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Carnivale: Season Finale Thread
- Thread starter trilobyte
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Sure hope so, on both accounts. 
I'll have to wait until tomorrow though, I'm getting the show off the 'net, it's not aired here in the Netherlands
On a related note, I bought the Season 1 Box set last friday. A bit steep at 70 Euros but it was worth it. I wish there was more (useful) commentary or other interesting extras, but the great audio more than makes up for it.
I'll have to wait until tomorrow though, I'm getting the show off the 'net, it's not aired here in the Netherlands
On a related note, I bought the Season 1 Box set last friday. A bit steep at 70 Euros but it was worth it. I wish there was more (useful) commentary or other interesting extras, but the great audio more than makes up for it.
I have absolutely no idea how the series could possibly continue, but Daniel Knauf said he had 6 seasons laid out in three pairs. So this season will finish the first pair and if there will be another season, it will be a new chapter in the Carnivale storyline (I think.)
Perhaps a longshot, but WW2 is an awfully tempting setting. It's a dramatic shift, but perhaps there's another evil avatar in Germany that needs a spanking
Perhaps a longshot, but WW2 is an awfully tempting setting. It's a dramatic shift, but perhaps there's another evil avatar in Germany that needs a spanking
Dan (the poster here, not Knauf) said in the other thread thatCrunchyB said:I have absolutely no idea how the series could possibly continue, but Daniel Knauf said he had 6 seasons laid out in three pairs. So this season will finish the first pair and if there will be another season, it will be a new chapter in the Carnivale storyline (I think.)
Perhaps a longshot, but WW2 is an awfully tempting setting. It's a dramatic shift, but perhaps there's another evil avatar in Germany that needs a spanking
the opening speech by Samson says that this is the last generation that have these powers. Samson says "that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason". This is probably the nuclear explosion that Sofie and Ben saw in the vision. Although it could mean Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the vision was showing the begining or usher of the end. I say this because many found out the true power of nuclear weapons at that moment.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
The ending pissed me off....
Sophie turns bad and kills Jonesy then brings Brother Justin back to life?
I guess that explains the whole Child of Darkness/Child of Light thing. Sopie is the child of darkness and the child she carries is the child of light. That's why she has those healing powers. My guess is that once the baby is born she won't have them any more.
The part where Ben is healing people and syphoning life from Justin was good though.
I guess that explains the whole Child of Darkness/Child of Light thing. Sopie is the child of darkness and the child she carries is the child of light. That's why she has those healing powers. My guess is that once the baby is born she won't have them any more.
The part where Ben is healing people and syphoning life from Justin was good though.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
JC10001 said:
I dont think she became healer until brother Justin died.
But we damn sure better get a 3rd season after this.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Brian Fellows said:
I think she has the healing powers because she is pregnant with Ben's kid.
I'm hoping Jonesy's not truly dead. Seems likely though. I really enjoyed his character from day one.
I'm very glad that Brother Justin isn't gone. I was worried for a minute, but he's such an important part of the entire show.
Poor Norman. He was really great too.
I thought the same thing about Sofie and her baby. We basically know that only Creatures of Light have the healing power, so it struck me that Sofie must have had that from the child inside her. Oh, and I know questions will be raised about the switching of the COD/COL stuff, especially since I used this in arguments early on in the season, but Knauf said in a chat recently that that's been more coincidence and isn't necessarily a rule, which explains Sophie. Then again, I believe he's stated a few times that only men were avatars, so he could be throwing out crap to confuse us.
You have to wonder where Justin, Iris and now Sofie will go. Justin's been revealed, so I don't think he'll have much of a religious following in the future, and with that probably goes his political connections. Then again, Justin's been quite the influential man. If anything, Ben might get himself a following.
I was a bit surprised that there was no further mention of Lodz and his cryptic remark about how he'd be returning in the flesh. I was expecting that might play a part in a cliffhanger. I guess that'll be saved for the future.
I'm very glad that Brother Justin isn't gone. I was worried for a minute, but he's such an important part of the entire show.
Poor Norman. He was really great too.
I thought the same thing about Sofie and her baby. We basically know that only Creatures of Light have the healing power, so it struck me that Sofie must have had that from the child inside her. Oh, and I know questions will be raised about the switching of the COD/COL stuff, especially since I used this in arguments early on in the season, but Knauf said in a chat recently that that's been more coincidence and isn't necessarily a rule, which explains Sophie. Then again, I believe he's stated a few times that only men were avatars, so he could be throwing out crap to confuse us.
You have to wonder where Justin, Iris and now Sofie will go. Justin's been revealed, so I don't think he'll have much of a religious following in the future, and with that probably goes his political connections. Then again, Justin's been quite the influential man. If anything, Ben might get himself a following.
I was a bit surprised that there was no further mention of Lodz and his cryptic remark about how he'd be returning in the flesh. I was expecting that might play a part in a cliffhanger. I guess that'll be saved for the future.
It's sucks that we'll be waiting at minimum a good year or so for another season, assuming it comes. I'm pretty confident we'll get it though, as I hear ratings have climbed throughout the season.
I'm going to have to rewatch this one real soon. There's quite a lot to think about, and a lot of subplots that are left hanging.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Sofie is the last prophet, the omega. She has pretty much all the power of Ben and Justin combined. I dont know if Ben killing Justin is what made her evil and if Justin had killed Ben would she have been good instead. But yeah, It's very possible she was slated to be evil all along (why else would her mom try to kill her?). Great show, great finale.
If more shows killed off two characters every year, we wouldnt have such stale, terrible, television.
(And Friends would have been off the air after it's third season, when it peaked)
If more shows killed off two characters every year, we wouldnt have such stale, terrible, television.
(And Friends would have been off the air after it's third season, when it peaked)
PRAYING for another season, although I was suprised season two got the go ahead.
I just saw it, pretty good episode all around. Nice to finally see the evil of Justin in full force.
It's going to be a long wait until next season. At least we can be fairly sure that there is a next season. Then again Fox did end John Doe on a huge cliffhanger, but that's Fox, not HBO
But then Ben stabs Justin between the branches. Cute, so there was an actual trick to it
Sophie taking a turn towards evil shouldn't be a total surprise. There are a ton of Justin/Sophie and Sophie/Usher links. Also, Sophie is the Omega (last letter in the greek alphabet) according to Lodz/Appolonia, which probably means that she's the last Apostle and/or Usher.
Also, Sophie can't really heal Justin, now can she? I thought Management made it clear that in order to restore life you need to take a human life first. Justin's not even a normal human being! And Ben did such a great job with the dagger and all...Another thing, the USHER OF DESTRUCTION tatoo was a big ugly smudge at the end, so I guess Justin's Ushering days are over.
But then again, Iris and Stroud, which are Justin's partners in crime, are still alive and kicking. Perhaps they'll buddy up with Sophie? And go and kill Ben???
Sucks that they killed off Jonesy. I really liked the character. But then I really liked Scudder and Lodz as well, Knauf seems to have a knack of killing my favorite characters. Speaking of which, I'm a bit surprised at the utter lack of Lodz this episode. I'll guess he'll go and h(a)unt Ben like not unlike he hunted Scudder before.
Sophie taking a turn towards evil shouldn't be a total surprise. There are a ton of Justin/Sophie and Sophie/Usher links. Also, Sophie is the Omega (last letter in the greek alphabet) according to Lodz/Appolonia, which probably means that she's the last Apostle and/or Usher.
Also, Sophie can't really heal Justin, now can she? I thought Management made it clear that in order to restore life you need to take a human life first. Justin's not even a normal human being! And Ben did such a great job with the dagger and all...Another thing, the USHER OF DESTRUCTION tatoo was a big ugly smudge at the end, so I guess Justin's Ushering days are over.
But then again, Iris and Stroud, which are Justin's partners in crime, are still alive and kicking. Perhaps they'll buddy up with Sophie? And go and kill Ben???
Sucks that they killed off Jonesy. I really liked the character. But then I really liked Scudder and Lodz as well, Knauf seems to have a knack of killing my favorite characters. Speaking of which, I'm a bit surprised at the utter lack of Lodz this episode. I'll guess he'll go and h(a)unt Ben like not unlike he hunted Scudder before.
It's going to be a long wait until next season. At least we can be fairly sure that there is a next season. Then again Fox did end John Doe on a huge cliffhanger, but that's Fox, not HBO
I guess
They better get at least one more season.
Ben is without a weapon now as his knife is lodged in Justin's (it still feels creepy to hear my name) chest. It was nice to see Clancy Brown in full Kurgan mode. And I think that while Sofie may have comitted evil acts she might have been only protecting her father, as Ben did. He killed Management to save his father, who was evil like Justin. And poor Jonesy and Norman If I was Jonesy I would have put a bullet in Varlan's head before entering the shack. Sadly unless Sofie feels guilty and brings Jonesy back, a great character is dead. Finally could Linda Hunt's voice be anymore annoying. This and the God of War commercial. Ugh
If I was Jonesy I would have put a bullet in Varlan's head before entering the shack. Sadly unless Sofie feels guilty and brings Jonesy back, a great character is dead. Finally could Linda Hunt's voice be anymore annoying. This and the God of War commercial. UghCrunchyB said:
Well, all signs point to Sofie being pregnant with Ben's child. She is showing the powers of both the Creature of Light and Creature of Darkness, so I'd say she's the latter and the future child is the former. After all, she's the Omega. Seems fitting.
HBO's episode summary makes it extremely clear that Sofie was indeed healing Justin. He's not out of the game yet. He obviously wasn't quite dead since it's acres of crops that are destroyed to restore his health.
HBO's episode summary makes it extremely clear that Sofie was indeed healing Justin. He's not out of the game yet. He obviously wasn't quite dead since it's acres of crops that are destroyed to restore his health.
Don't count Jonesy out yet. I went back and rewatched the final shot of him, and he's still breathing.
Er, why bring this up? Did Management even have a line in this episode?android said:
Regarding the dagger,
it wasn't embedded in Justin's chest when Sophie found him. Justin was dead quite dead at the time, Don't take my word for it,
check this link
I guess it's possible that Jonesy recovers, but that would be the second time he cheats death in just a few days. Seems unlikely to me. Plus, if Sophie raises Justin, she needs to take a life first. Jonesy is the only candidate, even though that was hours earlier. Assuming she even knew Justin was dead at the time. Guess we won't know either way for about a year or so, neat :|
check this link
I guess it's possible that Jonesy recovers, but that would be the second time he cheats death in just a few days. Seems unlikely to me. Plus, if Sophie raises Justin, she needs to take a life first. Jonesy is the only candidate, even though that was hours earlier. Assuming she even knew Justin was dead at the time. Guess we won't know either way for about a year or so, neat :|
I'm still not seeing proof.
Here are the facts:
Also...
Edit:
Here are the facts:
1. The corn dies as a direct result of Sofie touching Justin. From HBO's site: "She places her hands on Justin's body. Immediately, stalks of corn wither and fall away, row after row, acre after acre."
2. We know that a healing depends on transferring life (ie, from plants to a person, as seen a few times in the series).
3. Resurrecting a person requires the taking of a life, which we really don't see. When Ben killed Lodz to bring back Ruthie, she regained life immediately. Jonesy was shot at night after Justin and Ben fought and Sofie didn't find Justin until the next day.
Justin could not have been dead. He's not exactly human anyway. Given what we've been told in the previous 23 episodes, I'm not sure how to read this any other way. Sofie was clearly transferring the life of the corn fields to Justin.
2. We know that a healing depends on transferring life (ie, from plants to a person, as seen a few times in the series).
3. Resurrecting a person requires the taking of a life, which we really don't see. When Ben killed Lodz to bring back Ruthie, she regained life immediately. Jonesy was shot at night after Justin and Ben fought and Sofie didn't find Justin until the next day.
Justin could not have been dead. He's not exactly human anyway. Given what we've been told in the previous 23 episodes, I'm not sure how to read this any other way. Sofie was clearly transferring the life of the corn fields to Justin.
Also...
how can you not see the dagger in that picture? There's clearly a solid shiny (if bloodied) object sticking up out of his chest, right where Ben struck him.
Edit:
I just rewatched the part when the carnies pick up Ben, and well after he's been lifted you can clearly see Justin's chest heave. He wasn't dead.
Did you even watch the episode?Dan said:
Ben realizes he needs to stab Justin in the "dark heart" after remembering what Management said/showed to him at his death. It's the most pivotal part in the episode.
CrunchyB said:
The knife broke on Justin's chest leaving only the blade. The handle is gone. Ben stabs him with it and then shoves the blade right in saying "plunge thee deep" It's right inside him.
Yeah, yeah. I just rewatched it, I originally paid far more attention to the actual image than what was said there. I can't say that a few understated words from the one character really warranted complaining about the voice.android said:Did you even watch the episode?And that's what reminded me why Linda Hunt's voice annoys me.Ben realizes he needs to stab Justin in the "dark heart" after remembering what Management said/showed to him at his death. It's the most pivotal part in the episode.
CrunchyB said:
Now, maybe you're blind, but there's clearly a blade there:
http://www.FuckYouAndDie.com/pics/37647436.jpg
http://www.FuckYouAndDie.com/pics/37647436.jpg
Ecrofirt said:
Ok I guess the blade did break and got stuck in Justin. And the Usher tatoo is still there as well, there's just a lot of blue/black blood covering it. But I'm sure Justin is dead on that picture, just check the link on the HBO site:
http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/img/episode/season02/ep24_justin_dead.jpg
I mean, jeez, the file is called "ep24_justin_dead" and he even has his eyes open in that picture. Between this, the dagger plunged in his heart (as foretold) and his tree burning down, the guy is dead.
I agree that Sofie's healing would make perfect sense if Justin were alive, it's just that they made it quite clear that Justin was dead.
Knauf is a Bastard.
Sorry, but where do you see evidence that there is absolutely no life in him? A file name? Bah.
Sofie is touching Justin at the end. She's clearly transferring life from the corn. The series has repeatedly told us this is only possible when the subject is alive because resurrection has another set of rules. Oh, and Justin takes a blatant breath a few seconds after Ben has been completely lifted off his chest.
It doesn't seem complicated.
At most it seems possible or probable that the Usher has died but Justin went on living. He's managedo usher in the coming of Sofie's dark side, so the Usher is quite possibly not needed any more.
Sofie is touching Justin at the end. She's clearly transferring life from the corn. The series has repeatedly told us this is only possible when the subject is alive because resurrection has another set of rules. Oh, and Justin takes a blatant breath a few seconds after Ben has been completely lifted off his chest.
It doesn't seem complicated.
At most it seems possible or probable that the Usher has died but Justin went on living. He's managedo usher in the coming of Sofie's dark side, so the Usher is quite possibly not needed any more.
Justin's chest moved a bit when Ben was carried off. could be him breathing, but it's probably of no significance. His eyes were open, which is much, much more damning IMO.
Coupled with Ben following Management's directions, impaling Justin's heart with the anointed dagger and Justin's tree bursting into flame it should be obvious that Justin is dead.
And I trust the HBO Carnivale website. They have a lot of inside information, either they are purposefully misleading us, or Justin is truly dead.
I DO AGREE that this is immediately contradicted by Sofie's healing(?) Without it, Justin's death wouldn't even have been worthy of discussion. It sure looks like she's healing Justin but they just pointed out that he was truly dead!
I'm gnashing my teeth here.
I guess he could still be alive, but then they'd better give one hell of a good explanation, not even an avatar can live for hours with a dagger through his heart. Scudder and Management were tough, but not that tough.
Coupled with Ben following Management's directions, impaling Justin's heart with the anointed dagger and Justin's tree bursting into flame it should be obvious that Justin is dead.
And I trust the HBO Carnivale website. They have a lot of inside information, either they are purposefully misleading us, or Justin is truly dead.
I DO AGREE that this is immediately contradicted by Sofie's healing(?) Without it, Justin's death wouldn't even have been worthy of discussion. It sure looks like she's healing Justin but they just pointed out that he was truly dead!
I'm gnashing my teeth here.
I guess he could still be alive, but then they'd better give one hell of a good explanation, not even an avatar can live for hours with a dagger through his heart. Scudder and Management were tough, but not that tough.
Well, we didn't get to see what Scudder could live through. His head was chopped clean off. Management lived for 15 years after losing three limbs to a bear and still had enough strength to launch himself across a room and attack Scudder.
If there's anything the tree symbolized it was the Usher. We've known this since at least the second season premiere. I really don't believe Justin ever died. All the tree burning and the maiming of Justin's tatoo points to the death of the Usher of Destruction. I fully suspect that the uh, subject position of the Usher is dead, since he has seemingly, albeit indirectly, actualized the Omega (Sofie), and I think it's safe to guess from her title that she'll be the end of it all (relative armageddon), which leads me to think that not only is the Usher gone, but he/it was successful too.
The dagger is also not through Justin's heart. It's through the tree, just about exactly in the center of his chest and quite a bit lower than where his heart would be, further supporting a claim that the Usher died and Justin did not. Just look at this image to see that where the dagger went in is not his heart, and plainly not necessarily fatal to a normal human, let alone a demon.
Those are my thoughts.
If there's anything the tree symbolized it was the Usher. We've known this since at least the second season premiere. I really don't believe Justin ever died. All the tree burning and the maiming of Justin's tatoo points to the death of the Usher of Destruction. I fully suspect that the uh, subject position of the Usher is dead, since he has seemingly, albeit indirectly, actualized the Omega (Sofie), and I think it's safe to guess from her title that she'll be the end of it all (relative armageddon), which leads me to think that not only is the Usher gone, but he/it was successful too.
The dagger is also not through Justin's heart. It's through the tree, just about exactly in the center of his chest and quite a bit lower than where his heart would be, further supporting a claim that the Usher died and Justin did not. Just look at this image to see that where the dagger went in is not his heart, and plainly not necessarily fatal to a normal human, let alone a demon.
Those are my thoughts.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I agree that the usher's job is done.
How Sofie directly or indirectly leads to the creation of the bomb and the election of FDR will be seen in Season 3 and 4.
How Sofie directly or indirectly leads to the creation of the bomb and the election of FDR will be seen in Season 3 and 4.
Great Wasabi Man
Member
true...managment doesn't say stab him in the heart but where the branches meet...they even flash back to that part in the last episode. It was the ushers weak point, hence the first time Ben tried to stab justin the dagger broke.
Now as it's was seen in the Last episode (numberous times)...2 episodes before it with Jonesy, and countless other times before a preson doesn't have to be dead to be healed. It could go either way that justin was dead or mamed...at this point ti doesn't matter since he's alive now or being tunrd into a gaint ear of corn. the usher has been defeated...dead? who knows I didn't write the show. For all we know is now Sophie is the Usher, or sophie is what the usher was...umm ushering.
I really hope theres a season 3, I read the HBO boards and heard everything form no way HBO is done with this series to it's already been filmed and it's the last season to they won't know if they got the green light till June.
there's a difference between being mauled by a bear and losing ones head.
Jonesy wasn't dead yet amd he took the mother's life to save the kid. When healing Ben always took lesser lifeforms (The field for the crippled girl, the fish for Gabriel's arm, vultures for Jonesy) and full equal human lives for resurection (Lodz for Ruthie, the mother for the kid) I think the above proves that Justin was dying but wasn't yet dead. If he was Iris or someone nearby would have died rather then the corn.Lil' Dice said:
But I don't think Justin breathing means anything because Clancy Brown is human and needs to breathe.
android said:Jonesy wasn't dead yet amd he took the mother's life to save the kid. When healing Ben always took lesser lifeforms (The field for the crippled girl, the fish for Gabriel's arm, vultures for Jonesy) and full equal human lives for resurection (Lodz for Ruthie, the mother for the kid) I think the above proves that Justin was dying but wasn't yet dead. If he was Iris or someone nearby would have died rather then the corn.
But I don't think Justin breathing means anything because Clancy Brown is human and needs to breathe.
After he took care of managemet he seemed able to resurrect the dead. Jonesy was dead in the desert, i watched the episode twice, and you can see him take his last breath before Ben decides to se his powers. Also the kid in the fair was clearly dead, both cases were clear examples that Ben's powers had been upgraded after he killed management.
Lil' Dice said:
But Ruthie was clearly dead, and he need Lodz's life to resurect her. Management appearently set that up to show him how to resurect the dead. He said that a life must be taken for one to be given. Ben said he didn't wish to have to do this and Management told him it was the way they did it. Ben had this power well before he killed management.
Edit:
Heres what Hbo's site says Management said about resurection
http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/episode/season1/episode12.shtml
android said:
The thing is that he had to kill him directly. Before he seemed unable to channel his power when taking someone's life. Like in the fair, it was populated by hundreds of patrons but he wa able to channel
Justin's
Either way, i think we clearly established that both
Sophie
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Who cares, is all I have to say.
In my opinion, Brother Justin was dying, not dead. I thought that was point of the cornfield bit. Even if he was dead, he's not anymore.
Sofie took Jonesy's life, theres the tradeoff if he was dead. If he wasnt dead, then the corn, whatever.
Also, all we know now is how Ben brings someone back, we dont know anything about Sofie's new power
Sofie took Jonesy's life, theres the tradeoff if he was dead. If he wasnt dead, then the corn, whatever.
Also, all we know now is how Ben brings someone back, we dont know anything about Sofie's new power
Dan said:
Ok, that makes some sense. The Usher is dead but Justin clings to life until Sofie heals him. Justin will probably be too weak to go after Ben himself, he might even still have the dagger firmly embedded in his chest.
Still, that begs the question, what is Justin going to do next Season? Coach Sofie?
Honestly, that's what I'm excited about most. I'm excited to see Brother Justin be put in a situation where he is no longer top dog, where he's weaker and more than a little unsure of his role. I think it'll be fun to see him get knocked down a notch, especially if he's surrounded by strong women like Sofie and Iris. He'll still be a Creature of Darkness, so he won't be powerless by any means, but Sofie clearly has the abilities of both Houses and he's lost much of what he had.CrunchyB said:
Huh, what are you talking about? Ruthie was dead. The ONLY way she could be brought back to life was for Ben to kill someone else. There was no way around that, regardless of how developed Ben's powers were. The show has repeatedly went out of its way to show that there is a big difference between mere healing and resurrection. Ben has only resurrected two people: Ruthie and the young boy. Everyone else was merely healed. The situation of Ben healing the migrants while hurting Justin was completely different from when he killed Lodz to resurrect Ruthie. Android's correct about this.Lil' Dice said:
I think that this show second season really got to me. I caught the last 4-5 episodes of the season. And i'm catching up by watching the rest on HBOonDemand and i have to say this season is kicking all sorts of ass.
I cant wait for the next season. I really wonder how they are going to pursue the rest of this season.
I cant wait for the next season. I really wonder how they are going to pursue the rest of this season.
Dan said:
Are you arguing just for the sake of argument? I never said that he could resurrect without having to take a life, just that his ability to channel his powers matured after he killed management, he HAD to kill the creature of light to increase his powers. I simply pointed out someone's fallacy about Ben not being able to resurrect the dead. Which he did, thrice in the later episodes.
Shit. Can't read the Variety article though.
http://aint-it-cool.com/display.cgi?id=19777
http://aint-it-cool.com/display.cgi?id=19777
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Well you guys all seem to be arguing about whether he was dead or not, but that one's not going to be a problem. Easy to explain away next season (if there is one), just make it clear Justin was hanging on to his last shreds of life with all the will he had.
What's pissing me off more is the turn around in the seemingly clear signs that the light and dark sides swap each generation. I know Dan said:
"Knauf said in a chat recently that that's been more coincidence and isn't necessarily a rule, which explains Sophie. Then again, I believe he's stated a few times that only men were avatars, so he could be throwing out crap to confuse us."
but frankly, that strikes me more as a creator changing the plot to fit his ideas than having been that way all along. I can't prove that, and I guess it wouldn't matter even if I did, but Dan's arguments were really, really strong.
I hope they don't leave the explanation as "Oh it was coincidence in the past". There are better ways to go about things. Such as:
- Sophie's the first female avatar, this has caused the switch.
- Sophie has both sets of powers as she's the omega (this one they probably can't do unless the story's going that way).
- Sophie is actually light, it's the child inside her that's dark. She's being pulled both ways.
I personally like the last one most. I saw people above mention the idea that her and Ben's child is good, though I'm not sure why no one suggested what I just have (unless someone did, sorry if I missed it), which seems to make more sense.
I hope the show carries on. If nothing else I want Ben to show more powers. They focus waaaay too much on his healing powers to my mind, when we know he can do so much more (Management turned invisible for a start, I seem to remember Ben controlling the weather once too). I also want the bear explained.
What's pissing me off more is the turn around in the seemingly clear signs that the light and dark sides swap each generation. I know Dan said:
"Knauf said in a chat recently that that's been more coincidence and isn't necessarily a rule, which explains Sophie. Then again, I believe he's stated a few times that only men were avatars, so he could be throwing out crap to confuse us."
but frankly, that strikes me more as a creator changing the plot to fit his ideas than having been that way all along. I can't prove that, and I guess it wouldn't matter even if I did, but Dan's arguments were really, really strong.
I hope they don't leave the explanation as "Oh it was coincidence in the past". There are better ways to go about things. Such as:
- Sophie's the first female avatar, this has caused the switch.
- Sophie has both sets of powers as she's the omega (this one they probably can't do unless the story's going that way).
- Sophie is actually light, it's the child inside her that's dark. She's being pulled both ways.
I personally like the last one most. I saw people above mention the idea that her and Ben's child is good, though I'm not sure why no one suggested what I just have (unless someone did, sorry if I missed it), which seems to make more sense.
I hope the show carries on. If nothing else I want Ben to show more powers. They focus waaaay too much on his healing powers to my mind, when we know he can do so much more (Management turned invisible for a start, I seem to remember Ben controlling the weather once too). I also want the bear explained.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
android said:
Well they did make The Wire wait like 3 months before picking it up for a fourth season.
Also go fill this out.....IF YOU DARE!
http://www.hbosurveys.com/surveys/carnivale05.htm
Daniel Knauf may be working on a comedy show for Showtime, but that doesn't mean Carnivale can't continue. There are plenty of creators juggling far more shows than that. Besides, it's not like Carnivale's in production constantly. He might not even need to deal much with both shows at the same time.
Also, HBO has until June to make a decision on a third season.
I've been meaning to respond to Mama Smurf's post for a while, as there are some good ideas there, but I need to find the time to write out a thoughtful response. I'll get to it soon.
Also, HBO has until June to make a decision on a third season.
I've been meaning to respond to Mama Smurf's post for a while, as there are some good ideas there, but I need to find the time to write out a thoughtful response. I'll get to it soon.
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