Clinton has pneumonia

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Clockwork5 said:
Clinton is a fighter. I'm sure her top priority was to get a short photo opportunity of her walking to her car and hugging a child. She knows the damage this could do to her campaign.

Forgive me if I don't find that indicative of her current health when she was unable to stand on her own two feet moments before. And yes, though rare, healthy people can faint but Ms. Clinton is not currently healthy. She has pneumonia. A serious illness for someone of her age.
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Unless it's a mild case... that exists and seems to be more the case here than this idea that she's near death or retirement
 
excelsiorlef said:
Unless it's a mild case... that exists and seems to be more the case here than this idea that she's near death or retirement
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Due to her age she should still rest. People aren't criticising by saying this. It's the sensible thing to do. Better to come back fighting than push yourself and turn a mild case into something worse.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
If someone could somehow guarantee it wouldn't result in a logistical disaster that ends up letting Trump win I wouldn't be opposed to it but I really don't think Sanders people have thought this through.
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Fuck that. He lost, she's not dying.

Even talking about it is ridiculous.

Kathian said:
Due to her age she should still rest. People aren't criticising by saying this. It's the sensible thing to do. Better to come back fighting than push yourself and turn a mild case into something worse.
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Which is now exactly what she's doing.

Sorry people are acting like her well being is in serious jeopardy, as if every case of pneumonia is a horror show.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Given the political season, I've heard of people fainting at rallies time and time again. Due to heat, the sun, their lack of water intake.

Is this really news to you?
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It was 80degrees and why would you not keep up your water intake? (cue Rubio waterbottle gif)

And those people aren't running for POTUS, so naturally this gets more attention.
 
I am sure Hillary Clinton is touched at how very concerned, very concerned indeed, some people seem to be. Very concerned about her health and wellness. Very concerned. I am sure it is bolstering her spirits, this very concern.

I know it warms my cockles.
 
Clockwork5 said:
Clinton is a fighter. I'm sure her top priority was to get a short photo opportunity of her walking to her car and hugging a child. She knows the damage this could do to her campaign.

Forgive me if I don't find that indicative of her current health when she was unable to stand on her own two feet moments before. And yes, though rare, healthy people can faint but Ms. Clinton is not currently healthy. She has pneumonia. A serious illness for someone of her age.
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the key word in this post is Currently

you are correct that she is not Currently healthy because she has pneumonia

this is quite different from the arguments that hillary is unfit to be president because she is slowly wasting away due to long term, systemic failures and pre-existing conditions

she caught an illness as humans are wont to do, and is now Currently experiencing the state of being we call "sick"

i fail to see how hillary being Currently sick supports the argument that she isn't fit to be president
 
I find it hilarious that such a cheap dirty tactic of questioning your oponents health turned out to have a base of truth in it.

I do hope she recovers quickly though. Pneumonia isn't a light flew.
 
Sianos said:
yes, and we're going to break it down a bit more so you can understand a bit better

a symptom of pneumonia is dehydration and flu-like symptoms

dehydration makes a person more susceptible to heat exhaustion

heat exhaustion causes faintness, dizziness, and fatigue

thus "losing conscious and being dragged into a van while completely limp", or as a more didactic person would say "faintness" is a symptom of a mild case of pneumonia - because a mild case of pneumonia is still a relatively severe acute illness, that much you are correct on

the point where the goal posts are being moved is this transition from claiming she has a long-term health condition that indicates she is unfit to be president to claiming that she got sick with an unfortunate acute ailment

and if we take note of this shift, the argument is now "hillary clinton catching pneumonia - and continuing to campaign through it - demonstrates that she isn't physically fit to be president"

this strikes me as an absurd argument to make, although certainly not the most absurd i've heard
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I honestly don't know what you are talking about with these goal posts. I don't recall ever saying Ms Clinton was chronically ill. I certainly never said her health is in some way too poor to allow her to serve as president.

Some are diminishing the seriousness of pneumonia in an elderly person pushed to the brink by a presidential campaign, one of the most difficult processes anyone can endure. Meanwhile, I am saying realistically this could be serious as was evidenced by today's incident.
 
Clockwork5 said:
Clinton is a fighter. I'm sure her top priority was to get a short photo opportunity of her walking to her car and hugging a child. She knows the damage this could do to her campaign.

Forgive me if I don't find that indicative of her current health when she was unable to stand on her own two feet moments before. And yes, though rare, healthy people can faint but Ms. Clinton is not currently healthy. She has pneumonia. A serious illness for someone of her age.
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But the point is that Hillary is clearly not battling an extremely serious form of pneumonia. If she had been, she wouldn't have even been able to do that much.

To drive the point further home, this was Hillary's schedule this weekend:
S7hpSEC.png


And this was before anybody knew she was sick outside of a cough (that even her doctor verified was due to allergies).

I'm not trying to argue that pneumonia isn't a potentially serious ailment. But from what we have seen from Hillary this weekend:

Is she dying? Likely not.
Is this disqualifying? No.
Is this a serious case of pneumonia? Most signs point to no.
Are there signs of a more serious ailment her doctor isn't disclosing? No. This is all par for the course for pneumonia.
 
royalan said:
To drive the point further home, this was Hillary's schedule this weekend:
S7hpSEC.png


And this was before anybody knew she was sick outside of a cough (that even her doctor verified was due to allergies).
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Wasn't that before she fainted? If so that doesn't prove your point of it not being serious at all, because her continuing on might have been what added up to the fainting in the end.
 
Dalibor68 said:
Wasn't that before she fainted? If so that doesn't prove your point of it not being serious at all, because her continuing on might have been what added up to the fainting in the end.
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Dehydration and overheating are still likely reasons why she fainted...

And she was up and atom 2 hours later looking pretty decent sooooo....
 
Clockwork5 said:
I honestly don't know what you are talking about with these goal posts. I don't recall ever saying Ms Clinton was chronically ill. I certainly never said her health is in some way too poor to allow her to serve as president.

Some are diminishing the seriousness of pneumonia in an elderly person pushed to the brink by a presidential campaign, one of the most difficult processes anyone can endure. Meanwhile, I am saying realistically this could be serious as was evidenced by today's incident.
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wait i think we're arguing past each other

pneumonia of any kind is serious, i agree! and hillary really should take better care of herself, maybe turn down the dial a couple of notches when she's ill

i've had terrible bouts of bronchitis that last for months and months that turn me into a sentient mass of phlegm, i know how miserable it can be

but the "hillary's health" scandal was not over whether or not she came down with an acute respiratory ailment - the angle has been that she is unfit to be president because of an undisclosed mystery health ailment that is causing her to slowly wilt and wither away

it is not as much that people are downplaying pneumonia, as much as they are saying "so hillary exhibited the symptoms of an acute respiratory infection, and it turned out she was sick with an acute respiratory infection - how shocking"
 
Dalibor68 said:
Wasn't that before she fainted? If so that doesn't prove your point of it not being serious at all, because her continuing on might have been what added up to the fainting in the end.
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Yes, this was before she fainted. No, it doesn't indicate that she's battling a serious form of pneumonia. As someone who has had a serious form of pneumonia and is less than half Hillary's age, if she were battling a serious form of pneumonia she likely wouldn't have been able to do that much. I'm a healthy male and was in my mid-twenties when I had a serious case of pneumonia. I could barely get out of bed to piss.

Even people who aren't sick can faint. Fainting is not often a sign of a serious health condition. But, combined with a mild case of pneumonia, it IS a sign that Hillary needs to dial back her schedule and relax more for a few days. You know, like a human.
 
eyeball_kid said:
My grandfather has Parkinson's. I haven't seen anything from Hillary's behavior that would suggest she has it. Actually, I'd say I've seen more things from Bill that remind me of when my grandfather was in the early stages, but that doesn't mean anything because I'm not a trained medical professional, and neither are these conspiracy people trying to pin diseases on her.

I think for most people who aren't Hillary supporters right now, it's not so much about her health as it is about the trust issue that's been dogging her for a long time. They say she has a cough, then it's just hot weather, then finally it's something else. They're trying to contain the story and doing more damage, instead of just being up front. Every time that happens, the trust meter goes down again.

My feeling is this strategy is coming directly from HRC. She's been making sure there's no ammunition loaded in the guns pointed at her for so many years that it's her only mode of operation. Now that there's more scrutiny on her, when locking it down goes wrong, the damage is worse than if she'd just owned the real story.
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I think you're right. It does seem like nothing theyve said in their press releases are strictly untrue, they're just misleading about the true nature of what's going on (assuming she was diagnosed before about 8 hours ago, or whenever they eventually said she had pneumonia). If she wants people to actually trust her press releases, I think she needs to start using them to say things which aren't just *technically* true.
 
Brisal73 said:
She doesn't have pneumonia.
They, aka the media should never be trusted. They originally said the cause was overheating.
Then the video came out.
Then they changed the narrative that it was pneumonia.
If it was pneumonia, why is she meeting with a little girl when leaves her daughter's apartment.

She has Parkinson's. They tried to hide it, by calling her health issues a conspiracy.
Now they are forced to report what happened because of the video.

Just now CNN started to blame Trump for not wishing her the best.

Bottom line stop trusting the mainstream media.
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There is just so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. I hope you found it out yourself.
 
Everybody gets sick. Only way to not get sick is to lock yourself up in a clean room and never leave. But I'm sure there are sicknesses for that situation too.

Get well soon, this doesn't change my opinion of you.
 
enzo_gt said:
Super, super bad look in the current political climate. Don't care how fit she is in actuality or if her supporters think she's fit to serve, the timing on this could not be worse. Can't imagine pneumonia at that age is fun either.
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Yep.

It's her election to lose, and the timing of this makes everything that much more difficult for her.
 
Sianos said:
wait i think we're arguing past each other

pneumonia of any kind is serious, i agree! and hillary really should take better care of herself, maybe turn down the dial a couple of notches when she's ill

i've had terrible bouts of bronchitis that last for months and months that turn me into a sentient mass of phlegm, i know how miserable it can be

but the "hillary's health" scandal was not over whether or not she came down with an acute respiratory ailment - the angle has been that she is unfit to be president because of an undisclosed mystery health ailment that is causing her to slowly wilt and wither away

it is not as much that people are downplaying pneumonia, as much as they are saying "so hillary exhibited the symptoms of an acute respiratory infection, and it turned out she was sick with an acute respiratory infection - how shocking"
Click to expand...
The bolded doesn't seem the littlest bit hypocritical? Especially since nobody here is even bringing up the death bed conspiracy stuff.

I saw the video, then saw the statement that she has pneumonia and realized this could be serious, I didn't think to myself "oh of course she fainted, she has walking pneumonia"

Here are the things I believe to be true.

Hillary Clinton is 68 years old and has pneumonia.

Pneumonia is a serious condition for someone of her age.

This is compounded by the fact that she has been pushed to exhaustion during her illness due to her campaign schedule.

This was visibly apparent from her episode today.

If you are going to take issue with what I say stick to what I say. Don't bring up some conspiracy bullshit and try to paint me in a corner.
 
CyclopsRock said:
I think you're right. It does seem like nothing theyve said in their press releases are strictly untrue, they're just misleading about the true nature of what's going on (assuming she was diagnosed before about 8 hours ago, or whenever they eventually said she had pneumonia). If she wants people to actually trust her press releases, I think she needs to start using them to say things which aren't just *technically* true.
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Ugh, I know I'm coming off as the ultimate apologist here, but there's nothing untrue or even misleading about the press release if you follow the progression of things.

Important point: Hillary had the cough before she had pneumonia. Hillary's been dealing with this cough on and off for a while now, and it IS because of her allergies. The campaign was completely honest about that.

It is Hillary's allergy-related cough that caused the pneumonia that she was diagnosed with just this Friday.

We can argue about whether or not Hillary should have announced she had pneumonia when she was diagnosed, but they weren't lying about the cough being related to allergies, because for a time that's really all it was.
 
Jack The Nipper said:
It's simple.

If I say

I care the American people

But then I point to people I don't like

Trump, get her out of here. Get him out

Hillary she is just a racist blah blah

Then I can't take this first line of caring the American people seriously.

They care themselves and what they get, that's all.

To be fair this is how most people are, can say and do many things but in deeo reality of you see it straight it's all be and not accurate at all.

I have spent too much time letting people get or have what they want thinking of the persons view and feeling at my expense most of the time. I'm still ok with it cause I constantly consider how they feel
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...

What
 
Brisal73 said:
She doesn't have pneumonia.
They, aka the media should never be trusted. They originally said the cause was overheating.
Then the video came out.
Then they changed the narrative that it was pneumonia.
If it was pneumonia, why is she meeting with a little girl when leaves her daughter's apartment.

She has Parkinson's. They tried to hide it, by calling her health issues a conspiracy.
Now they are forced to report what happened because of the video.

Just now CNN started to blame Trump for not wishing her the best.

Bottom line stop trusting the mainstream media.
Click to expand...

So, what you are saying is that you have no idea what Parkinson's disease is. Gotcha.
 
Clockwork5 said:
The bolded doesn't seem the littlest bit hypocritical? Especially since nobody here is even bringing up the death bed conspiracy stuff.

I saw the video, then saw the statement that she has pneumonia and realized this could be serious, I didn't think to myself "oh of course she fainted, she has walking pneumonia"

Here are the things I believe to be true.

Hillary Clinton is 68 years old and has pneumonia.

Pneumonia is a serious condition for someone of her age.

This is compounded by the fact that she has been pushed to exhaustion during her illness due to her campaign schedule.

This was visibly apparent from her episode today.

If you are going to take issue with what I say stick to what I say. Don't bring up some conspiracy bullshit and try to paint me in a corner.
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only a couple of people are bringing up that nonsense now because a formal diagnosis was released - the previous thread, now locked, was full of a quite a lot of over-reactive nonsense

and i'm not the one who brought up conspiracy bullshit

It's not a conspiracy anymore. This elderly woman has pneumonia, a serious health condition for anyone.
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Hey guys. She is healthy. The republicans are making it up. It's a conspiracy. When will this stop? It's sexist. Etc.
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maybe you did not have the context when you said this, but "the conspiracy" was never that "oh hillary caught a nasty acute respiratory illness, she needs to get some bed rest or else she might not be able to give it her all!"

and the republicans were certainly not saying that

regardless of whether you are walking this back or this was a misunderstanding of context, i am glad you are apparently not trying to argue that a pneumonia diagnosis disqualifies someone from running for president
 
royalan said:
Ugh, I know I'm coming off as the ultimate apologist here, but there's nothing untrue or even misleading about the press release if you follow the progression of things.

Important point: Hillary had the cough before she had pneumonia. Hillary's been dealing with this cough on and off for a while now, and it IS because of her allergies. The campaign was completely honest about that.

It is Hillary's allergy-related cough that caused the pneumonia that she was diagnosed with just this Friday.

We can argue about whether or not Hillary should have announced she had pneumonia when she was diagnosed, but they weren't lying about the cough being related to allergies, because for a time that's really all it was.
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Great! But a) I specifically said that they *weren't* lying, they just being misleading and b) this doesn't change the fact that they've now put out three (is it three?) press releases with gradually more significant symptoms. They said she felt overheated and wanted a break, *then* a video comes out showing hey barely conscious and unable to stand up and they finally tell the truth. Again, none of what they did say was untrue, but it's not hard to see how their unwillingness to disclose the truth had lead to them looking like they're in full on damage control only-told-the-truth-because-you-got-caught mode. So next time they release a press note saying "Hilary has a cough and won't be doing this interview", everyone's going to be waiting for the actual truth to come out a few days later.
 
As somebody who's not American I'm curious, how often does this sort of thing happen? Considering the frankly insane schedule presidential candidates go through I'm surprised you don't hear of them getting sick more often.
 
I've been out for most of the day so I haven't been keeping up, and I need this clarified for a discussion I'm having IRL right now:

Did the campaign lie about the reason for the episode being heatstroke, because they later said, oh it's actually pneumonia?

or

Was it both?
 
You want a conspiracy?

Here's one.

What are the odds that, after all that GOP propaganda against her health, Clinton actually does get sick? Huh?

I bet it's a GOP plot to infect her and take her out via weaponized viruses. Yeah!

I don't actually think that, but since we're being silly...
 
Rentahamster said:
I've been out for most of the day so I haven't been keeping up, and I need this clarified for a discussion I'm having IRL right now:

Did the campaign lie about the reason for the episode being heatstroke, because they later said, oh it's actually pneumonia?

or

Was it both?
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I think pneumonia makes you more likely to succumb to things like heat, so I don't think they were literally lying. That said, the way they described her state was - again, without lying - tremendously sympathetic to the point of being misleading imo.
 
Rentahamster said:
I've been out for most of the day so I haven't been keeping up, and I need this clarified for a discussion I'm having IRL right now:

Did the campaign lie about the reason for the episode being heatstroke, because they later said, oh it's actually pneumonia?

or

Was it both?
Click to expand...

They didn't say "heatstroke", though. They said she was "overheated", which is so vague it could mean anything.
 
CyclopsRock said:
I think pneumonia makes you more likely to succumb to things like heat, so I don't think they were literally lying. That said, the way they described her state was - again, without lying - tremendously sympathetic to the point of being misleading imo.
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Henkka said:
They didn't say "heatstroke", though. They said she was "overheated", which is so vague it could mean anything.
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Oh, right the word was "overheated", yes. OK, it had a lot of leeway.
 
Rentahamster said:
I've been out for most of the day so I haven't been keeping up, and I need this clarified for a discussion I'm having IRL right now:

Did the campaign lie about the reason for the episode being heatstroke, because they later said, oh it's actually pneumonia?

or

Was it both?
Click to expand...

It's all connected. In the same way that your runny nose and you having a cold is not unrelated.
 
shinra-bansho said:
I am sure Hillary Clinton is touched at how very concerned, very concerned indeed, some people seem to be. Very concerned about her health and wellness. Very concerned. I am sure it is bolstering her spirits, this very concern.

I know it warms my cockles.
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But are you telling the truth? Because, ya know, you should tell the truth as a truth teller. Everyone should tell the truth; me, especially because-- I'm a truth teller. My health is also perfect, as a truth-teller. My doctor is also a truth-teller so you should listen to us truth-tellers.
 
eyeball_kid said:
My grandfather has Parkinson's. I haven't seen anything from Hillary's behavior that would suggest she has it. Actually, I'd say I've seen more things from Bill that remind me of when my grandfather was in the early stages, but that doesn't mean anything because I'm not a trained medical professional, and neither are these conspiracy people trying to pin diseases on her.

I think for most people who aren't Hillary supporters right now, it's not so much about her health as it is about the trust issue that's been dogging her for a long time. They say she has a cough, then it's just hot weather, then finally it's something else. They're trying to contain the story and doing more damage, instead of just being up front. Every time that happens, the trust meter goes down again.

My feeling is this strategy is coming directly from HRC. She's been making sure there's no ammunition loaded in the guns pointed at her for so many years that it's her only mode of operation. Now that there's more scrutiny on her, when locking it down goes wrong, the damage is worse than if she'd just owned the real story.
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This is what it's about. Clintonis trust issues are the worst part of her image and this just makes it worse
 
Just out of curiosity, what would happen if she were to die from this? I don't think Trump would win automatically, but would the democrats have to pull out a new candidate?
 
KarneeKarnay said:
Just out of curiosity, what would happen if she were to die from this? I don't think Trump would win automatically, but would the democrats have to pull out a new candidate?
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If the West Wing has taught me anything, it's that the election would continue between Clinton and Trump. If Clinton won, despite being dead, the victory would immediately hand to Kaine.
 
I've had pneumonia three times in my life, possibly more, but diagnosed three times. I'm in my forties.

It's a big deal in that each time I was debilitated. Walking around though, trying to do too much, yes. Stretching myself too far, not listening to my body, dealing with obligations for many days too long before finally convalescing.

I'm still standing, and in better health than I've been in at least 20 years.
 
Sianos said:
it is not as much that people are downplaying pneumonia, as much as they are saying "so hillary exhibited the symptoms of an acute respiratory infection, and it turned out she was sick with an acute respiratory infection - how shocking"
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If you read through the threads while information was slowly trickled out, it seems it was quite shocking. 24 hours ago, I'm guessing 95% of supporters would have claimed it was ridiculous she had pneumonia.
 
CyclopsRock said:
Great! But a) I specifically said that they *weren't* lying, they just being misleading and b) this doesn't change the fact that they've now put out three (is it three?) press releases with gradually more significant symptoms. They said she felt overheated and wanted a break, *then* a video comes out showing hey barely conscious and unable to stand up and they finally tell the truth. Again, none of what they did say was untrue, but it's not hard to see how their unwillingness to disclose the truth had lead to them looking like they're in full on damage control only-told-the-truth-because-you-got-caught mode. So next time they release a press note saying "Hilary has a cough and won't be doing this interview", everyone's going to be waiting for the actual truth to come out a few days later.
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Yeah, this was the more troubling thing that I think deserves more recognition. Not her health, which likely will be okay given the best health care known to humans, but the trickle truth. I get she deserves some privacy, and Trump is even worse in this regard, but it's not especially inspiring.

edit: woops double post. Sorry thread was moving faster earlier, I assumed someone else would post in between.
 
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