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[StoOgE]

QFT.

EDIT: I guess we're not talking about stealing a candy bar or a can of soda here either, but about different situations. I mean, stealing is wrong, but it's hardly evil.

Even then, most the time people justify it as "not a big deal" or "I need this for my family" etc..

 

[borghe]

That's probably very true, but I think a lot of those people will still get that nagging little voice in the back of their head that says "This is wrong."

I hate to admit it but I have a history of doing pretty crappy things. Obviously nothing like this, but nevertheless some pretty lousy things. I can definitely assure you that there is no nagging little voice in the back of your head most of the time. You either justify it to yourself as being ok or the right action to take, or you essentially shut down any logical thought and just let things take you where they take you. If most of you think about it, you'll know what I'm saying is true. We've all typically done stuff that we're not supposed to. However very few of us have outright said "I know I'm not supposed to do this but I don't care."

There is still responsibility to be taken for your actions, and there ARE certainly people out there who do horrible things knowing what they are doing is wrong. In this case we will probably never know though. Was he a broken man out of his mind or a complete piece of shit. Given the suicide I would have to say the former. If it were the latter I just don't see someone like that taking their own life (re: OJ)

 

[Stoney Mason]

I'm sure some program will be revamped as a result of this. Any time the press mentions WWE and steroids together, they suddenly unveil some new program to combat substance abuse.

But Jake Roberts explained the problem best: you fly to a town, take downers to sleep, then you need something to wake you up for the show, and repeat it the next day. If you drink or do any other drugs on top of that, it just adds to your troubles. I'd assume there's many guys on the roster who face this kind of problem daily.

I believe the problem lies in the scheduling. You take a guy like Hogan, who obviously has done drugs, but he didn't stroke out or have any weirdness that we know of. But he's also a big enough draw that he can negotiate for time off and not have to worry about money. Other guys are not as fortunate, because not everyone can be Hogan. So you're on the road for 300+ days a year, just the travel would **** with you, and then to add drugs and shit on top of that?

I understand that the product is driven by storylines, and you actually need guys there to keep the storylines going, but perhaps they could find some way to shuffle guys in and out so they get a decent break once in awhile? Like... I don't like Cena, but he's been going for 2-3 years straight, so you know he's gotta be burnt. Taking him off the show would hurt t-shirt sales and stuff, but if they can create a new star in his absence, that helps Cena, the new guy, and the company, all at once.

Jesus Christ who is this reasonable and rationale person posting as bjork over the last few days? I demand to know who is using this account? GF?

But seriously I agree with everything you posted right there. Well done and nice analysis.

 

[bjork]

Warrior rules.

Best character ever in ever. How I haven't earned a Warrior tag by now, I don't know.

Jesus Christ who is this reasonable and rationale person posting as bjork over the last few days? I demand to know who is using this account? GF?

But seriously I agree with everything you posted right there. Well done and nice analysis.

:lol Thanks, I think.

 

[StoOgE]

I hate to admit it but I have a history of doing pretty crappy things. Obviously nothing like this, but nevertheless some pretty lousy things. I can definitely assure you that there is no nagging little voice in the back of your head most of the time. You either justify it to yourself as being ok or the right action to take, or you essentially shut down any logical thought and just let things take you where they take you. If most of you think about it, you'll know what I'm saying is true. We've all typically done stuff that we're not supposed to. However very few of us have outright said "I know I'm not supposed to do this but I don't care."

Exactly.

You might even want to do something and know that its wrong and not do it, but the desire to do it is still there.. then over weeks/months/years slowly start to justify it to yourself to the point that it doesnt seem wrong anymore. Thats very often what causes psychotic breaks.. people justify things that are so unjustifiable they just stop thinking like a normal person.

There are alot of reasons why someone may do something.. it doesnt excuse the act, but it explains it. To label someone as "evil" is way to cut and dry and fails to examine why something really happened.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Mental illness.

Wrong.

 

[Chiggs]

.However very few of us have outright said "I know I'm not supposed to do this but I don't care."

I strongly disagree, although, I'm not saying you're wrong, seeing as how you seem to be pretty honest in your response.

I'll put it to you this way: When I'm going to do something scummy, I will most certainly tell myself "I know I'm not supposed to do this but I don't care," BECAUSE [insert justification here].

 

[itsinmyveins]

Wrong.

What do you mean "wrong"? Are you saying a person can't be mentally ill? :lol

 

[StoOgE]

I strongly disagree, although, I'm not saying you're wrong, seeing as how you seem to be pretty honest in your response.

I'll put it to you this way: When I'm going to do something scummy, I will most certainly tell myself "I know I'm not supposed to do this but I don't care," BECAUSE [insert justification here].

Thats still a justification.

Theives do it all the time.. "Stealing is wrong but my family has to eat", "I shouldnt do this, but the landlord will kick me out of my house".

Very very rarely do you have someone who knows something is wrong, and does it just because they feel like it.

 

[borghe]

I'll put it to you this way: When I'm going to do something scummy, I will most certainly tell myself "I know I'm not supposed to do this but I don't care," BECAUSE [insert justification here].

but ummm.... you just made the point.

jus·ti·fy /ˈdʒʌstəˌfaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[juhs-tuh-fahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -fied, -fy·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to show (an act, claim, statement, etc.) to be just or right: The end does not always justify the means.
2. to defend or uphold as warranted or well-grounded: Don't try to justify his rudeness.

by justifying it you are in fact telling yourself you are right and it's ok.. that's kind of the meaning of the word.

 

[mr jones]

I know everyone wants to vilify Benoit and say "OMG what a monster", but seriously. I'm waiting a while before I pass judgement. I can't believe that they were able to get to the bottom of this in less than three days. I'd like to know that there's definitely his fingerprints on his wife and child's neck, and his skin underneath their fingernails, before just straight up calling him guilty.

If he IS guilty, then... damn. What a schmuck. But c'mon y'all. Lets try getting away from the mob mentality for a second.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

What do you mean "wrong"? Are you saying a person can't be mentally ill? :lol

Wrong.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Wrong.

Stop confusing me

 

[Chiggs]

but ummm.... you just made the point.

I think I missed what we're discussing here. I was just trying to make the point that I still get that little voice telling me that I'm wrong.

Very very rarely do you have someone who knows something is wrong, and does it just because they feel like it.

Ah... gotcha. So, what does that make me, if I know that it's wrong, but do it anyway? Even if I still usually justify it to myself, I still know that I'm wrong.

 

[Raw64life]

I've felt sick all day and still have no idea what to think or say about this even after all the information has come out. It's a total mind**** for me.

Locking the old thread and starting a new one did absolutely nothing to stop all the idiots from posting.

 

[Malleymal]

I respect the man's wrestling ability, but I hate the man that did what he did... thats how it should be. Unless any of us knew him on a personal level, we knew him on a character/performer level. He was great at what he did, outside of that (based on the news) he was a horrible person.

if oj did it, i would still respect his football accomplishments while hating the person he is.


Its not like they killed these people to gain some powers to become a better wrestler/football player, so I know how to seperate the two, like most on this board should....

 

[Stoney Mason]

I respect the man's wrestling ability, but I hate the man that did what he did... thats how it should be. Unless any of us knew him on a personal level, we knew him on a character/performer level. He was great at what he did, outside of that (based on the news) he was a horrible person.

if oj did it, i would still respect his football accomplishments while hating the person he is.


Its not like they killed these people to gain some powers to become a better wrestler/football player, so I know how to seperate the two, like most on this board should....

You can't do that! You are only allowed to feel the way I feel!!!

Spoiler

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Eminem]

I respect the man's wrestling ability, but I hate the man that did what he did... thats how it should be. Unless any of us knew him on a personal level, we knew him on a character/performer level. He was great at what he did, outside of that (based on the news) he was a horrible person.

if oj did it, i would still respect his football accomplishments while hating the person he is.


Its not like they killed these people to gain some powers to become a better wrestler/football player, so I know how to seperate the two, like most on this board should....

Haven't you read a lot of posts here? If you still think Benoit was a good wrestler you obviously support murder.

 

[jmdajr]

I'm not his friend, so your comparison, like every other one you've made in this or the old thread, is useless.

:lol and your posts aren't?

You've made up your mind, good for you! I however, do not agree with your views.
Feel free to call me whatever you want if it makes you feel better.

 

[Ryck]

I respect the man's wrestling ability, but I hate the man that did what he did... thats how it should be. Unless any of us knew him on a personal level, we knew him on a character/performer level. He was great at what he did, outside of that (based on the news) he was a horrible person.

if oj did it, i would still respect his football accomplishments while hating the person he is.


Its not like they killed these people to gain some powers to become a better wrestler/football player, so I know how to seperate the two, like most on this board should....

WRONG.... I do not agree with any of this in fact I believe the opposite completely like most people on this board should.

 

[PleoMax]

So he killed his family?

wow...benoit :__( why...

 

[BigGreenMat]

Give me one scenario where a man kills his perfectly healthy child and it isn't evil or heartless. One.

It is fated that the child will kill him later in life... The child's name is Adolf Hitler... The child is evil...

 

[Striker]

Now, I'm a bit pissed at the WWE for doing that tribute. They should have done nothing. Now I'll keep remembering JR addressing Benoit's other kids: "I know you're sad kids, but let me tell you, your daddy was a good man!"

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[jmdajr]

from wwe.com-

TAMFORD, Conn., June 26, 2007 – World Wrestling Entertainment is stunned and saddened by the details released by local authorities concerning the double homicide-suicide involving Chris Benoit, his wife, Nancy, and his son, Daniel.

However, WWE is concerned with the sensationalistic reporting and speculation being undertaken by some members of the media following the press conference held by the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department and the District Attorney. During the press conference, the investigating authorities made the following points, all of which run contrary to the media speculation that "roid rage" was a factor in the senseless murders and suicide:

1. The authorities stated that all drugs found in the house were believed to be legal prescriptions.

2. Steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation). Authorities had no factual basis to speculate as to Benoit’s state of mind, and rightly did not do so.

3. Toxicology tests have not even been completed, so there is no current evidence that Benoit even had steroids or any other substance in his body. In that regard, on the last test done on Benoit by WWE's independently administered drug testing program, done on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative.

4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.

5. WWE strongly suggests that it is entirely wrong for speculators to suggest that steroids had anything to do with these senseless acts, especially when the authorities plainly stated there is no evidence that Benoit had steroids in his body, pending the toxicological reports, and that they had no evidence at this time as to the motive for these acts.

WWE is continuing to monitor the ongoing investigation being conducted by local authorities.

 

[Fatalah]

from wwe.com-

TAMFORD, Conn., June 26, 2007 – World Wrestling Entertainment is stunned and saddened by the details released by local authorities concerning the double homicide-suicide involving Chris Benoit, his wife, Nancy, and his son, Daniel.

However, WWE is concerned with the sensationalistic reporting and speculation being undertaken by some members of the media following the press conference held by the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department and the District Attorney. During the press conference, the investigating authorities made the following points, all of which run contrary to the media speculation that "roid rage" was a factor in the senseless murders and suicide:

1. The authorities stated that all drugs found in the house were believed to be legal prescriptions.

2. Steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation). Authorities had no factual basis to speculate as to Benoit’s state of mind, and rightly did not do so.

3. Toxicology tests have not even been completed, so there is no current evidence that Benoit even had steroids or any other substance in his body. In that regard, on the last test done on Benoit by WWE's independently administered drug testing program, done on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative.

4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.

5. WWE strongly suggests that it is entirely wrong for speculators to suggest that steroids had anything to do with these senseless acts, especially when the authorities plainly stated there is no evidence that Benoit had steroids in his body, pending the toxicological reports, and that they had no evidence at this time as to the motive for these acts.

WWE is continuing to monitor the ongoing investigation being conducted by local authorities.

 

[Guzim]

I don't even know what to say about this. Benoit was one of my favorite wrestlers ever. But now all this. ****.

 

[dem]

from wwe.com-

TAMFORD, Conn., June 26, 2007 – World Wrestling Entertainment is stunned and saddened by the details released by local authorities concerning the double homicide-suicide involving Chris Benoit, his wife, Nancy, and his son, Daniel.

However, WWE is concerned with the sensationalistic reporting and speculation being undertaken by some members of the media following the press conference held by the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department and the District Attorney. During the press conference, the investigating authorities made the following points, all of which run contrary to the media speculation that "roid rage" was a factor in the senseless murders and suicide:

1. The authorities stated that all drugs found in the house were believed to be legal prescriptions.

2. Steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation). Authorities had no factual basis to speculate as to Benoit’s state of mind, and rightly did not do so.

3. Toxicology tests have not even been completed, so there is no current evidence that Benoit even had steroids or any other substance in his body. In that regard, on the last test done on Benoit by WWE's independently administered drug testing program, done on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative.

4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.

5. WWE strongly suggests that it is entirely wrong for speculators to suggest that steroids had anything to do with these senseless acts, especially when the authorities plainly stated there is no evidence that Benoit had steroids in his body, pending the toxicological reports, and that they had no evidence at this time as to the motive for these acts.

WWE is continuing to monitor the ongoing investigation being conducted by local authorities.

Is the WWE the steriod defense force or something? wtf

 

[bdoughty]

When it is all said and done, Chris Benoit will be a man who killed his wife and 7 year old son. The only person who really knows why it happened is dead. People are always trying to reason why these things happen and need some explanation for everything. If anything threads like this show what is wrong with society. Most of the time is spent vilifying or trying to defend the actions of the murderer, when the main concern should be for the innocent that were lost.

You watched the guy on TV. You have no clue what type of person he was outside of the TV. Just stop.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

2. Steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation). Authorities had no factual basis to speculate as to Benoit’s state of mind, and rightly did not do so.

Well, thats that, no need to discuss this anymore!

 

[thefro]

More proof WWE only cares about its bottom line and protecting its wrestlers' ability to use roids (since Vince McMahon thinks only big roided up guys can make him real money).

For those of you who don't know, most of the roster is on steroids and many of them also use pain pills and other recreation drugs. Testing was started after Eddie Guerrero's death but enforcement has been pretty lax for about the past year (and there's the huge loophole that anything with a doctor's prescription is a-ok).

 

[Fun Factor]

Steroids Steroids Steroids
Seriously, wasn't it comfirmed it was the perscription kind? More like those GMC viatims that are on all the WWE commercials.

Sounds like CNN & FOX, being the trash journalist they are, making shit up to get headlines.

I'm pretty confident it went something like this:

Wife: "Chris, I decided, this isn't working out and I'm going to divorce you"

Benoit: "There's a PPV coming; can we talk about this another time?"

Wife:" It's always about PPV or some match! I'm divorcing you and taking the boy"

That's the thing, when that happenes the fathers usually take the kid & run.
He had enough money to hide, something else was afoot here.

 

[borghe]

Ah... gotcha. So, what does that make me, if I know that it's wrong, but do it anyway? Even if I still usually justify it to myself, I still know that I'm wrong.

sorry. you can't have it both ways. Either you have justified it to yourself or you know it's wrong and there is no excuse for it and you do it anyway. Again, it's the definition of justify. If you are truly justifying it to yourself, you are convincing yourself it is the right thing to do. The "little voice telling you it's wrong" is usually countered by a voice saying "but it's ok in this case because ________."

 

[Chiggs]

4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.

Ah, well that's okay, then.

5. WWE strongly suggests that it is entirely wrong for speculators to suggest that steroids had anything to do with these senseless acts, especially when the authorities plainly stated there is no evidence that Benoit had steroids in his body, pending the toxicological reports, and that they had no evidence at this time as to the motive for these acts.

In Defense of Steroids!

So where's big, tough Vince now? I thought he woulda hit us with some "If you're trying to shock me with the revelation that one of my employees had a dark and violent side, you're wasting your breath. I'm in the garbage business," shit.

 

[ManaByte]

4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.

See that? It wasn't "self defense" or "insanity". He obviously planned this out.

 

[Chiggs]

sorry. you can't have it both ways. Either you have justified it to yourself or you know it's wrong and there is no excuse for it and you do it anyway. Again, it's the definition of justify. If you are truly justifying it to yourself, you are convincing yourself it is the right thing to do. The "little voice telling you it's wrong" is usually countered by a voice saying "but it's ok in this case because ________."

Yeah, I'm probably just looking back on what I did and seeing through my lame excuse to do it. The benefit of recollection, I guess.

 

[bjork]

You watched the guy on TV. You have no clue what type of person he was outside of the TV. Just stop.

That applies to everyone of any celebrity ever. So much for the news.

 

[PleoMax]

So let me post my theory.


Wife wants divorce, this time for real, says a bunch of shit, get's killed, he doesn't know what to do, kills son. Forever in sickness and health, marriage is a big deal to him, that explains the bibles, marriage is forever. Then kills himself. Case closed.

Wow...some sick shit.

 

[HolyStar]

OH NO!!!! Someone found out Benoit was dead and told his kids that he wasn't an evil man without knowing what he did (which was a day later) and now the guy who said the original statement is now a scumbag!!!!!!!!!


Wow, you guys really do not understand what happens when a person dies.

grow up

 

[bdoughty]

That applies to everyone of any celebrity ever. So much for the news.

Could you have lived without seeing Paris Hilton mentioned every five minutes? Of course you miss the point and how it was directed toward the "'cybersluthing and psychoanalysis" from behind the monitor.

Grieving is natural. What you have here in 8 pages is not.

 

[bdoughty]

So let me post my theory.


Wife wants divorce, this time for real, says a bunch of shit, get's killed, he doesn't know what to do, kills son. Forever in sickness and health, marriage is a big deal to him, that explains the bibles, marriage is forever. Then kills himself. Case closed.

Wow...some sick shit.

Bjork, feel free and call this exhibit (A)

 

[borghe]

Yeah, I'm probably just looking back on what I did and seeing through my lame excuse to do it. The benefit of recollection, I guess.

probably, and I mean that in all seriousness. Justifications are rarely reasonable, but it's the fact that we get ourselves to believe them that's important here.

That's my problem with this whole thing. Had he killed them and then gone on the run I would be right there with torch and pitch fork in hand with the rest of that type in this thread. But the fact that he killed himself afterwards shows tremendous regret for what he did. Something obviously wasn't right here, and that's what makes the whole thing INCLUDING his death a tragedy. Especially if there were warning signs and this could have been prevented in any way. In no way shape or form am I excusing him from what happened, but it doesn't make the whole thing any less of a tragedy. Worst case scenario the guy should be in a treatment facility right now with his wife and kid alive and well, not with them on a slab in the coroner's.

 

[Lelielle]

I'll just add to check out my other posts in this thread, I feel they need to be repeated with all this extra news.....

 

[PleoMax]

Bjork, feel free and call this exhibit (A)

I think it sounds very reasonable taking into account what we know (2003 events and the bibles).

Sometimes people snap, seems to me he snapped.

 

[laserbeam]

Roiad rage is certainly possible. It would explain the way the wife was killed. being tied up and choked to death.

Anabolic Steroids are famous for roid rage and depression among other symptoms. He could very well have snapped and went into a rage then when it came down he realized what he did hence the bibles.

Pure hatred wouldnt lead to him placing bibles by the bodies then killing himself. He had to have snapped in some way then came back to reality. It's at that point he killed himself.

Not trying to defend the situation or anything. Its a terrible thing thats happened and a sad day for everyone involved family and coworkers

 

[bdoughty]

I think it sounds very reasonable taking into account what we know (2003 events and the bibles).

Sometimes people snap, seems to me he snapped.

Exhibit (B)

 

[Kabuki Waq]

as people have pointed out...you dont just snap for 3 whole days and then wake up

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

People are always trying to reason why these things happen and need some explanation for everything.

Brings Chris Rock's bit to mind... "What happened to crazy'? What, you can't be crazy no more? Did we eliminate 'crazy' from the dictionary?"

 

[Ryck]

Roiad rage is certainly possible. It would explain the way the wife was killed. being tied up and choked to death.

Anabolic Steroids are famous for roid rage and depression among other symptoms. He could very well have snapped and went into a rage then when it came down he realized what he did hence the bibles.

Pure hatred wouldnt lead to him placing bibles by the bodies then killing himself. He had to have snapped in some way then came back to reality. It's at that point he killed himself.

Not trying to defend the situation or anything. Its a terrible thing thats happened and a sad day for everyone involved family and coworkers

Or he's just nuts?

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

What a copout by WWE.com. Seriously, WWE uses this "prescription" bullshit to cop out of everything when they have their supplier doctors writing them to make it legal. I'm sorry - guys who can bench 300-400 easily, and stronger than 90% of the populace, don't need roids. It's simply for appearance purposes. WWE uses this prescription shit - ALA Orton and several others reported in SI, as a copout. The federal government needs a crackdown on wrestling once and for all - tracing every single one of these doctors with their name on it back.

As for Benoit - what about his first wife? And his tw oother kids? She is definitely gonig to be interviewed to see what history there is there. I mean looking at Benoit - it doesn't seem like he roided his entire career. Did his first wife leave him for the same issues or what?

 

[PleoMax]

Exhibit (B)

I would like to understand what you're trying to do.


?