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Charlottesville alt-right white nationalist torch rally

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S

sonto340

Member
Wolvers said:
I don't give a shit, vigilantism and peacetime society are incompatible, so either admit that what you want is an open, declared state of violence like in 1930s Spain or let the law handle it. You can't cherry pick when it's okay to take matters into your own hands, do you want people kicking the shit out of you openly every time they disagree with you? Because the semantics of what constitutes a Nazi aside, the precedent you're wanting to set is: it's okay to commit violence against people who you don't agree with, especially when they're X group.

Who gets to decide who is a Nazi? Where does the line get drawn? What happens when the parameters for acceptable violence expands from Nazis to other groups?

I worry about some of you guys and how much you let emotion cloud rational judgement.
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You decide who a Nazi is by WHO IS LITERALLY FUCKING NAZI SALUTING AND CLAIMING MINORITIES ARE INFERIOR. These people are literally Nazis. The term isn’t just being thrown around.
 
W

Wvrs

Member
Akronis said:
Black people are getting killed in broad daylight by law enforcement and nothing is being done.

Talking to racists, Nazis, etc. doesn't fucking work.

You shouldn't need help figuring out what a facist/Nazi is btw, you're just trying to cloud the issue saying shit like that.
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I understand that, but it's not as simple as saying "let's fuck up all the guys with swastika tattoos", because ideologies are often internal and so after the guys who are brazenly neo-nazis have been dealt with, where do you go from there?

I'd think very carefully before advocating for civil violence between citizens of one country, it's a hard bottle to stop again when once it's been opened. I'm saying this as a non-American looking in, and so I appreciate it's not quite as emotional and immediately relevant to me, but I've seen plenty of hate preachers in my country. It always makes me seethe, but I'd exhaust every other possible avenue before I considered violence.

Edit: see posts above, do we not have capacity to talk things through anymore (on an Internet forum of all places!) Can't try to expand the arena of discussion to anything remotely against the grain or you get crucified.
 
T

The Kree

Banned
Wolvers said:
I don't give a shit, vigilantism and peacetime society are incompatible, so either admit that what you want is an open, declared state of violence like in 1930s Spain or let the law handle it. You can't cherry pick when it's okay to take matters into your own hands, do you want people kicking the shit out of you openly every time they disagree with you? Because the semantics of what constitutes a Nazi aside, the precedent you're wanting to set is: it's okay to commit violence against people who you don't agree with, especially when they're X group.

Who gets to decide who is a Nazi? Where does the line get drawn? What happens when the parameters for acceptable violence expands from Nazis to other groups?

I worry about some of you guys and how much you let emotion cloud rational judgement.
Click to expand...
Must be nice to not have any skin in the game.

Stay home and be safe.
 
A

Akronis

Member
Bounceounce said:
There's a difference between that and tortue.
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People that are willing to drive their cars through groups of people for their garbage ideologies aren't fit for society and don't deserve mercy.

All you're doing by going soft on them is causing the movement to grow larger and larger. Plus these sentiments are already engrained into the police force.

There most likely won't be justice for any of the victims.

Wolvers said:
I understand that, but it's not as simple as saying "let's fuck up all the guys with swastika tattoos", because ideologies are often internal and so after the guys who are brazenly neo-nazis have been dealt with, where do you go from there?

I'd think very carefully before advocating for civil violence between citizens of one country, it's a hard bottle to stop again when once it's been opened. I'm saying this as a non-American looking in, and so I appreciate it's not quite as emotional and immediately relevant to me, but I've seen plenty of hate preachers in my country. It always makes me seethe, but I'd exhaust every other possible avenue before I considered violence.
Click to expand...

Maybe instead you should try listening to the minorities who are affected on a daily basis. No one has time to exhaust every possible avenue because minorities are literally being shot en masse by people that are supposed to PROTECT THEM.
 
K

King Tubby

Member
Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz 7m7 minutes ago
More
Anyway several police officers at the station here think the guy running people down wasn't malicious. They said the driver was scared
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You can't make this shit up. Fuck the police.
 
T

TetraGenesis

Member
Don't get excited just yet.

mMwVzYN.jpg


Justice hasn't been served yet and now it seems like it won't.
 
C

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
cloudscale said:
Damn GAF, you guys lean way lefter than NOVA. Ya'll are trying to make me out to be Stephen Miller when I'm just trying to make an argument for non-violence.
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I appreciate what you're saying, but I think you'd agree that there may eventually be a time when non-violence and reliance on existing institutions may not be enough. The issue is when that time comes; to some people, it already has. I'm not sure I agree, but it's definitely closer.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
For those that still call people "leftists" and "Antifas" and "Bernie bros", this is what they have in store for you on the other side. You'll just last a bit longer than us, so you'll just extend your misery. Watch how they won't even condemn it or just call the man "confused" rather than a terrorist and how the "left really is to blame, taking the America he knows away from him!" :(.
 
C

cloudscale

Banned
geestack said:
i don't think you can say that 'these are the actions of a spare few extreme' when they just held a rally in charlottesville and elected a president who they think is the 2nd coming of hitler.

also, your belief in the justice system is misplaced considering that republican politicians are introducing legislation to PROTECT people who run over peaceful protestors in the streets: NC House Passes Bill Shielding Drivers Who Hit Protesters

your theoretical moment of reckoning is already passing you by and you choose to keep debating the nazis. the concentration camp aint that far off, you just want to think it is.
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How many protesters were at the protest? How many counter protesters? Further, can you give me numbers on how many white supremacists are in the United States? If they are substantial numbers, then I'll agree with your disagreement. :)

I agree that the NC bill is extremely concerning.

Not sure how to debate that last point. I don't think I'm anywhere near being put into a concentration camp, tbh. All of the DC area would probably erupt in riots way before we got anywhere close to that.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
cloudscale said:
Because that's not how we do it in this country. We don't send vigilantes out into the streets to execute ass beatings before criminals' arrests are made. And, in my opinion, retaliatory violence is an extremely dangerous path to go down.
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Not how "we do it in this country"?
Thats what metro police departments do in Black neighborhoods. The DOJ even wrote whole reports about two dozen such departments. FOH, "we dont send vigilantes into the streets to beat peoples ass", have you paid attention to law enforcement and the US criminal justice system once in your entire life?
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
King Tubby said:
You can't make this shit up. Fuck the police.
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Just let the justice system do it's work!1! /s

theignoramus said:
Not how "we do it in this country"?
Thats what metro police departments do in Black neighborhoods. The DOJ even wrote whole reports about two dozen such departments. FOH, "we dont send vigilantes into the streets to beat peoples ass", have you paid attention to law enforcement and the US criminal justice system once in your entire life?
Click to expand...
Literally have the president of the united states saying for officers to rough up suspects while crowds cheer and some people are preaching that the justice system will work as intended. The lack of perspective is at best, infuriating.
 
Z

Zen Aku

Member
cloudscale said:
Damn GAF, you guys lean way lefter than NOVA. Ya'll are trying to make me out to be Stephen Miller when I'm just trying to make an argument for non-violence.
Click to expand...
Your argument is idiotic. History taught us that standing up against oppression and fascism with violence is the only answer, time and time again.
 
H

Heroman

Banned
cloudscale said:
Because that's not how we do it in this country. We don't send vigilantes out into the streets to execute ass beatings before criminals' arrests are made. And, in my opinion, retaliatory violence is an extremely dangerous path to go down.
Click to expand...
They do that all the time in black neighborhood.
 
T

TetraGenesis

Member
Darryl M R said:
Is this true? I thought people slowed down the video to confirm that it was a muscle car that sped into the group and then backed up.
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No, I mean, it was 110% intentional. It was an intentional terrorist attack. No question. But the police want to be soft and the nazi is still on the loose.
 
C

cloudscale

Banned
theignoramus said:
Not how "we do it in this country"?
Thats what metro police departments do in Black neighborhoods. The DOJ even wrote whole reports about two dozen such departments. FOH, "we dont send vigilantes into the streets to beat peoples ass", have you been paying any attention to law enforcement and the US criminal justice system once in your entire life?
Click to expand...

Wait, so you're arguing that sending law enforcement into the streets to beat up minorities is the right thing to do? Just because the bad cops do it, we should do it too?
 
V

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Wolvers said:
I don't give a shit, vigilantism and peacetime society are incompatible, so either admit that what you want is an open, declared state of violence like in 1930s Spain or let the law handle it. You can't cherry pick when it's okay to take matters into your own hands, do you want people kicking the shit out of you openly every time they disagree with you? Because the semantics of what constitutes a Nazi aside, the precedent you're wanting to set is: it's okay to commit violence against people who you don't agree with, especially when they're X group.

Who gets to decide who is a Nazi? Where does the line get drawn? What happens when the parameters for acceptable violence expands from Nazis to other groups?

I worry about some of you guys and how much you let emotion cloud rational judgement.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's only you, who doesn't really want to take any stance either way, (because me and every other poster here knows that none of this impacts you at all negatively) that is rational. No one else is. Ironic that you are defending difference of opinion yet when people say you are wrong that instantly they are being irrational and only your opinion is rational.

Isn't that exactly what you're saying these "vigilantes" shouldn't be doing? That they shouldn't be determining what views are rational and what views aren't?
 
D

Darryl M R

Member
LiK said:
Looked like the car from the videos. The dude might be just making up shit to the cops.
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From the videos I'm not seeing any Lexus and someone posted a picture of how it looks identical to a modified Charger.

Sounds funky.

JBourne said:
This image cuts out the tweet above it, she was referring to another vehicle that was on her stream earlier.
Click to expand...

Ah I'll go check out the thread to make sure I'm fully tracking what she is referencing then. Thanks

TetraGenesis said:
No, I mean, it was 110% intentional. It was an intentional terrorist attack. No question. But the police want to be soft and the nazi is still on the loose.
Click to expand...

Agreed that it is intentional. I'm confused about what other party is on the loose though unless you are implying that this is a made up additional person to go soft on this Nazi scum
 
D

Dynasty

Member
If this person was anything that looked like a Muslim, Donald Trump would be tweeting constantly and asking why Sadiq Khan hasnt responded and properly denounced these acts.
 
S

Snarky(HEART)

Banned
cloudscale said:
Wait, so you're arguing that sending law enforcement into the streets to beat up minorities is the right thing to do? Just because the bad cops do it, we should do it too?
Click to expand...

You said it's "not how we do it in this country."

It is, to minorities.

This is a white supremacist rally where anti-racism protestors were mowed down, and you think we shouldn't fight back.

You are part of the problem.
 
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