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Charlottesville alt-right white nationalist torch rally

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moeman

Member
this is wrong on so many levels - they don't have the person in custody, but are literally saying it wasn't malicious, they were scared of counter-protesters, etc.

And these are the individuals who are supposed to be protecting us and enforcing fair and just laws.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Trump is about to speak about the white nationalist terrorism he explicitly enabled and encouraged.

I'm sure his words will be wise and calming.
 

Sblargh

Banned
I consider myself a libertarian and do believe libertarianism (or classical liberalism) stands against everything these pieces of shit murdering terrorists are defending in this rally, and yet, I have no doubt in my heart that there were at least some self-professed libertarians in there, marching side by side with the nazis, rationalizing to themselves that "uniting the right" is more important than... jesus fucking christ... not marching side by side with someone with a literal nazi flag screaming for the death of minorities.

I just know it. I just fucking know it.
I believe in small government, the free market, so on and so forth, but I can't really deny the movement attracts the kind of people marching side by side with nazis. I just fucking know it, man.
 

Oberon

Banned
Even if it wasn't a state of war nazism shouldn't be tolerated, how in the world is this even remotely a discussion. Stop telling minorities how to respond to the people who're actively trying to oppress them and at this point are openly attacking them more than usual

The world isn't that simple. This isn't some video game or movie where the only way to get a result is to "kill the bad guys". What you're suggestion is starting a civil war over this. And I think you know why that would be a bad idea
 

III-V

Member
From the videos I'm not seeing any Lexus and someone posted a picture of how it looks identical to a modified Charger.

Sounds funky.



Ah I'll go check out the thread to make sure I'm fully tracking what she is referencing then. Thanks

Yes, I thought it was a charger as well. Not sure why some are saying minivan and other cars.
 

LiK

Member
Trump is about to speak about the white nationalist terrorism he explicitly enabled and encouraged.

I'm sure his words will be wise and calming.

Those speech writers are pretty tired.

Yes, I thought it was a charger as well. Not sure why some are saying minivan and other cars.

There were other cars at the scene but it looked like the charger caused their accident and left.
 
Code:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHDNUllW0AAODvU.jpg[/IMG]

but guys, I got sworn that they weren't nazis! They were only supposed to be anxious about the economy... :/
 

Wvrs

Member
Yes, it's only you, who doesn't really want to take any stance either way, (because me and every other poster here knows that none of this impacts you at all negatively) that is rational. No one else is. Ironic that you are defending difference of opinion yet when people say you are wrong that instantly they are being irrational and only your opinion is rational.

Isn't that exactly what you're saying these "vigilantes" shouldn't be doing? That they shouldn't be determining what views are rational and what views aren't?

I'm saying that if you can't talk it through without assuming the worst of my character based on a few lines of text, then yeah, you're not being rational here.

Organised violence isn't the answer and will only inflame things, yes there is a tipping point where it becomes the only option but that point isn't now and I'd think twice before trying to push everyone to it.
 

Uhyve

Member
There's no way the guy doesn't get the book thrown at him. There's too much video evidence of intent. But the fact that this is evidently their first reaction is shameless horseshit.
Yeah. I mean, we all know that if the police didn't have to be at the rally, the majority would still be there.
 
I appreciate what you're saying, but I think you'd agree that there may eventually be a time when non-violence and reliance on existing institutions may not be enough. The issue is when that time comes; to some people, it already has. I'm not sure I agree, but it's definitely closer.

The time for violence is when you believe violence will achieve your goals better than peaceful methods.

If you believe that this attack is going to make the alt right more able to carry out their agenda, then yeah, I suppose you would support the left taking similar measures. But anyone with any skin in the game is trying to distance themselves from the attacks, because the politics of this are horrible, and so would, say, bombing or shooting up the rally before all this happened.

MLK didn't choose nonviolence because he was a starry-eyed idealist. He did it because he knew that power in America flows from public opinion, not from the barrel of a gun. That might change, at some point in the future, but right now we live in a liberal democracy that is at least partially responsive to the will of the public. Winning PR victories is vastly more important than killing a few grunts.
 

Mechazawa

Member
Don't get excited just yet.

mMwVzYN.jpg


Justice hasn't been served yet and now it seems like it won't.

This tweet makes *zero* sense. Is there another gray car with the front completely demolished driving around?

 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The world isn't that simple. This isn't some video game or movie where the only way to get a result is to "kill the bad guys".
How did the world solve the nazi problem again? By choosing the right dialogue options and hoping the speech stat kicks in and they magically stop wanting to exterminate people?
 

The Kree

Banned
The world isn't that simple. This isn't some video game or movie where the only way to get a result is to "kill the bad guys". What you're suggestion is starting a civil war over this. And I think you know why that would be a bad idea
It's a bad idea because white America would be more than happy to stand aside and let more terrible shit happen to historically oppressed people?
 

D i Z

Member
I don't give a shit, vigilantism and peacetime society are incompatible, so either admit that what you want is an open, declared state of violence like in 1930s Spain or let the law handle it. You can't cherry pick when it's okay to take matters into your own hands, do you want people kicking the shit out of you openly every time they disagree with you? Because the semantics of what constitutes a Nazi aside, the precedent you're wanting to set is: it's okay to commit violence against people who you don't agree with, especially when they're X group.

Who gets to decide who is a Nazi? Where does the line get drawn? What happens when the parameters for acceptable violence expands from Nazis to other groups?

I worry about some of you guys and how much you let emotion cloud rational judgement.

You can keep all of that worry you've got for those saying enough is enough. Nobody needs it.
 
Who gets to decide who is a Nazi?

probably the people happily declaring themselves nazis

Where does the line get drawn? What happens when the parameters for acceptable violence expands from Nazis to other groups?

why should i give a shit about a group of people who would rather see me and my race dead in the street than give us some rights? fuck nazis, and fuck people who try to give them a platform to speak with. they don't deserve an ounce of respect or a moment to "hear them out," they deserve to be spit on, shamed, and humiliated. for fuck's sake, even the germans don't give them anything in their country, so why are we?
 

cntr

Banned
I remember that I used to think America was overall a decent place, lots of stupid people, but overall decent. But now...I honestly can't say that anymore. 'Stupid' isn't the right word for these Nazi scumbags.

Stay safe, you guys, wherever you are. The good people need to make it through.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
It's the actions of a spare few extreme that speak very loudly. Are Nazis running us over in minivans en masse?

I understand where you're going: If we allow this kind of thing to continue without retaliation, then they're gonna put all of us in concentration camps! I understand this extrapolation... but think it's a bit of an oversimplification.

A few Nazis running crowds over in minivans won't directly lead to the mass imprisonment of minorities in concentration camps. There will be a lot of fighting, potentially violent and also political, before that last step has the chance of happening.

But really, since we're doubting the justice system here... are you confident that this person or persons who just ran over a crowd of people in this car won't face jail time? Our system's flawed, but I think we can pretty much guarantee that these aggressors are gonna get a hefty sentence.

U.S as a whole does imprison select minorities disproportionately to their population, so you can actually argue that the bold is already happening and has been happening for a long time now.
 

Codeblue

Member
Damn GAF, you guys lean way lefter than NOVA. Ya'll are trying to make me out to be Stephen Miller when I'm just trying to make an argument for non-violence.

There's a famous Kwame Ture quote about how for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience.
 

greycolumbus

The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
I consider myself a libertarian and do believe libertarianism (or classical liberalism) stands against everything these pieces of shit murdering terrorists are defending in this rally, and yet, I have no doubt in my heart that there were at least some self-professed libertarians in there, marching side by side with the nazis, rationalizing to themselves that "uniting the right" is more important than... jesus fucking christ... not marching side by side with someone with a literal nazi flag screaming for the death of minorities.

I just know it. I just fucking know it.
I believe in small government, the free market, so on and so forth, but I can't really deny the movement attracts the kind of people marching side by side with nazis. I just fucking know it, man.

Well, it's a start.
 
Holy shit..FIX News is furiously trying to defend trump and make no association between him and the alt-right group, and saying that the peaceful march was anything but peaceful. This is amazing to watch lol..fucking spin factory.
 
Agreed that it is intentional. I'm confused about what other party is on the loose though unless you are implying that this is a made up additional person to go soft on this Nazi scum

Yeah, honestly, I'm not sure. Her tweets don't make a ton of sense.

This tweet makes *zero* sense. Is there another gray car with the front completely demolished driving around?

Don't read her tweets man, she is making shit up.

Yeah, I'm just gonna forget her shit for now.
 
I consider myself a libertarian and do believe libertarianism (or classical liberalism) stands against everything these pieces of shit murdering terrorists are defending in this rally, and yet, I have no doubt in my heart that there were at least some self-professed libertarians in there, marching side by side with the nazis, rationalizing to themselves that "uniting the right" is more important than... jesus fucking christ... not marching side by side with someone with a literal nazi flag screaming for the death of minorities.

I just know it. I just fucking know it.
I believe in small government, the free market, so on and so forth, but I can't really deny the movement attracts the kind of people marching side by side with nazis. I just fucking know it, man.

Well, you thought wrong. Defunding government agencies, privatizing their functions, and cutting universal services harms minorities and women 100 times more than it harms white people and men. More corporate decision making on a micro and macro scale in the economy harms minorities and women 100 times more than it harms white people and men. If you want weed to be legal that's cool, I agree. If you want less people being arrested, that's cool, I agree. But don't get it mixed up. Read the Libertarian Party enumerated platform. It actually seeks to remove and roll back 1964 CRA civil rights protections.
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
The time for violence is when you believe violence will achieve your goals better than peaceful methods.

If you believe that this attack is going to make the alt right more able to carry out their agenda, then yeah, I suppose you would support the left taking similar measures. But anyone with any skin in the game is trying to distance themselves from the attacks, because the politics of this are horrible, and so would, say, bombing or shooting up the rally before all this happened.

MLK didn't choose nonviolence because he was a starry-eyed idealist. He did it because he knew that power in America flows from public opinion, not from the barrel of a gun. That might change, at some point in the future, but right now we live in a liberal democracy that is at least partially responsive to the will of the public. Winning PR victories is vastly more important than killing a few grunts.
I agree with everything you've said here.
 
God help us all. Everyone freaked out over NK when this shit is right in fucking front of us. And we have some dumbasses concerned that we aren't doing enough on Gaf to discourage violence against Nazis.

Like that's the real problem here.
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
Yeah, honestly, I'm not sure. Her tweets don't make a ton of sense.





Yeah, I'm just gonna forget her shit for now.

She was streaming earlier and there was a grey Lexus that people were throwing rocks and bottles at. She is clarifying that the car that plowed into the counter-protesters was not the car she had on her stream previously. That image has cropped out the tweets explaining this.
 
People that are willing to drive their cars through groups of people for their garbage ideologies aren't fit for society and don't deserve mercy.

All you're doing by going soft on them is causing the movement to grow larger and larger. Plus these sentiments are already engrained into the police force.

There most likely won't be justice for any of the victims.



Maybe instead you should try listening to the minorities who are affected on a daily basis. No one has time to exhaust every possible avenue because minorities are literally being shot en masse by people that are supposed to PROTECT THEM.
I'm black, maybe people on this site should learn to stop assuming the identities of people based on what you view to be acceptable opinions, I knew that one of you would pop out and try to accuse me of being white.

And the bolded is wrong but ok.
 

zeemumu

Member
The world isn't that simple. This isn't some video game or movie where the only way to get a result is to "kill the bad guys". What you're suggestion is starting a civil war over this. And I think you know why that would be a bad idea

Starting a civil war isn't that simple, and doesn't seem to be what that person was suggesting
 
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