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China Tells Citizens to Inform on Parents Who Lure Kids Into Religion (Islam)
- Thread starter Piecake
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MisterFalcon
Member
That has been China's policy for decades.
It seems more like cultural genocide than ethnic cleansing.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Considering it is specifically about minors, I honestly don't have anything against this idea at first glance.
I know it isn't as well-meaning as it sounds in my head, but I am totally fucking against indoctrination of minors.
I was almost a victim of it myself. My mother specficially distanced us away from her redneck bible thumping (but not reading! KEY POINT) family. However, around the time I was 10-11 my brother's (half-brother just to make this story a bit clearer) step-mom took me to one of those mega churches by luring me in with the awesome new basketball courts they have.
Of course I still got dragged into the sermon and the amount of guilt-tripping and shit they were throwing out on the audience honestly had me feeling like some sort of heathen for not being baptized.
I went home that night crying and told my mom the story and how I felt like I needed to be baptized immediately and she basically told me that if that bitch ever takes you there and forces you into the sermon instead of just letting me play basketball or whatever, that she was gonna clap that bitch up on the head herself so hard that she would wake up a catholic.
I know it isn't as well-meaning as it sounds in my head, but I am totally fucking against indoctrination of minors.
I was almost a victim of it myself. My mother specficially distanced us away from her redneck bible thumping (but not reading! KEY POINT) family. However, around the time I was 10-11 my brother's (half-brother just to make this story a bit clearer) step-mom took me to one of those mega churches by luring me in with the awesome new basketball courts they have.
Of course I still got dragged into the sermon and the amount of guilt-tripping and shit they were throwing out on the audience honestly had me feeling like some sort of heathen for not being baptized.
I went home that night crying and told my mom the story and how I felt like I needed to be baptized immediately and she basically told me that if that bitch ever takes you there and forces you into the sermon instead of just letting me play basketball or whatever, that she was gonna clap that bitch up on the head herself so hard that she would wake up a catholic.
Other than the implications, I like the general idea of not training young kids into religion.
Agreed.
Agreed.
They're going after people who indoctrinate minors. Seems good to me with any religion really.
They are going after all Uighur parents. Basically, unless I am reading this wrong, Uighur parents won't be able to bring their children to Mosque or any other religious activities. If they do, they will be punished.
SolidChamp
Banned
Yeah, this is the part I'm down with.
As usual though, China is unrivaled in making things really fucked up and backwards.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Yeah, I don't really trust them to not make it an entire ill-meaning clusterfuck.
However, as someone who has been the target of this and was negatively affected by it even in the short-term, I can't help but feel this sort of idea needs to be more widespread.
Bringing minors to sermons which, let's face it, often times will boil down to hell and damnation even on the good days is just not a good thing.
Wag
Member
But you do go full Breitbart.
Yup. This is a recipe for disaster (perhaps that's the intention)
Yea, I don't get that at all.
Should we take kids away from parents so that they do not model, imitate and absorb the morals and values of the parents? I mean, that basically what religion is, the morals and values of your parents and community. Just because you introduce your children into a religion does not mean that you are entering them into a cult.
Perhaps we should just seal up kids in a box until they are 18 years old? That way they aren't tainted by the morals, values, and religion of their parents.
Also, for everyone who is somewhat okay with this, this is signaling out a religion and an ethnic minority. These rules aren't going to impact buddhists and christians and the like. It is only going to impact this Muslim minority
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I challenge them to do the same for parents teaching their kids that "Chinese" medicine is legit.
BudokaiMR2
Member
You lost me here. The big difference in most cases between those to me come down to.....tax cuts!
These people could still teach them these morals at home. The problem is that a lot of sermons/pastors/reverends/etc. doing actual sermons are fairly horrible people teaching horrible shit even if they try to hide it behind sugary words and out of context verses.
I have never in my entire life heard a good thing about a religious school of any doctrination. And most people who I personally know who were sent to those places either turned out to be abominable human beings or remember it as one of the darkest times in their life.
I can't see any reason why parents should be allowed to do that to their children. If my in-laws suddenly told me they wanted to enroll my child in a buddhist and or shinto school, I would probably be a bit more open as it is one of the most forgiving and open religions in the world but I would probably still argue against it.
I usually try to avoid talking about this on here because I know it's easy to take it the wrong way, but it's because some of the modern still prevalent teachings aren't really a bastion of great morals and have a horrible record when it comes to issues of women rights and other issues. Of course there are plenty of Muslims who don't believe in teaching those sorts of morals but in general it is still very very very very far behind, and the existence of theocracies around the world supporting the sects that push those forward these harmful attitudes is not something that can just be brushed under the rug.
Seductivpancakes
Member
Eh I see religious indoctrination of children as the same as I see parents trying to force their kids go through sports or beauty pageants, which is wrong, but doesn't feel right to have laws to punish people for it.
I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find other countries with more fucked up and backward laws.
I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find other countries with more fucked up and backward laws.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Why is the Chinese government so obsessed with stamping out the Uighurs?
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
Cults imply extremism. Painting all religions and their various sects as such would be disingenuous.
This is a shit policy that could set very dangerous precedent. To say they are going about it in the wrong way is an understatement.
They want control and religion is kind of opposed to that, combined with terror attacks and looking at most war zones of today.
BudokaiMR2
Member
That's not really true. Cults just imply a religious sect that have deviant or 'novel' beliefs.
I don't care what the U.S. Govt. says Scientology is a cult, but I still wouldn't go as far to call them extremists or whatever. Just naive idiots.
I would classify a group of christians who think LGBT are the end of the earth, that science makes shit up all the time, and tell young children they are going to go to hell for the silliest things as kind of 'novel' if I am going to be polite as I fucking can.
Again, I don't agree with generalizing with such a broad stroke but I also think handwaving the indoctrination of minors into religions that could EASILY turn them into bigots is naive and ignorant.
The worst part about this is definitely that it is singling out a single religion, although we all know why this is happening in particular to this sect.
All preachers are evil scum and religious schools are evil as well. Gotcha...
Using such a broad definition of cult in order for it to include religion renders the word 'cult' meaningless and misrepresent all religion with the negative connatations of the word cult.
Scientology is not the same as any of the major religions.
Heaven's Day cult is certainly not the same as any of the major religions.
Those two are most certainly what we would describe as cults in the popular use of the word. A small part, a branch or an individual church of a major religion might get rather culty, but that doesn't mean that the whole religion and institutions of that religion are a cult.
One would be a very ignorant Atheist to think this is a good thing. The Chinese are not upset with religion because of belief in the supernatural they are upset because these beliefs give people freedom outside of the state. If the state found similar freedoms in Atheism they would try to crush that too.
DorkLord54
Member
To some people, exterminating religion is more important than realizing that the Chinese are just doing this to try and regain control of a region that they're losing control over, and will only replace one form of indoctrination with a far more insidious one.
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
And I would describe them as extremist evangelists who don't possess fundamental christian values, certainty not the majority you seem to be implicating them as.
Regardless, your definition is the sociological denotation of the word, not the connotative implication that cults are fully of crazy extremists. And I'm not handwaving that this is not an issue either. I'm saying that the way they are going about it is fundamentally wrong and dangerous.
Also yeah Scientology is fucking nuts dude. Bad example.
Frozenprince
Banned
So just more systemic persecution of the Uyghurs.
Shameful.
Shameful.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Not reading my other posts where I say that I don't agree with generalizing with a broad stroak. Gotcha. Putting words in my mouth is not a good look.
I shared one of my anecdotes where as a young child I was yelled and with spittle flying in face about how I was going to hell just because I had not been dunked in some water by some dude in some fancy robes. Is it the norm? No but it isn't really a huge exception either. I can count my visits to churches on both hands and half of them resulted in bullshit like that. And these were some of those huge mega-churches that exist in the mid-east that have tens of thousands of visitors. Not some crazy guy yelling shit on the corner of my campus.
Please, step down from your high horse. If my mom were still alive she would probably clap your ass over the head too.
Frozenprince
Banned
No it kinda is.
Are you fucking kidding me? Scientology is probably the worst cult in the world. Have you been living under a rock?
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
What church denominations did you visit? Where I used to go LGBT members were accepted and the bible was meant to be something a member of the congregation could learn from and interpret for themselves rather than having it shoved down their throat.
Frozenprince
Banned
Mega churches are actually the worst thing you could look too if you're trying to gauge Christianity. They are wholly for profit entities created by evangelical preachers.
You can't say this
Then say this. You are generalizing and you did generalize in your post about preachers and schools. You aren't limiting yourself to your own experiences.
Stop over-generalizing and I would. Just because you say you don't agree with generalizing while generalizing doesn't negate the fact that you are generalizing.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Okay so scientology is worse than ISIS. Gotcha.
Scientology is a horrible pos organization that involves criminal activities and just general fraud but I haven't seen any videos of them beheading people for abstract reasons.
So no, they are definitely not the worst in the world. Unless you have been living under a rock.
It was mostly various types of Presbyterian but I really can't remember the exact denomination. The best type I ever visited was with my mother's family and it was Souther Baptist.
Great experience that was completely positive. Very upbeat with no condemnations.
I say right there it is my personal anecdote and that it is not the norm. What do you want me to say? Please enlighten me on how I can share that anecdote, say I am not generalizing, state it is not the norm and still be considered to be over-generalizing. Where did I go wrong?
And they also tend to be some of the most popular and well-funded ones in the U.S. That is why I say it really isn't a huge exception.
Not sure why so many people are taking insult at me sharing an anecdote that blantantly shows I was borderline traumatized, state that I don't agree with over-generalization and that it's not the norm, and still get piled on for at worst semantics.
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
Nevermind. Nevermind. Read it wrong. Taking the L.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Yeah, like I said in my first post I completely believe the shit the CCP is going to use this excuse to do will be horrific. My posts might have been a bit off-topic but was just me explaining that in general I do think indoctrination of minors into almost any institutionalized religious school is toxic and should not be allowed.
This seems a really strange thing when I think about what I saw in China a few weeks back. There seemed to be a lot of things that catered to Muslims in the cities. I was in Xi'an for example and the Muslim area is a major area of business and congregation for many different races of Chinese.
Obviously anecdotal evidence, but the Muslim people I met seemed to be integrating really well.
Edit: I guess the fact that they are a majority in some areas is pissing off the COP?
Obviously anecdotal evidence, but the Muslim people I met seemed to be integrating really well.
Edit: I guess the fact that they are a majority in some areas is pissing off the COP?
Wasn't targeting any specific person with my post, just seemed to me as some were missing the wider context here.
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