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[old manatee]

I pinned all of my hope on this thing after that horrible Trek film last summer, but so far it's pretty much all red flags. I'm definitely not signing up for some godforsaken CBS streaming service to see it if they are this concerned about reviews.

 

[Morat]

Is this like when games that the publisher knows is shit get review embargoes?

 

[caliph95]

Yeah that is usually not a good sign

 

[bastardly]

well the first ep is free, so no cost to decide if your hopes and dreams are shattered or not.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I pinned all of my hope on this thing after that horrible Trek film last summer

Beyond is a really, really fucking good Trek movie.

What about it didn't work for you?

 

[Rockandrollclown]

I lost interest once Fuller was removed anyway.

 

[Effect]

Fuller was going to make an anthology show that hopped ships, eras, and stuck closely to the visual aesthetic of those eras as established by the existing films/tv shows.

It would have cost more, though.

So they chucked him and basically handed everything over to Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman, who installed new showrunners and set about making a Kelvin-verse prequel in everything but name.

Which looks great! Those uniforms are really fuckin' good.

But this is not a great development.

Aren't the new show runners Fuller's own people he has worked with in the past? That's what I remember reading and that they didn't take over until he was cool with it.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Are there examples of networks doing this for good TV shows?

Because this sounds worrying.

Twin Peaks on Showtime.

 

[Syriel]

$40 for a sub to CBS All Access v. $10-$12 for a film? You're describing a barrier to entry, not a cost. And I think it kinda blows that Trek fans will have to wait three+ weeks before it becomes clear whether or not they should pay to watch the new show.

Only in the US. Rest of the world gets it via Netflix.

 

[old manatee]

Only in the US. Rest of the world gets it via Netflix.

Damn I didn't know that. Fuck their service then. I'll hold out for Netflix.

 

[Nesotenso]

wasn't this sent to die on some online streaming service?

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Because the vocal minority is the loudest on the internet. That's not the word of mouth you want.

There's also a loud contingent of ST fans that already resent the show and will probably not give it a fair chance due to Paramount's handling of the various fan-made Trek projects. Early reviews could suffer due to their "Fuck Paramount" agenda. The show might actually just suck but I could see why they would do this.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Aren't the new show runners Fuller's own people he has worked with in the past?

He's worked with em, yeah.

But apparently Goldsman/Kurtzman are basically steering that ship. they aren't just Exec Producers in name only. They're contributing. The current showrunners are basically trying to execute that vision as best as possible.

It's not like Fuller is going to tell them "Hey. Pass up on this paycheck." He's gonna give 'em his blessing because it's a good job and its good money and might as well stick it out.

 

[Walshicus]

Fuller was going to make an anthology show that hopped ships, eras, and stuck closely to the visual aesthetic of those eras as established by the existing films/tv shows.

It would have cost more, though.

So they chucked him and basically handed everything over to Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman, who installed new showrunners and set about making a Kelvin-verse prequel in everything but name.

Which looks great! Those uniforms are really fuckin' good.

But this is not a great development.

I don't believe this is actually true.

 

[Toa TAK]

Guys,

What do we need to do to stop Kurtzman's reign of terror?

 

[kevin1025]

Guys,

What do we need to do to stop Kurtzman's reign of terror?

The Mummy was our only shot. If that doesn't stop him, nothing will!

 

[Agent_Carnage]

Not a good sign.

ABANDON SHIP! TO THE ESCAPE PODS

 

[Morts]

Well the cost of entry for this particular program is pretty fucking high.

$6?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I don't believe this is actually true.

It is.

(There were, of course, other complications, including scheduling & availability, but basically - what he pitched got him in the door and then they started telling him what he pitched wouldn't work and they fired him)

 

[Effect]

Saying "won't allow any reviews" sounds like they're not showing anyone the show before the first episode airs on CBS. That doesn't sound like the case at all in the article itself. The reviews are just embargoed if you want to see it. If they weren't allowing anyone to see anything then that would be even more concerning.

Maybe CBS just wants people to form their own opinion of the show (for good or bad) when the first episode aires on CBS proper before reviews drop. As long can pull the channel they can see it. There is no money up front here, at least in the US for the first episode. However everything about this production has been on lockdown with CBS releasing only what they want people to see. It's not surprising that would extend to the reviews as well. This whole thing is being super controlled from top to bottom it seems.

 

[The Elite]

Reviewing TV shows out of the gate is always a bit of a problem for me. I remember reviewing Spartacus from Starz and not being too kind to the first episode at all. I cited that it felt like a tired ripoff of 300 that lacked any sort of originality and wasn't impressed by Andy Whitfield's performance.

The show ended up being one of my favourites by the time it was all over.

It's good there are reviews for TV shows but I think people need to realise that the first hour or two isn't always indicative of the whole body of work. If a show gets panned out of the gate I might skip it but I will always keep my ear to the ground in hopes that it might get better as the season progresses.

There were embargoes on some reviews but that was usually content related. We weren't allowed to talk about certain elements before airtime to avoid spoilers. I don't recall being told that I could not post anything until after a show aired.

 

[jchap]

Remember people: Star Treks always start bad

 

[Grizzlyjin]

People will eat this up regardless, so I'm not sure what they're worried about. The Orville is creatively bankrupt and people were saying it was okay. This will do fine without embargo shenanigans.

 

[Sephzilla]

Remember people: Star Treks always start bad

This is actually a very very good point.

There hasn't been a single Star Trek series that hasn't started out rough

 

[The Elite]

That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.jpg

I still check out Aint it Cool every so often. I went to Dark Horizons the other day and was shocked it was still around. I remember when that was a group of Geocities sites stitched together.

 

[Toa TAK]

The Mummy was our only shot. If that doesn't stop him, nothing will!

How can a man who consistently delivers on nothing continue to move up?

That's like if I failed all my tests in my class but my professor still hands me a C to move up.

 

[NYR]

Only in the US. Rest of the world gets it via Netflix.

Nope. Canada is airing it on the Space Channel, it won't be on Netflix.

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/19/star-trek-netflix-canada_n_11070704.html

 

[firehawk12]

Remember people: Star Treks always start bad

It's 2017, not 1966 or even 1987. I don't think you get to fuck up a pilot when there are thousands of choices competing against you, you're banking on people paying monthly to watch your show, and quite frankly, everyone on your team should be firing on all cylinders.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

i guess it's another DS9

 

[The Elite]

It's 2017, not 1966 or even 1987. I don't think you get to fuck up a pilot when there are thousands of choices competing against you, you're banking on people paying monthly to watch your show, and quite frankly, everyone on your team should be firing on all cylinders.

I agree. The only room they really have is that there isn't much in the way of competition in the space exploration TV market. The only other competitive show might be The Expanse for mind share. People are hungry for this sort of content - especially trek.

 

[TheXbox]

$6?

No, not for the whole season. Someone on reddit literally did the math, min-maxing air dates with sub costs/cancellations between breaks, and the absolute cheapest way to watch an entire season of Discovery is $24. That's with commercials. Without commercials, it's $40.

The point is that the buy-in is expensive enough to give most people pause, on top of the hastle involved in subscribing/unsubscribing at regular intervals. I don't understand how CBS expects people to go for it, especially when they won't allow early screenings for critics.

 

[A Serious Man]

i guess it's another DS9

We're not that lucky.

 

[Boem]

This is actually a very very good point.

There hasn't been a single Star Trek series that hasn't started out rough

Honest question from someone who's just getting into Star Trek and going through the Original Series now (slowly): does that mean it should still be the case? TV is going very strong in the last couple of years, with relatively big budget tv shows being able to still be very author driven.

Also, even if all the Star Trek series started rough, did they also all end up improving later in their run? Again, I've only seen the first original Trek season (although I've heard opinions that it's actually downhill after that first one, but I'll see), but I have heard that, for example, Enterprise never really improves.

I don't think it's smart to just accept that all shows just start rough and automatically get better. A lot of shows do once they find their groove, sure, but the talent who could make sure this is good to great right out of the gate is definitely available these days.

 

[Ashodin]

I wonder if the Orville effect is true

 

[SlipperyFishes]

It's fair but its also a two edged sword.

They want old-Trek fans (and nu-Trek fans) to go into this fresh with no predefined expectations based on the reviews.

Reviewers who dislike JJ Trek will likely find little here to write home about whereas new Trek folks will likely rave to some degree. Fans will be split between both so why not just let all watchers go in with a fresh mindset?

 

[The Elite]

I wonder if the Orville effect is true

I think audiences interested in Star Trek will not be fazed by the Orville. The only thing about the Orville is how close it gets 90s trek aesthetically. It's kind of jarring considering how silly it wants to be. The show feels like actors trying to make a serious show but instead of using their good takes we are getting blooper reel fodder.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Is this bad news or is CBS really sensitive about launching this property or both? Yikes.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

It's 2017, not 1966 or even 1987. I don't think you get to fuck up a pilot when there are thousands of choices competing against you, you're banking on people paying monthly to watch your show, and quite frankly, everyone on your team should be firing on all cylinders.

Yep. Brand name really aint gonna cut it anymore

 

[ReAxion]

i'm glad Rotten Tomatoes killed it.

 

[QuantumZebra]

It's fair but its also a two edged sword.

They want old-Trek fans (and nu-Trek fans) to go into this fresh with no predefined expectations based on the reviews.

Reviewers who dislike JJ Trek will likely find little here to write home about whereas new Trek folks will likely rave to some degree. Fans will be split between both so why not just let all watchers go in with a fresh mindset?

This is probably the most optimistic take, and one I hope is true. I'm a late-blooming Star Trek fan (Star Wars in my blood), but I'd like to hop on the train.

 

[DrForester]

It can't be worse than Enterprise.

 

[BorkBork]

It can't be worse than Enterprise.

Challenge accepted?

No you're right, it probably can't. But the TV landscape's way less forgiving these days.

 

[Effect]

Is this bad news or is CBS really sensitive about launching this property or both? Yikes.

I think at this point we can only assume CBS is extremely sensitive. They've been tight lip and controlling about everything since that one behind the scene photo about the klingons in makeup leaked I think. They perhaps went overboard.

I can only comment on the scene clips they've released and I've liked them. I don't use trailers as judgement because they're usually so cut up.

While I haven't seen anything that makes me think this is going to be amazing I certainly haven't see anything that makes me think this will be bad. I like how it looks visually so I have nothing on that front acting as a negative like some people. I don't get offended that Spock has another sibling, one that isn't even blood related. On that front I do think CBS knows how some might act no matter what. There are a group of people that don't want this to exist simply because it doesn't look like 60s Trek. Doesn't matter about story content, acting, etc. There are those that don't want this to exist because it doesn't mimic 90s Trek. Etc There are a lot things at play here.

 

[The Elite]

It can't be worse than Enterprise.

Season four though.

 

[Tookay]

They really want people jumping in on All Access sight-unseen.

 

[Morts]

No, not for the whole season. Someone on reddit literally did the math, min-maxing air dates with sub costs/cancellations between breaks, and the absolute cheapest way to watch an entire season of Discovery is $24. That's with commercials. Without commercials, it's $40.

The point is that the buy-in is expensive enough to give most people pause, on top of the hastle involved in subscribing/unsubscribing at regular intervals. I don't understand how CBS expects people to go for it, especially when they won't allow early screenings for critics.

If we're talking cost of entry $6 is all you need to see if the show is any good and worth paying more for. That's assuming rightfully you need more than the first hour to judge, which is on broadcast TV.

 

[firehawk12]

I agree. The only room they really have is that there isn't much in the way of competition in the space exploration TV market. The only other competitive show might be The Expanse for mind share. People are hungry for this sort of content - especially trek.

I STILL think I'm more likely to enjoy Orville than Discovery. lol
Dark Matter just got cancelled, but there's still Killjoys. There was a bit of a mini Canadian space block on SyFy for a couple of years, funny enough. Although now they seem to be doubling down on stuff like Wyonna Earp.

Challenge accepted?

They really should have doubled down and used a Taylor Swift song for the intro or something.

 

[Boem]

No, not for the whole season. Someone on reddit literally did the math, min-maxing air dates with sub costs/cancellations between breaks, and the absolute cheapest way to watch an entire season of Discovery is $24. That's with commercials. Without commercials, it's $40.

The point is that the buy-in is expensive enough to give most people pause, on top of the hastle involved in subscribing/unsubscribing at regular intervals. I don't understand how CBS expects people to go for it, especially when they won't allow early screenings for critics.

I can see the American situation not being ideal (especially bothersome since the primary potential audience would be in the US I think), but internationally it's heavily promoted as a part of Netflix. Given Netflix's attachment rate I think they're going to do very well there - they've been promoting everywhere, and all of the old shows (and all the movies I think, not 100% sure on that one) are there, which got quite a lot of attention as well. It'll be an easy gamble to check out for everyone not in the US at least.

 

[The Elite]

I STILL think I'm more likely to enjoy Orville than Discovery. lol
Dark Matter just got cancelled, but there's still Killjoys. There was a bit of a mini Canadian space block on SyFy for a couple of years, funny enough. Although now they seem to be doubling down on stuff like Wyonna Earp.

Every time I flip to Space I see Castle re-runs.

Fucking Castle.

At least they still play a ton of Stargate SG-1.

 

[Fuchsdh]

This is actually a very very good point.

There hasn't been a single Star Trek series that hasn't started out rough

The problem being that in today's television environment you can't start bad. Far less slack available.