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[Dirk Benedict]

ChatGPT delivers sermon to packed German church, tells congregants not to fear death

More than 300 people attended an AI-generated church service at St. Paul's Church in Fürth, Bavaria, during which a ChatGPT avatar delivered a sermon saying not to fear death.

www.foxnews.com

Ok we got AI telling us to worship Jeebus now as if it's not bad enough I got gaffers telling me to do so. Someone please make it make sense. That's it I want off this rock NOW.

Have a Blessed Day.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

you’re embarrassing yourself dude. If you don’t believe in anything then just live with it and stop trying to convince yourself, nobody is trying to change your mind.

Don’t believe jesus is god != don’t believe in anything. It’s just fun for me to repeat the silly stories they indoctrinated me with and highlight the plot holes. If it causes someone to examine their own doubts it’s a bonus.

 

[daffyduck]

 

[NickFire]

This AI stuff creeps me out more and more by the week.

 

[FunkMiller]

That's disrespectful and heretical.

 

[AJUMP23]

If German Protestant churches have fallen into the same ruin the American Prot churches have, this might be an upgrade. The cold, calculating AI would probably tow a harder line than what the preachers do. It's kinda genius if they began with the rights seeds. I'd very much like to try and recreate Martin Luther with the help of AI.

As long as we get Luther and not Calvin.

 

[01011001]

ChatGPT delivers sermon to packed German church, tells congregants not to fear death

More than 300 people attended an AI-generated church service at St. Paul's Church in Fürth, Bavaria, during which a ChatGPT avatar delivered a sermon saying not to fear death.

www.foxnews.com

Ok we got AI telling us to worship Jeebus now as if it's not bad enough I got gaffers telling me to do so. Someone please make it make sense. That's it I want off this rock NOW.

hey, at least it's not someone pretending to believe all that shit, and it's just an AI doing what it's told to do.

so I think this is the more honest version

 

[EverydayBeast]

No issue with chat gpt holding church service.

 

[BlackTron]

Sounds like lazy priests to me. I checked the link. Nothing like church service and the podium has HP and Thinkpad laptops doing the work.

Thanks to the magic of AI, you can now coast tax-free just for setting up a laptop!

 

[Zathalus]

All praise the Omnissiah!

 

[simpatico]

As long as we get Luther and not Calvin.

I see no need or usefulness is resurrecting Calvin's consciousness. But Luther could be fun.

 

[Amory]

I thought I was being aggressive aggressive, been a while since we had a religious brawl in here

Being anti religion seems very…quaint nowadays. Religions not nearly the force it once was in the west and what, is the world better? How’s collective nihilism working out?

I get not believing but I can’t understand where atheistic passion comes from. By most measures you’re winning the war and the alternative isn’t any better.

 

[Days like these...]

Being anti religion seems very…quaint nowadays. Religions not nearly the force it once was in the west and what, is the world better? How’s collective nihilism working out?

I get not believing but I can’t understand where atheistic passion comes from. By most measures you’re winning the war and the alternative isn’t any better.

It's not nihilism it's more apatheism than anything at least on my part and to answer your question I think the world is better.

 

[funkygunther]

Being anti religion seems very…quaint nowadays. Religions not nearly the force it once was in the west and what, is the world better? How’s collective nihilism working out?

I get not believing but I can’t understand where atheistic passion comes from. By most measures you’re winning the war and the alternative isn’t any better.

By "collective nihilism" I think you mean "secular". Religion hasn't been a force in the west since the 1700s, but there are always weirdos that make it their mission to try and reverse time. In America they're even sometimes successful.

And how is secularism working out? Great, go and ask any Scandinavian country.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I get not believing but I can’t understand where atheistic passion comes from.

You don’t get what’s passionate not to be beholden to a millennia of outdated beliefs and not subject to an organisation that cause immeasurable harm to millions of people throughout its history?

If you are an American and not Roman Catholic - you understand the largest group of Christians in the world considers you almost a heretic?

 

[IFireflyl]

You don’t get what’s passionate not to be beholden to a millennia of outdated beliefs and not subject to an organisation that cause immeasurable harm to millions of people throughout its history?

If you are an American and not Roman Catholic - you understand the largest group of Christians in the world considers you almost a heretic?

Jesus was also considered a heretic, so I'm fine with that label.

 

[funkygunther]

Jesus was also considered a heretic, so I'm fine with that label.

Jesus' heresy became orthodoxy

 

[DeaconOfTheDank]

Would you say most of the folks in this thread are anti-Christianity or anti-religion?

So if I'm a believer in the simulation hypothesis and conformal cyclic cosmology, is that cool?

 

[funkygunther]

Would you say most of the folks in this thread are anti-Christianity or anti-religion?

So if I'm a believer in the simulation hypothesis and conformal cyclic cosmology, is that cool?

It doesn't matter what is cool or not, its not like believing one thing is inherently better than believing anything else. What matters is how your chosen belief system affects you as a member of society and your relationships to other people. Abrahamic faiths come with a load of this moral baggage. You could believe in Allah, or flying spaghetti monsters, or ancient nano aliens. Its immaterial until it has a notable effect on the material world, until your belief causes an action, then you can examine your belief and reconfigure your alignment to it.

 

[DeaconOfTheDank]

It doesn't matter what is cool or not, it's not like believing one thing is inherently better than believing anything else. What matters is how your chosen belief system affects you as a member of society and your relationships to other people. Abrahamic faiths come with a load of this moral baggage. You could believe in Allah, or flying spaghetti monsters, or ancient nano aliens. It's immaterial until it has a notable effect on the material world, until your belief causes an action, then you can examine your belief and reconfigure your alignment to it.

Seems more like an issue with corrupt religious institutions and hyper-orthodox individuals that try to shove their beliefs down another's throats

What I'm trying to say is - I don't think that simply being a Christian makes anyone inherently bad. This might not be what you think, but I definitely get the vibe from many people in this thread that this is the case.

 

[funkygunther]

Seems more like an issue with corrupt religious institutions and hyper-orthodox individuals that try to shove their beliefs down another's throats

What I'm trying to say is - I don't think that simply being a Christian makes anyone inherently bad. This might not be what you think, but I definitely get the vibe from many people in this thread that this is the case.

It depends how their belief affects their actions. A Christian gets their morals from the Bible, and the Bible is full of bad ideas that when acted on (slavery, women's rights) are a net negative to society. The Bible even calls for a theocracy, or at best says that any government is God's own. If a Christian wants to align with that it's their prerogative but it does not, at minimum, make them free from criticism. You don't even need to be part of a corrupt or hyper-orthodox group for that. In fact, you have to corrupt your religion in order to modernise it and the most corrupted religious institutions are the ones we still have.

 

[DeaconOfTheDank]

It depends how their belief affects their actions. A Christian gets their morals from the Bible, and the Bible is full of bad ideas that when acted on (slavery, women's rights) are a net negative to society. The Bible even calls for a theocracy, or at best says that any government is God's own. If a Christian wants to align with that it's their prerogative but it does not, at minimum, make them free from criticism. You don't even need to be part of a corrupt or hyper-orthodox group for that. In fact, you have to corrupt your religion in order to modernise it and the most corrupted religious institutions are the ones we still have.

Looks like we mostly see eye to eye on this then.

I'll be the first to admit that the Bible is written by imperfect individuals who may have let their own biases influence the scripture. Approaching the text with that lens along with the historical context makes things a lot easier to dismiss or give the benefit of the doubt.

That said, it's definitely not all bad. In fact, I would argue a majority of the teachings therein serve as a good set of morals values to tune your compass with. Jesus himself, whether you believe he is divine or not, is an excellent role model for upstanding moral character.

I'm personally of the mind that it's up to the individual to choose a set of principles to live by. Some of the blatantly sexist and/or other questionable teachings found in the texts can and should be left by the wayside. Obviously, some people would tell you otherwise which is why I caution against hyper-orthodoxy and anachronistic values.

Just because someone might call themselves a Christian does not mean they need to follow everything written in the Bible down to the letter.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Well, lol, I guess? I am from Bavaria, Fürth is not that far but I did not hear about that.

Ach gugg ermol, ei Frangge as dea Näh fo Füdd!

Since religion is bullshit anyway, it doesn't really matter who talks to the crowd lmao

Church of the FSM is the only Religion

 

[funkygunther]

Looks like we mostly see eye to eye on this then.

I'll be the first to admit that the Bible is written by imperfect individuals who may have let their own biases influence the scripture. Approaching the text with that lens along with the historical context makes things a lot easier to dismiss or give the benefit of the doubt.

That said, it's definitely not all bad. In fact, I would argue a majority of the teachings therein serve as a good set of morals values to tune your compass with. Jesus himself, whether you believe he is divine or not, is an excellent role model for upstanding moral character.

I'm personally of the mind that it's up to the individual to choose a set of principles to live by. Some of the blatantly sexist and/or other questionable teachings found in the texts can and should be left by the wayside. Obviously, some people would tell you otherwise which is why I caution against hyper-orthodoxy and anachronistic values.

Just because someone might call themselves a Christian does not mean they need to follow everything written in the Bible down to the letter.

People are free to identify and label themselves how they want. But if you have to qualify your chosen label each time by not caring about certain Christian beliefs or telling people you're not that kind of Christian then I question the value of the label. If you treat the Bible as a work of art that can tell us about the human condition then so can any book, and when you get to that level then you can call yourself Christian but you might also be Jewish, or just a big fan of Douglas Adams, because you're using your freedom to pick your moral choices and not having them dictated by your identity.

 

[H4ze]

Ach gugg ermol, ei Frangge as dea Näh fo Füdd!

Fast, bin im Süden, schwäbisch is da noch eher drin

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Being anti religion seems very…quaint nowadays. Religions not nearly the force it once was in the west and what, is the world better? How’s collective nihilism working out?

I get not believing but I can’t understand where atheistic passion comes from. By most measures you’re winning the war and the alternative isn’t any better.

It seems quaint to me that there’s a narrative among believers that the severity of the world’s problems can be directly linked to a decrease in faith. You folks sure do like to play the hits. The atheist passion is mostly from ex-christians who were lied to by people they trusted when they were very young and impressionable. I was taught the bible is literally true with storybooks with cartoons of Isaac tied up on an altar and a knife in his father’s raised hand. People still teach this drivel to their poor kids who don’t know any better, and they justify it by saying it has some moral value even if the stories are all made up. Well I say it has nothing to teach us about morality, none of it’s true, and it’s time to let it go.

P.S. this fight started when my boy D Days like these... got jumped by christian GAF for politely expressing his discomfort at receiving blessings from sanctimonious strangers. Real stinky attitude on the GAF faithful if you ask me, and I’m happy to return it in kind.

 

[Raonak]

Religion is such a strange thing in the modern world.

It's mostly a way to make people to feel better about death by promising them an afterlife.

It also reveals that some people have an innate desire to worship, even if it's something that does not interact with them. It's very similar to simping.

In any case, I can 100% see there being an AI religion created in the next 10 years.

And honestly. That sounds way more interesting than any other religion because the entity you interact with will actually talk back. It removes the blind faith part of religion.

 

[Days like these...]

It seems quaint to me that there’s a narrative among believers that the severity of the world’s problems can be directly linked to a decrease in faith. You folks sure do like to play the hits. The atheist passion is mostly from ex-christians who were lied to by people they trusted when they were very young and impressionable. I was taught the bible is literally true with storybooks with cartoons of Isaac tied up on an altar and a knife in his father’s raised hand. People still teach this drivel to their poor kids who don’t know any better, and they justify it by saying it has some moral value even if the stories are all made up. Well I say it has nothing to teach us about morality, none of it’s true, and it’s time to let it go.

P.S. this fight started when my boy D Days like these... got jumped by christian GAF for politely expressing his discomfort at receiving blessings from sanctimonious strangers. Real stinky attitude on the GAF faithful if you ask me, and I’m happy to return it in kind.

My exact words were "Oh, I'm not a believer." and certain gaffers went into a tizzy then straight into attack mode, projecting and ad hominems. Fun times

 

[IFireflyl]

It depends how their belief affects their actions. A Christian gets their morals from the Bible, and the Bible is full of bad ideas that when acted on (slavery, women's rights) are a net negative to society.

The Bible does not call for, nor does it condone, slavery. The Bible also does not call for, nor does it condone, putting down women or treating them as inferior. The first people Jesus appeared to after his resurrection were women. That was purposeful.

The Bible even calls for a theocracy, or at best says that any government is God's own.

That is not what the Bible calls for. Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's. Does God want a government that supports the morals of the Bible? Absolutely. But that is because God knows what is right, and what is prosperous for the soul.

If a Christian wants to align with that it's their prerogative but it does not, at minimum, make them free from criticism. You don't even need to be part of a corrupt or hyper-orthodox group for that. In fact, you have to corrupt your religion in order to modernise it and the most corrupted religious institutions are the ones we still have.

The issue is that people tend to attack the religion and the person. You don't call out one person who is saying something that you consider wrong. You make sweeping judgement against Christianity itself. Talking about corrupt institutions is pointless. Religious institutions aren't the only institutions with corruption. Corruption is everywhere, and it is because humanity is flawed and corrupt (aka, sinful). The entire message of the Bible is love. Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second-greatest commandment was to love others. There are people who will claim to be religious and will not adhere to these commandments. Until Jesus returns and Satan is locked away forever, this is going to occur.

As an aside, love doesn't mean letting people live the way they want to live. If a parent sees that a kid is engaging in bad behaviors, the parent will (or should) correct the kid. This usually isn't fun for the kid, but it's good for them. In the same vein, Christians are called to tell people about the Gospel (which is the Good News of Jesus Christ). It isn't our job to force our beliefs down their throats, but we are called to tell people so that they can have every opportunity to become saved. This requires telling them that they are sinners. This is taken as an insult by many people, but if you tell a liar that they are a liar, where is the insult?

We're all sinners. The Christian telling you that you're a sinner is also a sinner. They shouldn't be telling you this with an air of superiority. I, as a born-again Christian, am not better than you, as someone who doesn't believe in God. The job of a Christian isn't to fix non-Christians. It is to spread the message of the Gospel. The non-Christian can either accept Jesus, or reject Jesus. If they do accept him, it is the Holy Spirit's job to show this new Christian the areas where they need to change. I believe that homosexuality is a sin. I will never treat a homosexual like they are diseased. They are loved by God, which means that I need to love them as well. Their sin isn't somehow worse than my sin. The only difference between myself and a homosexual who doesn't believe in God, is that I have Jesus and they don't. I want them to know about Jesus and accept Jesus. Full stop. That is the entire purpose of Christianity. Love God. Love others.

Penn (from Penn and Teller) doesn't believe in God, but he appreciates evangelicals. At least, he appreciates evangelicals that are spreading a message in love, and not trying to browbeat someone (which is not what the Bible calls for). Something he said, which I love, is, "How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? If I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you and you didn’t believe it, and that truck was bearing down on you, there’s a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that." He doesn't believe in God, but he appreciates the people who do believe, and who love others enough to tell them about Jesus. Again, not browbeating people. That's wrong, and that's not what Jesus did.

 

[funkygunther]

The Bible does not call for, nor does it condone, slavery. The Bible also does not call for, nor does it condone, putting down women or treating them as inferior. The first people Jesus appeared to after his resurrection were women. That was purposeful.



That is not what the Bible calls for. Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's. Does God want a government that supports the morals of the Bible? Absolutely. But that is because God knows what is right, and what is prosperous for the soul.



The issue is that people tend to attack the religion and the person. You don't call out one person who is saying something that you consider wrong. You make sweeping judgement against Christianity itself. Talking about corrupt institutions is pointless. Religious institutions aren't the only institutions with corruption. Corruption is everywhere, and it is because humanity is flawed and corrupt (aka, sinful). The entire message of the Bible is love. Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second-greatest commandment was to love others. There are people who will claim to be religious and will not adhere to these commandments. Until Jesus returns and Satan is locked away forever, this is going to occur.

As an aside, love doesn't mean letting people live the way they want to live. If a parent sees that a kid is engaging in bad behaviors, the parent will (or should) correct the kid. This usually isn't fun for the kid, but it's good for them. In the same vein, Christians are called to tell people about the Gospel (which is the Good News of Jesus Christ). It isn't our job to force our beliefs down their throats, but we are called to tell people so that they can have every opportunity to become saved. This requires telling them that they are sinners. This is taken as an insult by many people, but if you tell a liar that they are a liar, where is the insult?

We're all sinners. The Christian telling you that you're a sinner is also a sinner. They shouldn't be telling you this with an air of superiority. I, as a born-again Christian, am not better than you, as someone who doesn't believe in God. The job of a Christian isn't to fix non-Christians. It is to spread the message of the Gospel. The non-Christian can either accept Jesus, or reject Jesus. If they do accept him, it is the Holy Spirit's job to show this new Christian the areas where they need to change. I believe that homosexuality is a sin. I will never treat a homosexual like they are diseased. They are loved by God, which means that I need to love them as well. Their sin isn't somehow worse than my sin. The only difference between myself and a homosexual who doesn't believe in God, is that I have Jesus and they don't. I want them to know about Jesus and accept Jesus. Full stop. That is the entire purpose of Christianity. Love God. Love others.

Penn (from Penn and Teller) doesn't believe in God, but he appreciates evangelicals. At least, he appreciates evangelicals that are spreading a message in love, and not trying to browbeat someone (which is not what the Bible calls for). Something he said, which I love, is, "How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? If I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you and you didn’t believe it, and that truck was bearing down on you, there’s a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that." He doesn't believe in God, but he appreciates the people who do believe, and who love others enough to tell them about Jesus. Again, not browbeating people. That's wrong, and that's not what Jesus did.

Exodus 21-7, that's a double whammy right there. You need to know your chosen book better.

The rest of your post doesn't actually address anything you quoted of me. With strawmen saying that I make sweeping judgments about Christianity as a whole rather than pointing out when individuals are wrong which I've done to you, in this thread, already.

On the subject of sinning, it doesn't mean much to the irreligious (or even those of a different faith) to be called blasphemer or to be told they're going to hell by one of another particular faith. They reject your faith so they reject your threats. A truck is a real and observable threat, sinning is not. The comparison is absurd.

I dont care how much love a stranger has for me, especially if that love is wrapped up in a bunch of conditional notions. And when that love, so called, permeates society and sins are weighed up against each other in this mortal realm (as is done by one of your other sects), and when some sinners are allowed freedoms that other sinners are not then we have a problem.

 

[MHubert]

It's not nihilism it's more apatheism than anything at least on my part and to answer your question I think the world is better.

You don't think nihilism would contain a certain amount of apatheism?

 

[funkygunther]

You don't think nihilism would contain a certain amount of apatheism?

Having apathy is not the same as being nihilistic.

 

[MHubert]

Having apathy is not the same as being nihilistic.

I think that depends on your motivation to share said apathy with the rest of the world.

 

[funkygunther]

I think that depends on your motivation to share said apathy with the rest of the world.

No they just mean different things

 

[MHubert]

No they just mean different things

Ok but saying it can only be one and not the other is rather disingenuous. Why can't being apathetic be a form of Nihilism?

 

[winjer]

At least ChatGPT won't molest children.
So that is a big improvement.

 

[funkygunther]

Ok but saying it can only be one and not the other is rather disingenuous. Why can't being apathetic be a form of Nihilism?

You can be apathetic and not nihilistic, nihilistic but not apathetic, and nihilistic and apathetic. Like a lot of things you can be a combination. Not sure why you would want to draw any specific link when OP has said he is not nihilistic, yet you insist he is for some reason.

 

[IDKFA]

In any case, I can 100% see there being an AI religion created in the next 10 years.

And honestly. That sounds way more interesting than any other religion because the entity you interact with will actually talk back. It removes the blind faith part of religion.

This will happen. Advanced AI mixed with quantum computers will create the closest thing we'll see as a God.

For example, people right now are working on biological immortality, but at a human rate it could take many, many decades. AI with quantum computing could figure this out over a weekend or less. It could also easily create an "afterlife" by figuring out a way to upload our mind into some hyper realistic virtual world upon death. Your own personal heaven.

 

[MHubert]

You can be apathetic and not nihilistic, nihilistic but not apathetic, and nihilistic and apathetic. Like a lot of things you can be a combination. Not sure why you would want to draw any specific link when OP has said he is not nihilistic, yet you insist he is for some reason.

I'm not, OP was the one who felt the need to specify that he is apathetic rather than nihilistic. Given the thread, I think that's a 'funny' distinction to make. Just making light of that.

 

[funkygunther]

I'm not, OP was the one who felt the need to specify that he is apathetic rather than nihilistic. Given the thread, I think that's a 'funny' distinction to make. Just making light of that.

He was accused of nihilism and corrected it.

 

[MHubert]

He was accused of nihilism and corrected it.

until I said he was probably both

what a story

 

[IFireflyl]

Exodus 21-7, that's a double whammy right there. You need to know your chosen book better.

Slave was the term used for indentured servant. People in prison today would be considered slaves back then. You're looking at the words of the Bible with today's definition and cultural impact, but you can't view history through a lens of modernism. Today's definition of slavery is NOT the same as it was thousands of years ago. Additionally, in the Old Testament God was allowing the culture to be set in its ways, and he was slowly changing them with the laws. In the New Testament, God shook things up and said, "Actually, there was a whole lot more to it then I initially told you. You just weren't capable of making the changes so radically, so I helped you out by allowing you to change more gradually."

The rest of your post doesn't actually address anything you quoted of me. With strawmen saying that I make sweeping judgments about Christianity as a whole rather than pointing out when individuals are wrong which I've done to you, in this thread, already.

I made a general point.

On the subject of sinning, it doesn't mean much to the irreligious (or even those of a different faith) to be called blasphemer or to be told they're going to hell by one of another particular faith. They reject your faith so they reject your threats. A truck is a real and observable threat, sinning is not. The comparison is absurd.

It isn't a threat. It's a belief. If I'm right, I want to make sure other people know it. Ergo, the evangelism. You're free to reject God.

I dont care how much love a stranger has for me, especially if that love is wrapped up in a bunch of conditional notions.

This has nothing to do with anything I said. Also, all love is wrapped up in conditional notions. See the example of a parent disciplining a child.

And when that love, so called, permeates society and sins are weighed up against each other in this mortal realm (as is done by one of your other sects), and when some sinners are allowed freedoms that other sinners are not then we have a problem.

A sinner is a sinner. I don't know what you're talking about with this "allowed freedoms" bit. A murderer generally goes to jail and/or is executed. That's punishment for a crime. That crime is also a sin. There can be punishment for sin in this life.

 

[daffyduck]

Firefly, why are you even bothering responding to him? He's a hypocrite.

 

[funkygunther]

Slave was the term used for indentured servant. People in prison today would be considered slaves back then. You're looking at the words of the Bible with today's definition and cultural impact, but you can't view history through a lens of modernism. Today's definition of slavery is NOT the same as it was thousands of years ago. Additionally, in the Old Testament God was allowing the culture to be set in its ways, and he was slowly changing them with the laws. In the New Testament, God shook things up and said, "Actually, there was a whole lot more to it then I initially told you. You just weren't capable of making the changes so radically, so I helped you out by allowing you to change more gradually."

Selling of people is pretty blatant, as is using the words "slave" and "master". You can say no actually selling means this, and master means this, and slave means this...but in reality they mean exactly what is written, because the language has been updated to mean exactly what is written.

It isn't a threat. It's a belief. If I'm right, I want to make sure other people know it. Ergo, the evangelism. You're free to reject God.

You want people to "know" your "if"...why? When will you know your if?

A sinner is a sinner. I don't know what you're talking about with this "allowed freedoms" bit. A murderer generally goes to jail and/or is executed. That's punishment for a crime. That crime is also a sin. There can be punishment for sin in this life.

The punishment is for the crime, not the sin. Or do you just mean being cast out of some particular religious denomination as being the punishment for a sin?

Firefly, why are you even bothering responding to him? He's a hypocrite.

Where is my hypocrisy?

until I said he was probably both

what a story

you said it is a "form of", a version of...not both, that's actually what I said, and there's no probably about it either as that's not quantifiable

 

[Shifty1897]

and to answer your question I think the world is better.

 

[IDKFA]

These religious debates are pointless. Nobody is going to be converted to religion and nobody is going to give up their faith.

Let's accept and respect our different views.

 

[IFireflyl]

Selling of people is pretty blatant, as is using the words "slave" and "master". You can say no actually selling means this, and master means this, and slave means this...but in reality they mean exactly what is written, because the language has been updated to mean exactly what is written.

Context is important. A daughter couldn't be sold unless certain criteria where met. She had to me unmarriageable, and the father couldn't sell her except for in the most dire of circumstances where he literally had no other goods/services in which to provide. In the context of being in a desperate situation, selling the daughter into servitude would mean that the daughter isn't suffering for the father's misfortune. Additionally, this servitude would only last for a maximum of six years, and the person that was buying the daughter had very strict rules on how she must be treated. This servitude didn't give the purchaser carte blanche to treat the girl however the purchaser wanted. It wasn't like when black people where enslaved in the U.S. and they were forced to work themselves to the bone with little to no restitution. You're looking at verses out of context because you're assuming that modern interpretations of words and meanings were the same thousands of years ago. Meanings change over time.

You want people to "know" your "if"...why? When will you know your if?

I believe that I am correct, and I will share my belief. You cannot disprove my belief, so why are you so dead-set on arguing with me? What does it matter if I believe this, or that I tell others about my belief? How do you think the universe was created? What evidence do you have that proves that all matter simply always existed in a small area, and then it suddenly burst outwards and everything started forming from that explosion? How can you reconcile that the matter (which science tells us cannot be created or destroyed) in our universe simply always existed, and but you can't reconcile that there could be a creator who exists outside of our universe who created everything within our universe? If you don't believe in a creator, what proof do you have that living organisms can spontaneously emerge from non-living matter? All atheists have are theories as to our origin, none of which have been proven. How is this any different than my belief in God and in Jesus Christ? At least with my belief we have historical evidence of Jesus, even from non-Biblical sources. Your belief that life started out of non-life has no evidence to support the theories. How can you attack my belief while your belief is equally lacking evidence?

The punishment is for the crime, not the sin. Or do you just mean being cast out of some particular religious denomination as being the punishment for a sin?

I don't know what you're talking about. A sin is a crime. Whether or not the world considers it a crime is irrelevant. I consider murder to be a sin. The crime and the sin are the same thing: murder. I also consider adultery to be a sin/crime, but the world doesn't generally punish that sin because most of the world doesn't see it as a crime.

 

[funkygunther]

Context is important. A daughter couldn't be sold unless certain criteria where met. She had to me unmarriageable, and the father couldn't sell her except for in the most dire of circumstances where he literally had no other goods/services in which to provide. In the context of being in a desperate situation, selling the daughter into servitude would mean that the daughter isn't suffering for the father's misfortune. Additionally, this servitude would only last for a maximum of six years, and the person that was buying the daughter had very strict rules on how she must be treated. This servitude didn't give the purchaser carte blanche to treat the girl however the purchaser wanted. It wasn't like when black people where enslaved in the U.S. and they were forced to work themselves to the bone with little to no restitution. You're looking at verses out of context because you're assuming that modern interpretations of words and meanings were the same thousands of years ago. Meanings change over time.

You're putting more qualifiers here now, but the daughter is still being sold. Are you going to accept that when you said the Bible does not condone the treatment of women as inferior, you were wrong?

I believe that I am correct, and I will share my belief. You cannot disprove my belief, so why are you so dead-set on arguing with me? What does it matter if I believe this, or that I tell others about my belief? How do you think the universe was created? What evidence do you have that proves that all matter simply always existed in a small area, and then it suddenly burst outwards and everything started forming from that explosion? How can you reconcile that the matter (which science tells us cannot be created or destroyed) in our universe simply always existed, and but you can't reconcile that there could be a creator who exists outside of our universe who created everything within our universe? If you don't believe in a creator, what proof do you have that living organisms can spontaneously emerge from non-living matter? All atheists have are theories as to our origin, none of which have been proven. How is this any different than my belief in God and in Jesus Christ? At least with my belief we have historical evidence of Jesus, even from non-Biblical sources. Your belief that life started out of non-life has no evidence to support the theories. How can you attack my belief while your belief is equally lacking evidence?

You used the words "know" and "if". I am attacking your use of those. I'm not attacking your belief, I'm asking questions (that you aren't answering) about it. Like I've said already people are free to believe whatever hokum they like. You're the one that brought up your belief.

I don't know what you're talking about. A sin is a crime. Whether or not the world considers it a crime is irrelevant. I consider murder to be a sin. The crime and the sin are the same thing: murder. I also consider adultery to be a sin/crime, but the world doesn't generally punish that sin because most of the world doesn't see it as a crime.

You say a sin is a crime and homosexuality is a sin. What is the punishment for homosexuality?

 

[daffyduck]

...I believe that I am correct, and I will share my belief. You cannot disprove my belief, so why are you so dead-set on arguing with me? What does it matter if I believe this, or that I tell others about my belief? How do you think the universe was created? What evidence do you have that proves that all matter simply always existed in a small area, and then it suddenly burst outwards and everything started forming from that explosion? How can you reconcile that the matter (which science tells us cannot be created or destroyed) in our universe simply always existed, and but you can't reconcile that there could be a creator who exists outside of our universe who created everything within our universe? If you don't believe in a creator, what proof do you have that living organisms can spontaneously emerge from non-living matter? All atheists have are theories as to our origin, none of which have been proven. How is this any different than my belief in God and in Jesus Christ? At least with my belief we have historical evidence of Jesus, even from non-Biblical sources. Your belief that life started out of non-life has no evidence to support the theories. How can you attack my belief while your belief is equally lacking evidence?
...

Because this is he:

 

[IFireflyl]

You're putting more qualifiers here now, but the daughter is still being sold. Are you going to accept that when you said the Bible does not condone the treatment of women as inferior, you were wrong?

The solution is that the daughter (who at that time did not have a way to make money or be a provider) should remain with her father, living in the streets and being unable to feed or clothe herself? You're saying that that is better than her being essentially apprenticed somewhere that kept her fed and clothed in exchange for work? Being destitute is better than being employed. That's your take.

You used the words "know" and "if". I am attacking your use of those. I'm not attacking your belief, I'm asking questions (that you aren't answering) about it. Like I've said already people are free to believe whatever hokum they like. You're the one that brought up your belief.

I want people to know my "if" because I believe that my "if" is the truth. And since I believe that it is the truth, how selfish and hateful would I have to be to not provide the truth that leads to eternal life to the people around me?

You say a sin is a crime and homosexuality is a sin. What is the punishment for homosexuality?

The same punishment as lying. Sin keeps us apart from God. Even as a Christian, we have a sin nature that we cannot conquer. If we choose to live in the sin then our relationship with God is hampered in the same way that a husband who is sleeping with a mistress is hampering his relationship with his wife. The punishment after death is that those who rejected God will pay for their sins by being eternally separated from Him. This place of separation is Hell. Hell was created for the angels who rejected God, because God abhors sin. The fallen angels will be in a place of punishment, and those who reject God will join them. But for as much as God abhors sin, He was (and is) still compassionate and merciful, and He provided us with a way to escape this punishment. The people who do not reject God will have their sins forgiven, because Jesus died on the cross as payment for our sins.