Support NeoGAF

[Enosh]

I don't get how this is any different than other conquers through history that are celebrated like the mongols in Mongolia who killed 30 million people overall, Cesar has a month named after him and he killed like 1/3rd of gaul

and people who downplay the importance of Columbus are delusional, sure the vikings got there too, but their discovery had no importance on history whatsoever, they got there and then they were gone
Columbus discovery otoh inspired a large portion of europe to go there which resulted in the exchange of people, animals and crops, led to political changes in the destruction of the Aztec and Incan empires, colonization that led to the formation of the US and all the other countries that are there now and had an impact on the balance of power back in europe
the viking voyage is meaningless in comparison
it's not just his achievement that is important but all it inspired and the massive effect it had on world history

 

[adamsappel]

I was taught that Columbus was heroic. I was also taught about brontosaurus dinosaurs and was reprimanded for suggesting that maybe the dinosaurs didn't have green or brown skin. In 8th grade, my history book ended with assurances that we were going to be victorious in defeating Communism and liberating Vietnam. In short, I am old.

 

[GameAddict411]

i was told in school that he was a great man and explorer, they never mentioned his bloody history, infact the school history book was sympathetic with him because he never knew that he stumbled on america(he died right before his crew found out).

 

[Ikael]

The OP's article is pretty intentionally misleading and shitty. By modern standards Columbus was a bad dude for sure but that's not the way you're supposed to look at history, you have to understand it in context.

I am Spanish, and I hate our black legend, but Columbus was a massive asshole, even for its time. He was rightly accused and convicted for crimes against the natives, and disobeying the specific Queen's orders of treating indians "like Christians", which is medieval Europe for "like humans". The bastard even trew a hissy fit for his imprisionment and went to complaint to the King, which in turn, stripped him of all his titles and posessions for being a whiny bitch in top of being a murder. Pity that he didn't died in prision as he should have. He was a horrible person, and many of his contemporaries felt in that way too. No historical relativism here.

That being said, the accusation of "starting transatlantic slave trade" irks me to no end. We Spaniards explicitly banned slavery as early as the XVIth century, along with puting in place the first laws to ever protect American natives and their cultures due to Las Casas epic campaign in favour of indian rights. We even fought a goddamn war in order to end with slavery when American landowners got all uppity and revolted against the Crown for loosing their "encomienda" privileges (horrible forced labour system for natives). So it is pretty rich to hear the accusations of "starting the transatlantic slave trade" from the very people who held the proud monopoly of transatlantic slavery (Britain) for centuries, that were also willing to bleed in order to unrestrict it (free commerce, you know), and the ones who ended it 3 centuries latter (Americans).

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I am Spanish, and I hate our black legend, but Columbus was a massive asshole, even for its time. He was rightly accused and convicted for crimes against the natives, and disobeying the specific Queen's orders of treating indians "like Christians", which is medieval Europe for "like humans". The bastard even trew a hissy fit for his imprisionment and went to complaint to the King, which in turn, stripped him of all his titles and posessions for being a whiny bitch in top of being a murder. Pity that he didn't died in prision as he should have. He was a horrible person, and many of his contemporaries felt in that way too. No historical relativism here.

That being said, the accusation of "starting transatlantic slave trade" irks me to no end. We Spaniards explicitly banned slavery as early as the XVIth century, along with puting in place the first laws to ever protect American natives and their cultures due to Las Casas epic campaign in favour of indian rights. We even fought a goddamn war in order to end with slavery when American landowners got all uppity and revolted against the Crown for loosing their "encomienda" privileges (horrible forced labour system for natives). So it is pretty rich to hear the accusations of "starting the transatlantic slave trade" from the very people who held the proud monopoly of transatlantic slavery (Britain) for centuries, that were also willing to bleed in order to unrestrict it (free commerce, you know), and the ones who ended it 3 centuries latter (Americans).

Er, just because the Spaniards came around quicker doesn't change the idea that they kind of started it. It simply grew far beyond what they had envisioned.

 

[Aeneas]

This is true but so were most great historical figures. If we look back at our history and apply modern zeitgeist morality we won't have much to be proud of, hence why we just focus on the positive aspects, e. g. ignoring the destruction of whole societies by the Romans and praising the roads, aqueducts, law, etc. If Hitler had won in 200 years historians would probably be praising Nazi Germany for unifying Europe and making it more important on a world scale or whatever.

 

[.GqueB.]

Ugh. This is why I hate our education system. It's so fucking whitewashed and uses broad strokes on the brutality, cruelty, and disgusting practices at the time.

"Hey white children...feel bad...but don't feel TOO bad."

What would be the point of teaching this to children? I feel like this is something that needs to be read about as an adult so you can actually form an opinion about it that doesn't center around guilt. It's disgusting and should be known but I don't see the educational value behind it.

The point is to teach kids not just tell them a bunch of shit.

 

[Riposte]

Columbus is a few negative films away from getting his holiday taken away.

 

[FODEA]

This is true but so were most great historical figures. If we look back at our history and apply modern zeitgeist morality we won't have much to be proud of, hence why we just focus on the positive aspects, e. g. ignoring the destruction of whole societies by the Romans and praising the roads, aqueducts, law, etc. If Hitler had won in 200 years historians would probably be praising Nazi Germany for unifying Europe and making it more important on a world scale or whatever.

The problem is you have people wanting to just focus on all the bad and then people who want to focus on all the good.

As for this, it comes off as something written by Russia Today. It's pretty sensationalist and exaggerated. I think most people with a brain understand things didn't improve for aboriginals when Columbus and the Spanish showed up.

 

[aly]

Ugh. This is why I hate our education system. It's so fucking whitewashed and uses broad strokes on the brutality, cruelty, and disgusting practices at the time.

"Hey white children...feel bad...but don't feel TOO bad."

I think this greatly depends on where and when you went to school plus your teachers. Most of my teachers skimmed over this era because we had to spend so much time on slavery and the civil war. Felt like we could barely get to the Industrial revolution on some places.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Why is it a shock, the US is only 48 years removed from having Jim Crow laws.

As a mid-20s American, this startles me every time I think about it. The median age in the US is around 40 years old, so less than 10 years ago most Americans had been alive when Jim Crow laws still were in existence.

 

[IceCold]

Er, just because the Spaniards came around quicker doesn't change the idea that they kind of started it. It simply grew far beyond what they had envisioned.

Started what? Conquering other lands and slavery? These things happened way before Spain even existed. But you have to consider the era this happened in, ie. nformation didn't travel very fast between both continents. Colonists basically had card Blanche to do what they wanted.


I've always found Columbus' origins to be pretty interesting. There's a lot of sketchy shit. It would make a cool conspiracy movie.

 

[Johnny M]

Er, just because the Spaniards came around quicker doesn't change the idea that they kind of started it. It simply grew far beyond what they had envisioned.

I guess you just skipped the previous 1500 years of slave trade, among other empires.

 

[Grym]

The US has a "Christopher Columbus Day"? What the hell? How is that even possible?

More of a 'bank holiday' and not really celebrated. But yes sad but true, we still have a day of celebration for a monster. Every year, I'm sure to tell everyone who listens what the real history of Columbus is and share that Oatmeal comic on social media

 

[richiek]

The US has a "Christopher Columbus Day"? What the hell? How is that even possible?

Columbus Day is essentially an unofficial "Italian American pride day" in the US, since Columbus was Italian.

 

[Fracas]

Makes me sick that some people view this guy as a revolutionary. Terrible human being.

 

[Caja 117]

In my country(DR) most respected History books he is regarded as one of the lesser evil men in that Era, whereas all 3 original ships crew had a bunch of criminals, not to mention everything was done under the order of the crown.

 

[Incognito]

Oh, by the way for Americans specifically interested in reading the history of the European colonization of their own nation in quite a lot of detail, I would highly recommend Bernard Bailyn's 'The Barbarous Years'. Review here:
http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/brutish-beginnings

Thanks for this. Anyway, growing up in the Texas public school system, I can't recall a single instance of ever learning about the negative deeds associated with Columbus's arrival. Quite the opposite, actually. Just huge events on Columbus day where all the kids spent the entire day mythologizing Columbus by making crafts and dressing up.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I guess you just skipped the previous 1500 years of slave trade, among other empires.

The writer specifically said "the transatlantic slave trade". Which is, you know, the relevant part to American history.

 

[FODEA]

The writer specifically said "the transatlantic slave trade". Which is, you know, the relevant part to American history.

How about the first part? Or will that be 'conveniently ignored'?

 

[IceCold]

Columbus Day is essentially an unofficial "Italian American pride day" in the US, since Columbus was Italian.

Then why not go with John Cabot? He actually reached the US unlike Columbus and his Italian origins aren't disputed. The real reason is because he worked for the English crown and the young US wanted to distance themselves from them.

Also there also a proposal to have the US named Columbia? That would have been interesting.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

How about the first part? Or will that be 'conveniently ignored'?

Did these things exist on the new world before the arrival of the Spaniards on anywhere near the same scale? I don't think the writer has to put "...in the Americas" before every sentence to provide context.

 

[FODEA]

Did these things exist on the new world before the arrival of the Spaniards on anywhere near the same scale?

I'm sorry when I read indigenous I thought it meant native people. Not North American native people.

My mistake, I'll try to remember the authors made-up definitions of words that do not match up with dictionary definitions next time.

 

[User 100115]

The US has a "Christopher Columbus Day"? What the hell? How is that even possible?

Because in the US, they like to pretend that the Natives simply vanished or something, not they were wiped out by various countries including our own. Everyone pretty much ignores the existence of Natives until it comes time to bitch about casinos or gripe about pressure to change a football teams name.

 

[aly]

The US has a "Christopher Columbus Day"? What the hell? How is that even possible?

We used to get out of school for it depending on the place.

 

[FStop7]

When I was in school we were taught about Columbus as an explorer but not the terrible things he did. Yet we were taught about the conquistadors.

Also, Adventures in Babysitting.

 

[Venomgxt]

I'll say we change Columbus day to Spartacus day. Whos with me?

 

[Bloodbathnbyond]

In 9th grade I attended Christopher Columbus high school in South Florida, where he is revered as a god of Catholicism. My history teacher didn't spare us the details though.

 

[Pastry]

The writer specifically said "the transatlantic slave trade". Which is, you know, the relevant part to American history.

The belief that the translatlantic slave trade is somehow different than any other slave trade is absurd. They just had to travel farther, they didn't revolutionize slavery or anything. Slavery of some form happened in the Americas prior to Columbus.

 

[televator]

Sure this isn't anything new, but that's the point... I've been pointing this out to people for years and they always had this grade school vision of Columbus the virtuous explorer. Being from Mexico sort of helped to immunize me though since Spaniards in our historical accounts were never regarded kindly, and I always figured that there was something the teachers in the US weren't telling me about Columbus... Once I found out and saw how patently absurd it was for the US to celebrate Columbus by dedicating a formal holiday to him, I realized we might as well have a fucking Hitler day. No, that isn't hyperbole either. IF WE CELEBRATE COLUMBUS, WE MIGHT AS WELL CELEBRATE HITLER.

 

[Chichikov]

He was arrested for killing natives? Seems hard to believe that the same nation that gave us conquistadors had such a progressive view on the subject.

He was removed for the way he ran the colony, and yeah, he was considered a brutal and ruthless tyrant by his contemporaries.

p.s.
The whole "but everybody did it back then" narrative doesn't really hold water, there were people who opposed such practices at the time (and way before that). Now it's true, there were more ruthless assholes then there are now, but it's not a good enough to celebrate them.

 

[Aeneas]

Sure this isn't anything new, but that's the point... I've been pointing this out to people for years and they always had this grade school vision of Columbus the virtuous explorer. Being of Mexican descent sort of helped to immunize me though since Spaniards in our historical accounts were never regarded kindly, and I always figured that there was something the teachers in the US weren't telling me about Columbus... Once I found out and saw how patently absurd it was for the US to celebrate Columbus by dedicating a formal holiday to him, I realized we might as well have a fucking Hitler day. No, that isn't hyperbole either. IF WE CELEBRATE COLUMBUS, WE MIGHT AS WELL CELEBRATE HITLER.

Well I bet Mongolia has a Genghis Khan day

 

[huxley00]

Columbus hating is so en vogue, it is kind of annoying to be frank. Yes, he was a beast, but not the greatest monster history ever conceived. Look at any other people confronting and taking land from another people. Rape, murder, dismemberment and looting are par for the course. Not that it justifies it, but lets at least be honest with ourselves.

 

[Messofanego]

I'll say we change Columbus day to Spartacus day. Whos with me?

Or Bartolome Day.

If you don't like that, call it Indigenous People's Day. Or perhaps Chris-Columbus-was-a-turd Day. I'd even settle for just calling it MONDAY.

But please, oh please

do not call it Columbus Day.

 

[BruiserBear]

Sure this isn't anything new, but that's the point... I've been pointing this out to people for years and they always had this grade school vision of Columbus the virtuous explorer. Being from Mexico sort of helped to immunize me though since Spaniards in our historical accounts were never regarded kindly, and I always figured that there was something the teachers in the US weren't telling me about Columbus... Once I found out and saw how patently absurd it was for the US to celebrate Columbus by dedicating a formal holiday to him, I realized we might as well have a fucking Hitler day. No, that isn't hyperbole either. IF WE CELEBRATE COLUMBUS, WE MIGHT AS WELL CELEBRATE HITLER.

Being a product of the U.S educational system, it is rather eye opening to learn the truth as an adult.

 

[Htown]

Of course there people here are defending this guy. It's a thread that's remotely related to race, so of course the defense force comes out.

We've already had "the accounts are exaggerated", "it wasn't that bad in context", and "bububut slavery already existed." What else ya got?

 

[huxley00]

Of course there people here are defending this guy. It's a thread that's remotely related to race, so of course the defense force comes out.

We've already had "the accounts are exaggerated", "it wasn't that bad in context", and "bububut slavery already existed." What else ya got?

Who knows? Its hard to take historical records from the 1500s as defacto proof. You're being just as obtuse by assuming everything that is said against columbus is fact and inscrutable.

 

[Darksol]

I'm from Canada. I was never taught that he was anything more than a vile man who stumbled into his greatest discovery, and was especially cruel, even by the standards of his day.

Now I want to rewatch The Sopranos episode about Columbus Day.

 

[User 100115]

Columbus hating is so en vogue, it is kind of annoying to be frank. Yes, he was a beast, but not the greatest monster history ever conceived. Look at any other people confronting and taking land from another people. Rape, murder, dismemberment and looting are par for the course. Not that it justifies it, but lets at least be honest with ourselves.

Yes, but not all of those people have a national holiday in the US is the point.

 

[huxley00]

Yes, but not all of those people have a national holiday in the US is the point.

A good point it is, the holiday should be removed, I can agree with that.

 

[FODEA]

Of course there people here are defending this guy.

How about defending reality? Countering a wrong with your own wrong doesn't make anything right.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

The belief that the translatlantic slave trade is somehow different than any other slave trade is absurd. They just had to travel farther, they didn't revolutionize slavery or anything. Slavery of some form happened in the Americas prior to Columbus.

The Atlantic slave trade was unique though. It was a codified, legally organized enterprise which lasted centuries and victimized millions of people, and formed a key part of the (often religiously justified) bedrock of economic and social white supremacy in the New World.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Who knows? Its hard to take historical records from the 1500s as defacto proof. You're being just as obtuse by assuming everything that is said against columbus is fact and inscrutable.

Contrary to popular belief, people in the 1500s were capable of seeing and writing things down. There is really no evidence against Columbus-as-a-shitheel and a hell of a lot of evidence for it, so no, it's really not being "just as obtuse" to assume that it's probably accurate that he was a shitheel.

 

[Caja 117]

Who knows? Its hard to take historical records from the 1500s as defacto proof. You're being just as obtuse by assuming everything that is said against columbus is fact and inscrutable.

And Considering Columbus had a lot of enemies (including people in high ranks in spain) given the money he was receiving from all of this (10 percent of everything) it shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[News Bot]

Assassin's Creed II: Discovery's treatment of Columbus is a pretty succinct reflection of the "history" in that series.

Columbus is one of history's many monsters. It's impossible to defend him.

 

[inm8num2]

And yet, we still have a named holiday for the bastard.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Columbus hating is so en vogue, it is kind of annoying to be frank. Yes, he was a beast, but not the greatest monster history ever conceived. Look at any other people confronting and taking land from another people. Rape, murder, dismemberment and looting are par for the course. Not that it justifies it, but lets at least be honest with ourselves.

Appeals to historical relativism are so en vogue. It's kind of annoying, to be frank. Yes, he was a beast. Enough for multiple disgusted accounts of his actions to be written in his time by fellow countrymen. Enough for him to be jailed (although later released) and stripped of his governorship by the Spanish Crown.

 

[ElFly]

The except chapter contains bonus material on Woodrow Wilson, racist and imperialist, and Helen Keller, communist.

To be fair, she was deaf and blind.

 

[Gannd]

Appeals to historical relativism are so en vogue. It's kind of annoying, to be frank. Yes, he was a beast. Enough for multiple disgusted accounts of his actions to be written in his time by fellow countrymen. Enough for him to be jailed (although later released) and stripped of his governorship by the Spanish Crown.

It allows us to feel superior to our past.

Columbus Day isn't even a "thing" about Columbus and there are no celebrations about him. In grammar school we were taught the happy histories but in jr high we learned what actually happened. I don't think we need to teach 8 year olds about genocide.

 

[Caja 117]

Appeals to historical relativism are so en vogue. It's kind of annoying, to be frank. Yes, he was a beast. Enough for multiple disgusted accounts of his actions to be written in his time by fellow countrymen. Enough for him to be jailed (although later released) and stripped of his governorship by the Spanish Crown.

See 10% of all revenues went to him.