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Child mauled to death at Pittsburgh Zoo

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Want proof? Here it is

Philly Zoo spends less than 1% of it's takings on actually conservation.

The link you provided actually says:

"Education and Conservation 2,531,000 - 8%

Exhibit and Garden Care 6,491,000 - 19%

Animal Care $ 5,064,000 - 15%"

You said nothing goes to animal care but that surely looks like almost 40% of revenue went to animal care, exhibit maintenance/construction, and conservation. "


Doesn't matter. You asked for proof of this happening and you got it.

You posted a link from an animal right's group website, and didn't even bother to read past the bolded headline to the actual budget numbers.
 
I've been to that exhibit a few times, that kid definitely either climbed the railing or was being held over by the mom. Tragic, but it could have been avoided.
 
The link you provided actually says:

"Education and Conservation 2,531,000 - 8%

Exhibit and Garden Care 6,491,000 - 19%

Animal Care $ 5,064,000 - 15%"

You said nothing goes to animal care but that surely looks like almost 40% of revenue went to animal care, exhibit maintenance/construction, and conservation. "




You posted a link from an animal right's group website, and didn't even bother to read past the bolded headline to the actual budget numbers.

Didn't you know? 40% is actually 0% in whacky dacky land.
 
I don't know why you all are getting up in diamount's case. He/she/it is not exactly wrong about zoos. In fact, buying tickets in order to go to the zoo is tantamount to enslaving generations of wildlife and their progeny.

How can anyone in good conscience support this wanton decadence needed to satisfy man's desire to ogle at these poor innocent animals and participate in the worst kind of voyeurism possible?

How would you like it if the tables were reversed and humans were put up for animals to poke fun at and incessantly abuse? It wouldn't be as entertaining, I suspect.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The cost of caring for the animals in the program is not included in that 8%. So the number is really much higher.
EDIT: nvm, beaten
Oh, and (in San Diego) our zoos are owned by a non-profit.
 

diamount

Banned
So let me get this straight. One zoo (The Philly Zoo) gives 8% of its earnings to conservation efforts.

Thus, all zoos everywhere in the entire world should be banned?

Am I following this logical (lol) argument made by diamount correctly?

What about this argument?

1. I watch videos of animals on youtube
2. I watch animals at a zoo
3. To me there was no significant difference in experience
4. Ergo, all humans will have a similar experience to me

Okay, I'll admit my previous reasoning was a bit stupid. However you are seriously naive if you think this isn't the case with a lot of other zoo's around the world, if the money WASN'T lining their pockets then there would be no reason to actually open and maintain it.

Zoo's sole objective is to make money with little cost involved, except actually keeping the animals relatively healthy so people can gawk and not look concerned if the animal was laying in it's feces.
 
I don't know why you all are getting up in diamount's case. He/she/it is not exactly wrong about zoos. In fact, buying tickets in order to go to the zoo is tantamount to enslaving generations of wildlife and their progeny.

How can anyone in good conscience support this wanton decadence needed to satisfy man's desire to ogle at these poor innocent animals and participate in the worst kind of voyeurism possible?

How would you like it if the tables were reversed and humans were put up for animals to poke fun at and incessantly abuse? It wouldn't be as entertaining, I suspect.

If humans needed to be enslaved so that they wouldn't go extinct I wouldn't mind. And I'm all for zoos having the best conditions possible for the animals.

Zoo's sole objective is to make money with little cost involved, except actually keeping the animals relatively healthy so people can gawk and not look concerned if the animal was laying in it's feces.

A Zoo can also be used as an animal sanctuary. So you're wrong.

How do you explain all the non-profit zoos?

If they exist only to make money, why is 40% from the "terrible" Philly Zoo going to animal caretaking?
 
Okay, I'll admit my previous reasoning was a bit stupid. However you are seriously naive if you think this isn't the case with a lot of other zoo's around the world, if the money WASN'T lining their pockets then there would be no reason to actually open and maintain it.

Zoo's sole objective is to make money with little cost involved, except actually keeping the animals relatively healthy so people can gawk and not look concerned if the animal was laying in it's feces.

Do you seriously not understand what a non-profit organization is? more than 75% of U.S. zoo's are public-private partnerships between a government agency and a non-profit organization.
 
they spend far more on amenities and salary for people than animal care. put up all the numbers.

It's not my link, nor has anyone claimed zoos don't have expenses.

Are you seriously implying I'M the one being misleading?

Some of you should educate yourself on how charities operate. Many charity CEO's are paid $500k+, ALL charities spend huge portion of their money on operational expenses.

And there's corruption at times a well. No one argued their couldn't be.. We are simply saying:

Many zoos are a part of the general conservation effort.

It's a FACT

Moving on.
 
Why were the keepers armed only with ineffectual darts? If they had real guns maybe they could have saved the baby. Who cares if they are endangered, I don't believe that whole species is worth one human life.
 
A dog being shot is as bad as a kid being eaten alive?

It's not about the dog as an individual, it's about the species. One less of an endangered species is always a tragic thing.

I don't believe that whole species is worth one human life.

Yeah, no. While the boy's death is tragic, there are more than enough humans. A species that goes extinct leaves a hole in its ecosystem, the consequences can be quite severe.
 
Why were the keepers armed only with ineffectual darts? If they had real guns maybe they could have saved the baby. Who cares if they are endangered, I don't believe that whole species is worth one human life.

If you want to complain about poor management, focus on the terrible design of the observation deck
 
Hopefully the dog went straight for the jugular and the kid bled to death as opposed to... man I don't even want to think about the other ways the dog could have killed him.
 

zoukka

Member
Hopefully the dog went straight for the jugular and the kid bled to death as opposed to... man I don't even want to think about the other ways the dog could have killed him.

The sad truth is that many predators don't kill their prey very fast in the nature.
 
Well if it was being aggressive and it tasted human flesh I dont think it would be fit for a zoo anymore.Maybe the kid wouldve been able to be saved if they couldve just shot them.idk


a 400 pound tiger was scared away by a fire extinguisher last month at the bronx zoo when some weirdo jumped in the exhibit area. besides "taste for human flesh" is bullshit.

Why were the keepers armed only with ineffectual darts? If they had real guns maybe they could have saved the baby. Who cares if they are endangered, I don't believe that whole species is worth one human life.

and you place too high a value on human life. you're not wiping put a species just to save one person. that's just as dumb.

The sad truth is that many predators don't kill their prey very fast in the nature.


hard to when what you're fighting to bring down is bigger and stronger than you sometimes. nothing sad about it, just how it is. they don't have the luxury of a supermarket.
 
I wouldn't place blame on anyone here really. It's just a freak accident. Stuff like this happens. Sucks the mom had to lose her son over this but the zoo can learn from this moving forward.
 

t26

Member
I wouldn't place blame on anyone here really. It's just a freak accident. Stuff like this happens. Sucks the mom had to lose her son over this but the zoo can learn from this moving forward.

Too soon to say that. Around here a tiger escaped and killed a visitor. Turns out the fence didn't meet safety standard.
 
I wouldn't place blame on anyone here really. It's just a freak accident. Stuff like this happens. Sucks the mom had to lose her son over this but the zoo can learn from this moving forward.

No 3 year old should have been able to get into the exhibit. There is certainly blame to be cast on zoo officials. This isn't even the first time they have had to evacuate the zoo due to problems with the design of that particular exhibit.
 

Guevara

Member
I feel terrible for the family and I'm also sad they had to shoot one of the wild dogs. Painted dogs are some of my favorite animals. They respond to humans very much like a dog would and make eye contact when you visit them. It's tempting to think of them as a weird breed of dog, but of course they are dangerous pack predators. Very cool animal.
 
I wouldn't place blame on anyone here really. It's just a freak accident. Stuff like this happens. Sucks the mom had to lose her son over this but the zoo can learn from this moving forward.

very rarely. I can probably count it on one hand. (well not really but you know what i'm getting at)

I feel terrible for the family and I'm also sad they had to shoot one of the wild dogs. Painted dogs are some of my favorite animals. They respond to humans very much like a dog would and make eye contact when you visit them. It's tempting to think of them as a weird breed of dog, but of course they are dangerous pack predators. Very cool animal.

I wouldn't equate predators with being "dangerous" in the way a criminal is dangerous. they kill to eat and they have to fight to have and keep their territory and for mating rights. after a few millennia they tend to solve things differently than you or I do.
 

drspeedy

Member
I wonder how the child fell. Tragic nonetheless, so sad for the mother.

What I need to say:
My heartfelt condolences to both the family and the zookeepers, both never wanted to see this and I'm sure will have a ton of healing to do.


What I want to say:
ANY self-capable dad would have lept in there and do everything possible. Bring on the dogs, that's my boy down there... no f'n way, long fall, electric fence, no god damn problem. You have to get me first.

I'd die 1,00 times before I let this happen to my -or any- child. IfI saw a solo mom lose a 3 y/o into an exhibit, I'd still be down there, and I hope every dad would do the same.
 

Kinyou

Member
I had to look what a painted dog was:
250px-Lycaon_pictus_(Temminck,_1820).jpg
They're actually pretty rare and beautiful animals.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
What I need to say:
My heartfelt condolences to both the family and the zookeepers, both never wanted to see this and I'm sure will have a ton of healing to do.


What I want to say:
ANY self-capable dad would have lept in there and do everything possible. Bring on the dogs, that's my boy down there... no f'n way, long fall, electric fence, no god damn problem. You have to get me first.

I'd die 1,00 times before I let this happen to my -or any- child. IfI saw a solo mom lose a 3 y/o into an exhibit, I'd still be down there, and I hope every dad would do the same.

Deer in headlights effect
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
More information was added to the OP news source.

Still isn't going into specifics on how the kid got in the area.

"The screams just kept coming and coming: 'Someone help. Someone has to do something,'" recounted Angela Cinti, 20, of Bethel Park, who was visiting the zoo today with her boyfriend Nick Kramer, 16, of Bethel Park.

Ms. Cinti described a horrifying scene that lasted a little more than 5 minutes but seemed like hours.

"We were on our way to the polar bear exhibit when we heard the most horrible piercing screams... Someone was begging for help, asking someone to do something...," she said. The couple ran back in the direction they came from, passing the bear exhibits. The screams continued.

As they reached the painted dog exhibit, she saw a small crowd of distressed onlookers. "One woman with a baby in the stroller was screaming that someone needed to so something," Ms. Cinti said.She said she could see the little boy's apparently lifeless body lying on the hill inside the exhibit. "There were three dogs: one at his head, one on the left side of his neck and another one down by his leg... A [zoo employee]got there and hopped over a fence with a rake and he was banging...trying to distract the dogs but they wouldn't move," she said.

Ms. Cinti, a student at Community College of Allegheny County, tracked the time frame with her cell phone, saying she made a call at 11:49 a.m. when she and her boyfriend first headed toward the commotion. She said her cell phone shows that the call was ended five minutes and five seconds later, when a half-dozen zoo employees arrived and dispersed the crowd.

I know that in certain types of emergencies that getting involved can cause more problems than good, but the article seriously reads like those people had that "Someone else will help" mentality.
 

Kinyou

Member
I know that in certain types of emergencies that getting involved can cause more problems than good, but the article seriously reads like those people had that "Someone else will help" mentality.
I don't think you can really blame people for not wanting to risk their own lives.

Not everyone is a hero.
 
More information was added to the OP news source.

Still isn't going into specifics on how the kid got in the area.



I know that in certain types of emergencies that getting involved can cause more problems than good, but the article seriously reads like those people had that "Someone else will help" mentality.

From the pictures posted (even though they are few) it looks like the kid managed to crawl through a small space at the very top of a high fence. How would anyone else even get in there?
 
What I want to say:
ANY self-capable dad would have lept in there and do everything possible. Bring on the dogs, that's my boy down there... no f'n way, long fall, electric fence, no god damn problem. You have to get me first.

I'd die 1,00 times before I let this happen to my -or any- child. IfI saw a solo mom lose a 3 y/o into an exhibit, I'd still be down there, and I hope every dad would do the same.

Well, in the case of wild dogs, I think a guy with a stick might actually be able to fend them off for a few minutes.
However, if some kid falls into the tiger exhibit, there is no way I'm going down there. The tiger would very likely kill us both.

My own kid would obviously be a different matter.
 
I don't think you can really blame people for not wanting to risk their own lives.

Not everyone is a hero.

Definitely not in a tiger or lion exhibit, but I'd like to think I'd do my best to try and break into an exhibit with a pack of presumably well-fed African dogs. Hopefully I never have to find out.
 
From the pictures posted (even though they are few) it looks like the kid managed to crawl through a small space at the very top of a high fence. How would anyone else even get in there?

More likely he was leaning against the mesh to see better while standing on the 4 foot handrail (parent placed him there maybe?) and the mesh gave way, sending him falling into the exhibit.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
From the pictures posted (even though they are few) it looks like the kid managed to crawl through a small space at the very top of a high fence. How would anyone else even get in there?

If we are assuming that the toddler did end up in the exhibit through that gap, then the parent fucked up, but also . I know kids are rambunctious and all over the place when they are three, but I seriously doubt a kid could scale that thing very easily.

Why did it say it was a 14 foot drop? Based on the pictures it doesn't look like it is THAT tall. Did the kid fall from somewhere else?

Don't a lot of zoos have exhibits where you look down into the area where the animal is?
 

marrec

Banned
What I need to say:
My heartfelt condolences to both the family and the zookeepers, both never wanted to see this and I'm sure will have a ton of healing to do.


What I want to say:
ANY self-capable dad would have lept in there and do everything possible. Bring on the dogs, that's my boy down there... no f'n way, long fall, electric fence, no god damn problem. You have to get me first.

I'd die 1,00 times before I let this happen to my -or any- child. IfI saw a solo mom lose a 3 y/o into an exhibit, I'd still be down there, and I hope every dad would do the same.

The observation deck is the lowest point that you could jump in from a publicly accessible place but it's impossible for an adult (or a fat kid) to get in from there. Everywhere else is much higher and you'd likely just break a leg and then get mauled.

If it was my son in there? I'd probably break a leg and get mauled. Anyone elses son? I'd hope to hell that the zookeepers would get there in time.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Why did it say it was a 14 foot drop? Based on the pictures it doesn't look like it is THAT tall. Did the kid fall from somewhere else?

It's common for there to be a trough below elevated observation areas. It wouldn't be visible in any of the pictures I've seen so far.
 
I know that in certain types of emergencies that getting involved can cause more problems than good, but the article seriously reads like those people had that "Someone else will help" mentality.

That mentality is pretty common. Common enough that I'd say it's an evolutionarily programmed response. Just speculation on my part though.
 
Even if they hadn't ate the kid, he'd still probably be dead or at the least need a hospital ASAP. A small child falling from such a height would do a lot of damage to the body.
 

Kinyou

Member
That mentality is pretty common. Common enough that I'd say it's an evolutionarily programmed response. Just speculation on my part though.
Could be. After all is altruism supposedly also a evolutionary programmed response.

Price’s 'mathematical' theory of altruism reasons that organisms are more likely to show altruism toward each other as they become more genetically similar to each other. As such, in a species that requires two parents to reproduce, an organism is most likely to show altruistic behavior to a biological parent, full sibling, or direct offspring. The reason for this is that each of these relatives’ genetic make up contains (on average in the case of siblings) 50% of the genes that are found in the original organism. So if the original organism dies as a result of an altruistic act it can still manage to propagate its full genetic heritage as long as two or more of these close relatives are saved. Consequently an organism is less likely to show altruistic behavior to a biological grandparent, grandchild, aunt/uncle, niece/nephew or half-sibling(each contain one-fourth of the genes found in the original organism); and even less likely to show altruism to a first cousin (contains one-eighth of the genes found in the original organism). The theory then holds that the farther genetically removed two organisms are from each other the less likely they are to show altruism to each other. If true then altruistic (kind) behavior is not truly selfless and is instead an adaptation that organisms have in order to promote their own genetic heritage.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Some person on my Facebook is ranting about how the mom was holding the child over the ledge. Is there any evidence of that or is she just talking shit?
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
It's common for there to be a trough below elevated observation areas. It wouldn't be visible in any of the pictures I've seen so far.

Oh, damn. Kid would've hit solid concrete in that case then. Kid was already dead before the dogs got him.
 
Some person on my Facebook is ranting about how the mom was holding the child over the ledge. Is there any evidence of that or is she just talking shit?

From the few photos I was able to find, I am not sure if that would have been possible. We won't know until the press gets access to the observation area and takes better pictures.
 

eso76

Member
Fucked up story on all counts. I find it kind of ridiculous that you'd kill a wild animal for acting like a wild animal, but I guess the child was endangered at that point, and this wasn't after the entire ordeal or anything. So that kinda makes sense.

I find it ridiculous that we have endangered species in zoos, or zoos, in fact, but anyway.
 
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