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[walking fiend]

Did you notice something? Everybody here didn't comment on the out of context picture, because they needed more information to make an opinion. Maybe you should try that with cartoons also.

OH, thank you for saying that.

That was the whole point of posting that picture. When the context is not provided, people at best are confused; if you are the subject of the picture, however, you are quite likely to be offended. Human's are hardwired to respond to stimuli emotionally; specially under stress and tension [and the whole race issue causes a lot of tension].

The meaning of a cartoon can be quite easily manipulated in the internet.

 

[Real Hero]

OH, thank you for saying that.

That was the whole point of posting that picture. When the context is not provided, people at best are confused; if you are the subject of the picture, however, you are quite likely to be offended. Human's are hardwired to respond to stimuli emotionally; specially under stress and tension [and the whole race issue causes a lot of tension].

The meaning of a cartoon can be quite easily manipulated in the internet.

right and sensible people know that and don't go with their gut reaction, stupid people stick with their gut reaction despite what facts are shown to them afterwards.

 

[Systolique]

Their point was to "highlight the issue of female genital mutilation"



My point is that art can be very controversial in the age of internet and mass media. Just because the creator wants to promote harmony or a more moderate understanding, it doesn't mean it will do so.


That's not my point. My point is that, if you are a left magazine and if you claim that your cartoons cause X, while in fact your cartoons cause exactly the opposite of X in reality, and you know that, at least you are being irresponsible. It is similar to making a joke to make someone happy, while you know it will hurt them. How is that a joke anymore?


Yes yes. Please read my post above. I am sorry that I used the general word 'Muslims' before the sentence 'don't find it funny'.

[Why do I have to point out my points all the time; please try to figure them out]

 

[walking fiend]

Sadly, a small minority of 25% of the world is still a fuck ton of people who want to kill others over a cartoon/free speech/gender equality etc.

Gimme a break. No. The terrorist attacks happen because:

Those countries are being bombarded by western countries.
Those countries were ripped apart 100 years ago.
The immigrants from those countries have to deal with racist shit and stupidity in the western countries.

These cartoons are merely psychological excuses.

right and sensible people know that and don't go with their gut reaction, stupid people stick with their gut reaction despite what facts are shown to them afterwards.

Humans are scientifically shown to act irrationally under stress and tension, invariably.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Hopefully they just remain threats and nothing worse.

 

[Riposte]

Glad to see GAF is defending Charlie now. I seem to remember that when they did a drawing about that drowned Syrian toddler GAF wasn't too hot on defending them.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1112663

I remember that thread and looking back it's a rather embarrassing effort for the people involved. This post by animlboogy who also posted in this thread remains useful in this thread. This part makes me chuckle

Comics shouldn't always be snarky nerd humor or whatever passes as acceptable to people around here.

There are people who think they have a subversive, challenging sense of humor in their snarkiness, but it is actually just the TV-safe legacy of stuff like the Daily Show (easy jokes against easy targets).

 

[ClosingADoor]

OH, thank you for saying that.

That was the whole point of posting that picture. When the context is not provided, people at best are confused; if you are the subject of the picture, however, you are quite likely to be offended. Human's are hardwired to respond to stimuli emotionally; specially under stress and tension [and the whole race issue causes a lot of tension].

The meaning of a cartoon can be quite easily manipulated in the internet.

And again, how is that the fault of the cartoonist? Should he only be allowed to draw things that are impossible to take out of context? I really don't get your point here.

 

[walking fiend]

And again, how is that the fault of the cartoonist? Should he only be allowed to draw things that are impossible to take out of context? I really don't get your point here.

No. S/he should be allowed to draw whatever s/he wants. However, if s/he knows, if we all know, that it will be taken out of context, it is insincere to claim that they wanted to criticize a certain policy and just that.

 

[Alo0oy]

Mock religion, don't mock people, especially not in racially charged ways. Feel free to defend their right to be racist, but don't praise them and expect not to be called racist or racism-apologist.

 

[Tiberius]

Gimme a break. No. The terrorist attacks happen because:

Those countries are being bombarded by western countries.
Those countries were ripped apart 100 years ago.
The immigrants from those countries have to deal with racist shit and stupidity in the western countries.

These cartoons are merely psychological excuses.


Humans are scientifically shown to act irrationally under stress and tension, invariably.

You know the top 6 reasons of the islamic state to attack western countries ?


It's in french i will resume it in english (sorry for the mistakes) http://www.atlantico.fr/pepites/etat-islamique-detaille-raisons-hair-occident-2781816.html

1) "Nous vous haïssons, avant tout, parce que vous êtes des mécréants; vous rejetez l'unicité d'Allah – que vous en ayez conscience ou non."

we hate you because you don't believe in allah

2) "Nous vous haïssons parce que vous êtes laïcs : les sociétés libérales autorisent précisément ce qu'Allah a interdit, tout en interdisant nombre de choses qu'il a permises: ce dont vous vous moquez, parce que vous séparez la religion et l'Etat, accordant ainsi l'autorité suprême sur vos caprices et vos désirs, via des législateurs que vous mettez au pouvoir par vos votes."

we hate you because you're laïc, and your society permit what allah said is forbidden and forbid what allah permit, and you don't care because you separate state and religion spoiling the suprême authority

3) "Nous vous faisons la guerre parce que vous ne croyez pas en Dieu"

We fight you because you're unfaithful

4) "Nous vous haïssons en raison de vos crimes contre l'islam. Nous vous combattons afin de vous punir pour vos atteintes à notre religion"

We hate you for your crimes against islam

5) "Vos drones et vos avions bombardent, tuent et mutilent notre peuple à travers le monde. Vos marionnettes dans les pays musulmans que vous vous êtes appropriés oppressent, torturent et luttent contre ceux qui disent la vérité"

your drones and planes kill our people
Your puppets at the head of Muslim states kill, torture and fight the truth

6) "Nous vous haïssons parce que vous envahissez nos terres. Tant qu'il y aura une parcelle de territoire à reconquérir, le djihad sera une obligation personnelle pour tout musulman"

we hate you because you invade our land

You see that their firsts reasons to attack is because they hate our way of life

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Ugh, I love GAF but every time I see a Charlie Hebdo thread I want to slam my head against a wall. Trump comparisons, seriously?

I don't read Charlie anymore as I have disliked their approach to satire for a good decade but there are no racist connotations to their cartoons. Context is key. They are a far left publication and their favorite targets are the ultra-xenophobic european extreme right and religious extremists of all kinds.

This cover is attacking the mayor of Cannes's stupid policies that are probably going to be overturned and no French citizen with half a brain is ever going to interpret it any other way.

I am french as well and i don't think that being from left or right is a kind of magical cure against racism and bigotry. If we were to analyse some cartoon of Charlie Hebdo of the ultimate decade, we would see a lot of problematic things, and not everything is humorous, there is always a message conveyed by humour.

And Philippe Val was the director of Charlie Hebdo for some years and he is everything but a leftist. You have a whole current of the french left who is hardliner on muslims, immigration and identity.

 

[remist]

No. S/he should be allowed to draw whatever s/he wants. However, if s/he knows, if we all know, that it will be taken out of context, it is insincere to claim that they wanted to criticize a certain policy and just that.

The fact that it will be taken out of context by ignorant readers has no bearing on the sincerity of the artist or author. Your posts make no logical sense.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

You know the top 6 reasons of the islamic state to attack western countries ?


It's in french i will resume it in english (sorry for the mistakes) http://www.atlantico.fr/pepites/etat-islamique-detaille-raisons-hair-occident-2781816.html

1) "Nous vous haïssons, avant tout, parce que vous êtes des mécréants; vous rejetez l'unicité d'Allah – que vous en ayez conscience ou non."

we hate you because you don't believe in allah

2) "Nous vous haïssons parce que vous êtes laïcs : les sociétés libérales autorisent précisément ce qu'Allah a interdit, tout en interdisant nombre de choses qu'il a permises: ce dont vous vous moquez, parce que vous séparez la religion et l'Etat, accordant ainsi l'autorité suprême sur vos caprices et vos désirs, via des législateurs que vous mettez au pouvoir par vos votes."
we hate you because you're laïc, and your society permit what allah said is forbidden and forbid what allah permit, and you don't care because you separate state and religion spoiling the suprême authority

3) "Nous vous faisons la guerre parce que vous ne croyez pas en Dieu"

We fight you because you're unfaithful

4) "Nous vous haïssons en raison de vos crimes contre l'islam. Nous vous combattons afin de vous punir pour vos atteintes à notre religion"

We hate you for your crimes against islam

5) "Vos drones et vos avions bombardent, tuent et mutilent notre peuple à travers le monde. Vos marionnettes dans les pays musulmans que vous vous êtes appropriés oppressent, torturent et luttent contre ceux qui disent la vérité"

your drones and planes kill our people
Your puppets at the head of Muslim states kill, torture and fight the truth

6) "Nous vous haïssons parce que vous envahissez nos terres. Tant qu'il y aura une parcelle de territoire à reconquérir, le djihad sera une obligation personnelle pour tout musulman"

we hate you because you invade our land

You see that their firsts reasons to attack is because they hate our way of life

I agree with that, but i think that we should aswell analyse how somebody became a terrorist.
Isis as group would fight everybody because of their ideology, but we cannot separate them from their context. It's very unlikely that such a group would rise in a peaceful environment (Irak is in constant war since the eighty...)

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Good for them for showing the courage to stand up against hate but I fear for their safety. Should get some armed security in case some insane lunatic tries something. An Algerian guy I used to know in school uploaded a video of himself playing Overwatch and made an 'Allahu Ackbar' joke when he used D.Va's ult, does that mean he's being bigoted against himself? Nope. He's not really a religious guy since he's a nightclub promoter and all, but still.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Good for them for showing the courage to stand up against hate but I fear for their safety. Should get some armed security in case some insane lunatic tries something. An Algerian guy I used to know in school uploaded a video of himself playing Overwatch and made an 'Allahu Ackbar' joke when he used D.Va's ult, does that mean he's being bigoted against himself? Nope. He's not really a religious guy since he's a nightclub promoter and all, but still.

Meaning of the act is gaved by the context.
When an algerian make a joke about terrorism and islam is not the same that the kind of thing you heard on counter strike on a daily basis, or what Charlie Hebdo is doing in society rampant with islamophobia, where wearing an islamic garment can be perceived as an act of allegiance to ISIS.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I am french as well and i don't think that being from left or right is a kind of magical cure against racism and bigotry. If we were to analyse some cartoon of Charlie Hebdo of the ultimate decade, we would see a lot of problematic things, and not everything is humorous, there is always a message conveyed by humour.

And Philippe Val was the director of Charlie Hebdo for some years and he is everything but a leftist. You have a whole current of the french left who is hardliner on muslims, immigration and identity.

Sure, Charlie Hebdo has published some questionable stuff over the years. As I mentioned, I haven't read it in a very long time, mainly because of Val and what he turned it into and I was no fan of Charb either (obviously, I still think his death is a tragedy of course). I have a lot more respect for Le Canard Enchaîné even though I don't read it anymore either (I'm a bit tired of politics these days). It's just that every time a Charlie cartoon ends up on GAF, it's profoundly misinterpreted and labeled as racist by a good number of posters who don't consider its context. If you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find Charlie cartoons that are actually racist, but this one clearly isn't.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Good for them for showing the courage to stand up against hate but I fear for their safety. Should get some armed security in case some insane lunatic tries something. An Algerian guy I used to know in school uploaded a video of himself playing Overwatch and made an 'Allahu Ackbar' joke when he used D.Va's ult, does that mean he's being bigoted against himself? Nope. He's not really a religious guy since he's a nightclub promoter and all, but still.

There were already a cop in the building when the attack occurred. He got killed too.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I also don't appreciate the guy who personally insulted me on Twitter about this thread but some people are assholes so it is what it is.

People do this?

Hi, banned-user Twitter!

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Sure, Charlie Hebdo has published some questionable stuff over the years. As I mentioned, I haven't read it in a very long time, mainly because of Val. I have a lot more respect for Le Canard Enchaîné even though I don't read it anymore either (I'm a bit tired of politics these days). It's just that every time a Charlie cartoon ends up on GAF, it's profoundly misinterpreted and labeled as racist by a good number of posters who don't consider its context. If you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find Charlie cartoons that are actually racist, but this one clearly isn't.

I agree that this is one is not racist but i find it really shocking and disrespectful. But i guess it's the purpose intended.

You can find some which are REALLY racist and not only against muslim, or supporting violent crackdown on opponents like during Egypt 2013 coup when 1000 people were killed in one day.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

There were already a cop in the building when the attack occurred. He got killed too.

Pretty sure he just had a pistol. Should get some jacked up dudes in full plate carriers with assault rifles to help them out instead. Charlie Hebdo is pretty leftist AFAIK, so I don't think they intend to be bigoted or racist, just satirical against extremists.

 

[walking fiend]

You know the top 6 reasons of the islamic state to attack western countries ?


It's in french i will resume it in english (sorry for the mistakes) http://www.atlantico.fr/pepites/etat-islamique-detaille-raisons-hair-occident-2781816.html

1) "Nous vous haïssons, avant tout, parce que vous êtes des mécréants; vous rejetez l'unicité d'Allah – que vous en ayez conscience ou non."

we hate you because you don't believe in allah

2) "Nous vous haïssons parce que vous êtes laïcs : les sociétés libérales autorisent précisément ce qu'Allah a interdit, tout en interdisant nombre de choses qu'il a permises: ce dont vous vous moquez, parce que vous séparez la religion et l'Etat, accordant ainsi l'autorité suprême sur vos caprices et vos désirs, via des législateurs que vous mettez au pouvoir par vos votes."

we hate you because you're laïc, and your society permit what allah said is forbidden and forbid what allah permit, and you don't care because you separate state and religion spoiling the suprême authority

3) "Nous vous faisons la guerre parce que vous ne croyez pas en Dieu"

We fight you because you're unfaithful

4) "Nous vous haïssons en raison de vos crimes contre l'islam. Nous vous combattons afin de vous punir pour vos atteintes à notre religion"

We hate you for your crimes against islam

5) "Vos drones et vos avions bombardent, tuent et mutilent notre peuple à travers le monde. Vos marionnettes dans les pays musulmans que vous vous êtes appropriés oppressent, torturent et luttent contre ceux qui disent la vérité"

your drones and planes kill our people
Your puppets at the head of Muslim states kill, torture and fight the truth

6) "Nous vous haïssons parce que vous envahissez nos terres. Tant qu'il y aura une parcelle de territoire à reconquérir, le djihad sera une obligation personnelle pour tout musulman"

we hate you because you invade our land

You see that their firsts reasons to attack is because they hate our way of life

The reason that ISIS exist to begin with is that Iraq and Syria where destabilized to hell and back. The reason that Syria and Iraq exist in the first place is that Britain and France decided to rip apart middle East 100 years ago.

This is a bizarre world that you quote ISIS to understand why this is happening.

The fact that it will be taken out of context by ignorant readers has no bearing on the sincerity of the artist or author. Your posts make no logical sense.

It will be taken out of context by Media, not the users. Once taken out of the context, it is very unlikely for the average person to decipher the message in its now lost context.

This is the basic of media studies theory. I suggest you watch Ways of Seeing. Then we can discuss it further.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Pretty sure he just had a pistol. Should get some jacked up dudes in full plate carriers with assault rifles to help them out instead. Charlie Hebdo is pretty leftist AFAIK, so I don't think they intend to be bigoted or racist, just satirical against extremists.

Please explain me which extremist are targeted in this cartoon.

The women are saying "Don't touch my social aid!" and the comment say "the sex slave of Boko Haram are demonstrating".

Anyway, Charlie Hebdo is now installed in the HQ of Liberation, one of the greatest national newspapers, and there was heavy police for in front of the building last time i went there.

 

[Henkka]

The reason that ISIS exist to begin with is that Iraq and Syria where destabilized to hell and back. The reason that Syria and Iraq exist in the first place is that Britain and France decided to rip apart middle East 100 years ago.

This is a bizarre world that you quote ISIS to understand why this is happening.

A region being destabilized doesn't naturally lead to the formation of a genocidal death cult that seeks world domination and keeps literal sex slaves, though. There's more to it.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

A region being destabilized doesn't naturally lead to the formation of a genocidal death cult that seeks world domination and keeps literal sex slaves, though. There's more to it.

Well in Ukraine, a country that didn't go through 1/1000 about what Irak go through the last 30 years, you have far-right milicia prohibiting women to go out at night calling them prostitute and instauring terror militia in some area. You have some report about this on Vice.

I do agree that violence and chaos don't lead necessarily to formation of group like ISIS and there is definitely something more to it. But they make them possible.

 

[walking fiend]

A region being destabilized doesn't naturally lead to the formation of a genocidal death cult that seeks world domination and keeps literal sex slaves, though. There's more to it.

I suggest you read more about what happens in the rest of the world that is destabilized. Namely Africa. Of course the western media doesn't give a single fuck about all the atrocities that are unfolding there; it has lost its news value and it doesn't concern them.

You should also read about what was happening in the WW2. Sex slavery was systematic in Japan at least, and rape rampant in Europe. Not to mention that 200,000 civilians died in an instant by two bombs.

Ignorance is a bliss.

You should also read how France conquered Algeria. Hint: one if their tactics was that when people fled into caves, they would start fire at the entrance to suffocate them with smoke. Even Tocqueville defended this.

 

[EmiPrime]

Please explain me which extremist are targeted in this cartoon.

The women are saying "Don't touch my social aid!" and the comment say "the sex slave of Boko Haram are demonstrating".

Anyway, Charlie Hebdo is now installed in the HQ of Liberation, one of the greatest national newspapers, and there was heavy police for in front of the building last time i went there.

From what I remember that front cover was published when child benefit reforms were being proposed so that high income families would get less money back from the state. While rich French families are whining about their benefits being taken away, girls were being kidnapped and raped in Nigeria. They juxtaposed the two current affairs to lampoon rich, whiny French people.

 

[nynt9]

Please explain me which extremist are targeted in this cartoon.

The women are saying "Don't touch my social aid!" and the comment say "the sex slave of Boko Haram are demonstrating".

Anyway, Charlie Hebdo is now installed in the HQ of Liberation, one of the greatest national newspapers, and there was heavy police for in front of the building last time i went there.

Googling the question yielded this thread which is very interesting: https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-...ting-Boko-Harams-sex-slaves-as-welfare-queens

 

[Henkka]

I suggest you read more about what happens in the rest of the world that is destabilized. Namely Africa. Of course the western media doesn't give a single fuck about all the atrocities that are unfolding there; it has lost its news value and it doesn't concern them.

You should also read about what was happening in the WW2. Sex slavery was systematic in Japan at least, and rape rampant in Europe. Not to mention that 200,000 civilians died in an instant by two bombs.

Ignorance is a bliss.

I understand all that... I just think you're downplaying the religious aspect of groups like ISIS.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

 

[RustyNails]

I understand all that... I just think you're downplaying the religious aspect of groups like ISIS.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Here's an analysis that just came out from AP

'Islam for Dummies': IS recruits have poor grasp of faith

An AP analysis of thousands of leaked Islamic State documents reveals most of its recruits from its earliest days came with only the most basic knowledge of Islam. A little more than 3,000 of these documents included the recruit's knowledge of Shariah, the system that interprets into law verses from the Quran and "hadith" — the sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad.

Are disaffected people who understand Shariah more prone to radicalization? Or are those with little knowledge of Islam more susceptible to the group's radical ideas that promote violence?

The documents suggest the latter. The group preys on this religious ignorance, allowing extremists to impose a brand of Islam constructed to suit its goal of maximum territorial expansion and carnage as soon as recruits come under its sway.

Islamic State's most notorious new supporters appear to have an equally tenuous link with religion. Mohamed Lahouaiyej Bouhlel, who killed 85 people by plowing a truck into a Bastille Day crowd in Nice, France, was described by family and neighbors as indifferent to religion, volatile and prone to drinking sprees, with a bent for salsa dancing and a reported male lover.

Unlike Omar Mateen, the Orlando attacker, Bouhlel did not make a public declaration of allegiance to Islamic State, much less prove he had direct ties to extremists in the war zone. Still, the group was quick to claim both as foot soldiers.

 

[cripterion]

Already got shot up and they made another cartoon.

Balls of steel.

Not balls of steel, just the freedom of speech, I mean the cover isn't that bad. You gotta be some extreme fucktard to take issue with it to the point you wanna kill.

 

[ClosingADoor]

No. S/he should be allowed to draw whatever s/he wants. However, if s/he knows, if we all know, that it will be taken out of context, it is insincere to claim that they wanted to criticize a certain policy and just that.

Again, the taking out of context is not on the one doing the drawing.

I can grab a history book, take some images from Nazi's and put them online for people to take out of context. Is it now the fault of the writer and should he have kept that in mind? It just makes no sense.

 

[Tiberius]

I suggest you read more about what happens in the rest of the world that is destabilized. Namely Africa. Of course the western media doesn't give a single fuck about all the atrocities that are unfolding there; it has lost its news value and it doesn't concern them.

You should also read about what was happening in the WW2. Sex slavery was systematic in Japan at least, and rape rampant in Europe. Not to mention that 200,000 civilians died in an instant by two bombs.

Ignorance is a bliss.

You should also read how France conquered Algeria. Hint: one if their tactics was that when people fled into caves, they would start fire at the entrance to suffocate them with smoke. Even Tocqueville defended this.

La culture c'est comme la confiture moins on en a plus on l'étale !

 

[Henkka]

Here's an analysis that just came out from AP

'Islam for Dummies': IS recruits have poor grasp of faith

This is also true, but I'd say it's comparable to American fundamentalist christians not knowing much about the Bible. It really doesn't say anything about the sincerity of their religious fervour. I'd find it much more compelling if it could be shown that the leadership of ISIS knew or cared little about Islam, but al-Baghdadi for example has a PhD in Islamic studies.

To clarify, I'm not saying this means all muslims are violent or some dumb shit like that. Just saying we need to understand the enemy to defeat them, and their religious beliefs are part of that. This is getting really off-topic so I'll stop now.

 

[EmiPrime]

Here's an analysis that just came out from AP

'Islam for Dummies': IS recruits have poor grasp of faith

IME most religious people have a poor grasp of their own faith. IS recruits aren't outliers in that regard, they just reflect the general Muslim population and judging who is the better Muslim based on knowledge or adherence is a dangerous game to play.

 

[walking fiend]

Again, the taking out of context is not on the one doing the drawing.

I can grab a history book, take some images from Nazi's and put them online for people to take out of context. Is it now the fault of the writer and should he have kept that in mind? It just makes no sense.

True. But s/he knows that will happen for sure. There should be a limit to idealism; too much if it just back fires. Pragmatism can be useful.

 

[ClosingADoor]

True. But s/he knows that will happen for sure. There should be a limit to idealism; too much if it just back fires. Pragmatism can be useful.

That's again up to the cartoonist to decide. Blaming them with the "should have known" argument is just a form of victim blaming. I'd support the one receiving death threats, because those should never be sent. Not criticize him for drawing a stupid cartoon that gets some people all bothered.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

This is also true, but I'd say it's comparable to American fundamentalist christians not knowing much about the Bible. It really doesn't say anything about the sincerity of their religious fervour. I'd find it much more compelling if it could be shown that the leadership of ISIS knew or cared little about Islam, but al-Baghdadi for example has a PhD in Islamic studies.

To clarify, I'm not saying this means all muslims are violent or some dumb shit like that. Just saying we need to understand the enemy to defeat them, and their religious beliefs are part of that. This is getting really off-topic so I'll stop now.

Having a PhD in the secular university of Baghdad (4 years of study) don't qualify someone as a islamic scholar. Normally, you have to study at least 10 year to be able to produce a fatwa, and 20 to be considered as a proper scholar.

Adding to that that he made a PhD in qur'anic recitation, i don't know how useful it can be when you pretend to lead the whole community of 1.6 billon muslim.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Googling the question yielded this thread which is very interesting: https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-...ting-Boko-Harams-sex-slaves-as-welfare-queens

Thanks for the link, i found this article (i already knew it but didn't know that it was translated in english), very useful to understand how polirizing Charlie Hebdo is in the french society. It's only about cultural mistranslation:

“Charlie Hebdo”, not racist? If you say so…

 

[Moonkid]

Oh look, another edgy Hebdo cartoon. Stay safe folks.

 

[radios shipping overview]

From what I remember that front cover was published when child benefit reforms were being proposed so that high income families would get less money back from the state. While rich French families are whining about their benefits being taken away, girls were being kidnapped and raped in Nigeria. They juxtaposed the two current affairs to lampoon rich, whiny French people.

This is some pretty deep context for a cover as provocative as that. Admittedly, they only publish in France, so it's apparent that the magazine is intended for consumption by people who have some current knowledge of French politics and humor.

But, still, to choose an image and a punchline like that to make an ironic point about the entitled upper class, or about FN... they have to be knowingly stirring the shit on some level. The joke is apparently made at the expense of victims of human trafficking.

Charlie Hebdo cartoons are not the only example of context getting lost when a piece of writing or art is spread to the wider internet, and the particular type of humor used seems to exacerbate the problem.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Fuck Charlie Hebdo.

Getting shot up doesn't make their shit stink any less.

What the fuck. How is this even acceptable? And i see from your sig that you also hate the french language and call it disgusting. Nice mindset there. Open minded, accepting of others. I expect others are as accepting of you as you are toward them.

 

[kingslunk]

What the fuck. How is this even acceptable? And i see from your sig that you also hate the french language and call it disgusting. Nice mindset there. Open minded, accepting of others. I expect others are as accepting as you are toward you.

That must be a English Canadian vs French Canadian grudge. It's best to stay out of the logic in that one.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I just came across this article, which seems to say the gist of what I just posted, but more eloquently: http://www.vox.com/2015/1/12/7518349/charlie-hebdo-racist

"Unforgivable acts of slaughter imbue merely rude acts of publication with a glittering nobility," Matthew Yglesias wrote last week. "To blaspheme the Prophet transforms the publication of these cartoons from a pointless act to a courageous and even necessary one."

And yet, raising these cartoons to something much grander does have victims. As is so often the case, those victims are society's weakest and most vulnerable, in this case the Muslim and non-white subjects of Charlie Hebdo's belittling ridicule.

"The elevation of such images to a point of high principle will increase the burdens on those minority groups," as Matt put it. "European Muslims find themselves crushed between the actions of a tiny group of killers and the necessary response of the majority society. Problems will increase for an already put-upon group of people."

 

[Aselith]

It's not a big deal at all, so what baffles me is seeing Gaffers stand behind them and praise them for this garbage.

I don't think the response would be the same if a racist American "artist" came out with a satirical comic mocking black people following a riot here or something. It'd just be dismissed as hateful and racist in its intent and people would move on, not say "mm good on him in this PC society we live in".

Could you explain why the image is racist?

 

[HyperCroutons]

Glad hebdo's still taking risk with their satire, i'm happy that the terrorist couldnt scare them away from what they do even after losing fellow co-workers to them. Shows you that freedom of expression/press is more powerful than fear.

 

[nynt9]

Thanks for the link, i found this article (i already knew it but didn't know that it was translated in english), very useful to understand how polirizing Charlie Hebdo is in the french society. It's only about cultural mistranslation:

“Charlie Hebdo”, not racist? If you say so…

Can't say I entirely agree. That article focuses almost exclusively on Hebdo's criticisms of Islam. They've had way harsher criticisms of other religions and it's written by a disgruntled former employee. Take it with many grains of salt. Makes it seem like Hebdo are specifically on an anti-Islam crusade, which they're not.

 

[walking fiend]

That's again up to the cartoonist to decide. Blaming them with the "should have known" argument is just a form of victim blaming. I'd support the one receiving death threats, because those should never be sent. Not criticize him for drawing a stupid cartoon that gets some people all bothered.

The cartoonist is only one participant in the whole process. The other players are: Muslims, French people, extremists.

The victim here is not only the cartoonist, which in all probability is protected by heavy security and safe, but also the other innocent people who die in extremists attack. The Muslims are also a victim, because the racist message that is portrayed in the media by a. the spread of the cartoon, b. the reportage of the reaction to the cartoon, marginalizes them even more.

There was an interesting article posted earlier in the thread, which showed that the extremists actually are less familiar with Islam than the average Muslim. It isn't too far fetched to assume that they are generally less literate than the average person. Knowing this and publishing that cartoon, is not so different that kicking a dog and saying that you had no responsibility for it snapping back.

People should accept the existence of extremists as a reality that needs to be dealt with pragmatically. Just saying that they are evil bastards [which they are] will not make them go away.

 

[EmiPrime]

This is some pretty deep context for a cover as provocative as that. Admittedly, they only publish in France, so it's apparent that the magazine is intended for consumption by people who have some current knowledge of French politics and humor.

But, still, to choose an image and a punchline like that to make an ironic point about the entitled upper class, or about FN... they have to be knowingly stirring the shit on some level. The joke is apparently made at the expense of victims of human trafficking.

Charlie Hebdo cartoons are not the only example of context getting lost when a piece of writing or art is spread to the wider internet, and the particular type of humor used seems to exacerbate the problem.

Putting a mirror to the vilest elements of society (mostly the right wing) is just their style. It's sometimes a bit too on the nose for me and it works some times better than others but other times they get it spot on.

After the Florida mass shooting they had Trump on the front cover along with a depiction of the night club massacre with him saying "Deport the towelheads who come here to kill our faggots!".

The joke wasn't at the expense of the LGBT community and the victims, it was taking the piss out of Trump and the GOP being caught between their hatred of gay and trans people and their hatred of Muslims and non-whites.

 

[dh4niel]

If it was anti-Muslim I'd understand but it's just silly.

 

[Pulka]

Why does it matter if Charlie Hebdo is racist? They still shouldn't be bombed and shot, right?