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[Theonik]

They could not prove intent because her lackeys destroyed thousands of "personal" emails, effectively crippling the FBI. Leave it to Clinton supporters to come up with every excuse they can for their corrupt Prima Donna. Thanks to her shady shit, we now have Trump. Thanks to her campaign telling their media lapdogs to prop up Trump as her "Pied Piper" candidate, we now have Trump.

The Clintons need to go back into the self-dealing hole they just came out of.

Erm, the whole investigation was on potential leaking of classified information not corruption. In the first place, they found no evidence of wrongdoing taking place which is why the investigation got shut. I guess it's good having a legal system?

Not just a rapist. A potential pedophile rapist who was a regular on Epstein's Lolita Express. But hey, according to GAF he would have been a mighty fine First Ladyman.

Ignoring the ridiculousness of these accusations. Since when is Hillary Bill?

 

[TestOfTide]

They could not prove intent because her lackeys destroyed thousands of "personal" emails, effectively crippling the FBI.

THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT WITH YOUR RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY NONSENSE.

Leave it to Clinton supporters to come up with every excuse they can for their corrupt Prima Donna. Thanks to her shady shit, we now have Trump. Thanks to her campaign telling their media lapdogs to prop up Trump as her "Pied Piper" candidate, we now have Trump.

No we have Trump because of FAKE progressives like you that care more about attacking democrats than actually opposing Trump. Every political thread you have been in you either shit on democrats or defend Trump supporters as "not racist".

The Clintons need to go back into the self-dealing hole they just came out of.

And you conspiracy theorists need to go back to 4chan where you came from.

Isn't there more evidence that Bill Clinton is a rapist than Donald Trump is a racist bigot?

First off I'm pretty sure that Trump has more SA accusers than Bill Clinton.

Second, Bill Clinton isn't caught on tape bragging about sexual assault, whereas Trump is caught on tape bragging about both his bigotry and sexual assault.

Not that ridiculous when you see these daily Trump conspiracy theories. It means she supports him over the women.

Which Trump conspiracies? You mean the Russia stuff that our IC has found numerous pieces of evidence towards?

Meanwhile you and El_Tigure are grabbing onto any Clinton based conspiracy you two can think of.

Bernie lost the primaries? "It's the DNC and Hillary conspiring"
FBI chooses to not recommend charges against Hillary? "Well Hillary and her cronies clearly covered up everything"
Bernie says socially tone deaf shit like he has a habit of doing? "Well it's clearly a smear campaign by the corporate Dems"
Trump is called out for his bigotry? "Well Democrat Bill Clinton is clearly worse"

 

[bomb]

Ignoring the ridiculousness of these accusations. Since when is Hillary Bill?

Not that ridiculous when you see these daily Trump conspiracy theories. It means she supports him over the women.

 

[KingV]

She's right but that wouldn't have been a problem if her campaign was not bad.

That's where I'm at too. Technically, she is correct, but if she had run a better campaign she probably could have won anyway.

Edit: also agree she has a hand in giving us Trump. She went out of her way to prop him up during the primaries.

 

[O.v.e.rlord]

THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT WITH YOUR RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY NONSENSE."

Nope. That part be true. She had about 12 devices and thousands of emails destroyed. All this was public information during the congressional hearings.

 

[TestOfTide]

She lost because she was a shit candidate. Period.

This Comey, Russia, and by extension, 3rd party, and stupid, racists Americans (ok, so maybe the last one is true) denial is just dumb.

She needs to get over it and accept the reality that she's not a very good candidate. Only SHE could lose to Trump.

Thanks for showing you didn't read the article in the OP (where she explicitly said it was her own fault).

Hillary isn't literally the ONLY reason Trump won.

Nope. That part be true. She had about 12 devices and thousands of emails destroyed. All this was public information during the congressional hearings.

The poster I was responding to claimed that she only didn't get prosecuted because of deliberate obstruction of justice, which the FBI investigation did NOT find. The FBI investigation found evidence after evidence that the emails thing was the result of Hillary being bad with technology.

 

[Dehnus]

Analysis suggests that is an entirely defensible position to take.

I"m no fan of Clinton, but seeing how close the race was in some states? I really can't argue with her on this point.

PS: I think Trump is a moron and and a NAZI enabler. So Clinton over Trump.

 

[ElFly]

Thanks for showing you didn't read the article in the OP (where she explicitly said it was her own fault).

Hillary isn't literally the ONLY reason Trump won.

but it is the main reason

russian hackers and comey were just the last, very ultra light straw that broke the poor camel's back

concentrating on russia and comey, things that the democratic party cannot change, serves no one. Hillary should be addressing the real problems, not just saying 'yeah we had some problems in the campaign' and then turning around and whining about stuff she cannot do nothing about

 

[YuriLowell]

Hillary, you lost because Trump tapped into the angry lower middle-class white population, and you didn't.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Comey testifying to the senate in public in an hour????

 

[michaelius]

Anytime I see someone say the media was behind Clinton I wonder if I'm in an alternate dimension

Even in Europe we heard about media title "x" endorsing Clinton against Trump regularly.

 

[Dice//]

Hillary, you lost because Trump tapped into the angry lower middle-class white population, and you didn't.

Amazing how people would vote against their best interests because some orange clown made passionate speeches about bringing shit jobs back.

 

[TestOfTide]

but it is the main reason

russian hackers and comey were just the last, very ultra light straw that broke the poor camel's back

Ultra light straw? Bullshit. Wikileaks and Russia were practically working overtime helping Donald Trump.

concentrating on russia and comey, things that the democratic party cannot change, serves no one. Hillary should be addressing the real problems, not just saying 'yeah we had some problems in the campaign' and then turning around and whining about stuff she cannot do nothing about

Focusing on the Russia Stuff isn't worthless because something NEEDS to be done to combat the fake news tactics that Russia employs on social media. This isn't just about Trump vs Hillary. This is about stopping Russia's ability to spread bullshit through social media.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Ultra light straw? Bullshit. Wikileaks and Russia were practically working overtime helping Donald Trump.



Focusing on the Russia Stuff isn't worthless because something NEEDS to be done to combat the fake news tactics that Russia employs on social media. This isn't just about Trump vs Hillary. This is about stopping Russia's ability to spread bullshit through social media.

It's a self inflicted wound. America votes for an anti-education party for decades... and here we are!

 

[jmdajr]

So Comey is going to get grilled AGAIN today.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

So Comey is going to get grilled AGAIN today.

It's about campaign ties as well. He maybe authorized to give some more information!

 

[The Greek Freak]

I'm ok with using the term "Russian interference" as long as either "Russian" or "interference" is put in quotes.

It's important to point out in one way or another that what the Russians pulled was a propaganda effort against Hillary. It wasn't Russia literally rigging the vote tally like the media and many Dems have led a considerable portion of their base to believe by using that term or the now iconic "Hacking of our election" line.

The damage is done now, I think. So it really doesn't matter so much anymore. If I remember correctly, they got over 50% of Dems to believe that the vote tally was rigged according to this one poll.

I really wish people would properly call it interference.

Shortly after the election I saw so many morons who legit think Russia hacked voting machines and Hilary could still be pres.

 

[Fail State]

The dems chose the one person that could lose to Trump. And the Republicans chose the one person that could lose to Hillary. Anyone that called the result of the election with any certainty before it happened was a fool.

It's about campaign ties as well. He maybe authorized to give some more information!

It's going to be more about Senator reactions/questions than anything Comey says, because he won't be saying much.

 

[The Flop]

And if the Super Bowl ended after the 3rd Quarter the Falcons would have won...

 

[TestOfTide]

I really wish people would properly call it interference.

Shortly after the election I saw so many morons who legit think Russia hacked voting machines and Hilary could still be pres.

I knew that the "Russia hacked the voting machines" allegations were bullshit as soon as Jill Fucking Stein started feeding that theory.

 

[shamanick]

Hillary, you lost because Trump tapped into the angry lower middle-class white population, and you didn't.

Stop blaming poor people.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

 

[Oni Jazar]

Can't we (dems) just all get along? The endless bickering and shit flinging is way past it's point of usefulness. This divisiveness is killing us. We got to where we are today for a ton of reasons, some of which is our own fault and I think everyone accepts that. Hillary won't run for 2020 so really what she has to say should mean very little at this point.

 

[Psychoward]

Isn't there more evidence that Bill Clinton is a rapist than Donald Trump is a racist bigot?

Trump proves he's a racist bigot like everyday so, no?

 

[HighResTomato]

How long before American politicians are going to stop this "It was the Russians!" excuse. Own up to your shit.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

And she still refuses to take responsibility for her actions.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Erm, the whole investigation was on potential leaking of classified information not corruption. In the first place, they found no evidence of wrongdoing taking place which is why the investigation got shut. I guess it's good having a legal system?

Ahem...

But over Mr. Comey’s objections, the Justice Department let Mr. Petraeus plead guilty in April 2015 to a misdemeanor count of mishandling classified information. Charging Mrs. Clinton with the same crime, without evidence of intent, would be difficult.


One nagging issue was that Mrs. Clinton had deleted an unknown number of emails from her early months at the State Department — before she installed the home server. Agents believed that those emails, sent from a BlackBerry account, might be their best hope of assessing Mrs. Clinton’s intentions when she moved to the server. If only they could find them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/us/politics/james-comey-election.html?_r=1&mtrref=undefined

This plus Loretta Lynch cozying up with Bill Clinton to stonewall the investigation did not help matters...

No we have Trump because of FAKE progressives like you that care more about attacking democrats than actually opposing Trump. Every political thread you have been in you either shit on democrats or defend Trump supporters as "not racist".

I will continue to shit on tone deaf and shortsighted Democrats that seemed to have had no clue that things were not going well for the country outside of their NY/SF/Seattle/Silicon Valley thriving bubbles, and DEFINITELY don't appear to have a clue on how to win the country back. They went ahead and nominated a corrupt Prima Donna who wore status quo on her forehead, even if Democrats under 45, independents, and young people were screaming for Bernie. They handed us Trump just as much as Comey or Russia is being accused of doing so.

Many continue to be tone deaf, but at least now we have leaders like Elizabeth Warren jumping on board in addressing the crushing wealth inequality that is collapsing our country from within (can't blame that on Russia). This is the winning anti-status quo message that wins over "real Americans" across all races.

First off I'm pretty sure that Trump has more SA accusers than Bill Clinton.

Second, Bill Clinton isn't caught on tape bragging about sexual assault, whereas Trump is caught on tape bragging about both his bigotry and sexual assault.

I hope Democrats realize by now that so much shit did not stick to Trump because the Clintons cancelled out many of the accusations (and yes... Bill and Hillary were a package deal no matter what). Sexual assault accusations? they cancelled each other out. Surrounding themselves with rich elites? they cancelled each other out. Being erratic or a global danger to peace? Henry Kissinger Clinton made sure she messed up enough countries to cancel each other out. Racism? Superpredators Clinton and Mass Incarceration of Blacks Bill did not help themselves there much.

The end result? both candidates had shit negative ratings on par with each other, but Democrats were too tone deaf to notice. They both had dishonesty ratings that were on par, but Democrats were too tone deaf to notice. The country is slowly collapsing from extreme levels of wealth inequality (leading to all kinds of anxieties across demographics), but Democrats were too tone deaf to notice. Now we have Trump, but hopefully Democrats won't be tone deaf in the 2018 & 2020 campaigns.

 

[tearsintherain]

Can't we (dems) just all get along? The endless bickering and shit flinging is way past it's point of usefulness. This divisiveness is killing us. We got to where we are today for a ton of reasons, some of which is our own fault and I think everyone accepts that. Hillary won't run for 2020 so really what she has to say should mean very little at this point.

One of the more fascinating things to me about 2016 was the idea that the republican party would fracture at the end, and people would protest vote third party, stay home, etc. There was serious talk that a third party would win Utah because the Mormons could not stand Trump. The Koch Brothers were going to run a third party candidate to drain votes from Trump. etc.

In the end, Trump won Utah 45% to Hillary's 27%, and the independent McMullin got 21% - he was polling at 30-35%, higher than Trump, in many polls a few weeks before the election. Romney won Utah 4 years earlier with 47% by the way, so Trump really didn't lose much steam at all from the republican base.

It just goes to show that end of the day the conservative side will be pragmatic and vote for their candidate just to get that win in, and its something the democrats seem to forget every 8 years.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Hillary, you lost because Trump tapped into the angry lower middle-class white population, and you didn't.

yeah that definitely had a huge part of it

she worked hard in some areas (prepping for debate and interviews), but super lazy in others....not campaigning in those critical areas.

I remember being super frustrated that right after the DNC convention, she pretty much disappeared in media for a month and allowed Trump to dominate the airwaves. What the hell is wrong with her!!??

and the moment she was back in the public eye, she got sick.

 

[Cranster]

Isn't there more evidence that Bill Clinton is a rapist than Donald Trump is a racist bigot?

No there isn't.

So many sheep obviously fell for the right wing propaganda!

 

[Fail State]

yeah that definitely had a huge part of it

she worked hard in some areas (prepping for debate and interviews), but super lazy in others....not campaigning in those critical areas.

I remember being super frustrated that right after the DNC convention, she pretty much disappeared in media for a month and allowed Trump to dominate the airwaves. What the hell is wrong with her!!??

and the moment she was back in the public eye, she got sick.

Yep, gone for weeks at a time. Privately campaigning to billionaires apparently. Meanwhile Trump was saying she was off the trail because she was essentially dying. Then she reappears and faints. She had a lot of bad luck, but she also had just as many self-made screwups.

 

[thecouncil]

And she still refuses to take responsibility for her actions.

lol

"I take absolute personal responsibility," she said. "I was the candidate. I was the person on the ballot. And I am very aware of, you know, the challenges, the problems, the, you know, shortfalls that we had."

 

[Magwik]

A post from the beginning of last year is I think what really encapsulates Clinton's loss.
In the end I think if she had focused more on winning over union members and campaigning on a populist economic message - she might have been able to beat Trump. Her campaign focusing on the negatives of Trump to me remains the biggest flaw - she basically learned nothing from 2008 primary. Republicans will vote Republican, it's a dem's job just to focus on high voter turnout and you don't get that by having your major platform being "Trump bad"

Which I find incredibly strange, because the UAW endorsed Clinton back in May
https://uaw.org/uaw-endorses-hillary-clinton-president/

 

[Latvian Hitman]

She blames the loss on things that were beyond her control, but didn't really take the blame for some of the things that were. I mean, sure- she says "It was my fault," but then goes on to blame everything but herself/her campaign strategy.

Had her campaign focused on winning the states needed to get to 270 instead of arrogantly trying to expand the electoral map for Dems, she'd be our president right now regardless of what Comey or Putin did or didn't do.

Trump had fewer votes in victory than Romney did in a landslide defeat 4 years earlier. This wasn't about Trump 'exciting' the middle class or the rust belt. This was about Hillary running a tone deaf, arrogant campaign that operated under the assumption from day 1 that the race was already won.

 

[TestOfTide]

I will continue to shit on tone deaf and shortsighted Democrats that seemed to have had no clue that things were not going well for the country outside of their NY/SF/Seattle/Silicon Valley thriving bubbles,

Again, you keep proving that you aren't a progressive when you refer to the diverse communities as "bubbles". The problem with your claim is that numerous suburban areas also went more for Hillary. It was white rural areas (which are the real bubbles considering they have failed to ever live in diversity) that went heavily for Trump.

and DEFINITELY don't appear to have a clue on how to win the country back.

They know a lot more than you considering they are actually trying to employ a 50 state strategy. Meanwhile when a progressive like Ossof has a good chance of winning a red seat, you call him a "corporate shill" right on cue.

They went ahead and nominated a corrupt Prima Donna who wore status quo on her forehead, even if Democrats under 45, independents, and young people were screaming for Bernie. They handed us Trump just as much as Comey or Russia is being accused of doing so.

First off if those under 45 were SCREAMING for Bernie, they would have fucking turned out to vote. They didn't they chose to yet again stay home even during the primaries.

Second, it was the PRIMARY VOTERS that chose Hillary. But I'm sure you have some ridiculous conspiracy theory about how 3 million primary votes were all forged.

Many continue to be tone deaf, but at least now we have leaders like Elizabeth Warren jumping on board in addressing the crushing wealth inequality that is collapsing our country from within

Except Warren isn't ONLY talking about wealth inequality. She is also talking about social issues as well as the Russia stuff.

(can't blame that on Russia). This is the winning anti-status quo message that wins over "real Americans" across all races.

"real Americans" There you go again using a RIGHT WING TALKING POINT. Are the minorities that favored Hillary over Bernie not "real Americans"?

I hope Democrats realize by now that so much shit did not stick to Trump because the Clintons cancelled out many of the accusations (and yes... Bill and Hillary were a package deal no matter what).

So your justification now includes hating Hillary for stuff she herself never even did? Try again, alt-right.

Sexual assault accusations? they cancelled each other out.

No they didn't. Trump was caught on tape bragging about sexual assault. Show me the equivalent with Hillary.

Surrounding themselves with rich elites? they cancelled each other out.

Only if you think all special interests are exactly the same. But I'm sure you are the kind of alt-right guy that would justify when Bernie called Planned Parenthood "part of the establishment".

Being erratic or a global danger to peace? Henry Kissinger Clinton made sure she messed up enough countries to cancel each other out.

The only mess up on Clinton's part was Libya and it was mostly about a lack of a Marshall Plan afterwards. How was the Iran Nuclear Deal a mess-up? How was getting the ceasefire in Gaza a mess-up? How was getting the Paris Climate Deal a mess-up?

Racism? Superpredators Clinton and Mass Incarceration of Blacks Bill did not help themselves there much.

First off Clinton has already apologized for her super predators comment while Trump has STILL not apologized for any of his bigoted comments.

Second, by your own dumb logic, Bernie Sander is just as Racist considering he voted for the 94 crime bill.

The end result? both candidates had shit negative ratings on par with each other, but Democrats were too tone deaf to notice.

Correction: Hillary had shit negative ratings by 2015. Around 2012 she actually had fairly good approval ratings, then the GOP spent 4 years focused on attacking Hillary.

They both had dishonesty ratings that were on par, but Democrats were too tone deaf to notice. The country is slowly collapsing from extreme levels of wealth inequality (leading to all kinds of anxieties across demographics), but Democrats were too tone deaf to notice. Now we have Trump, but hopefully Democrats won't be tone deaf in the 2018 & 2020 campaigns.

Except the Democrats have been the ones tackling wealth inequality to some degree. The ACA absolutely tackles wealth inequality by reducing how often that causes medical bankruptcies.

And BTW, not everything is about wealth inequality. There are many issues across America that have absolutely zero or next to zero about wealth inequality.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Can't we (dems) just all get along? The endless bickering and shit flinging is way past it's point of usefulness. This divisiveness is killing us. We got to where we are today for a ton of reasons, some of which is our own fault and I think everyone accepts that. Hillary won't run for 2020 so really what she has to say should mean very little at this point.

The existential fight right now is for what vision of America do Democrats want to run on. It is a fight that needs to be had.

On one side, the status quo crew (that the world is continually rejecting everywhere) is saying that we can run on a "Not Trump, not racist, not bigoted" vision that doesn't piss off our big money donors and corporate backers. A.k.a. the same shit Clinton tried to pull.

On the other side, the Bernies and Warrens of the world are screaming at the fact that our government has been captured by special interests (which neither voter base would deny at this point), and it is crushing us in most aspects of our lives (money, health, education, etc.) which neither voter base would deny at this point. This side wants to take the fight to those special interests (not to solely attacking Trump supporters as irredeemables) and I believe this is the winning strategy. We know it is a winning strategy against Trump because Bernie Sanders had 8-10 point margins in a head-to-head against Trump all through the election (while Clinton showed that she was often within the margin of error).

We need to pick the winning vision for America, and the corrupt old hags represented by Clinton do not hold the answer. The winning vision for America restores some balance between the American workers and the corporate owners of our government.

 

[Theonik]

Not that ridiculous when you see these daily Trump conspiracy theories. It means she supports him over the women.

lol OK.

Ahem...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/us/politics/james-comey-election.html?_r=1&mtrref=undefined

This plus Loretta Lynch cozying up with Bill Clinton to stonewall the investigation did not help matters...

OK so they have no evidence and complain that the evidence might have been erased and that they can't know. But the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. Funny how that works.

Moreover, the reason they need to prove intent is the nature of the crime. You cannot charge an official for mishandling classified data unless you prove they were intent is what places them as actors. The evidence they had was that indeed Clinton might be receiving classified data but that in itself is not a crime. The problem with making this kind of thing public is also that the public cannot necessarily understand the nature of such an investigation.

 

[Magwik]

The existential fight right now is for what vision of America do Democrats want to run on. It is a fight that needs to be had.

On one side, the status quo crew (that the world is continually rejecting everywhere) is saying that we can run on a "Not Trump, not racist, not bigoted" vision that doesn't piss off our big money donors and corporate backers. A.k.a. the same shit Clinton tried to pull.

On the other side, the Bernies and Warrens of the world are screaming at the fact that our government has been captured by special interests (which neither voter base would deny at this point), and it is crushing us in most aspects of our lives (money, health, education, etc.) which neither voter base would deny at this point. This side wants to take the fight to those special interests (not to solely attacking Trump supporters as irredeemables) and I believe this is the winning strategy. We know it is a winning strategy against Trump because Bernie Sanders had 8-10 point margins in a head-to-head against Trump all through the election (while Clinton showed that she was often within the margin of error).

We need to pick the winning vision for America, and the corrupt old hags represented by Clinton do not hold the answer. The winning vision for America restores some balance between the American workers and the corporate owners of our government.

Fuck off, Clinton ran on continuing Obama's platform and legacy. The winning strategy is change (which is what gave Obama the win by the way), because people like you would rather watch Trump burn the entire system down than have Clinton (an actually good and qualified candidate who would continue steering the country in the right direction) in, simply because she isn't Bernie. Bernie lost. Get over yourself.

 

[TestOfTide]

The existential fight right now is for what vision of America do Democrats want to run on. It is a fight that needs to be had.

On one side, the status quo crew (that the world is continually rejecting everywhere) is saying that we can run on a "Not Trump, not racist, not bigoted" vision that doesn't piss off our big money donors and corporate backers. A.k.a. the same shit Clinton tried to pull.

Way to LIE about what the DNC is doing. The DNC has been reforming in huge ways. They have been backing BOTH Bernie types for rural areas and Ossof types for Suburban areas. (because no, a Bernie type would NOT win a suburban type of republican area).

On the other side, the Bernies and Warrens of the world are screaming at the fact that our government has been captured by special interests (which neither voter base would deny at this point), and it is crushing us in most aspects of our lives (money, health, education, etc.) which neither voter base would deny at this point.

Except neither Bernie or Warren have been claiming that we should abandon Jon Ossof types and focus ONLY on rural types.

This side wants to take the fight to those special interests (not to solely attacking Trump supporters as irredeemables) and I believe this is the winning strategy. We know it is a winning strategy against Trump because Bernie Sanders had 8-10 point margins in a head-to-head against Trump all through the election (while Clinton showed that she was often within the margin of error).

Except Bernie didn't get Any of the negative media spotlight that Hillary and Trump got. Those polls are worthless because Bernie never faced the attacks that Trump and Hillary faced.

We need to pick the winning vision for America, and the corrupt old hags represented by Clinton do not hold the answer. The winning vision for America restores some balance between the American workers and the corporate owners of our government.

There you go again feeding the right wing populist rhetoric. Not everything is about corporatism.

 

[Future]

I don't think she was on her way to winning, but it's impossible to discount the affect of that last minute investigation

Personally I feel like when she called people deplorables, she ignited the opposition and lost votes in contested states. Comments like that are fine in heavy blue areas. But in contested areas where that deplorable may be your relative or spouse or yourself....you done fucked up

 

[ElFly]

Ultra light straw? Bullshit. Wikileaks and Russia were practically working overtime helping Donald Trump.

and still not as important as her ignoring the rust belt and claiming that america was already great, when the people there had valid economic concerns

or just plain old not campaigning enough; Trump said a lot of stupid stuff, but he said something true: Hillary just didn't have as much stamina as him to campaign

 

[Heshinsi]

If those things were enough to "scare off" voters that were inclined towards you, then that probably speaks volumes about you as a candidate, your messaging, and your campaign.

Thirty years of Republican leg work in demonising her works to help that along. People voting for Trunp because he spoke to them, because they trusted him, because some of them believed that the Democrats are the Party of the one percent, because they think she's crooked, etc. Voting for Trump for any of these reasons makes literally no sense. I get not voting at all, but when they claim they don't like Hillary and then openly support the man and party that are worse in every conceivable way, it doesn't make sense.

 

[royalan]

and still not as important as her ignoring the rust belt and claiming that america was already great, when the people there had valid economic concerns

or just plain old not campaigning enough; Trump said a lot of stupid stuff, but he said something true: Hillary just didn't have as much stamina as him to campaign

This has been proven already, the people who cared about the economy voted for Clinton.

This isn't new news. Catch up.

 

[TestOfTide]

and still not as important as her ignoring the rust belt and claiming that america was already great, when the people there had valid economic concerns

I'm not saying that wasn't a factor. I'm saying that Russia's propaganda game was just as important as the fuck ups of Hillary's campaign.

or just plain old not campaigning enough; Trump said a lot of stupid stuff, but he said something true: Hillary just didn't have as much stamina as him to campaign

It wasn't a "stamina" issue. It was an issue of Robby Mook stubbornly caring more about fundraising and data than actual campaigning.

 

[Oni Jazar]

The existential fight right now is for what vision of America do Democrats want to run on. It is a fight that needs to be had.

On one side, the status quo crew (that the world is continually rejecting everywhere) is saying that we can run on a "Not Trump, not racist, not bigoted" vision that doesn't piss off our big money donors and corporate backers. A.k.a. the same shit Clinton tried to pull.

On the other side, the Bernies and Warrens of the world are screaming at the fact that our government has been captured by special interests (which neither voter base would deny at this point), and it is crushing us in most aspects of our lives (money, health, education, etc.) which neither voter base would deny at this point. This side wants to take the fight to those special interests (not to solely attacking Trump supporters as irredeemables) and I believe this is the winning strategy. We know it is a winning strategy against Trump because Bernie Sanders had 8-10 point margins in a head-to-head against Trump all through the election (while Clinton showed that she was often within the margin of error).

We need to pick the winning vision for America, and the corrupt old hags represented by Clinton do not hold the answer. The winning vision for America restores some balance between the American workers and the corporate owners of our government.

I think you were mostly on the right track here about how Democrats should be framing their positions on the future and I agree that attacking special interests and corruption is a good way to get people on your side.

You fell off a bit talking about the Trump/Bernie margins. You can't really say what the political landscape would have been if it were a Trump v Bernie fight. I guarantee the republican strategy would have been very different and I'm really not interested in hypothetical, historical match-ups.

Fuck off, Clinton ran on continuing Obama's platform and legacy. The winning strategy is change (which is what gave Obama the win by the way), because people like you would rather watch Trump burn the entire system down than have Clinton (an actually good and qualified candidate who would continue steering the country in the right direction) in, simply because she isn't Bernie. Bernie lost. Get over yourself.

C'mon man. :|

Let's not make this about the PERSONALITIES. Hillary is done. Bernie is most likely also not running in 2020. The discussion should be about the future.

 

[ElFly]

This has been proven already, the people who cared about the economy voted for Clinton.

This isn't new news. Catch up.

so what was it

and before you say 'racism', remember that a lot of people who voted for obama failed to show up for hillary

and even if I am wrong in this, it should be Hillary the one saying where her campaign went wrong, not blaming the stuff she had no control over

I'm not saying that wasn't a factor. I'm saying that Russia's propaganda game was just as important as the fuck ups of Hillary's campaign.

oh it def wasn't as important

think about it: let's simplify this to two variables: bad campaign/good campaign vs russian hackers and comey/no russian hacker and no comey letter

so there are four possibilities: but with a good campaign, the russian/comey variable doesn't matter cause she keeps the rust belt. she wins if she campaigns badly and there are no external factors

she only loses when she both campaigns wrong and there are external factors. thus the big problem in the defeat was her own campaign, which endangered the whole thing to be brought down by the simplest of problems. it could have been anything. what if her pneumonia had become worse? a second random gaffe in the campaign like when she called the trump voters 'deplorable'? a fuck up in the debates? the only thing that makes such a situation factible at all is her bad campaigning, and thus the main cause is exactly that

she should be concentrating on what she did wrong and never mention comey/russia again until the democrats recover at least some measure of power

It wasn't a "stamina" issue. It was an issue of Robby Mook stubbornly caring more about fundraising and data than actual campaigning.

well I would like Hillary to be saying this

 

[dave is ok]

It wasn't a "stamina" issue. It was an issue of Robby Mook stubbornly caring more about fundraising and data than actual campaigning.

We also had candidates who refused to spend nights in hotels, ensuring people who lived more than an hour or two from a big city would never see them. That hurt Clinton more than it hurt Trump.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Fuck off, Clinton ran on continuing Obama's platform and legacy.

Which is why millions of obama voters stayed home or went Trump.

The nations economic bounce back under Obama did nothing for dying recently full of middle class people towns.

Nothing Clinton (or Trump besides lies and anti Tpp) had anything for these people.

 

[TestOfTide]

I think you were mostly on the right track here about how Democrats should be framing their positions on the future and I agree that attacking special interests and corruption is a good way to get people on your side.

You fell off a bit talking about the Trump/Bernie margins. You can't really say what the political landscape would have been if it were a Trump v Bernie fight. I guarantee the republican strategy would have been very different and I'm really not interested in hypothetical, historical match-ups.



C'mon man. :|

El_Tigure's shtick for months has been to focus entirely on attacking (not constructive criticism. just straight up alt-right talking points) the democrats.

If he actually were a progressive as he claims, he wouldn't have been actively DISCOURAGING people from voting for Jon Ossof.

 

[Sephzilla]

I honestly don't think this is why she lost. She lost because she barely bothered to campaign in states she didn't even win in the primaries (see: Wisconsin) and just assumed those states were hers. She lost because she became a bit too complacent.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I honestly don't think this is why she lost. She lost because she barely bothered to campaign in states she didn't even win in the primaries (see: Wisconsin) and just assumed those states were hers. She lost because she became a bit too complacent.

This. You can still see in this thread why she lost. People denigrating others for voting Trump promises to bring 'shit jobs back'.