CELL PROCESSOR AND PS3 details

We'll see I guess. I'd love for them to get down to 65nm for PS3, but we'll see.

Is there anywhere I can read about and track the history of Cell-related developments, specifically its manufacturing? There should really be one place on the web collecting all this stuff (I'd do it, if no one else was).

Also, a question for Pana: the exact "Power" chip that will be used in Cell is still unknown. Considering that it may "only" be used for coordinating APUs, splitting up tasks etc. and not for running general code, might that make it more likely that they have chosen an older PowerPC core, that could be clocked up to 4.6Ghz at 90nm? Given that apparently they're having trouble breaking the 4Ghz barrier with the latest PowerPC chips at 90nm?
 
gofreak said:
We'll see I guess. I'd love for them to get down to 65nm for PS3, but we'll see.

Is there anywhere I can read about and track the history of Cell-related developments, specifically its manufacturing? There should really be one place on the web collecting all this stuff (I'd do it, if no one else was).

Also, a question for Pana: the exact "Power" chip that will be used in Cell is still unknown. Considering that it may "only" be used for coordinating APUs, splitting up tasks etc. and not for running general code, might that make it more likely that they have chosen an older PowerPC core, that could be clocked up to 4.6Ghz at 90nm? Given that apparently they're having trouble breaking the 4Ghz barrier with the latest PowerPC chips at 90nm?

Likely it is a custom designed PowerPC core with no real major relations to POWER5 or PowerPC 970: probably a dual-issue processor with Multi-Threading capabilities and good cache hierarchy.
 
Panajev2001a said:
Likely it is a custom designed PowerPC core with no real major relations to POWER5 or PowerPC 970: probably a dual-issue processor with Multi-Threading capabilities and good cache hierarchy.

Interesting..presumably some sacrifices might have to be made somewhere relative to the latest Power cores, if they're breaking 4Ghz though, right? But it won't matter, as long as they're powerful enough to keep the APUs busy?

Also, the PU has to be clocked at the same rate as the APUs? Or to put it another way, the PU clock determines the APU speed?

(sorry for all the questions)
 
Over on the Gamers radar forum one of the posters works for IBM. I don’t know in what capacity or anything else. But he states that they are laughing at the details Sony is releasing. Me I don't understand one technical detail regarding cell or any other processor what I do suspect though that the difference between he next gen machines will be marginal in the extreme and in terms of what you see on screen non existent.
 
Pug said:
I do suspect though that the difference between he next gen machines will be marginal in the extreme and in terms of what you see on screen non existent.

Until we hit photorealism, I doubt this will be true. The human eye is very discerning, and we will magnify even the tiniest of flaws or differences.

The same thing was also said last generation..
 
Over on the Gamers radar forum one of the posters works for IBM. I don’t know in what capacity or anything else. But he states that they are laughing at the details Sony is releasing.

Considering this stuff is being presented at a technical conference you'd think IBM would know what they are saying. IBM isn't one to let their name be attached to anything without knowing what's being said about it.
 
Pug said:
Over on the Gamers radar forum one of the posters works for IBM. I don’t know in what capacity or anything else. But he states that they are laughing at the details Sony is releasing.

Unless he works for the STI division or he is a higher-up... well I wonder what he really knows (since I remember talking to IBM guys a while ago when I worked at IOL and they barely knew about the STI center in Austin, TX and other anedoctes)... he might know stuff or he might not...
 
Gofreak there maybe cosmetic differences yes, but arguments about which game looks better will be down to artistic style rather than how many Polygons, bumpmapping and other features the game is pushing. On this front no machine will have a particular advantage over another.
 
Pug said:
Gofreak there maybe cosmetic differences yes, but arguments about which game looks better will be down to artistic style rather than how many Polygons, bumpmapping and other features the game is pushing. On this front no machine will have a particular advantage over another.

Sorry, I think I misread your post initially (my fault, not yours, my head is all over the place).

I mean to say - it is not the case that if one console came out and was significantly more powerful than the other, that we wouldn't necessarily see any difference between them. One console may have to be a certain magnitude more powerful before you see a difference, and I guess the question then is - will one system have enough extra power over other systems to allow a visual difference to manifest itself? If there's a gap of 6 months or more, or if Cell actually delivers, I don't think it's unlikely that we'll see a paper gap, technically. Whether its enough to see a visual difference, we'll see..
 
Code:
japanese art >>> western art

Or not as the case maybe. Whatever, you have hit the nail on the head teiresias. I love "art" arguments especially as I'm an R&D Scientist by trade I find it all very amusing.
 
Cheers Fredi - These were the relevant bits that I could see..I don't know if any of this is new since Monday:

10.2 The Design and Implementation of a First-Generation
CELL Processor

9:00 AM
D. Pham1, S.Asano2,M. Bolliger1, M. Day1 , H. Hofstee1, C. Johns1 , J. Kahle1 ,
A. Kameyama3 , J. Keaty1,Y. Masubuchi2, M. Riley1, D. Shippy1, D. Stasiak1 ,
M.Wang1 , J.Warnock1, S.Weitzel1, D.Wendel1 , T.Yamazaki1 , K.Yazawa2
1IBM, Austin, TX
2Sony, Tokyo, Japan
3Toshiba, Austin, TX
A CELL Processor is a multi-core chip consisting of a 64b Power
architecture processor, multiple streaming processors, a flexible IO
interface, and a memory interface controller. This SoC is implemented in
90nm SOI technology. The chip is designed with a high degree of
modularity and reuse to maximize the custom circuit content and achieve
a high-frequency clock-rate.


7.4 A Streaming Processing Unit for a CELL Processor

3:15 PM
B. Flachs1, S. Asano2, S. Dhong1, P. Hofstee1, G. Gervais1, R. Kim1 , T. Le1 ,
P. Liu1, J. Leenstra3, J. Liberty1, B. Michael, S. Mueller3, O. Takahashi1 ,
Y.Watanabe2 , A. Hatakeyama4,H. Oh1, N.Yano2
1IBM, Austin, TX
2Toshiba, Austin, TX
3IBM, Boeblingen, Germany
4Sony, Austin, TX
The design of a 4-way SIMD streaming data processor emphasizes
achievable performance in area and power. Software controls data
movement and instruction flow, and improves data bandwidth and pipeline
utilization. The micro-architecture minimizes instruction latency and
provides fine-grain clock control to reduce power.


20.3 A Double-Precision Multiplier with Fine-Grained Clock-
Gating Support for a First-Generation CELL Processor

9:30 AM
J. Kuang1, T. Buchholtz2, S. Dance2 , J. Warnock3, S. Storino2, D. Wendel4
1IBM, Austin, TX
2IBM, Rochester, MN
3IBM, Yorktown Heights, NY
4IBM, Böblingen, Germany
A double-precision multiplier for a 90nm SOI CELL processor is
presented. Dynamic Booth logic is designed for scalability and with noise,
leakage, and pulse-width variation tolerance. Static partial-product
compression is implemented with replicated bits for performance. The
design supports fine-grained clock gating domains for active power reduction.


26.7 A 4.8GHz Fully Pipelined Embedded SRAM in the
Streaming Processor of a CELL Processor

4:15 PM
T. Asano1, T. Nakazato2, S. Dhong3, A. Kawasumi2, J. Silberman4,
O. Takahashi3, M. White3, H.Yoshihara5
1IBM, Yasu, Japan
2Toshiba, Austin, TX
3IBM, Austin, TX
4IBM, Yorktown Heights, NY
5Sony, Austin, TX
A 6-stage fully pipelined embedded SRAM is implemented in a 90nm SOI
technology. The array uses a conventional 6-transistor memory cell and
sense amplifier to achieve the cycle time while minimizing the impact of
device variation. A sum-addressed pre-decoder allows partial activation for
power savings.


28.9 Clocking and Circuit Design for a Parallel I/O on a First-
Generation CELL Processor

4:45 PM
K. Chang1, S. Pamarti1, K. Kaviani1, E. Alon1,2, X. Shi1, T. Chin1, J. Shen1,
G.Yip1, C. Madden1, R. Schmitt1, C.Yuan1, F. Assaderaghi1, M. Horowitz1,2
1Rambus, Los Altos, CA
2Stanford University, Stanford, CA
A parallel I/O is integrated on a first-generation CELL processor in 90nm SOI
CMOS. A clock-tracking architecture suppresses reference jitter to achieve
6.4Gb/s/link operation at 21.6mW/Gb/s. SOI effects on analog circuits, in particular
high-speed receivers, are addressed to achieve a receiver sensitivity of
±12mV at 6.4Gb/s with BER <10-14 measured using 7b PRBS data.

edit - this might also be relevant (?):


20.1 An 8GHz Floating Point Multiply

8:30 AM
W. Belluomini, D. Jamsek, A. Martin, C. McDowell, R. Montoye,
T. Nguyen, H. Ngo, J. Sawada, I. Vo, R. Datta
IBM, Austin, TX
The implementation of the mantissa portion of a floating-point multiply
(54x54b) is described. The 0.124mm2 multiplier is implemented using
limited switch dynamic logic and operates at speeds up to 8GHz in a 90nm
SOI technology. The multiplier dissipates between 150mW and 1.8W as it
scales between 2GHz and 8GHz.
 
How long after a conference does it take for the proceedings to generally show up on IEEExplorer?? Or is there another way, outside of buying a copy of the proceedings, to read the papers?
 
teiresias said:
How long after a conference does it take for the proceedings to generally show up on IEEExplorer?? Or is there another way, outside of buying a copy of the proceedings, to read the papers?

They usually show up on the organisations website..

..but I *think* that usually happens during or after the conference. The authors of the papers are free to publish them seperately beforehand (like on their own website), if they so wish (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Somehow I doubt Sony/IBM/Toshiba will, though..

edit - I actually just read that the ISSCC prohibits companies from disclosing details of their papers before the conference. So unless things have changed, you won't see them before Feb 6. Hopefully they'll go online during the conference, though.
 
Top Bottom