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[freeofgreed]

IMO religion has more negative lasting consequences, but either way if the whole point off this is to do ethnic cleansing, it's obviously not right.

In your opinion....

Millions of people grow up religious and become perfectly functioning members of society. Also for your notion to make sense you'd also have to believe that who you are as a child is how you'll be for the rest of your life. My family is religious and I went to church growing up (not that often but still) and that didn't stop me from seriously questioning god/my religion when I was like 14.

 

[Kthulhu]

In your opinion....

Millions of people grow up religious and become perfectly functioning members of society. Also for your notion to mae sense you'd also have to believe that who you are as a child is how you'll be for the rest of your life. My family is religious and I went to church growing up (not that often but still) and that didn't stop me from seriously questioning god/my religion when I was like 14.

Same. I was raised Christian, it didn't stop me from being an Atheist.

Be religious =/= a bad person

 

[Htown]

Okay, when y'all are actually defending a government oppressing a religious minority because you don't happen to like religion, you have lost your damn minds.

 

[King Gilga]

This should apply to every religion, people should chose one through their own life experiences and own personal beliefs. Not from being indoctrinated from birth like most are.

Singling out one religion alone for this is scummy though.

 

[freeofgreed]

This should apply to every religion, people should chose one through their own life experiences and own personal beliefs. Not from being indoctrinated from birth like most are.

This is such a ridiculous thing to say. You do realize that's impossible right? The very fabrc of raising a child is you imparting your values onto it. There's literally no way to raise a child completely objectively without you have significant influence on it. And that goes for whether you're religious or not.

 

[jWILL253]

Some of these posts on this page...

Believing in a higher power isn't the same as being tricked into desiring an Orwellian dystopia.

Quit shitting on people different than you just because it fits your own brand of nihilism hiding behind an Atheist front.

 

[Frozenprince]

Ah, anti-religious folks finding a "silver lining" in a clear and transparent attempt by the Chinese government to commit cultural genocide in a region filled with minorities they want to stamp out. Great showing here. Makes everyone look great!

Seriously.

 

[mieumieu]

I found this news article pretty cherry picking and taking words out of context and blowing out of porportion

The new rules is called "Regulations on the Prevention of Juvenile Crimes in Xinjiang". It includes 41 articles and its main goal is to prevent kids from committing serious crimes or terrorism. You can read the full regulationhere (it is in Chinese). The regulation covers education, physical and mental health, religion, basically everything that is pertinent to a kid, and how school, family, and community should help and guide kids so they won't commit crimes or participate terrorist attacks.

The part in question is Article 9. part 3 in the regulation.

Article 9 states: Parents or legal guardians of juveniles are not allowed to:
(1) Perform domestic violence, abandon, or abuse juveniles.
(2) Force or connive juveniles to drop out of school; use or force juveniles to run business, perform street art, or begging.
(3) Organize, lure, or force juveniles to participate religious activities.
(4) Propaganda extremist ideology, force, coerce, or lure juveniles to wear extremist cloths or signs.
(5) Teach, force, lure, or connive juveniles to participate terrorism, extremism, or underground cult activities.
(6) Teach, force, lure, or connive juveniles to participate other illegal or criminal activities.
If aforementioned acts happen, any organization or individual have the right to stop them and report to the police.

These regulations, along with mandatory 9 year education, are standard in most parts of China for decades. And note this is not about Islam alone. It is about religions in general. You can choose your own religion once you are an adult anywhere in China. Minority provinces (total 5 of them) were allowed autonomy when China was established. They all have their own ethics or religions and Chinese government didn't bother to interfere with them at all for 60 years. So why now and why Xinjiang?

Well first of all these regulations will most likely to be applied in other 4 autonomy provinces since Chinese government has a long track record of apply policy in certain regions first, observe the effect, and then expand it gradually. Secondly, there has been more and more frequent terrorist attacks in Xinjiang during the last decade. And almost every single July (usually the beginning of July), there would be a massive attack against civilians and police officers using home-made grenades and C4s. Certain part of Xinjiang has become a warzone since these attacks. To make things worse, the attacks leaked into other parts of China, the most notorious one being the Kunming Train Station. I hate to say this but just like most terrorist attacks around the globe, it was found that all of them were from extreme Islamic groups, and many were juveniles around 15 years old. In Xinjiang they literally keep the young and naive teenagers and kids from school for proper education, brainwash them, and teach them to hate and kill. That is why there is a wider and wider racial gap between Islamic groups and all the other ethic groups, not only in Xinjiang, but also everywhere in China. All the other 55 ethic groups fear and despise Islamic group, and this plays right into the hands of Islamic extremists.

The situation in Xinjiang is not very good. And the regulation in question, although seems desperate by Chinese government, is not very radical. Since we already know about this regulation, it must has been put into practice for a while (this is the most used tricks by Chinese government). And as I mentioned, it will probably be expanded to cover the rest autonomy provinces soon. It will, and probably already have made many young people in Xinjiang back to school instead of being brainwashed by extremists. Chinese government is many things but in terms of religious policy, it has a long track record of leaving religions and ethic groups alone, as long as it does not harm the safety of civilians. All the big crack downs against religions are cults like FalunGong, Quannengshen (Eastern Lightning), and this time, extreme Islamic groups.

Worth quoting for new page. I am not going to comment on the exact regulations (since I don't live there), but I generally don't like the idea of suppressing religion. It may backfire and even radicalize. Just look at Poland in the communist era (the backfire part; not radicalized... right?).

Following are just some general observations on how local Chinese see Uighurs and muslim minorities:

1. I often hear stories about young UIghur thieves and price gouging and such. Sometimes even from my parents. It is apparently a big problem around train stations etc. I have frequently seen price gouging schemes ("切糕") around my uni campus when I was there 10 years ago. I am told to never buy stuff from them.

2. Despite that, local muslims you see are generally nice. We had minority muslim classmates and we get along pretty well. Even now I often go to halal eating places too. They do mutton well.

3. We have stuff similar to affirmative action in the US for the minorities. Bonus score for uni entrance exams, etc. Some vocal Han Chinese are quite opposed to it but it probably will stay. This could be the reason why they would vote for Trump after immigration to the US (see another recent thread in NeoGAF).

fake edit: Han Chinese care very much about which provinces you were born. There are frequent instances of "province discrimination" in real life and on the Internet. Just think about how to make "Florida man" meme nasty and you get the idea.

 

[Frozenprince]

Pretty sure that law was for all religion not just Islam.
Post 89 explain it well.

Post 89 ignores or deflects the cultural genocide that's been waged against the Uyghurs for decades. Attempting to hand wave away as "not good" while extolling the Chinese government as leaving them alone. There is a massive racial gasp all over China and the government perpetuates it.

 

[mieumieu]

Post 89 ignores or deflects the cultural genocide that's been waged against the Uyghurs for decades. Attempting to hand wave away as "not good" while extolling the Chinese government as leaving them alone. There is a massive racial gasp all over China and the government perpetuates it.

Well, if you talk to most Chinese this way, you will get one or more of these answers:

1) you were brainwashed by the corrupt western media who just wants to split China into pieces
2) they have affirmative action; we are the one being oppressed. (I also often hear "they are not even persecuted when they are caught stealing")
3) we are helping their economy and they can have better living

There is no way to communicate when basic facts are not agreed upon.

 

[Trojita]

Ah, anti-religious folks finding a "silver lining" in a clear and transparent attempt by the Chinese government to commit cultural genocide in a region filled with minorities they want to stamp out. Great showing here. Makes everyone look great!

Came in here to say this, but you already took care of it.

 

[SURGEdude]

I'm curious: ignoring the paradox of being in favour of laws designed to turn religious folks into a minority while opposing laws that target minorities, would similar laws in a country that doesn't have an extended history as blemished as China's be acceptable, possibly even "noble"? From my point of view, China's cards are on the table, but the end result would be largely the same regardless of the state in question: the state controls, dictates and operates the fundamental moral, ethical, religious and ideological upbringing of all of its citizens. That's a fairly good definition for indoctrination.

I'm not bothered by people who choose to worship any religion they want. There is no paradox in opposing parents "right" to push religion on their children.

Obviously as you say China's cards are on the table. This shit is just more of their discriminatory behaviour in service of yet another human rights violation. Another sad chapter from a government that is obsessed with choosing the way it's citizens operate in every arena. The fact that it targets a historically mistreated group makes it even more troubling.

But how you saw my comment as an endorsement of the state dictating fundamental religious ideological mores is odd. People should be free to choose how they want to live and it's precisely the opposite of indoctrination to shift that decision away from the parent and onto the individual.

 

[RK9039]

Good luck with that lol

Okay, when y'all are actually defending a government oppressing a religious minority because you don't happen to like religion, you have lost your damn minds.

.