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Golden Dawn and Syriza clash over ‘Heil Hitler’ cries in Greek parliament

The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party is at the centre of another political row in Greece after one of its MPs was expelled from parliament amid cries of “Heil Hitler”.

The sitting president had already warned Panayiotis Iliopoulos for repeatedly violating parliamentary rules by insulting fellow deputies.

After he had called them “goats”, “scoundrels” and “wretched people”, security guards were called to lead him away.

The phrase “Heil Hitler “ was clearly heard three times – although who shouted it is in dispute. Golden Dawn claims the cries came from left-wing deputies from the opposition Syriza party.

“For the second time this week we hear Hitler being glorified inside parliament by Golden Dawn MPs. It’s strange the fact that in order to distance themselves from praising Hitler in a provocative way, they claimed it was me who uttered this phrase ironically. But this is refuted by their own evidence,” he told euronews.

Full Article with Video.

 

[Mii]

Vice did an interview with the Golden Dawn at their HQ for their HBO show on the European Union austerity down-spiral. It's worth a view for anyone who wants to learn more about the absurdity that is Greek politics right now. Not a good showing for the birthplace of democracy.

Greece is going to be going through many more years of ugliness before their citizens' lives return to anything remotely resembling what we would consider normal.

 

[Dram]

I wonder if it's safe for foreigners living there?

 

[Wafflecakes]

Greece is such a mess.....

 

[ComputerMKII]

What's happening over there is scary.

 

[SD-Ness]

The VICE segment was pretty informative. I need to read more about this.

One of dudes at the Golden Dawn HQ was pointing out a book by Albert Speer or Joseph Goebbels and then had the balls to say "this doesn't mean we're Nazis though." crazy fucks.

Pretty scary. The anarchist guy said the equation goes like this: economy goes down the drain, right wing blames immigrants/minorities, right wing gets financial and political backing as they brainwash people, and then they take over.

 

[ICKE]

Nothing surprising considering that a month ago it was reported :

Greek Neo-Nazi Golden Dawn Party Threatens To Put Immigrants in 'Ovens'
Far Right Party Vowed To Turn Outsiders Into 'Soap'

http://forward.com/articles/172406/greek-neo-nazi-golden-dawn-party-threatens-to-put/#ixzz2Tm3I1YhW

But their popularity is surging regardless.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Why the fuck aren't people doing something already? Where're the Antifas?

 

[Tacitus_]

For what it's worth, I've read that it was some other MP shouting it to mock the Golden Dawn.

 

[Htown]

I wonder if it's safe for foreigners living there?

nope

they should bail the fuck out

For what it's worth, I've read that it was some other MP shouting it to mock the Golden Dawn.

probably true

 

[Funky Papa]

Why the fuck aren't people doing something already? Where're the Antifas?

Dude, Greek antifas have BOMBED Golden Dawn offices. They don't fuck around. Alas, it looks like the decadence of the traditional right wing parties is giving GD some momentum.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Greeks werent even considered white by the nazis

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Dude, Greek antifas have BOMBED Golden Dawn offices. They don't fuck around.

I know. Clearly not enough.

 

[ICKE]

The ANTIFA is hardly better, a bunch of violent thugs that offer no meaningful solutions to society.

 

[Kurtofan]

The ANTIFA is also scum, a bunch of violent thugs that offer no meaningful solutions to society.

Antifas have the courage to oppose fascist scums.

Opposing fascism is primordial, as fascism is never a good solution.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

The ANTIFA is hardly better, a bunch of violent thugs that offer no meaningful solutions to society.

Looks like someone doesn't know how to combat Fascism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7mRG88KPbA

 

[Antagon]

nope

they should bail the fuck out

And give these bastards what they want? Fuck that.

Scary thing is that the Golden Dawn seems to have a lot of support under cops. Some estimates say that over half the cops migght have voted for it during the last election. Hopefully thise estimates are wrong.

 

[ICKE]

Looks like someone doesn't know how to combat Fascism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7mRG88KPbA

It's really going well over there in Greece, the whole fighting against extremism goal. Trying to bomb buildings, a bunch of thugs fighting against one another.

Scary thing is that the Golden Dawn seems to have a lot of support under cops. Some estimates say that over half the cops migght have voted for it during the last election. Hopefully thise estimates are wrong.

The riot police has constantly had to fight it out with communists, anarchists and other lunatics even before the financial crisis begun. They also have to deal with the immigration problems on a daily basis and do not have a higher education so it's not exactly surprising that they are more prone to supporting fascism. As long as this whole Golden Dawn phenomenon does not spread inside the military......

 

[Tacitus_]

Somewhat confirmed that it was a leftist MP.

Originally assumed to have been uttered by far-right MPs, Parliament's minutes revealed that it was actually leftist Syriza MP Giorgos Pantzas who first cried 'Heil Hitler' in the House, not the far-right MPs.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_17/05/2013_499368

 

[Kurtofan]

Does it matter since they literally use Neo nazi symbolism? Why they are even allowed to participate in elections boggles the mind.

 

[Madness]

Antifas have the courage to oppose fascist scums.

Opposing fascism is primordial, as fascism is never a good solution.

You're right. Rather than deal with fascist ideology in a meaningful way, let's bomb their office and kill as many. That'll really stop them right?

Greece is scary, because it shows how quickly a democratic society falls. 9 years ago, they held the Athens games welcoming the world to Greece and now look.

What happens if the EU falls? Nationalism rises. They blame the collapse of their economies and savings on foreign countries and individuals. Minority populations are already a scapegoat. You can see the rise in nationalist parties all over from France, Spain, Hungary etc.

 

[Konka]

Does it matter since they literally use Neo nazi symbolism? Why they are even allowed to participate in elections boggles the mind.

You can't disallow a party from a free and open election because you don't like their stances.

 

[Four_Chamber]

The VICE piece was really well done. My favorite part was when one of the Golden Dawn spokespeople was asked "Is Golden Dawn fascist?" their response was "Fascism is an Italian word." Seriously? Greece is like Afghanistan-lite as far as I'm concerned.

 

[AppleSmack]

Dude, Greek antifas have BOMBED Golden Dawn offices. They don't fuck around. Alas, it looks like the decadence of the traditional right wing parties is giving GD some momentum.

They bombed offices? Then they are terrorists. Far worse than any neo nazi party could ever be.

 

[Kurtofan]

You can't disallow a party from a free and open election because you don't like their stances.

Yes, you can. By putting them into the spotlight you only increase their significance.

You're right. Rather than deal with fascist ideology in a meaningful way, let's bomb their office and kill as many. That'll really stop them right?

I'm not saying killing, but the point is to scare them so they don't organize, to avoid them spreading lies. It works in many cases, but if they get too big it might be too late.

Given how idiotic politicians are most of the time it's not a risk worth taking.

 

[vordhosbn]

Greece wanna get nuked or something? wtf

 

[SteveWinwood]

oh my

lots of stupid people all over the world

 

[CHEEZMO™]

You're right. Rather than deal with fascist ideology in a meaningful way, let's bomb their office and kill as many. That'll really stop them right?

Violence is a meaningful way of dealing with the Fascist problem. In fact, it's one of the very few successful ways.

Fascism relies on a projection and illusion of power and strength to gather support. It is inherently a violent ideology. Fascist groups must be shown to be weak and incapable of defending even themselves. Assuming that people will just go "Oh, those nasty right wing chaps saying bad things. Wont support them" is the most naive shit in the world.

Want to see where that attitude gets people? Look at fucking Greece! Look at the rise of ultra-Nationalism and Fascism across Europe. Look at the rise of the goddamn Nazi Party.

You can't disallow a party from a free and open election because you don't like their stances.

Yes you can. Absolutely.

No platform for Fascism.

I seriously can't believe this thread. "Think of the poor Nazis! Q-Q"

It's the middle-school debate club "tolerance" paradox applied to fucking NAZIS!

If this was the 1940s you'd have people calling the Partisan groups terrorists because they didn't go wave strongly-worded signs in front of the Reichskanzlei and instead shot people in the face like they deserved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ5461UHAbU

 

[speculawyer]

Can someone explain to be why people in Greece would want to be Nazis anyway? The Nazis invaded and occupied Greece.

What is the attraction of the Nazis? I don't get it.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Can someone explain to be why people in Greece would want to be Nazis anyway? The Nazis invaded and occupied Greece.

What is the attraction of the Nazis? I don't get it.

Stupid younger people who don't follow history.

 

[gutter_trash]

this is full of irony, especially considering German occupation during WW2

why would a Greek national ever do a hand gesture celebrating the leader of an enemy force that occupied your country?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Can someone explain to be why people in Greece would want to be Nazis anyway? The Nazis invaded and occupied Greece.

What is the attraction of the Nazis? I don't get it.

Scapegoating. "All our problems are the fault of immigrants/leftists/poor people/minorities/!" etc.

Add in that Fascists are often the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet (and often paranoid to boot) and you got a lot of bullshit in your hands.

 

[Funky Papa]

Stupid younger people who don't follow history.

Old people too.

And lots of policemen.

Let's be clear: joining the police is an attractive proposition for people with authoritarian tendencies and given Greece's recent history, you can bet your ass there were a number of high ranking officials with fascist leanings.

Edit: For what is worth, anarchists and far left militants were Greece's violent shitheads of choice before Golden Dawn became a problem. The thing is, those people weren't as interested in seizing power as in disrupting it.

 

[Konka]

Violence is a meaningful way of dealing with the Fascist problem. In fact, it's one of the very few successful ways.

Fascism relies on a projection and illusion of power and strength to gather support. It is inherently a violent ideology. Fascist groups must be shown to be weak and incapable of defending even themselves. Assuming that people will just go "Oh, those nasty right wing chaps saying bad things. Wont support them" is the most naive shit in the world.

Want to see where that attitude gets people? Look at fucking Greece! Look at the rise of ultra-Nationalism and Fascism across Europe. Look at the rise of the goddamn Nazi Party.



Yes you can. Absolutely.

No platform for Fascism.

I seriously can't believe this thread. "Think of the poor Nazis! Q-Q"

It's the middle-school debate club "tolerance" paradox applied to fucking NAZIS!

If this was the 1940s you'd have people calling the Partisan groups terrorists because they didn't go wave strongly-worded signs in front of the Reichskanzlei and instead shot people in the face like they deserved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ5461UHAbU

Sounds like a violation of freedom of speech to me...

 

[FoxSpirit]

Really, Hitler calls? Shucks, all those dirty greeks are not even Aryan.

 

[Funky Papa]

Sounds like a violation of freedom of speech to me...

Golden Dawn is doing a whole lot more than talking.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Old people too.

I guess I meant "younger" more as "people who don't remember" but considering there are probably aren't too many people who were even alive during the occupation any more...

Saying something like that made a lot more sense a long time ago I guess.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Sounds like a violation of freedom of speech to me...

Bummer. Fascist "speech" has no place in society.

Oi!
A child is burnt to death
By nazis on the street
A man is stabbed and scarred for life
Yet you say they've a right to put their views

What is this liberal rubbish?
Are you some kind of mug?
Don't talk to me of "free speech"
For murdering fascist thugs

We remember Mosley
And how Cable Street folk fought him
When we see the fash
We let the boots do the talking

Some think they'll be halted
By spouting a lot of hot air
Others think you can stop them
By waving a yellow lollipop in the air

But we remember Mosley
And how Cable Street folk fought him
When we see the fash
We let the boots do the talking

Punks and sabs and travellers
And hippies and ravers too
They'd build another Auschwitz
This time for me and you

But we ain't gonna take this
From some bonehead in the "master race"
He won't be mastering anything
With a vegan steelie in his face!

 

[JDSN]

Ironically praising Hitler is a line that even hipsters arent willing to cross.

 

[Kurtofan]

Sounds like a violation of freedom of speech to me...

If fascists seize power there won't be any free speech left to violate.

 

[Konka]

Bummer. Fascist "speech" has no place in society.

If fascists seize power there won't be any free speech left to violate.

Then don't vote for them.

 

[Madness]

Can someone explain to be why people in Greece would want to be Nazis anyway? The Nazis invaded and occupied Greece.

What is the attraction of the Nazis? I don't get it.

What Golden Dawn wants is a Greece free of non-ethnic Greeks, no minorities, and all foreigners out. They also want the EU to stop interfering in their affairs. It's hypocrisy. Welcome foreigners and EU investment when it suited you, but when you shit the bed, scapegoat them as the problem.

 

[Kurtofan]

Slippery slope argument doesn't since it's easy to distinguish between fascist and non-fascist speech.

If non-fascist speech is banned then it probably means fascists are in power.

 

[i-Lo]

It'll be interesting where this leads to in the coming years. I wonder how much more power will this political party be imbued with. Whatever the result, especially if things go south, it'll perhaps be a reminder as to why turning to fascism is always a terrible idea.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Then don't vote for them.

I don't think you understand fascism.

 

[Konka]

Slippery slope argument doesn't since it's easy to distinguish between fascist and non-fascist speech.

If non-fascist speech is banned then it probably means fascists are in power.

So you are saying that it is completely black and white.

I don't think you understand fascism.

Of course I do. The is a USA Nazi party they are irrelevant because nobody votes for them. The KKK is allowed to say whatever they want and again have no power.

Golden Dawn got legitimate support by greeks. They are giving them power and that is what they want. Golden Dawn didn't force people to vote for them.

 

[Funky Papa]

Again, Golden Dawn is doing much more than talking. They are known for rounding inmigrants (or just people who dislike) and beat the shit out of them. They've extorted people. They've threatened to kill people. They've crossed all the lines, yet there they are.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Hey guys lets put gassing the jews to a vote it's only fair. What do you mean no? That's anti-democratic. What are you - some kind of Nazi?

 

[Konka]

Again, Golden Dawn is doing much more than talking. They are known for rounding inmigrants (or just people who dislike) and beat the shit out of them. They've extorted people. They've threatened to kill people. They've crossed all the lines, yet there they are.

And you can punish those actions but you can't ban speech.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Golden Dawn got legitimate support by greeks. They are giving them power and that is what they want. Golden Dawn didn't force people to vote for them.

It worked for Germany, I guess!