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Charlie Hebdo cartoon on Italy earthquake sparks anger
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
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Ron Mexico
Member
Genuine question (am I doing this right?):
What do you hope to accomplish by exercising your "right to be disgusted by it and call them out for it"?
What does a successful outrage campaign look like?
radios shipping overview
Member
Audioboxer
Member
Just sharing your thoughts/disgust? That simple.
Not everything needs to be part of some campaign, that is identity politics 101 to a tee. That everyone needs to be lumped into some category. It is entirely possible for an individual to make an individual effort to comment on something simply because they want to! Even if it just achieves self satisfaction of getting it off their chest, or being part of the debate, that is an accomplishment.
It's why all the outrage at the outrage culture being outraged brain gymnastics are just a load of nonsense. Human beings comment on things they want to, and that is largely the answer behind the curtains for the question of what are you trying to accomplish?
Captain Tuttle
Member
Ghostandgoblin
Member
I found it funny.
The fact that people get outraged over comic strips is fun too.
The fact that people get outraged over comic strips is fun too.
SilentRacoon
Member
Thanks for pointing that out, it makes so much more sense under the given context, that's why I asked instead of jumping the gun on something I'm completely clueless of the context.They are clearly aiming at the circumstances that lead to the tragedy and no the event itself, rising awareness as to what caused a catastrophe of such magnitude in the first place, I see no issue when the underlying aspects of the tragedy get satirized and not the tragedy itself.
"acceptable"? no. but it IS the state of affairs, it has been the state of affairs for a considerable amount of time, and it will be the state of affairs in the foreseeable future
the followers of virtually any belief system can be driven to acts of contemptible violence (e.g. anders behring breivik and the far-right); antagonizing members of a belief system featuring extremist factions whose members respond notoriously poorly to provocation is unwise, regardless of whether or not one is morally or legally entitled to do so
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's a necessity. Otherwise, we're sending the message that terrorism works.
Sickboy007
Member
This thread already has way more responses than the one on the earthquake itself...congrats Charlie?
notworksafe
Member
they haven't already? or were the folks trying to blow them up the "right" sort of people?
eso76
Member
It isn't, and it's also addressing Italians' apathetic stance towards the mountains of bullshit, corruption and general ineptitude of their political class. They (we: I'm Italian) know what happens behind the scenes, they are outraged, but ultimately won't do anything as long as they can watch football on TV and 'eat pasta' (I'd like to think if I that as a metaphor). In France they are probably more familiar with such dynamics, being geographically close, so that probably didn't look as much of a stretch.
I'm not saying deaths from the recent earthquake could have been avoided, but it's a fact certain buildings (schools in primis) don't receive the attention you'd expect and are not thoroughly analysed
I'm not seeing any of this in the cartoon as presented.
Gangster Bastard
Member
I don't disagree that it's unwise, that's sort of the point, the tremendous personal risk involved shows that the prophet of islam is a relevant target for satire. There are more moderate voices which are pushing for this sort expression to be made illegal which worries me, it'd be tantamous to handing over the nuclear launch keys to the fanatics (an exaggeration of course).
Life of Brian was extremely controversial at the of it's release, which seems hard to imagine today, I'd say that's a positive development.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Lmao I'm about done with those Charlie Hebdo thread but man did this post gave me a good laugh.
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
How close was it to your head when it zoomed over?
Sickboy007
Member
Never underestimate the self-hatred of Italians.
SilentRacoon
Member
What? We can't just have opinions? We need an endgame? An activist campaign?!?
I find the awful world you live in fascinating. Tell us more about it! What happens when having an opinion doesn't have an endgame? If our opinions constitute as outrage and outrage is invalid or frowned upon what are the appropriate responses then? What views are we allowed to share without you lumping everything into whatever culture you gave a dumb name to? I don't want to risk turning future conversations away from the subject and onto the subject of what you call outrage culture!
...
Is this what outrage at outrage looks like (am I doing this right?)?
(This thread is going around in circles. I'm out!)
I think you're confusing two of their drawings.
The first one was published on January 7, 2015, actually four days before the Charlie Hebdo shooting:
Caption: "Happy New Year Wishes: al-Baghdadi said his too!"
Bubble: "And good health especially!"
The second one was indeed published in the aftermath of the shooting:
Caption: "Meanwhile, in Bangladesh..."
Bubble: "Our hearts go out to you!"
I was talking of the 2nd one actually which is all kinds of great if you ask me.
The 1rst number after the shooting was full of drawings about the event (including the 2 I believe).
There were plenty of drawings making light of the events.
Heck if you ask me the 2nd drawing would have been great as cover...
....You for real?
You know, as most of this forum is American, I am gonna have to agree with a previous poster and say that this has to be an American thing of not understanding the fundamentals of satire.
Or comedy.
Or humour.
For example, in this case, is there just this chance that instead of cowering in fear following a devastating terrorist attack, they decided to heckle the people who did it to them and not stop, but to come out of the tragedy laughing instead out of respect for their co-workers who lost their lives doing what they believed in?
eso76
Member
That's why you need context.
Not in the form of an article going with the cartoon (not sure there's one) rather the general perception of what goes on in the country:
It's not the first time events like this are followed by investigations uncovering irregularities in the way those structures were built, or maybe even exposing the existence of funds that were supposed to go towards improvement and maintenance of certain structures/areas but that somehow vanished in someone's pockets instead.
Or it's entirely possible I'm overestimating them and they really just went for the cheap pun and shock value...I don't know for sure.
They are pretty much anarchists in the sense anything and everything is okay to satirize and make fun of. Religion, natural disasters, humanitarian crises, all have been used for them to make their point.
King Tubby
Member
I thought it was hilariously dark. Cringed a bit at the lasagna, goddamn.
Maintenance
Member
Not funny when it happens to you eh? If they can make fun of Islam I don't see why they should avoid this.
hydragonwarrior
Member
In the name of freedom of speech! Or something.
Ron Mexico
Member
The irony of this made my night.
That's because you are not supposed to see it just from the cartoon. There's a whole newspaper for you to read, if you so wish.
Do you not know what the word context means? I'm pretty sure I've seen it once or twice in this thread.
don't get me wrong -- in no way do i think these sort of cartoons should be illegal. similarly, i do not believe those responsible for drawing them up deserve to be put to death by religious zealots
my perspective is this: the cartoons are needlessly offensive to muslims and -- i think it can be safely said -- not all that funny to most. while not illegal, and rightfully so, i do not feel the production of similar cartoons is something that should be encouraged
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I remember asking the same question about the muslim and refugee cartoons back in the day.
In my opinion what they do is just provocation for provocations sake.
Has nothing to do with intelligent satire.
I dont think there is anything wrong with it, but I think its just very bad attempts at satire that got recognition because of the shooting that happened and suddenly it stood for freedom of the press.
formasymphonic
Member
And chalk me up as another one who isn't really seeing any kind of commentary from the first image that nmatches the narrative people are using for it.
I'm sorry guys, but I genuinely don't see how equating serious injuries to culturally iconic foods equates to "mafia sold you guys fake housing" / "guess those mafia built buildings weren't earthquake proof after all".
I'm sorry guys, but I genuinely don't see how equating serious injuries to culturally iconic foods equates to "mafia sold you guys fake housing" / "guess those mafia built buildings weren't earthquake proof after all".
Dancing Queen
Banned
eso76
Member
It appears CH replied to the outrage with another cartoon, saying
"Italians, it wasn't Charlie hebdo who built your houses, it was the Mafia"
I should ask you where are you from, and have you been following the events closely.
If you don't see it, it's probably just because you're not as exposed to the news and the reveals of the last few days as the people in Italy and nearby countries.
Turns out many of the collapsed building weren't safe, even the school that was restructured in 2012 apparently lacked any of the anti-seismic measure it was supposed to include.
The cartoon is not meant to mock deaths from a natural disaster, it's meant to mock the "Italian way". The sketchy Italian way of doing things.
exmachina64
Banned
Perhaps better known in modern America as the Berlusconi way.
formasymphonic
Member
I'm from UK. My point was that the cover image (and arguably even the second image) isn't speaking on the buildings buildings being built with fraudulent seismic protections.
The first is a joke about the wounds equating local foods. *For the second image, a case could be made for commentary on mafia methods, but really it just feels like it's deflection for any anger people might be feeling for the first image.
veloxStrix
Banned
Italians making pasta from other Italians? Equating human beings to a consumable product? Can't even make one tiny connection?
Here's my issue with the complaints about Charlie Hebdo comics in general: Most of the people who are outraged don't actually know shit about the world anyways, nor do they care to actually learn anything. A lot of Hebdo strips are huge asspulls bordering on racism, but then when they actually do make a point it doesn't matter because no one gets it. And then it's CH's fault for someone else's ignorance on the affairs involved.
formasymphonic
Member
Doesn't the caption read "Italian Earthquake" (Seisme a l'italienne)? Nothing about the Italians themselves making pasta from other Italians at all. It is an image that likens injuriess incurred in a natural disaster to their resemblance to local dishes.
It really is reaching for anyone to pull any kind of depth from it. There is no intelligence here to my eyes, and no double level "we don't think like this really, we are just mocking the people who think like this by exposing their the way they think" satire shtick that people normally use to defend CH.
It's just a cartoon mocking injuries with no commentary to my eyes. Shrug.
Maybe they've decided to go for the third level and are satirising the fact that nobody can understand what the hell the joke is supposed to be most of the time.
Alx
Member
The whole point of "I am Charlie" wasn't about agreeing with them or even liking what they do, but considering that attacking them is attacking all of us.
Also I've said it from the beginning, but people are trying too hard to find depth in Charlie Hebdo when most of the time there isn't. They're all about childish jokes, sometimes through satire and sometimes not. Bad taste and shock value is their most common trait.
I also don't quite get the connection in the first image, but the second one is alright, i think.
As i said, they should've started with that one instead.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Ironically the second drawing is not satire, it's just a plain statement.
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