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China 'shocked' by US actions in trade dispute, fresh tariffs to be imposed in September 2018 on products worth $200 billion

llien

Member
China said it is "shocked" after the US announced plans for fresh tariffs, escalating a trade war between the two countries.
The US listed $200bn (£150bn) worth of additional products it intends to place tariffs on as soon as September.
The move comes just days after the two countries imposed tit-for-tat tariffs of $34bn on each other's goods.
Beijing described Washington's latest threat as "totally unacceptable," saying it would harm the world.
"The behaviour of the US is hurting China, hurting the world and hurting itself," a spokesperson for China's commerce ministry said in a statement.
The spokesperson also said the government would have to take the "necessary counter-measures".
The list names more than 6,000 items including food products, minerals and consumer goods such as handbags.
The public will have until the end of August to comment on the list before the new tariffs - to be imposed at 10% - come into effect.
Asian stock markets fell sharply on Wednesday as investors shunned risk amid escalating trade tensions between the two economic giants.
In China, Hong Kong's Hang Seng index dropped 1.5%, while the Shanghai Composite fell 1.8%. Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index shed 1.2%.
The White House says the tariffs are a response to unfair trade practices by China.

The US wants China to stop practices that allegedly encourage transfer of intellectual property - design and product ideas - to Chinese companies, such as requirements that foreign firms share ownership with local partners to access the Chinese market.

US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said there was "no justification" for China's retaliation.

"As in the past, the United States is willing to engage in efforts that could lead to a resolution of our concerns about China's unfair trade practices and to China opening its market to US goods and services," he said.

"In the meantime, we will remain vigilant in defending the ability of our workers and businesses to compete on a fair and reciprocal basis."

'Increasingly worried'
Many companies in the US are opposed to the administration's use of tariffs against China, saying they risk hurting business and the economy without being likely to change behaviour.

On top of the $34bn worth of tariffs that came into effect on Friday last week, the White House has said it would consult on tariffs on another $16bn of products. US President Donald Trump has suggested these could come into effect later this month.


In total, the new import taxes that President Trump is threatening to impose are almost equal to the value of China's entire goods exports to the US, worth more than $500bn last year.
BBC

PS
Can Trump use the $20 billion from these additional tariffs to build the wall of his dream? :)
 

MamaRice

Banned
People being shocked when Trump does exactly what he says he was going to do; gets me every time.
Yeah, because most people have trouble believing that Trump will actually be as stupid as he acts.

Trump: Hey, maybe I should do this really stupid thing!
Trump supporters: Yes! Do that stupid thing.
Everyone else: You shouldn't do that stupid thing.
Trump: I did the stupid thing!
Everyone else: I can't believe he did that stupid thing!
Trump supporters: LOL at everyone shocked he did the stupid thing!
 
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Yeah, because most people have trouble believing that Trump will actually be as stupid as he acts.

Trump: Hey, maybe I should do this really stupid thing!
Trump supporters: Yes! Do that stupid thing.
Everyone else: You shouldn't do that stupid thing.
Trump: I did the stupid thing!
Everyone else: I can't believe he did that stupid thing!
Trump supporters: LOL at everyone shocked he did the stupid thing!

Hey hey. Many people's dreams ride on that stupid man's actions. What do you want them to do? Switch horses mid race?
 

MamaRice

Banned
For better or worse, it's pretty shocking to see a president actively trying to keep so many campaign promises.
Yeah. And everytime it happens it makes the people who keep saying "what he said during the campaign and on twitter doesn't matter!" sound dumb.

No, it's why they voted for him, it's what they supported, and it's what he's doing.
 
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Nicktendo86

Member
First time I actually heard that China forces foreign companies to share their i.p with local firms for access to their market, that's actually an unbelievable practice. Explains why Chinese phones for example have got much better in recent years?
 

Mohonky

Member
It needs to backfire for people to realize it was indeed a stupid thing.

Plenty of people who voted for Trump on the premise of their jobs not going overseas actually do feel rather stupid right now.

Also some people hedged bets that some of those stupid things he wouldnt actually do....but he did and left a lot of Republicans who needed medicaid now unable to get health care.

Some people wont care or ever admit they were wrong, but it does happen.
 

MamaRice

Banned
Plenty of people who voted for Trump on the premise of their jobs not going overseas actually do feel rather stupid right now.

Also some people hedged bets that some of those stupid things he wouldnt actually do....but he did and left a lot of Republicans who needed medicaid now unable to get health care.

Some people wont care or ever admit they were wrong, but it does happen.
I'll never get over that one vice thing I watched of the older couple whose husband's life was saved by obamacare, and then Trump took it away, and they said they would vote for him again... The virtriol with the way the wife said the word "Obamacare" like she was bitter than something Obama contributed save her husband's life.
 
First time I actually heard that China forces foreign companies to share their i.p with local firms for access to their market, that's actually an unbelievable practice. Explains why Chinese phones for example have got much better in recent years?
Well Chinese became better in being copy-cats. Start from the low lever copy to higher level.
 
Some people wont care or ever admit they were wrong, but it does happen.

You mean people like Paul Krugman who predicted the markets would "never recover" if Trump gets elected ?

It's sad China has been able to take advantage of us for so long. We have a long way to go to fix things.
I don't give a damn if cheap crap at Walmart costs more due to tariffs. We have to think of the long term, like China does with their economy.
 
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It's Jeff

Banned
The US wants China to stop practices that allegedly encourage transfer of intellectual property - design and product ideas - to Chinese companies, such as requirements that foreign firms share ownership with local partners to access the Chinese market.

US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said there was "no justification" for China's retaliation.

If this bullshit is happening, I can't object to United States actions. I'd argue that they don't go far enough, really. If you can't agree to the most base respect of commerce, you shouldn't do business on a world stage.
 

llien

Member
If this bullshit is happening, I can't object to United States actions. I'd argue that they don't go far enough, really. If you can't agree to the most base respect of commerce, you shouldn't do business on a world stage.
Note that it's not something unseen in other places; this kind of rules is at the very least enforced in Russia.
 

MamaRice

Banned
You mean people like Paul Krugman who predicted the markets would "never recover" if Trump gets elected ?

It's sad China has been able to take advantage of us for so long. We have a long way to go to fix things.
I don't give a damn if cheap crap at Walmart costs more due to tariffs. We have to think of the long term, like China does with their economy.
Damn if Trump had said to his low income supporters that he doesn’t care if the things they need to buy to live at Walmart were more expensive...






....They’d still support him.
 
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If this bullshit is happening, I can't object to United States actions. I'd argue that they don't go far enough, really. If you can't agree to the most base respect of commerce, you shouldn't do business on a world stage.
But it was cheap (not true now but originally) to produce something there and considering that corporations do not belong to specific countries it was easy for them to do that.
 
First time I actually heard that China forces foreign companies to share their i.p with local firms for access to their market, that's actually an unbelievable practice. Explains why Chinese phones for example have got much better in recent years?

It's not really that unbelievable. The Chinese want to progress rapidly and catch up with countries that are the best of the best at what they do. Private business is all about maximizing profits so if it was that bad of a deal to share IP they'd walk away. Don't shed any tears for multinational corporations that have no loyalty to your country and have plenty of power to defend themselves. All they care about is making money at your expense.

And it's a good thing Chinese phones have gotten better for people who want quality/cheap phones around the world. You don't want crappy options that are cheap. It may be a national security risk that people should keep in the back of their minds, but the trade off is probably worth it from a economic standpoint.
 
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Fox Mulder

Member
We have to think of the long term, like China does with their economy.

Which is why a trade war is stupid. China can match any of these moves without regard for maximum damage knowing that our country can politically shift as early as the midterms or 2020.
 
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Enygger_Tzu

Banned
Why are the Chinese shocked?

I, for one would expect them to be literally overjoyed and not impose counter-tariffs to Trump's own.

Because, as proponents of Free Trade have been touting for more than 50+ years, Free Trade actually strengthens an economy and a nation and tariffs/protectionism weaken a nation's economy, so I am perplexed why China has this over-reaction.

That is of course, if we assume Free Trade is not another Globalist, neo-libertarian narrative hoax that is proven to false day-by-day.

Spoiler: It is.
 

WaterAstro

Member
Yeah, because most people have trouble believing that Trump will actually be as stupid as he acts.

Trump: Hey, maybe I should do this really stupid thing!
Trump supporters: Yes! Do that stupid thing.
Everyone else: You shouldn't do that stupid thing.
Trump: I did the stupid thing!
Everyone else: I can't believe he did that stupid thing!
Trump supporters: LOL at everyone shocked he did the stupid thing!
Make America Stupid Again!
 

KonradLaw

Member
China policies are shitty, but I don;t think this is a war Trump can win. In few years he will only be memory. China is thinking long term- on decades or century even. Nothing Trump can do is worth screwing themselves over for long term, since it's not like the next POTUS would give up any advantage Trump wins. It;'s much better to just wait him out.
Ironically, the best aproach would be to work wirth EU to counter China, but Trump seems to not be very pro-EU either.
He also lacks foresight and skill to pull this off. He slaps dumb tarrifs, stiffs trade deals etc. He should be just responding in kind .For example...introduce the " requirements that Chinese firms share ownership with local partners to access the USA market".
It's not a slight against Trump's own skills. But EU trade deals team is literally dozens of specialist. It's just to complex for any man to handle on his own and a small team. Look at what's happened in Mexico. Because of Trump's agressivemeness towards NAFTA and refusal to partake in any other trade deals for now with Mexico USA is pretty much forever screwed in cheese market there (and that's where 30% of cheese exports from USA go), since EU struck a deal that enforces the EU-style name limitations. So no american cheese will ever be able to be called Parmesan, Feta etc in Mexico or even have labels "like Parmesan". Good luck selling and advertising those types of cheeses there American dairy farmers
 
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bucyou

Member
First time I actually heard that China forces foreign companies to share their i.p with local firms for access to their market, that's actually an unbelievable practice. Explains why Chinese phones for example have got much better in recent years?

Its true, and its actually one of the main reasons for this action against China.

Of course you wont hear that from news outlets or our resident "progressives"
 

DESTROYA

Member
So China is shocked that theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually.
Yeah we should just let it slide
 
So China is shocked that theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually.
Yeah we should just let it slide

Keep in mind that our companies are still making money out of the ass in that market, so we tolerate it as much as we want the WTO to do something about it.
 

DESTROYA

Member
Really, just turn the other cheek?
I know people that lost jobs in the wind turbine industry (sinovel) because of trade secrets/IP stolen.
Try explaining that to them.
 

Super Mario

Banned
Yeah, because most people have trouble believing that Trump will actually be as stupid as he acts.

Trump: Hey, maybe I should do this really stupid thing!
Trump supporters: Yes! Do that stupid thing.
Everyone else: You shouldn't do that stupid thing.
Trump: I did the stupid thing!
Everyone else: I can't believe he did that stupid thing!
Trump supporters: LOL at everyone shocked he did the stupid thing!

Do you have a better solution to the stupid thing? Do you even acknowledge that there was a problem? Should Trump supporters be taking to the street with a sign pre-printed for us?

Or do you just do what the left tells you?
 

Gander

Banned
We'll have trade war, let's have a trade war. We haven't had a good old fashioned trade war in awhile. It sounds silly when I say it.
 
Really, just turn the other cheek?
I know people that lost jobs in the wind turbine industry (sinovel) because of trade secrets/IP stolen.
Try explaining that to them.

China will make foreign businesses share IP or steal it like others did in the past if you don't voluntarily share what you know. What is there to explain? They want a better life and want to be rich.

Your government should've cut Sinovel's taxes or rewarded them with a grant to cover the expenses for their innovation. Developing countries don't have a strong incentive to recognize US IP law. They'd be smart to more or less ignore it like China did. The results speaks for itself.
 

finowns

Member
China will make foreign businesses share IP or steal it like others did in the past if you don't voluntarily share what you know. What is there to explain? They want a better life and want to be rich.

Your government should've cut Sinovel's taxes or rewarded them with a grant to cover the expenses for their innovation. Developing countries don't have a strong incentive to recognize US IP law. They'd be smart to more or less ignore it like China did. The results speaks for itself.

That could be justification for nearly anything even the trump administration's tariffs.
 
Really, just turn the other cheek?
I know people that lost jobs in the wind turbine industry (sinovel) because of trade secrets/IP stolen.
Try explaining that to them.

Getting China to join TPP would have been a good start, then we could penalize them more without fucking ourselves up. But that's the long game. Tariffs are short-term strong arming that's not going to work for permanent IP protections.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Banned
China is now a rich nation that became so on the backs of western economies. We handed them our breakfast and they ate it and our lunch without having to ask and now are crying for dinner because they are hungry.

Why does a country that actually violently represses minority groups and worker rights deserve free markets to the West while not allowing the same? Why should they be allowed to undercut our workers after we bought and paid for their explosive growth?

Look, I’ve seen personally the drive to move industrial production to China and other LCCs, and I have also personally seen how much worse their workers conditions are than our own. Seeing a line full of people working for a daily wage in some dark, dirty factory for 2 dollars an hour or less is eye opening.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
For better or worse, it's pretty shocking to see a president actively trying to keep so many campaign promises.

The truth is when most Presidents keep their promises, most Americans don't even realize because they aren't paying attention. With Trump people seem to be paying a little bit more attention to the things that he's doing.
 

Dirk Benedict

Gold Member
The truth is when most Presidents keep their promises, most Americans don't even realize because they aren't paying attention. With Trump people seem to be paying a little bit more attention to the things that he's doing.

That's because he is being held to a microscope by many people. This level of scrutiny is beyond any other president, to the best of my memory. Also, let's be frank, a little isn't even the word to describe what's going on. He could fart and it would make the news and be spun as something negative. Not to say he doesn't deserve backlash, it's just sometimes this shit goes overboard to the point where people seem to have nothing better to do than contribute to the daily collective cry.
 

MamaRice

Banned
That's because he is being held to a microscope by many people. This level of scrutiny is beyond any other president, to the best of my memory. Also, let's be frank, a little isn't even the word to describe what's going on. He could fart and it would make the news and be spun as something negative. Not to say he doesn't deserve backlash, it's just sometimes this shit goes overboard to the point where people seem to have nothing better to do than contribute to the daily collective cry.
Conservatives whined like babies at every little thing Obama did.

The man couldn't even wear a tan fucking suit without it being seen as an insult to the office.

And Obama was 100x the man Trump was, even for his own faults..
 
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Dirk Benedict

Gold Member
Conservatives whined like babies at every little thing Obama did.

The man couldn't even wear a tan fucking suit without it being seen as an insult to the office.

And Obama was 100x the man Trump was, even for his own faults..

I wanted to vote, Andrew Ryan but he wasn't on the ballot.
 

KonradLaw

Member
China is now a rich nation that became so on the backs of western economies. We handed them our breakfast and they ate it and our lunch without having to ask and now are crying for dinner because they are hungry.

Why does a country that actually violently represses minority groups and worker rights deserve free markets to the West while not allowing the same? Why should they be allowed to undercut our workers after we bought and paid for their explosive growth?

Look, I’ve seen personally the drive to move industrial production to China and other LCCs, and I have also personally seen how much worse their workers conditions are than our own. Seeing a line full of people working for a daily wage in some dark, dirty factory for 2 dollars an hour or less is eye opening.
Nobody forced american companies to move their production to China. America's companies got obsenely rich by doing that. I agree that China needs to be countered, but let's not pretend USA is poor victim in this case.
 

IISANDERII

Member
Plenty of people who voted for Trump on the premise of their jobs not going overseas actually do feel rather stupid right now.

Also some people hedged bets that some of those stupid things he wouldnt actually do....but he did and left a lot of Republicans who needed medicaid now unable to get health care.

Some people wont care or ever admit they were wrong, but it does happen.
I thought higher tariffs incentivize corporations to manufacture domestically.
 
Yeah, because most people have trouble believing that Trump will actually be as stupid as he acts.

Trump: Hey, maybe I should do this really stupid thing!
Trump supporters: Yes! Do that stupid thing.
Everyone else: You shouldn't do that stupid thing.
Trump: I did the stupid thing!
Everyone else: I can't believe he did that stupid thing!
Trump supporters: LOL at everyone shocked he did the stupid thing!


giphy.gif
 
Damn Trump is fragile, lmfao. China trying to limit harsh criticism so he doesn't get offended and retaliate more.

China is an adult. Unfortunately I don't feel right giving them praise.
 

Arkage

Banned
People being shocked when Trump does exactly what he says he was going to do; gets me every time.

Trump said during the campaign he would replace bad trade with great trade deals. Tariffs are not trade deals. If he would've promised a $200 billion tariff trade war with China during his campaign Republicans might've actually grown a spine to stop his nomination. The most ironic part is that the Chinese tariffs are likely to hit Republican areas the hardest, targeting soybean farmer and etc. Trump literally trying to destroy his own electoral base.
 

HoodWinked

Member
chartoftheday_8824_chinese_american_trade_balance_n.jpg

maybe this is overly simplistic but looking at the trade between US and China there is pretty large disparity between them as everyone knows. but lets say trade goes poorly between the two countries but China has wayyyy more to lose than the US, China would be losing out on 460B vs US losing 115B. How does america not have all the leverage in these disputes.

its like watching a poker game where someone is the short stack and somehow thinking he can bully the guy with 4 times the number of chips.
 
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Espada

Member
Trump said during the campaign he would replace bad trade with great trade deals. Tariffs are not trade deals. If he would've promised a $200 billion tariff trade war with China during his campaign Republicans might've actually grown a spine to stop his nomination. The most ironic part is that the Chinese tariffs are likely to hit Republican areas the hardest, targeting soybean farmer and etc. Trump literally trying to destroy his own electoral base.
You should look at some features where news outlets went to counties that states that went to Trump in 2016. The overwhelming majority are still going to vote for him again. Maybe this will change if their livelihoods are directly affected, but those videos and articles had a consistent conclusion: Trump is their man and nothing will sway them. There's always people like this, but the danger is that this unresponsive bloc ensures naked, continuous incompetence is unpunished.
 
Trump said during the campaign he would replace bad trade with great trade deals. Tariffs are not trade deals. If he would've promised a $200 billion tariff trade war with China during his campaign Republicans might've actually grown a spine to stop his nomination. The most ironic part is that the Chinese tariffs are likely to hit Republican areas the hardest, targeting soybean farmer and etc. Trump literally trying to destroy his own electoral base.

He is currently renegotiating NAFTA. Also I know he's renegotiating our trade deal with S. Korea. And I read on his visit to London this week, Theresa May is pushing for the US and UK to quickly forge a new bilateral free trade agreement. So he's very much kept his promise. Tariffs aren't trade deals, obviously. But he never hid the fact that he intended to use them where appropriate. Soy beans farmers might get hurt, but American manufacturers haven't been this optimistic in many decades. China was dumping subsized steel on the market. He's looking out for the rust state voters that elected him.

So I'll ask you, if you're against tariffs, do you support the status quo ? We should just live with the massive trade imbalance between the US and China ? I think it's indefensible.
 
There's always people like this, but the danger is that this unresponsive bloc ensures naked, continuous incompetence is unpunished.

Or maybe they see things differently than you. Trump is enjoying near record levels of support in the Republican party. People that voted for him are mostly happy. But since you hate Trump, it's dangerous that they don't recognize his so called incompetence ? I don't agree with everything he does, but incompetent is the last word I'd use to describe him. He's actually been very effective at enacting his policy goals. Even many of his critics such as Andrew Sullivan, think he is getting a lot accomplished. (He doesn't like it, because he dislikes the policies) but he said Trump has already made a bigger impact than Obama made during his Presidency.
 
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