Support NeoGAF

[Piecake]

I say right there it is my personal anecdote and that it is not the norm. What do you want me to say? Please enlighten me on how I can share that anecdote, say I am not generalizing, state it is not the norm and still be considered to be over-generalizing. Where did I go wrong?

Don't say shit like this?

The problem is that a lot of sermons/pastors/reverends/etc. doing actual sermons are fairly horrible people teaching horrible shit even if they try to hide it behind sugary words and out of context verses.

I have never in my entire life heard a good thing about a religious school of any doctrination. And most people who I personally know who were sent to those places either turned out to be abominable human beings or remember it as one of the darkest times in their life.

In this quote you are saying that most pastors are horrible people who teach awful shit. That isn't a fucking generalization? Jesus Christ...

and this?

I shared one of my anecdotes where as a young child I was yelled and with spittle flying in face about how I was going to hell just because I had not been dunked in some water by some dude in some fancy robes. Is it the norm? No but it isn't really a huge exception either.

You have no idea how uncommon or common your experience is, so don't postulate on how common or uncommon it is. That is a generalization.

 

[duckroll]

Ah, anti-religious folks finding a "silver lining" in a clear and transparent attempt by the Chinese government to commit cultural genocide in a region filled with minorities they want to stamp out. Great showing here. Makes everyone look great!

 

[SirRattleBalls]

Oh China, why am i not surprised.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

Ah, anti-religious folks finding a "silver lining" in a clear and transparent attempt by the Chinese government to commit cultural genocide in a region filled with minorities they want to stamp out. Great showing here. Makes everyone look great!

Ironically, this policy that anti-religous people somewhat support for discouraging getting indoctrinated has the ultimate goal of getting the populace to hate a specific group of people and their different culture.

 

[SgtCobra]

I challenge them to do the same for parents teaching their kids that "Chinese" medicine is legit.

This, but I doubt they will as they probably also believe in that nonsense too.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Don't say shit like this?



In this quote you are saying that most pastors are horrible people who teach awful shit. That isn't a fucking generalization? Jesus Christ...

and this?



You have no idea how uncommon or common your experience is, so don't postulate on how common or uncommon it is. That is a generalization.

A lot does not equal most. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I am not saying the majority are doing this. They are an exception, but at least in my experience not a huge exception.

You also have no idea how common or uncommon your own experience is. This is why I preface it with saying I don't want to generalize etc. but this was my experience.

I am just gonna bail on this thread as I'm not really enjoying getting dogpiled because I shared a traumatic experience I personally had over fucking semantics of all things.

 

[Verelios]

Considering it is specifically about minors, I honestly don't have anything against this idea at first glance.

I know it isn't as well-meaning as it sounds in my head, but I am totally fucking against indoctrination of minors.

I was almost a victim of it myself. My mother specficially distanced us away from her redneck bible thumping (but not reading! KEY POINT) family. However, around the time I was 10-11 my brother's (half-brother just to make this story a bit clearer) step-mom took me to one of those mega churches by luring me in with the awesome new basketball courts they have.

Of course I still got dragged into the sermon and the amount of guilt-tripping and shit they were throwing out on the audience honestly had me feeling like some sort of heathen for not being baptized.

I went home that night crying and told my mom the story and how I felt like I needed to be baptized immediately and she basically told me that if that bitch ever takes you there and forces you into the sermon instead of just letting me play basketball or whatever, that she was gonna clap that bitch up on the head herself so hard that she would wake up a catholic.

Y'know, this happened to me except my cousin is the one that dragged me over to a 4 hour (why?) service. I fell asleep during mass while the preacher was extolling another parable and apparently the preacher stopped for a second I was so loud...he never invited me back.

 

[Spectone]

Just because some Atheists act like jerks on the internet doesn't mean they are all like that.

 

[Piecake]

A lot does not equal most. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I am not saying the majority are doing this. They are an exception, but at least in my experience not a huge exception.

You also have no idea how common or uncommon your own experience is. This is why I preface it with saying I don't want to generalize etc. but this was my experience.

I am just gonna bail on this thread as I'm not really enjoying getting dogpiled because I shared a traumatic experience I personally had over fucking semantics of all things.

A lot means a big damn number and a significant amount. A lot implies at least more than half. A lot certainly does not mean a few bad apples or small minority. That is a massive generalization.

Was I over-exaggerating what you said in my first response way back when? Yes I was, but I was mocking you for your ridiculous generalization.

I never claimed that my experiences were. The only one doing that is you.

We aren't arguing over semantics. We are arguing over you generalizing, and you refusing to understand the fact that you are for some inexplicable reason.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

A lot means a big damn number and a significant amount. A lot implies at least more than half. A lot certainly does not mean a few bad apples or small minority. That is a massive generalization.

Was I over-exaggerating what you said in my first response way back when? Yes I was, but I was mocking you for your ridiculous generalization.

I never claimed that my experiences were. The only one doing that is you.

We aren't arguing over semantics. We are arguing over you generalizing, and you refusing to understand the fact that you are for some inextricable reason.

You say you aren't arguing over semantics and then continue to argue over the semantics of the phrase 'a lot'. A lot is a fairly vague word but nowhere in the definition are you going to find the word 'majority'. It doesn't mean over half. It just means a large number. There are an incredible number of churches etc. around the U.S. or the world at large. Even if 1% of those are hate-spewing deplorables, that's still a lot.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Spoiler

I really shoulda stuck with my statement and bailed...

 

[spekkeh]

I don't see how their policies won't lead to radical backlash.

It's what they're trying to circumvent with their policies.

 

[duckroll]

Where did I go wrong?

When you posted in a thread about cultural genocide with "you know that's not a bad idea".

 

[BudokaiMR2]

When you posted in a thread about cultural genocide with "you know that's not a bad idea".

Shitposting is against the rules Mr. Mod.

I know it isn't as well-meaning as it sounds in my head, but I am totally fucking against indoctrination of minors.

Yeah, I don't really trust them to not make it an entire ill-meaning clusterfuck.

However, as someone who has been the target of this and was negatively affected by it even in the short-term, I can't help but feel this sort of idea needs to be more widespread.

Any sort of reading comprehension would allow you to see my point was that what China was doing was definitely ill-meaning but I wish there was a more worldwide push to keep minors away from indoctrination.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Some of you people act as if you are happy with this.

Do you even realize what you are saying?

 

[MrFatCat]

Might sound like a dick, but i think people shouldn't let children get in touch with religion at a young age. It warps the mind and teach them to refuse science and believe in fairy tale which will have negative consequences on children. I rather they take a math class, a physics class then go play around than standing in a church all day long

 

[Laughing Banana]

I would love to have some folks here go to Uighur and then, when faced with the parents affected by this law, say to their faces: "You know, you shouldn't teach religion to your kids."

We have a story in which a strong identity of a minority group is being forcefully removed and the first inclination that you have towards that is to say, "Religion is evil?" Makes the story about you instead of the poor people being affected?

 

[duckroll]

Shitposting is against the rules Mr. Mod.

This isn't shitposting and this isn't a joke. You're way out of line here.

Any sort of reading comprehension would allow you to see my point was that what China was doing was definitely ill-meaning but I wish there was a more worldwide push to keep minors away from indoctrination.

It doesn't matter, you are effectively derailing a thread about cultural genocide by twisting it into something that fits an agenda. China doesn't give a fuck about indoctrination in minors, China is all about indoctrination in minors. It is very much part of their educational system and nationalistic policies.

Do you know what happens in Xinjiang? Are you aware of the systematic persecution of the people there? That China has been trying to stamp out of the people who don't fit into their national identity? It's disgusting and indefensible. But I guess it's alright to ignore all that, forget the context of what we are talking about, and just make it all about you and your little opinion about religion. Right? That's totally being sensitive and upstanding.

 

[Piecake]

You say you aren't arguing over semantics and then continue to argue over the semantics of the phrase 'a lot'. A lot is a fairly vague word but nowhere in the definition are you going to find the word 'majority'. It doesn't mean over half. It just means a large number. There are an incredible number of churches etc. around the U.S. or the world at large. Even if 1% of those are hate-spewing deplorables, that's still a lot.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Spoiler

I really shoulda stuck with my statement and bailed...

A lot of preachers are evil fucks, but actually that large number of evil preachers only represent a small portion of the total amount!

Good god, lol. If that is what you meant then you need to be a lot more clear and specific with your words. You are still generalizing, but it is within the realm of believeability and not anti-religious delusion

 

[Spectone]

Might sound like a dick, but i think people shouldn't let children get in touch with religion at a young age. It warps the mind and teach them to refuse science and believe in fairy tale which will have negative consequences on children. I rather they take a math class, a physics class then go play around than standing in a church all day long

Some people are so ignorant and prejudiced its not funny.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Smh at some of the responses here, China has taken the "they're terrorist!!" Angle to try and wipe out the ulgyurs, literally torturing some because they want control of the community and some of you are saying that you're fine with this?

Cultural genocide is ok as long as it fits your views eh?!

 

[Derwind]

I'm going to go slightly off topic but in terms of indoctrination, it has nothing to do with exposing children to religion but everything to do with adopting religion into a child's life by force.

And it doesn't have to be religion, people do this with sports, politics, culture... ect

This is entirely anecdotal but I grew up in an Islamic household but my parents were open-minded enough to let me question the world around me including my own faith.

I'm nearing my 30's now and I identify as an Athiest but I luckily for me, I don't have that jaded of a childhood(except with some ultra religious relatives).

Personally, while aspects of religion can be problematic, I think ultimately the people wielding faith are the bigger issue.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

This isn't shitposting and this isn't a joke. You're way out of line here.



It doesn't matter, you are effectively derailing a thread about cultural genocide by twisting it into something that fits an agenda. China doesn't give a fuck about indoctrination in minors, China is all about indoctrination in minors. It is very much part of their educational system and nationalistic policies.

Do you know what happens in Xinjiang? Are you aware of the systematic persecution of the people there? That China has been trying to stamp out of the people who don't fit into their national identity? It's disgusting and indefensible. But I guess it's alright to ignore all that, forget the context of what we are talking about, and just make it all about you and your little opinion about religion. Right? That's totally being sensitive and upstanding.

Yes, I understand the situation and that is why I say it is definitely not a well-meaning and that China is going to make it a clusterfuck. How is that ignoring the context?

However, you ignore that part and put words in my mouth as if I am supporting ethnic cleansing. That is shitposting and I expect better from you.

And considering part of the context is about indoctrination of minors, I don't really feel like I was going off-topic and off-context talking about a similar situation that I personally experienced.

You, sir, are way out of line for belittling my own experience and trying to downplay the point I was trying to make which I specifically quote for your own convenience.

Most people weren't even attacking me because they thought I was applauding cultural genocide as they actually read my posts and understood the context. You are the first one to be obtuse enough to quote me and say that, which is you just putting words in my mouth.

Please again, show me where I say that 'Yeah cultural cleaning is a great idea' as you purport here:

When you posted in a thread about cultural genocide with "you know that's not a bad idea".

I posted in a thread about cultural genocide with the post that although I don't trust China to do it right, I do agree that on the whole indoctrination of children should be more of a worldwide issue, and then went on to explain an anecdote that lead me to this belief.

 

[chillybright]

I challenge them to do the same for parents teaching their kids that "Chinese" medicine is legit.

No Chinese parents after the 80s is doing that lol. Chinese medicine is a relic nowdays. Only old people believe all those crap.

Why is the Chinese government so obsessed with stamping out the Uighurs?

Terrorism.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Would we have the same level of comphrension for parents who believe in white supremacy, or would we agree that some mindsets are better forgotten? Cause most religions are essentially male supremacism morals from 2000 years ago you know. Moral acceptance shouldn't depend on numbers but it actually do, it's an interesting discussion.

 

[RocknRola]

Man.... I was just watching a video about Chinese food yesterday, fell asleep thinking about some delicious chinese dumplings (seriously look at these things! I don't even know if they taste good, I just wanna eat them all!) and now this... China gonna China I guess :S

I have no doubt that this will be abused in the worst of ways and it'll more than likely create some strong backlash from the community in question. Ah well.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I would love to have some folks here go to Uighur and then, when faced with the parents affected by this law, say to their faces: "You know, you shouldn't teach religion to your kids."

We have a story in which a strong identity of a minority group is being forcefully removed and the first inclination that you have towards that is to say, "Religion is evil?" Makes the story about you instead of the poor people being affected?

You've been here long enough to know how a lot of people will respond when it comes to religion. Hopefully they'll dial it back based off of what you're saying.

 

[duckroll]

Yes, I understand the situation and that is why I say it is definitely not a well-meaning and that China is going to make it a clusterfuck. How is that ignoring the context?

However, you ignore that part and put words in my mouth as if I am supporting ethnic cleansing. That is shitposting and I expect better from you.

And considering part of the context is about indoctrination of minors, I don't really feel like I was going off-topic and off-context talking about a similar situation that I personally experienced.

You, sir, are way out of line for belittling my own experience and trying to downplay the point I was trying to make which I specifically quote for your own convenience.

Most people weren't even attacking me because they thought I was applauding cultural genocide as they actually read my posts and understood the context. You are the first one to be obtuse enough to quote me and say that, which is you just putting words in my mouth.

I think you misunderstand. No one has said you are applauding cultural genocide. No one has said you support ethnic cleansing. You seem really worked up because people are "dogpiling" on you, but you don't seem to understand why. It's because you come off as something who comes into a story about something which no decent person should support at all, and instead of showing any sort of empathy for a people who are being systematically wiped out by the government in power, you chose instead to make it about your opinion on religion. This isn't about religion, this is about China using religion as an excuse to wipe out a minority people. This should be about them. If you don't care about them, maybe you shouldn't have posted in this thread at all.

I expect an apology.

Please again, show me where I say that 'Yeah cultural cleaning is a great idea' as you purport here:

"You know that's not a bad idea" refers to the law they are introducing in the Xijiang region. I hope you realize that this isn't even a nationwide thing. This is specifically for a region where they can use for further persecution of the people there. Why don't you talk about that idea? Not interested?

 

[MrFatCat]

Lol American and their 'freedom'. 'Cause i was against parents forcing their religion onto a child means i'm all for cultural genocide right?' Wheres the kid freedom dare i ask? And you know what your former 'culture' is? Slavery. Yeah i'm glad that 'culture' got genocided.

Each culture is different. Not every culture is good. Especially not religion. And if phony belief about gods and angels got erased in place of science and progress. I'm all for it. China may not have religious freedom, but you know what China got? IQ. End.

 

[Derwind]

Lol American and their 'freedom'. 'Cause i was against parents forcing their religion onto a child means i'm all for cultural genocide right?' Wheres the kid freedom dare i ask? And you know what your former 'culture' is? Slavery. Yeah i'm glad that 'culture' got genocided.

Each culture is different. Not every culture is good. Especially not religion. And if phony belief about gods and angels got erased in place of science and progress. I'm all for it. China may not have religious freedom, but you know what China got? IQ. End.

Hoo boy... this sarcasm?

Edit; Nvm.

 

[Piecake]

Yes, I understand the situation and that is why I say it is definitely not a well-meaning and that China is going to make it a clusterfuck. How is that ignoring the context?

However, you ignore that part and put words in my mouth as if I am supporting ethnic cleansing. That is shitposting and I expect better from you.

And considering part of the context is about indoctrination of minors, I don't really feel like I was going off-topic and off-context talking about a similar situation that I personally experienced.

You, sir, are way out of line for belittling my own experience and trying to downplay the point I was trying to make which I specifically quote for your own convenience.

Most people weren't even attacking me because they thought I was applauding cultural genocide as they actually read my posts and understood the context. You are the first one to be obtuse enough to quote me and say that, which is you just putting words in my mouth.

Please again, show me where I say that 'Yeah cultural cleaning is a great idea' as you purport here:



I posted in a thread about cultural genocide with the post that although I don't trust China to do it right, I do agree that on the whole indoctrination of children should be more of a worldwide issue, and then went on to explain an anecdote that lead me to this belief.

You must really suck at getting your point across.

Considering it is specifically about minors, I honestly don't have anything against this idea at first glance.

I know it isn't as well-meaning as it sounds in my head, but I am totally fucking against indoctrination of minors.

Yeah, I don't really trust them to not make it an entire ill-meaning clusterfuck.

However, as someone who has been the target of this and was negatively affected by it even in the short-term, I can't help but feel this sort of idea needs to be more widespread.

Anyone who reads this is not going to be under the impression that you are totally against it. You sound sympathetic. Sympathetic because you agree with preventing the indoctrination of religion.

That, and your seemingly generalizations about religion are why I think people dog-piled on you. It pissed people off, and you playing the victim afterwards by hiding behind your traumatic experience and claiming that you just didn't understand irritated me because it was just such a pathetic way to shut down debate and try to claim the moral high ground.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I think you misunderstand. No one has said you are applauding cultural genocide. No one has said you support ethnic cleansing. You seem really worked up because people are "dogpiling" on you, but you don't seem to understand why. It's because you come off as something who comes into a story about something which no decent person should support at all, and instead of showing any sort of empathy for a people who are being systematically wiped out by the government in power, you chose instead to make it about your opinion on religion. This isn't about religion, this is about China using religion as an excuse to wipe out a minority people. This should be about them. If you don't care about them, maybe you shouldn't have posted in this thread at all.

I expect an apology.



"You know that's not a bad idea" refers to the law they are introducing in the Xijiang region. I hope you realize that this isn't even a nationwide thing. This is specifically for a region where they can use for further persecution of the people there. Why don't you talk about that idea? Not interested?

I said repeatedly that what China is doing here is ill-meaning and a cluster fuck. How is that in any way saying it's 'not a bad idea'

Like I said you were putting words in my mouth.

Waitaminute I am on mobile so no quote but saying 'I don't trust them to not make it an ill-meaning clusterfuck' is considered being sympathetic? I am saying that both their intent is ill and it will have disastrous effects.

If anyone needs help it's you in actually comprehending a person's posts

 

[Tecnniqe]

Personally I'm glad my parents never forced me to attend anything of religion but I always attended if appropriate, like weddings and holidays.

I don't mind religions but I'm not a fan of parents pushing their religion on a young child who don't really have a option to make a decision and knows of nothing outside of what they get told.

But then again that's each to their own frame of mind but I have a feeling China is doing something rather, erm, dark, here.

 

[duckroll]

I said repeatedly that what China is doing here is ill-meaning and a cluster fuck. How is that in any way saying it's 'not a bad idea'

Like I said you were putting words in my mouth.

Seriously, I'm saying this as someone who knows you're not a bad person: I'm not putting anything in your mouth, it's your foot in there. Can you take a step back and instead of trying to defend yourself against what you seem to think are unwarranted attacks, look at what you are saying, read your own posts again, and reflect on the fact that you're saying this about a horrific ongoing human rights violation in China.

Dude.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Seriously, I'm saying this as someone who knows you're not a bad person: I'm not putting anything in your mouth, it's your foot in there. Can you take a step back and instead of trying to defend yourself against what you seem to think are unwarranted attacks, look at what you are saying, read your own posts again, and reflect on the fact that you're saying this about a horrific ongoing human rights violation in China.

Dude.

If your point was that I was out of line for bringing up an anecdote that was only tangentially related you might have a point.

However your post directed at me basically accused me of supporting cultural genocide when right from the beginning I state that I belive both their intent to be ill and it will be a clusterfuck with disastrous results.
Is it necessary to put a 'FUCK CHINA' at the end to make it clearer? I thought the word clusterfuck was a clear enough indication that I think it's a bad idea in this case.

 

[SURGEdude]

Seriously, I'm saying this as someone who knows you're not a bad person: I'm not putting anything in your mouth, it's your foot in there. Can you take a step back and instead of trying to defend yourself against what you seem to think are unwarranted attacks, look at what you are saying, read your own posts again, and reflect on the fact that you're saying this about a horrific ongoing human rights violation in China.

Dude.

I didn't find his post to be an endorsement whatsoever of this kind of bigoted policy, nor a dismissal of its targeted victims. At worst he made an offhand remark of only minor tangible value when offering up his views on indoctrination in general.

 

[duckroll]

If your point was that I was out of line for bringing up an anecdote that was only tangentially related you might have a point.

However your post directed at me basically accused me of supporting cultural genocide when right from the beginning I state that I belive both their intent to be ill and it will be a clusterfuck with disastrous results.
Is it necessary to put a 'FUCK CHINA' at the end to make it clearer? I thought the word clusterfuck was a clear enough indication that I think it's a bad idea in this case.

What I am "accusing" you of, is taking an announcement of a law which is certainly used specifically to target a minority and help wipe them out, and saying that the specific law, regardless of ill-intent, should be applied worldwide. It's inane and insensitive because the law in question here isn't even being applied NATIONWIDE. Do you see that? China isn't "banning religion" here. China is using religion as an excuse in a single territorial region, to encourage citizens to help them persecute the people in that region they want to get rid of. Does that not disgust you? Is your first thought REALLY "man religion sucks so much I -must- express how this actually seems like a good idea if it were used for good purposes instead"?

The biggest problem in these human rights cases, is not just that the government is doing it. It is that most people around the world simply don't care. They have no emotional connection to these people nor do they know anything about them. And so things like that are allowed to happen, especially when a person sees a story like that, and their first thought is not "wow it is awful that this continues to happen, the government is now making it worse, what the fuck?" but rather "oh hey this new law they're using in this terrible thing doesn't seem like such a bad idea, I can relate!". It's very sad.

 

[Ashes]

I think it would translate better to the west and the irreligious if it were Jewish kids.

Suppose we took Jewish kids away from school and gave them to atheists to raise that would make the world a better place, no?

Who on earth could be against that?

 

[iceatcs]

Do they do this to Christians and other religions as well? My understanding is they do.

Oh yeah. My British brother work in China, his Sunday church have no sign outside, even no cross allow.

 

[chillybright]

I found this news article pretty cherry picking and taking words out of context and blowing out of porportion

The new rules is called "Regulations on the Prevention of Juvenile Crimes in Xinjiang". It includes 41 articles and its main goal is to prevent kids from committing serious crimes or terrorism. You can read the full regulationhere (it is in Chinese). The regulation covers education, physical and mental health, religion, basically everything that is pertinent to a kid, and how school, family, and community should help and guide kids so they won't commit crimes or participate terrorist attacks.

The part in question is Article 9. part 3 in the regulation.

Article 9 states: Parents or legal guardians of juveniles are not allowed to:
(1) Perform domestic violence, abandon, or abuse juveniles.
(2) Force or connive juveniles to drop out of school; use or force juveniles to run business, perform street art, or begging.
(3) Organize, lure, or force juveniles to participate religious activities.
(4) Propaganda extremist ideology, force, coerce, or lure juveniles to wear extremist cloths or signs.
(5) Teach, force, lure, or connive juveniles to participate terrorism, extremism, or underground cult activities.
(6) Teach, force, lure, or connive juveniles to participate other illegal or criminal activities.
If aforementioned acts happen, any organization or individual have the right to stop them and report to the police.

These regulations, along with mandatory 9 year education, are standard in most parts of China for decades. And note this is not about Islam alone. It is about religions in general. You can choose your own religion once you are an adult anywhere in China. Minority provinces (total 5 of them) were allowed autonomy when China was established. They all have their own ethics or religions and Chinese government didn't bother to interfere with them at all for 60 years. So why now and why Xinjiang?

Well first of all these regulations will most likely to be applied in other 4 autonomy provinces since Chinese government has a long track record of apply policy in certain regions first, observe the effect, and then expand it gradually. Secondly, there has been more and more frequent terrorist attacks in Xinjiang during the last decade. And almost every single July (usually the beginning of July), there would be a massive attack against civilians and police officers using home-made grenades and C4s. Certain part of Xinjiang has become a warzone since these attacks. To make things worse, the attacks leaked into other parts of China, the most notorious one being the Kunming Train Station. I hate to say this but just like most terrorist attacks around the globe, it was found that all of them were from extreme Islamic groups, and many were juveniles around 15 years old. In Xinjiang they literally keep the young and naive teenagers and kids from school for proper education, brainwash them, and teach them to hate and kill. That is why there is a wider and wider racial gap between Islamic groups and all the other ethic groups, not only in Xinjiang, but also everywhere in China. All the other 55 ethic groups fear and despise Islamic group, and this plays right into the hands of Islamic extremists.

The situation in Xinjiang is not very good. And the regulation in question, although seems desperate by Chinese government, is not very radical. Since we already know about this regulation, it must has been put into practice for a while (this is the most used tricks by Chinese government). And as I mentioned, it will probably be expanded to cover the rest autonomy provinces soon. It will, and probably already have made many young people in Xinjiang back to school instead of being brainwashed by extremists. Chinese government is many things but in terms of religious policy, it has a long track record of leaving religions and ethic groups alone, as long as it does not harm the safety of civilians. All the big crack downs against religions are cults like FalunGong, Quannengshen (Eastern Lightning), and this time, extreme Islamic groups.

 

[TarNaru33]

A lot does not equal most. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I am not saying the majority are doing this. They are an exception, but at least in my experience not a huge exception.

Here is a tip: Look at how "a lot" will read in statements you would likely not agree with to see if it sounds okay to you.

I.E. I know not all Blacks are thugs, but a lot of them are
A lot of Blacks are thugs, though i do know most aren't
A lot of Muslims are terrorists

You can see how using the word "a lot" is read, it most certainly is a generalization that you will understandably be corrected on by many posters.

Threads like this sicken me. Religion has it's fault, but the desire by many Atheist to destroy it is very strange to me, especially when you can see a "silver-lining" out of this ordeal. How can you even think or utter of the "positives" of such a policy when you know full well the purpose of such policy?

 

[hurricanes]

Pretty sure that law was for all religion not just Islam.
Post 89 explain it well.

 

[BobbyRobby]

I can't support this as it's an obvious affront to free expression, but religious indoctrination is an unfortunate thing, especially the treatment of gay kids in Abrahamic religions.

Being taught to repress natural urges or pray them away is highly damaging.

 

[victreeb3l]

Really stupid law.

 

[freeofgreed]

To say that you're against a parent raising a child into their religion, means you'd have to also be against any other forms of influence a parent may have on a child's upbringing. Religion is just one of the many different ways a parent impacts their child's life. So if your argument is that you think "teaching a child a religion when their young is wrong since it removes the child's choice", then you must also be against every other aspect of raising a child since those also remove a child's choice in the same way.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Some sick responses in this thread. Religion brings out people's inner authoritarian.

 

[Kthulhu]

Okay so scientology is worse than ISIS. Gotcha.
Scientology is a horrible pos organization that involves criminal activities and just general fraud but I haven't seen any videos of them beheading people for abstract reasons.

So no, they are definitely not the worst in the world. Unless you have been living under a rock.

ISIS isn't a cult, it's a Wahhabi terrorist organization. One that poses little threat to the United States I might add.

Scientology on the other hand has infiltrated the multiple US intelligence agencies and deleted massive amounts of data related to the church. Scientology also uses brainwashing techniques in order to separate people from their families. If you attempt to investigate the church, you will be followed by private investigators who will attempt to discredit you, expose scandals you may have, and generally destroy you as a person.

Watch a documentary.

 

[ZehDon]

While I applaud any attempts to tamp down on religious indoctrination, it's obviously not done for noble reasons. Any laws designed to target and punish a minority group can't be good.

I'm curious: ignoring the paradox of being in favour of laws designed to turn religious folks into a minority while opposing laws that target minorities, would similar laws in a country that doesn't have an extended history as blemished as China's be acceptable, possibly even "noble"? From my point of view, China's cards are on the table, but the end result would be largely the same regardless of the state in question: the state controls, dictates and operates the fundamental moral, ethical, religious and ideological upbringing of all of its citizens. That's a fairly good definition for indoctrination.

 

[4 is a cutie]

Religious values are human values. Parents will always instill their beliefs into their children and the child will always grow up to reject some values and accept others. Children are about as "lured" into religion as they're "lured" into beliefs in gender roles, race, etc. Although not every parent in every culture will see eye to eye, the one thing we can all agree on is that children should be raised to be accepting, open-minded and empathetic. Ultimately regardless of spiritual beliefs it is up to the parent to instill closed-mindedness into their children.

 

[Soriku]

To say that you're against a parent raising a child into their religion, means you'd have to also be against any other forms of influence a parent may have on a child's upbringing. Religion is just one of the many different ways a parent impacts their child's life. So if your argument is that you think "teaching a child a religion when their young is wrong since it removes the child's choice", then you must also be against every other aspect of raising a child since those also remove a child's choice in the same way.

IMO religion has more negative lasting consequences, but either way if the whole point off this is to do ethnic cleansing, it's obviously not right.

 

[effzee]

Ah, anti-religious folks finding a "silver lining" in a clear and transparent attempt by the Chinese government to commit cultural genocide in a region filled with minorities they want to stamp out. Great showing here. Makes everyone look great!

As long as it only affects Muslims its ok.

Personally I'm glad my parents never forced me to attend anything of religion but I always attended if appropriate, like weddings and holidays.

I don't mind religions but I'm not a fan of parents pushing their religion on a young child who don't really have a option to make a decision and knows of nothing outside of what they get told.

But then again that's each to their own frame of mind but I have a feeling China is doing something rather, erm, dark, here.

A child doesn't have an option for anything. So short of banning religion, taking away kids so a state could raise them, or releasing a series of rules of what can or can't be taught to kids where parents are punished, you aren't going to solve this puzzle.

I am a father who is teaching his kids math, science, my religion, culture, language (2), and decent human values. It can be done! It's not one or the other.

To say that you're against a parent raising a child into their religion, means you'd have to also be against any other forms of influence a parent may have on a child's upbringing. Religion is just one of the many different ways a parent impacts their child's life. So if your argument is that you think "teaching a child a religion when their young is wrong since it removes the child's choice", then you must also be against every other aspect of raising a child since those also remove a child's choice in the same way.

Exactly. Let's also remove kids from Parents who might teach kids anything at all or influence them at all.

yup that sounds good.