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[zou]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/circumcision-rates-declining-health-risks-rising-study-says/

Well, that single google search didn't go quite as I thought it would.

The 1989 study by Wiswell that those numbers are drawn from is heavily disputed.

- It failed to account for any other factors, such as maternal infection and high or low birthweight.
- The study was retrospective and only included sick and hospitalized babies
- The parents may have been instructed to retract the foreskin
- Their method to test for UTIs has a false-positive rate of about 15%
- It wasn't recorded whether the mother breastfeed or not, which reduces the risk of UTIs

In fact, none of their studies included a control group of infants where the foreskin was left alone

Rates in Europe are vastly lower in uncircumcised boys, pointing to a different cause. One of which might be the force-able retraction by ignorant doctors, which would introduce the bacteria.

 

[CSJ]

Adult circumcision is way worse than infant circumcision.

https://www.vice.com/en_dk/article/men-explain-why-they-were-circumcised-as-adults-330

Could be worse, don't speak for everyone.

I had mine done about 7/8 years ago.
However, shortly after waking up from the operation I went to take a leak and, well, I was dripping blood all over the floor. Had to go back into the operating room.

They had to cauterize my dick, right on the fresh wound below the tip.
Without anaesthetic.
Nurse asked me if I wanted to hold her hand.
I'm a grown man.
We all laughed.
Then I didn't laugh.

Unlike most people I actually needed it done though, personally it's much better now than it was before; I wish I had it done when I was younger as all my sexual encounters were painful. I don't regret it at all.

 

[Turnip Truck]

(What is the plural for a bunch of dicks?).

Congress

 

[Cyanity]

Having dick shape preference in prejudice now?

If your dick shape preference coincides with being ok with genital mutilation, then sure it is.

 

[Jaymageck]

For the people who think hygiene is a point - do you support having your head hair follicles removed to avoid having to wash your hair?

Oh, you don't? Something about hair serving a purpose and allowing you options? You would've been mad if your parents removed it without your permission when you were young?

I guess maybe you think if you lived in a culture where everyone forcibly removed their kids hair follicles it would be fine to continue to do so. After all, if you didn't, the kid would get picked on for having hair! Who cares what this 'science' says, the kid has to fit into society as soon as they're born! Why let them make the choice for themselves later when we can make it for them now?

...

Some people may find this comparison ridiculous. I don't. The idea that people support the idea of chopping off part of someone's body at birth, removing a bunch of nerve endings and effecting that child's development, for the type of marginal and debatable 'benefits' that circumcision offers is ridiculous to me, especially as those argued benefits are also reaped by washing and using contraception when having sex with untested people, things that people should be doing anyway. It is just as ridiculous as removing any other part of the body for the same types of reasons.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Having dick shape preference in prejudice now?

Having dick shape preference about your own baby child is creepy as fuck. Let him decide when he will be old enough to make a choice. It's his sex life not yours.

 

[Autoignition]

Here's my completely 100% scientific opinion:

Cut dicks aren't fun to play with. Uncut 4lyfe.

Having dick shape preference about your own baby child is creepy as fuck. Let him decide when he will be old enough to make a choice. It's his sex life not yours.

My mom was like this. She just volunteered to me one day that my brother is circumcised because she thinks uncut dicks are gross. I was like... you're not the one who's going to see it, though?? She was afraid of his dick scaring away women, true story.

 

[TheFlow]

First of all a penis is not attractive regardless of cut.

Second of al there is no point to have the operation unless for religious purposes
.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Having dick shape preference about your own baby child is creepy as fuck. Let him decide when he will be old enough to make a choice. It's his sex life not yours.

It's more along the lines of I think every male should be cut by default so I'm gonna do that for my kids. But aright lets make it a Pedo thing.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The idea that people support the idea of chopping off part of someone's body at birth, removing a bunch of nerve endings and effecting that child's development, for the type of marginal and debatable 'benefits' that circumcision offers is ridiculous to me, especially as those argued benefits are also reaped by washing and using contraception when having sex with untested people, things that people should be doing anyway. It is just as ridiculous as removing any other part of the body for the same types of reasons.

Yeah, this stood out to me as well. Like, who is saying, great, I'm circumcised, now I never need to wash my penis or wear condoms again! Yeah, your odds of getting HIV from intercourse drop from 40% to 20%, but a 20% chance of getting HIV is still way too goddamn high to risk unprotected sex. Oh, you can't feel anything through that condom? Guess you wish people hadn't messed with your junk in infancy.

 

[Cyanity]

It's more along the lines of I think every male should be cut by default so I'm gonna do that for my kids. But aright lets make it a Pedo thing.

So you don't care what your future kids think. Already off to a good parenting start.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

If your dick shape preference coincides with being ok with genital mutilation, then sure it is.

If we're going to make it some mutilation thing too, then lets talk about piercings, tattoos, shit even cutting your hair.

I hope you like hairy women, cause that's what god intended. And god forbid you get your young girls (or boys) ears pierced, which is also quite common. Or is there an arbitrary line between what does and does not count as mutilating the body?

So you don't care what your future kids think. Already off to a good parenting start.

Every parent has to make executive decisions, wtf?

 

[GreyWind]

If we're going to make it some mutilation thing too, then lets talk about piercings, tattoos, shit even cutting your hair.

but you have a choice when doing these things. The baby doesn't.

 

[Brakke]

Did any Darwinists show up or nah?

Congress

Well at least this thread wasn't a total bust.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

but you have a choice when doing these things. The baby doesn't.

Ah but you get your child's hair cut, and many parents have their kids ears pierced too. The children didn't choose.

 

[manakel]

but you have a choice when doing these things. The baby doesn't.

Wasn't aware a baby could advocate as to whether they want their hair cut or not.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

If we're going to make it some mutilation thing too, then lets talk about piercings, tattoos, shit even cutting your hair.

I hope you like hairy women, cause that's what god intended. And god forbid you get your young girls (or boys) ears pierced, which is also quite common. Or is there an arbitrary line between what does and does not count as mutilating the body?

Call me crazy, but I'd say the line is pretty reasonable, and not arbitrary at all.

Is it your body? Do what you will with it. Shave it, tattoo it, cut parts off, add extra parts, what the fuck ever.

Is it someone else's body? You don't get to do things to it, especially not permanent alterations at knifepoint, without their express desire/consent (except in case of medical necessity).

 

[Sora the Cat]

Ah but you get your child's hair cut, and many parents have their kids ears pierced too. The children didn't choose.

Is this really your argument? Those things are not a permanent change to his body.

 

[GreyWind]

Wasn't aware a baby could advocate as to whether they want their hair cut or not.

They can't, that's right but you have the power to give him a choice in the future. I've heard the procedure is painful in older males but at least you gave him the choice because like you've said, he could not advocate as to whether he wanted it or not.

 

[EchoChamber]

Masturbation without foreskin must be awful.

 

[Cyanity]

Ah but you get your child's hair cut, and many parents have their kids ears pierced too. The children didn't choose.

I'm sorry, what? How are these things comparable to circumcision? You can grow your hair back. You can't grow your foreskin back.

Spoiler

what the fuck

 

[Mackenzie 92]

just curious how many in the anti-circumcision camp actually have uncut dicks and have lived with it their whole lives in the US?

also any uncut guys who wish they would have had circumcision as an infant?

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

I'm sorry, what? How are these things comparable to circumcision? You can grow your hair back. You can't grow your foreskin back.

Spoiler

what the fuck

Good, cause it would suck to have to do it routinely to maintain the superior dick.

 

[The Lamp]

Having dick shape preference in prejudice now?

Calling people disgusting for their penises is irrational and prejudicial, yes

 

[RM8]

Masturbation without foreskin must be awful.

It's really not :x

We have people here saying that they don't regret getting it done as adults. I don't mean to say it doesn't desensitise part of your penis to some degree, but it's really not what some of you have in mind. I think you can believe it's an unnecessary practice and I'd agree, but there's no need to be ignorantly silly and hyperbolic about it.

 

[Cyanity]

stop👏chopping👏parts👏of👏your👏kids'👏dicks👏off

I'm out

 

[TickleMeElbow]

just curious how many in the anti-circumcision camp actually have uncut dicks and have lived with it their whole lives in the US?

also any uncut guys who wish they would have had circumcision as an infant?

I'm not anti-circumcision per-se, but I think it's a dumb practice if it isn't medically necessary. I was born in Japan so I'm uncut, but spent most of my life in the US.

I'm happy I wasn't circumcised.

 

[EchoChamber]

It's really not :x

We have people here saying that they don't regret getting it done as adults. I don't mean to say it doesn't desensitise part of your penis to some degree, but it's really not what some of you have in mind. I think you can believe it's an unnecessary practice and I'd agree, but there's no need to be ignorantly silly and hyperbolic about it.

I'm genuinely curious, do you use lube or something like that?

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Calling people disgusting for their penises is irrational and prejudicial, yes

I think you're taking my statement far too literally and seriously.

Man people are super defensive about this, I had no idea it's such a controversy.

For what it's worth I'm glad I was cut. My girlfriend is too and agrees that our son will be cut.

 

[Jenov]

You guys keep quoting that psychology today article like it's fact. It's an opinion blog. It's not a professional article or study you know. Not to mention it's not even authored by a physician, the links within are broken, and it even mentions it's just a copy of someone else's blog (that also has a broken link, lol). Hardly scientific. Even some of the supposed references cited are bullshit (Bollinger 2010: Over 100 deaths from circumcision a year? False and another study disputing it here ).

It's fine to argue the problems with circumcision, but use better sources, please.

I've no idea how legit this is, but if there are actually 170 deaths a year annually a a result of circumcision then that alone is reason to stop doing it. Especially since it's completely pointless.

https://www.circinfo.org/USA_deaths.html

Again, no, it's not true. That Bollinger study was bs, as linked to above. There was a real study done in Iran that showed this to be untrue as well (Here.)

Oh, and look another study on actual effects of circumcision on male sexual functions: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881635/

 

[mantidor]

The mutilation of genetalia is a purely religious thing that primarily exists in Africa, the Middle East and North America. I see it as a symptom of an unhealthy view on sexuality. Only through education can we combat this abominable treatment of boys and girls.

At the end of the day this is what is happening, it's a crazy practice born out of the demonization of sex, and people still want to do it.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Any scientist would tell you that you shouldn't cut your PNAS.

 

[Duji]

Did anyone mention the keratinization of the head of the penis?

The foreskin is supposed to protect the very sensitive head. Without the foreskin, the head is exposed to the fabrics of clothing and begins to harden over time, losing its shine, moisture and sensitivity.

Some fabrics -- poorly meshed swimming trunks, and harder towels are extremely uncomfortable to use. It's like sandpaper on sensitive skin.

One can actually make "glove" of sorts from soft fabric to act as an in-place foreskin that, when worn 24/7 for enough time, the skin on the head of the penis begins to de-keratinize and return to normal.

There really is no reason anyone would want to have the head of their penis exposed 24/7. The foreskin serves an actual functioning purpose.

 

[Nivash]

Did any Darwinists show up or nah?

Hi Brakke, I'm the Darwinist on call today. In my opinion, the question is moot. Over time, evolution will either see to it that uncircumcised men are deselected from mating, which will lead to men naturally evolving away foreskin or - conversely - the deaths from circumcision will lead to the uncircumcised outbreeding the circumcised or - conversely - the increased deaths from HIV in the uncircumcised leading to the circumcised outcompeting the uncircumcised. Either way, the more fit group will outcompete the less fit, and human male genital anatomy will adapt to match this environment.

Thank you for using Call-a-Darwinist. You will be sent an invoice for the cost of this service within five working days. We stress that you pay this fee promptly. Any late payments will be collected by Social Darwinists who deem such behaviour as unfit.

Have a nice day!

 

[ghostofsparta]

Did anyone mention the keratinization of the head of the penis?

The foreskin is supposed to protect the very sensitive head. Without the foreskin, the head is exposed to the fabrics of clothing and begins to harden over time, losing its shine, moisture and sensitivity.

Some fabrics -- poorly meshed swimming trunks, and harder towels are extremely uncomfortable to use. It's like sandpaper on sensitive skin.

One can actually make "glove" of sorts from soft fabric to act as an in-place foreskin that, when worn 24/7 for enough time, the skin on the head of the penis begins to de-keratinize and return to normal.

There really is no reason anyone would want to have the head of their penis exposed 24/7. The foreskin serves an actual functioning purpose.

Of course it does, but Americans don't believe in science - see our president. We like to keep doing what we've been doing for ol times sake

 

[RM8]

I'm genuinely curious, do you use lube or something like that?

Nope, lol.

 

[Duji]

I think you're taking my statement far too literally and seriously.

Man people are super defensive about this, I had no idea it's such a controversy.

For what it's worth I'm glad I was cut. My girlfriend is too and agrees that our son will be cut.

Cutting your son(s) is in an infringement on their right to choose for themselves when they're older. Your visual preferences don't take precedence over a child's right to their own body.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

I see a lot of post about the horror and pain a child goes through. I suspect many people posting have not actually seen or been involved in this. I took my son and was right there with him during the entire procedure. I'm not religious but I did go to an expert and someone with plenty of experience. Sure its a huge stereotype but I honestly looked up a Doctor with a mineral in his last name that specialized in it. I took my son and they put this little device on him that insures you can only cut what you are supposed too. The give me a sugar cube wrapped in like wet cloth and told me to let my son suck on it. As soon as you put that sugar in his mouth you can see the standard sugar high reaction. He was like damn this is tasty. At that moment the Doctor did his business and my son gave out a single WTF yell and then immediately was like hey give me back that sugar to suck on. On my way out of the office I tossed the sugar in the garbage and he was out like a light. The whole procedure took 5 minutes. Sure in any medical procedure there is risk but people are massively overstating the pain and horror of it. My experience in Canada was smooth and easy. My wife was in the car crying the whole time but to me it was a Father's decision and she agreed but would not be involved.

A fathers decision... Jesus fucking Christ. Are you Jephthah? That sounds abusive af.
Also, if you had read the research shared on this thread, your child being quiet was the result of a shock state from the pain.

 

[OmegaX]

Please, guys. Stop this cycle of hate. Some of you were mutilated as babies. It doesn't mean you have to repeat this mistake and do it to your sons as well.

 

[oxidax]

My parents didn't tell the doc to do it when I was born. The only thing that sucked about me coming forward and wanting to have it done was the healing process. It's harder when you're a teenager and having to go through that.

Other than that, I like it better this way. I personally enjoy sex better than before. My girlfriend who's been with me since before I was circumcised not only enjoys oral better, but also told me that it feels better circumcised. Just my 2 cents and personal experience.

 

[darscot]

A fathers decision... Jesus fucking Christ. Are you Jephthah? That sounds abusive af.
Also, if you had read the research shared on this thread, your child being quiet was the result of a shock state from the pain.

Well this shock state lasted a few seconds and I have stated my reasons several times. To each their own and it matters little to me what others consider abuse that I consider in the best interest of my son.
The whole Father's right thing was simply because I have a penis so my wife felt I would make the best decision on the subject. I would feel the same in any Hetro relationship unless your wife had formal education or specialization on the subject.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

I think you're taking my statement far too literally and seriously.

Man people are super defensive about this, I had no idea it's such a controversy.

For what it's worth I'm glad I was cut. My girlfriend is too and agrees that our son will be cut.

Funnily enough the most defensive people are the cut crowd. Gotta justify it I guess.

 

[manakel]

Well this shock state lasted a few seconds and I have stated my reasons several times. To each their own and it matters little to me what others consider abuse that I consider in the best interest of my son.

Preach, brother. Don't let the hyperbolic posters make you feel like you "mutilated" your son. Seriously some people are acting like parents are lighting their sons on fire and sacrificing them. I honestly never realized people felt THIS strongly against it.

Funnily enough the most defensive people are the cut crowd. Gotta justify it I guess.

Clearly you haven't read this thread in it's entirety. Because it is very much the other way around.

 

[I'm new be nice]

I'm surprised people still do it these days. I had it done to me, I would never do that to my child.

 

[D6AMIA6N]

Some of the response in here are pretty odd. People use shame, or talk of being different because someone is or is not circumcised. I'm 38, and can't really recall seeing tons of dicks in my life, it's not like people walk around with their dicks out. I played football and lacrosse in high school, and routinely visit the gym, yet still, I can't really recall having a dick comparison where someone who was uncircumcised was ridiculed... So that argument to me is total BS

 

[LordOfChaos]

The vast majority of the worlds men are uncut, it's obviously not an evolutionary burden. Probably made sense for tribes of desert nomads who didn't take showers, it's pretty fucked up to force on a baby without medical need today.


It's not like vaccines where the science is clear on benefits either, circumcision is a big mixed bag in every way, so why do it. A few hundred boys die a year from it, not much in teh scope of things, but as a parent - why even take that risk?

 

[ElNino]

Masturbation without foreskin must be awful.

Why? It's not a problem at all. ;-)

 

[SirMossyBloke]

Preach, brother. Don't let the hyperbolic posters make you feel like you "mutilated" your son. Seriously some people are acting like parents are lighting their sons on fire and sacrificing them. I honestly never realized people felt THIS strongly against it.


Clearly you haven't read this thread in it's entirety. Because it is very much the other way around.

I have read many threads on GAF about this, not just this one.

 

[Burgess_101]

Am I the only one in this thread who was circumcised as a baby and wishes they weren't?

I am from the UK and me and my two brothers were circumcised due to my grandfather being Muslim.

I strongly resent the fact I was circumcised for the reasons of religion and the thought that choice was taken away from me lately has really made me resentful.

 

[HappehLemons]

So much pseudoscience in here that it's painful to read. This is the same type of logic used by climate change deniers who see it snowing outside and think that everything's ok with the world.

You seem pretty angry, but it seems I'm not wrong about this I looked up the source on that article, I was right. The PTSD thing was for older kids getting cut, not for babys getting it done like the title of the myth said.

Maybe you're just confused. I'm not for getting you foreskin cut off, I just pointed out that one myth not being true.