Square Enix Comment on Switch 2's Keycards - Cite Performance and Sales Reasons for Usage (FF: Intergrade and Requiem)

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Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Director Naoki Hamaguchi:

"Yes, I've heard the reactions of various Nintendo players to the Game Key Cards. I certainly understand their perspective. I can understand what might bother them, why they might not like them, and I really do. But among developers, the discussion about the format might be a little different than fans might expect.

Perhaps the biggest issue for developers is, certainly for people like us who are developing high-end HD games, is the loading speed, because if you compare that to an [SSD] drive and the speed you get from that when loading, it's inferior. So that's really the bigger problem when it comes to developing games, high-end games for the Switch 2, and what's possible with it.

This is just my personal opinion, but I would like it if Nintendo fans understood the key cards and perhaps accepted them as part of the gaming culture on the Switch because they offer more possibilities. It's an option that not everyone needs to use, but it's another way to make the games available to fans, and I think we could miss opportunities if we didn't have that option, because there might be people who wouldn't be able to play the game otherwise.

I really understand why people are negative about it, and there are good reasons and arguments for it. But if people are more accepting of it, I think there are also advantages, and from a developer's perspective, it allows us to do things we might not otherwise do."
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Requiem's director Koshi Nakanishi:

One of the big topics at the moment around Switch 2 are the Game Key Cards. As a team making one of the most technically intense Switch 2 games, so far, is data streaming an issue when you're putting a game onto a card, as some other developers have suggested? Basically, are Game Key Cards a developer consideration, or a publishing one?

KN: It's not a development decision for us, it's more of a sales strategy decision.
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Make It Rain Money GIF
 
I have no problem with a game key card. As long as the game loads quick, I'm good. Besides, I'm sure Nintendo will have faster carts later down the line.
 
nial said:
Is there any reason as to why Nintendo couldn't allow optional game installs like it was done on PS3?
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That would solve all the problems but it's too radical idea.

Sony and developers solved "slow storage" problem in 2006. With what you can also have fully functional game without the need of any internet connection.
 
Bojji said:
That would solve all the problems but it's too radical idea.

Sony and developers solved "slow storage" problem in 2006. With what you can also have fully functional game without the need of any internet connection.
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It's extremely hilarious that they somehow didn't think about this when even the current and better, 64GB-only Switch 2 cards are, seemingly, still not fast enough for some stuff like FF7R Intergrade and SW Outlaws.
 
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Yet I'm playing Cyberpunk 2077 from the cartridge...

The Land Of Make Believe Wow GIF


Edit:
I'm kind of sick of being fed lies we never know what's true anymore. But the reality is, nobody likes the game key cards. So I'd say: do something about it!

Handheld games used to be their own thing, distinct from their console counterparts. So maybe rethink the packaging — but seriously, stop trying to justify these damn game key cards that nobody wants.
 
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The max size and data streaming issues are unfortunate, can't really blame devs for ditching the format in those cases.

Although I have a feeling that even if those two things were not an issue, the same devs who blame their decision on them would be going with a Game-key cart anyway and it'd just switch from being a "development decision" to being "more of a sales strategy decision".
 
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Capcom, Square-Enix, I'd only consider buying a Game Key Card if it's super cheap. Please understand, it's just a sales strategy reason.
 
Robb said:
The max size and data streaming issues are unfortunate, can't really blame devs for ditching the format in those cases.

Although I have a feeling that even if those two things were not an issue, the same devs who blame their decision on them would be going with a Game-key cart anyway and it'd just switch from being a "development decision" to being "more of a sales strategy decision".
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This. The reality is that Switch 2 cartridges are vastly more expensive on a per unit basis than game key cards, and that's the actual motivating factor here.

It's why some publishers are opting to put the full game on the cart but at the cost of a $10 upcharge (like the MK Collection) and it's why no publishers are opting to use the cartridges as installation disks the way that current gen consoles use blurays (which also read too slowly vs. SSDs). And, on the upside, it's why some game key card games are being sold for less than full price (like FFVIIR).

It's not even a "greedy corporations" thing. The physical media itself is just ridiculously expensive compared to discs. It fucking sucks and hopefully when mass production kicks in the prices will come down, but right now I don't blame publishers for selling an older game for $40 on a game key card rather than selling it for $70 on a cartridge.
 
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blacktout said:
and it's why no publishers are opting to use the cartridges as installation disks the way that current gen consoles use blurays (which also read too slowly vs. SSDs).
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But that's because they literally can't. It's an OS-level feature that is not available on Nintendo consoles.
 
Sorry, but no... If you're paying full price, then they should put the entire game on the cartridge.

That's what happened with the color manuals and the posters or add-ons, which they removed.
 
I'll be honest, Nintendo screwed up with Keycards... Okay, I'd accept them... If it weren't for the console's memory. Nintendo screwed up there too.
 
Gaming has 'evolved' wrong for decades and needs to be rethought.
Nintendo had instant gameplay across its platforms through N64 - instant load, instant respawn.
The fact that 20 years of technological advancements later Nintendo has massive load times is unacceptable.
 
awwr999999 said:
The fact that 20 years of technological advancements later Nintendo has massive load times is unacceptable.
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Huh? I think you're conflating load times and download times. The Switch 2 has much faster load times than the original Switch, which in turn tended to have faster load times than the Wii U. The internal storage loads faster than the SD Express cards which in turn load faster than the game cards, but all of the above load faster than optical discs.
 
Capcom resident evil director is honest. It's not about performance. It's not about development. It's about sales team and marketing.. so go rain hell on them

Square Enix guys is such a bullahit guy and lying to his teeth. Performance, SSD,, be more accepting. Fuck off you lying sack of shit .

Release your game on game key card and it will suffer In sales, some people will just not buy it and that will hurt no one but you as a company and Nintendo profit in general. Good luck bitches
 
Gambit2483 said:
tOIFjSE4YjR9H7Ee.gif


Unless the file size is larger than 64GB or "streaming issues", put it on a Physical card and charge ~$10 more
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This is what they mean by that cryptic response:

"I think we could miss opportunities if we didn't have that option, because there might be people who wouldn't be able to play the game otherwise...I think there are also advantages, and from a developer's perspective, it allows us to do things we might not otherwise do"


"It's not a development decision for us, it's more of a sales strategy decision."

They're essentially saying:

"We would have to make it more expensive and that would price out some people from playing the game. We also wouldn't be seeing that extra money paying for the cart so the lowered sales would mean we might not even do a Switch 2 port at all otherwise"
 
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The obvious answer seems to be to offer the games on a cart that then auto-copies the data that needs to be accessed faster to the internal storage. Pre-rendered cutscenes, music and other less essential stuff can be accessed from the cart to save on precious storage space. This would require no user interaction and would be automatic since we all know that Nintendo think their fan base compromise of pre-teenagers that might get 'scared' and need mummy or daddy's help if they have to anything more taxing that inserting a game cart into the Switch 2!

Luckily for me, I am not interested in playing third-party games on the Switch 2, only the first-party ones which so far are shipping on carts. The only reason buy a third-party game would be to play it in handheld mode but that is a no-no for me because the Switch 2's LCD screen is woefully lacklustre when compared to the Switch OLED's. Mine has been permanently docked since I set it up at launch, where I can at least enjoy *proper* HDR (but wouldn't VRR also be nice to have too?).
 
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blacktout said:
Huh? I think you're conflating load times and download times. The Switch 2 has much faster load times than the original Switch, which in turn tended to have faster load times than the Wii U. The internal storage loads faster than the SD Express cards which in turn load faster than the game cards, but all of the above load faster than optical discs.
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He's not. The cartidges have slow read speeds so developers suggest installing to internal memory especially with games that stream a lot of data.



This was kind of the case for Switch 1 too but the difference wasn't as large. ~14% vs 50%.

Unfortunately there is limited internal memory on the switch 2 too compared to game size so people don't like the fact that they need to install to get these shorter load times.
 
People are too quick to shit on sales teams. It's easy to act as if they are just money-grubbing bean counters who are denying gamers that perfect physical release in the name of profit.

If your sales team turns round and says that putting a game on a 64gb cartridge is going to absolutely murder your profit margin (which CDPR's honest sales team says is actually the case), then you aren't exactly going to do it then are you?

Blame the costliness of the underlying cartridge technology here, not the sales team. Because that is what's driving the decision making here.
 
asdasdasdbb said:
Publishers want to use the Key Card. Its cheaper.
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It makes me laugh how industry figures and high-ranking officials want to force us to use Keycards. I mentioned this to Phoenix Wright, Masakazu Sugimori, who defended Keycards, and I responded that we don't want that and that the industry isn't being saved by Nintendo, but by the consumer, who is the one who pays. Besides, the industry is stronger than ever... And he got mad at me 😆😆😆
 
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What a pathetic excuse Square has. They treat users as if we were fools. If CP 2077 has been put into a cartridge, everyone can do it. They just want to save costs with empty keycard cartridges that no one wants, and they have to do damage control.
 
blacktout said:
Huh? I think you're conflating load times and download times. The Switch 2 has much faster load times than the original Switch, which in turn tended to have faster load times than the Wii U. The internal storage loads faster than the SD Express cards which in turn load faster than the game cards, but all of the above load faster than optical discs.
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They were talking about Nintendo carts in the 90s and comparing it to today. Not having massive loading times on the N64 was a selling point in comparison to a ps1, they're commenting on how the situation has reversed. Cheers
 
Come on now, the real reason is to save money. Why they gotta lie about it?
If it was a performance issue (that didn't apply to games like Cyberpunk for some reason), then they could just have the data on the cart but require an install.
 
Horseganador said:
What a pathetic excuse Square has. They treat users as if we were fools. If CP 2077 has been put into a cartridge, everyone can do it. They just want to save costs with empty keycard cartridges that no one wants, and they have to do damage control.
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If the company put Yooka Laylee on a cartridge and it's a small company and they could do it... A mega company, no? 🧐

I would have easily bought 5 more games on switch 2.
 
awwr999999 said:
Gaming has 'evolved' wrong for decades and needs to be rethought.
Nintendo had instant gameplay across its platforms through N64 - instant load, instant respawn.
The fact that 20 years of technological advancements later Nintendo has massive load times is unacceptable.
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Nintendo doesn't have "massive load times", you mean read speeds, which still aren't slow on PS5, Switch 2, or Xbox at all.

This is about as stupid and uninformed as saying floppy drives are superior technology because they load faster than Blu-rays.
 
Three said:
He's not. The cartidges have slow read speeds so developers suggest installing to internal memory especially with games that stream a lot of data.



This was kind of the case for Switch 1 too but the difference wasn't as large. ~14% vs 50%.

Unfortunately there is limited internal memory on the switch 2 too compared to game size so people don't like the fact that they need to install to get these shorter load times.
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I don't know why people keep ignoring this, also didn't Ubisoft say the same thing regarding Star Wars Outlaws?

there's multiple factors at play here, the fact that the only options are a 64GB card which is slower and costs more vs. the game key card which is faster and costs less drives a lot of publishers to the latter and to write it off solely as greed by third parties is dumb

frankly I'd place the blame mostly on Nintendo between the cartridges being so slow & not offering more sizes like they did with Switch 1
 
Will people ask Phil Spencer every interview why he launches a handheld that offers no physical games? I admit it would be humerous if people would even bother to ask Sony why they don't just make all games available on 100gb cartridges on their coming handheld. The reality is that all that would just be taken as a given that its impossible to make a handheld that would have all games fully available on cartridges. Use that logic for every handheld.
 
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Turns out there's absolutely no reason to abandon physical. It's just barely selling compared to digital, more expensive to produce, and has inferior streaming speeds. No big deal.
 
Heimdall_Xtreme said:
It makes me laugh how industry figures and high-ranking officials want to force us to use Keycards. I mentioned this to Phoenix Wright creator Masakazu Sugimori, who defended Keycards, and I responded that we don't want that and that the industry isn't being saved by Nintendo, but by the consumer, who is the one who pays. Besides, the industry is stronger than ever... And he got mad at me 😆😆😆
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They want you to join the Adorably All Digital Future. The Key Cards are just to keep retailers interested.

That Nintendo doesn't offer enough space is an issue, but that's not the publisher's problem.
 
Its obvious now with the already announced all digital Xbox handheld and the soon to be announced all digital PS handheld that the whole GKC rage is an orchestrated attempt from PS/Xbox diehards to lessen the appeal of the Switch 2, spread by the same people that have all digital libraries on their consoles of choice. That campaign is failing and will continue to fail. The funny thing is that Nintendo first party games sell a ton more physically than PS/Xbox first party games, so if anyone is keeping physical sales alive its on the Nintendo ecosystem, their own favorite ecosystems have already graduated to 80-90 % digital sales.
 
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RoboFu said:
lol you guys still crying over the only digital/physical hybrid option that allows you to sell your digital games.
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You don't understand! Nintendo shouldn't have made a handheld that has every Nintendo game playable fully on cartridges while most third party games are GKC that they can sell after they've played it. They should have just made an all digital handheld like Xbox and PS is doing instead. /s
 
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Sephiran said:
Its obvious now with the already announced all digital Xbox handheld and the soon to be announced all digital PS handheld that the whole GKC rage is an orchestrated attempt from PS/Xbox diehards to lessen the appeal of the Switch 2, spread by the same people that have all digital libraries on their consoles of choice. That campaign is failing and will continue to fail. The funny thing is that Nintendo first party games sell a ton more physically than PS/Xbox first party games, so if anyone is keeping physical sales alive its on the Nintendo ecosystem, their own favorite ecosystems have already graduated to 80-90 % digital sales.
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The point of buying games is to play them. Not to turn it into a commodity.
 
That Capcom guy said it all. No need for three paragraphs of BS, it's not a development issue, it's simply publishers wanting that precious money. Except they won't have it if they keep making GKC.
 
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