Clinton: 'I was on the way to winning' until Comey, Russia intervened

so what was it

and before you say 'racism', remember that a lot of people who voted for obama failed to show up for hillary

and even if I am wrong in this, it should be Hillary the one saying where her campaign went wrong, not blaming the stuff she had no control over

I'll tell you EXACTLY what it was:

Some of it was that Trump's bigotry energized the bigots to turn out in bigger numbers.

But the biggest factor, which many polls about Trump voters show, was that everyone and their mother knew that Hillary would be the 2016 nominee as early as December 2012, so the GOP ran a successful 4 year campaign making 60% of the population think that Hillary Clinton has gotten away with literal murder.

Polls show that a majority of Trump voters say they were mostly just voting AGAINST Hillary rather than IN SUPPORT OF Trump.
 
I'll tell you EXACTLY what it was:

Some of it was that Trump's bigotry energized the bigots to turn out in bigger numbers.

But the biggest factor, which many polls about Trump voters show, was that everyone and their mother knew that Hillary would be the 2016 nominee as early as December 2012, so the GOP ran a successful 4 year campaign making 60% of the population think that Hillary Clinton has gotten away with literal murder.

I'm utterly convinced that Obama ended his term with a positive net favoribility mostly because everything bad from his entire 8 years was successfully blamed on his first-term Secretary of State.
 
Again, you keep proving that you aren't a progressive when you refer to the diverse communities as "bubbles". The problem with your claim is that numerous suburban areas also went more for Hillary. It was white rural areas (which are the real bubbles considering they have failed to ever live in diversity) that went heavily for Trump.

Here... maybe you need to visually see the liberal diverse bubbles that swore everything was fine and dandy for Americans under Obama (even when he himself tells you that 95% of the income gains in his recovery went right to the top).



They know a lot more than you considering they are actually trying to employ a 50 state strategy. Meanwhile when a progressive like Ossof has a good chance of winning a red seat, you call him a "corporate shill" right on cue.

Ossof was good enough for corporate DNC money to pour in, while pro-worker progressives like Thompson get ignored. Great strategy there.

First off if those under 45 were SCREAMING for Bernie, they would have fucking turned out to vote. They didn't they chose to yet again stay home even during the primaries.

They would have turned out to vote, but the DNC made sure their insider coronation sham of a primary went undisturbed for the queen. You might be interested in the recent court transcript from the lawsuit they are facing for being partial towards Clinton. Essentially their message is "fuck your democracy... we don't have to be impartial at all when picking our candidate... oh and please disregard our bylaws."

Second, it was the PRIMARY VOTERS that chose Hillary. But I'm sure you have some ridiculous conspiracy theory about how 3 million primary votes were all forged.

Many many Obama voters stayed home (giving Trump the win) precisely because of all the bullshit pulled by the DNC and the Clinton campaign (and their lapdogs in the media) throughout the primaries.

Except Warren isn't ONLY talking about wealth inequality. She is also talking about social issues as well as the Russia stuff.

You should buy her new book. It's about how we need to fight for the middle class (ahem... because of wealth inequality).

"real Americans" There you go again using a RIGHT WING TALKING POINT. Are the minorities that favored Hillary over Bernie not "real Americans"?

Tone deaf Democrats WANT to turn this into a right wing talking point. Real Americans HAS ALWAYS been the American working class (as opposed to the elites) to progressives. Some Democrats only want to view this from the angle of race, when no progressive has EVER made it about one race over the other.

So your justification now includes hating Hillary for stuff she herself never even did? Try again, alt-right.

How did you not see that both Clintons would be lumped in together?

Only if you think all special interests are exactly the same. But I'm sure you are the kind of alt-right guy that would justify when Bernie called Planned Parenthood "part of the establishment".

Got it... Democrat-supporting corporate cartels, lobbyists, and special interests are the nice ones that TRULY care about the American worker... truly. All hail the corporate donors on our side. The American voter no longer sees a difference between the oligarchs on both sides. Good luck pretending in 2018 and 2020.

The only mess up on Clinton's part was Libya and it was mostly about a lack of a Marshall Plan afterwards.

... and Haiti, and Honduras, and her gung-ho warmongering on Syria, etc. etc. Trump was (mistakenly) seen as an isolationist pacifist compared to her, and it was her own doing.

First off Clinton has already apologized for her super predators comment while Trump has STILL not apologized for any of his bigoted comments.

Second, by your own dumb logic, Bernie Sander is just as Racist considering he voted for the 94 crime bill.

Bernie voted for an assault weapons ban, and violence against women provisions (he did not anticipate how far black oppression would be pushed 22 years later), while Clinton was parading around DC saying that we need to bring black young people to heel. Big difference, but not to a Clinton apologist of course.

Correction: Hillary had shit negative ratings by 2015. Around 2012 she actually had fairly good approval ratings, then the GOP spent 4 years focused on attacking Hillary.

Their attacks stick to the Clintons for a reason. Lo and behold, their own internal emails trickled out that confirmed a lot of the tone deaf self-dealing shenanigans pulled by the Clintons for decades.

Except the Democrats have been the ones tackling wealth inequality to some degree. The ACA absolutely tackles wealth inequality by reducing how often that causes medical bankruptcies.

Except the ACA was fucking useless in reducing premiums, or the frequency of bankruptcies caused by medical costs. While it had good common sense provisions (coverage for pre-existing conditions), like most other sweeping bills passed by our captured government... it was a MASSIVE give-away for the health care sector (and the lobbyists that essentially wrote most of the bill). The ACA ultimately became... you better buy the product health insurers want to sell you, or we will penalize you.

And BTW, not everything is about wealth inequality. There are many issues across America that have absolutely zero or next to zero about wealth inequality.

You are correct. We have tons of social issues to deal with, but wealth inequality is crushing the bottom 90% of Americans. It is the common thread uniting the bottom 90% against the active internal enemies of our country. Tackling this issue is the #1 winning strategy for the next few elections, as the inequality is bound to get worse with another upcoming economic crisis which is already baked into the cake.
 
But the biggest factor, which many polls about Trump voters show, was that everyone and their mother knew that Hillary would be the 2016 nominee as early as December 2012, so the GOP ran a successful 4 year campaign making 60% of the population think that Hillary Clinton has gotten away with literal murder.


Try 30 years. And yes, propaganda works.

Think of it this way; 63 million people voted for the guy that was under an actual FBI investigation on election day instead of the women they incorrectly thought was under investigation.

That's some fucked up shit.
 
She was on the way to winning by extremely slim margins in what should have been a landslide easy victory.

It really shouldn't have been as close as it was before the FBI thing.

She is correct and poll numbers back that up. That said, that she was that close at all is another problem and she is a politician, so that's one of the things that you have to deal with.

YUP!
 
Why do people still reply to El_Tiguere?

He is an alt-right plant, it's so obvious by now.
 
This has been proven already, the people who cared about the economy voted for Clinton.

This isn't new news. Catch up.

Democrat strategists now agree that it was the economy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rs-a-worrisome-answer/?utm_term=.b7bc9458d2a0

[/One finding from the polling stands out: A shockingly large percentage of these Obama-Trump voters said Democrats’ economic policies will favor the wealthy — twice the percentage that said the same about Trump. I was also permitted to view video of some focus group activity, which showed Obama-Trump voters offering sharp criticism of Democrats on the economy.

Oni Jazar said:
You fell off a bit talking about the Trump/Bernie margins. You can't really say what the political landscape would have been if it were a Trump v Bernie fight. I guarantee the republican strategy would have been very different and I'm really not interested in hypothetical, historical match-ups.

Bernie was STILL pulling the same 8-10 margins above Trump up until November 6, and he was consistently favored by 60-40 margins among the independents that were likely to break for either candidate in the last minute. If we want to hypothesize about mean right-wing attacks against Bernie, we can go through a few...

Maybe they would find that he had a Che Guevara poster in college? he already wears the label of "crazy socialist Jew" on his forehead, AND both Gen X and Gen Y folks no longer view socialism as a bad thing.

Maybe they would attack him for owning a few vacation homes? that shit would fall flat while running against Trump.

The biggest thing they could get him on was on the idea that taxes would be raised, but a suddenly-friendly anti-Trump media could have clarified that Bernie was promising a net savings of thousands of dollars per year for all Americans by eliminating private health insurance premiums.

If still in doubt about Bernie's hypothetical performance during the election, just remember that he remains the #1 favorite person in Congress, and he always had positive ratings (versus negatives for Trump and Clinton).

He should NOT run in 2020, but as I said in the other thread, we need a genuine Bernie 2.0 (known for integrity and conviction about a pro-worker vision for America) that is willing to put up a fight against the oligarchs who run our country.

Polls show that a majority of Trump voters say they were mostly just voting AGAINST Hillary rather than IN SUPPORT OF Trump.

True. AGAINST a corrupt status quo that was not working for most, and FOR change... ANY change at that point. They made a bad bet with Trump of course.
 
I'll tell you EXACTLY what it was:

Some of it was that Trump's bigotry energized the bigots to turn out in bigger numbers.

But the biggest factor, which many polls about Trump voters show, was that everyone and their mother knew that Hillary would be the 2016 nominee as early as December 2012, so the GOP ran a successful 4 year campaign making 60% of the population think that Hillary Clinton has gotten away with literal murder.

Polls show that a majority of Trump voters say they were mostly just voting AGAINST Hillary rather than IN SUPPORT OF Trump.

against any other candidate this could have been an important factor, but I don't doubt that there were many people who just voted against trump, who also had a ton of negative publicity

they were both the most disliked candidates possible

but this only highlights a different issue. why was the DNC candidate practically decided in 2012 thus allowing the GOP to run such a campaign? this speaks of issues with the party that, yes, escape to the campaign itself, but are part of the bigger problem of how "the establishment" of the democratic party tanked this. how come the GOP has a more open scheme to electing their candidate than the DNC? this is also something that Clinton is glossing over by blaming the russians
 
Except the ACA was fucking useless in reducing premiums, or the frequency of bankruptcies caused by medical costs. While it had good common sense provisions (coverage for pre-existing conditions), like most other sweeping bills passed by our captured government... it was a MASSIVE give-away for the health care sector (and the lobbyists that essentially wrote most of the bill). The ACA ultimately became... you better buy the product health insurers want to sell you, or we will penalize you.

At the bolded:
You sound like a conspiracy theorist. I understand our government is run by a lot of special interests, but when you say "captured" you may as well be saying D E E P S T A T E.

At the italicized:

The ACA got that way because on the state level, Republicans refused to lower the premiums or improve the bill in any way.
What better way to get people to hate Obama and the democrats than fuck over your constituents and blame them on the black man you taught them to hate for years. Then transplant that hate on to the woman you're running against.

That's the republican agenda. Their constant deregulation and calls for a "free market" are a large part of why the government is pushed by special interests in the first place.

Edit: NM, now you're an expert on political smear campaigns.
I was all for Bernie too, but once he was out of the picture it was obviously time to go Hilary.
But by all means continue ignoring the fact that the FBI, racism, and sexism had nothing to do with it.
 
Here... maybe you need to visually see the liberal diverse bubbles that swore everything was fine and dandy for Americans under Obama (even when he himself tells you that 95% of the income gains in his recovery went right to the top).

Except your image only PROVES my point. The rural areas are social conservative bubbles that are dying off due to not adapting to change well.


Ossof was good enough for corporate DNC money to pour in, while pro-worker progressives like Thompson get ignored. Great strategy there.

Polls didn't show Thompson having a shot until literally less than a week left until the actual election.

meanwhile why aren't mentioning the Montana race that the DCCC has started investing in?

They would have turned out to vote, but the DNC made sure their insider coronation sham of a primary went undisturbed for the queen.

Oh look more ridiculous conspiracy nonsense.

You might be interested in the recent court transcript from the lawsuit they are facing for being partial towards Clinton.

Oh look a dumb conspiracy website that thinks "Hillary Clinton Hijacked Feminism":

https://counterpropa.com/hillary-clinton-hijack-feminist-movement/

Essentially their message is "fuck your democracy... we don't have to be impartial at all when picking our candidate... oh and please disregard our bylaws."

Again, the MAJORITY of primary voters VOTED FOR HILLARY.

Meanwhile your response is more conspiracy nonsense. You gonna talk about fluoride in the water next?

Many many Obama voters stayed home (giving Trump the win) precisely because of all the bullshit pulled by the DNC and the Clinton campaign (and their lapdogs in the media) throughout the primaries.

First off I like that now your ridiculous conspiracy theories now include "the media". Way to keep using right wing talking points.

Second, you can't claim that people were "SCREAMING" for Bernie when they couldn't even be bother to turn out in the primaries.

You should buy her new book. It's about how we need to fight for the middle class (ahem... because of wealth inequality).

And you should actually pay attention to what Warren has said in the Senate, on the campaign trail, and in tweets. She doesn't just talk about wealth inequality.

Tone deaf Democrats WANT to turn this into a right wing talking point. Real Americans HAS ALWAYS been the American working class (as opposed to the elites) to progressives. Some Democrats only want to view this from the angle of race, when no progressive has EVER made it about one race over the other.

There you go again claiming that minorities are "the elites". Why didn't the minority working class vote for Bernie or Trump?

How did you not see that both Clintons would be lumped in together?

EXCEPT YOU ARE THE ONE DOING THE LUMPING.

Got it... Democrat-supporting corporate cartels, lobbyists, and special interests are the nice ones that TRULY care about the American worker... truly.

Is planned parenthood a "corporate cartel"? Is the NAACP a "corporate cartel"? Answer the questions.

All hail the corporate donors on our side. The American voter no longer sees a difference between the oligarchs on both sides. Good luck pretending in 2018 and 2020.

correction: YOU no longer see any difference because apparently you think that PLANNED PARENTHOOD is just as bad as the Koch Bros.

And it would help Dems win in 2018 and 2020 if we didn't have people like you focusing all your energy on attacking democrats rather than opposing Trump.

... and Haiti, and Honduras, and her gung-ho warmongering on Syria, etc. etc. Trump was (mistakenly) seen as an isolationist pacifist compared to her, and it was her own doing.

Gung Ho War mongering in Syria? What the fuck are you talking about? Hillary had absolutely nothing to do with Syria.


Bernie voted for an assault weapons ban, and violence against women provisions (he did not anticipate how far black oppression would be pushed 22 years later), while Clinton was parading around DC saying that we need to bring black young people to heel. Big difference, but not to a Clinton apologist of course.

And now you are making up bullshit claims about Hillary saying to "bring black people to heel". What is it with you falling for every bullshit alt-right talking point.

And what do those two bills have to do with the fact THAT BERNIE VOTED FOR THE CRIME BILL?


Their attacks stick to the Clintons for a reason. Lo and behold, their own internal emails trickled out that confirmed a lot of the tone deaf self-dealing shenanigans pulled by the Clintons for decades.

They stuck because the GOP had been focused on attacking her for 4 years and had practice doing it for decades. And guess who the GOP has been targeting next? Elizabeth Warren. So I hope you aren't stupid enough to think Warren should be the next nominee.

Except the ACA was fucking useless in reducing premiums,

Except it DID reduce the rate at which premiums had been increasing and put numerous regulations on WHERE that money has to go.

or the frequency of bankruptcies caused by medical costs.

Did you miss this thread or did you just want to hope I wouldn't notice it?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1367806

While it had good common sense provisions (coverage for pre-existing conditions), like most other sweeping bills passed by our captured government... it was a MASSIVE give-away for the health care sector (and the lobbyists that essentially wrote most of the bill). The ACA ultimately became... you better buy the product health insurers want to sell you, or we will penalize you.

That's the trade-off that was needed to pay for taking on those with pre-existing conditions. Without the mandate, the risk pools become too expensive per person because of a lack of heathy people in the risk pools.

You are correct. We have tons of social issues to deal with, but wealth inequality is crushing the bottom 90% of Americans. It is the common thread uniting the bottom 90% against the active internal enemies of our country. Tackling this issue is the #1 winning strategy for the next few elections, as the inequality is bound to get worse with another upcoming economic crisis which is already baked into the cake.

Except it isn't as universally cared about. Go to any suburban area that voted for both Romney and Hillary and tell them what you just told me. They would laugh in your face.

The way to win in 2018 is not fucking universal. It requires different priorities for different areas (AKA a 50 state strategy that Tom Perez has been working on and that Howard Dean first successfully ran in 2006 and 2008).

Your strategy might win over some rural voters, but it will turn off numerous suburban and urban voters.

True. AGAINST a corrupt status quo that was not working for most, and FOR change... ANY change at that point. They made a bad bet with Trump of course.

NOPE. Not against the status quo. Just SPECIFICALLY against Hillary. As in a lot of these voters still like Obama.

against any other candidate this could have been an important factor, but I don't doubt that there were many people who just voted against trump, who also had a ton of negative publicity

There absolutely were those types too such as my own dad. They were the Romney Hillary voters and they were mostly in suburban areas, but were outnumbered by the number of Obama Trump voters in rural areas.

but this only highlights a different issue. why was the DNC candidate practically decided in 2012 thus allowing the GOP to run such a campaign? this speaks of issues with the party that, yes, escape to the campaign itself, but are part of the bigger problem of how "the establishment" of the democratic party tanked this. how come the GOP has a more open scheme to electing their candidate than the DNC? this is also something that Clinton is glossing over by blaming the russians

I didn't say that the 2016 primaries had been decided by 2012. I am saying that everyone knew Hillary would run again. If you want to blame all of those that were CONSIDERING running but didn't go ahead, but the DNC didn't tell those potential candidates to not run.
 
Hillary, you lost because Trump tapped into the angry lower middle-class white population, and you didn't.

62 mil voted for Bush in 2004
60 mil voted for McCain and Mittens.

63 mil for Trump isn't really some outrageous number like people are putting up, when the base has been around 60million for the past 4 elections. Trump didn't magically tap into a base that elevated the party ala Obama did in 2008 where it jumped over 10million from the next highest. Trump got bit better turn out than Bush did, but there is no drastic increase like people are saying. We had a mildly weaker Dem turnout than expected, while a mildly stronger Rep showing than expected. Which, isn't it typically what happens after a 2 term president?
 
I didn't say that the 2016 primaries had been decided by 2012. I am saying that everyone knew Hillary would run again. If you want to blame all of those that were CONSIDERING running but didn't go ahead, but the DNC didn't tell those potential candidates to not run.

it is worrying that the party cannot produce any other viable candidates other than bernie who was an outsider tho

but then again somehow the GOP managed to make like a dozen pseudoviable* guys to show up as candidates but the DNC cannot. that does not speak of a healthy party. ok I am not 100% sure if I can blame Hillary and/or the establishment on that, but given that Hillary seemed to have the DNC leadership p sewn up, at least a little of the guilt too goes to her

I mean, not even her VP was a reasonable pick. what the fuck does the DNC have for 2020. People are mentioning Bernie and Biden again which is insane to think about, even from the age angle alone


*as viable as GOP people are
 
shouldnt have been that close to matter what comey or the russians did. for a normal candidate that stuff would have just engendered support and enthusiasm. show up in michican, wisconsin, pennsylvania, how about that.
 
It's an actual term, he doesn't mean it was taken over by spies or something.

Wow. Today I learned something new. That really sounds like a conspiracy nut term.

I didn't think he meant spies specifically, but basically corporate representatives making actual legislation indirectly or otherwise.

Now that Trump is in power this is actually the case.
 
She lost because she was an establishment candidate facing a massive wave of anti-establishment sentiment.

The investigation galvanized Republicans to hold their nose and vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils.

But Democrats ultimately lost because they didn't show up and vote. That's on her.
 
it is worrying that the party cannot produce any other viable candidates other than bernie who was an outsider tho

but then again somehow the GOP managed to make like a dozen pseudoviable* guys to show up as candidates but the DNC cannot. that does not speak of a healthy party. ok I am not 100% sure if I can blame Hillary and/or the establishment on that, but given that Hillary seemed to have the DNC leadership p sewn up, at least a little of the guilt too goes to her

I mean, not even her VP was a reasonable pick. what the fuck does the DNC have for 2020. People are mentioning Bernie and Biden again which is insane to think about, even from the age angle alone


*as viable as GOP people are
Obama WAS "the establishment"!

She was his pick. Everyone knew it. And when you have Obama + Clinton combo'd, no one inside the party except one very terrible candidate (O'Malley) wanted to actually run against that juggernaut.
 
El_Tigure's shtick for months has been to focus entirely on attacking (not constructive criticism. just straight up alt-right talking points) the democrats.

If he actually were a progressive as he claims, he wouldn't have been actively DISCOURAGING people from voting for Jon Ossof.

Okay thats actually fucked.

He is a plant.
 
Obama WAS "the establishment"!

She was his pick. Everyone knew it. And when you have Obama + Clinton combo'd, no one inside the party except one very terrible candidate (O'Malley) wanted to actually run against that juggernaut.

There were multiple Senators or Governors. Sanders, Hillary, Chaffee, O'Malley, Webb, vs. 9 on the Republican side.

Chaffee and O'Malley are/were both wildly unpopular governors, though.
 
There were multiple Senators or Governors. Sanders, Hillary, Chaffee, O
Malley, Webb, vs. 9 on the Republican side.

Chaffee and O'Malley are/were both wildly unpopular governors, though.
Sanders wasn't a Democrat ;)

And I forgot about Chaffee lol.
 
it is worrying that the party cannot produce any other viable candidates other than bernie who was an outsider tho

but then again somehow the GOP managed to make like a dozen pseudoviable* guys to show up as candidates but the DNC cannot. that does not speak of a healthy party. ok I am not 100% sure if I can blame Hillary and/or the establishment on that, but given that Hillary seemed to have the DNC leadership p sewn up, at least a little of the guilt too goes to her

I mean, not even her VP was a reasonable pick. what the fuck does the DNC have for 2020. People are mentioning Bernie and Biden again which is insane to think about, even from the age angle alone


*as viable as GOP people are

And that is a legitimate issue the Democratic Party is facing: Not enough new faces popping up. It could be fixed with more grassroots efforts to get democrats winning at local races.

I'm just saying that people need realize that a big chunk of Trump voters would have literally voted for almost any Democrat that wasn't Hillary.
 
At the bolded:
You sound like a conspiracy theorist. I understand our government is run by a lot of special interests, but when you say "captured" you may as well be saying D E E P S T A T E.

There is evidence all over the place, but if you need a Princeton study to tell you that government has mostly served special interests for the last 40 years, then here you go:

Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

What better way to get people to hate Obama and the democrats than fuck over your constituents and blame them on the black man you taught them to hate for years. Then transplant that hate on to the woman you're running against.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/opinion/cupp-gruber-obamacare/

and

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...amacare-reap-windfall-as-washington-lobbyists

That's the republican agenda. Their constant deregulation and calls for a "free market" are a large part of why the government is pushed by special interests in the first place.

I agree. The Democrat status quo agenda is to expand subsidies to profitable corporations, government contracts to goose up their donors, and expand anti-competitive regulation that crush small players on behalf of our wealthy donors. Different side of the same captured coin.

Except your image only PROVES my point. The rural areas are social conservative bubbles that are dying off due to not adapting to change well.

They are dying off because the elite don't have incentives to invest money in these areas. Democrats oversaw many years of that trend, and got blamed for it in the latest wealth-grab after the 2008 crisis.

meanwhile why aren't mentioning the Montana race that the DCCC has started investing in?

Ignoring TWO progressives back to back would have been too much of an image problem at this point.

Oh look a dumb conspiracy website that thinks "Hillary Clinton Hijacked Feminism":

Oh look a dumb strawman to COMPLETELY ignore talking about the actual court transcript where the DNC admits to not giving a shit about being partial in the primary process.

First off I like that now your ridiculous conspiracy theories now include "the media". Way to keep using right wing talking points.

https://www.boston.com/news/politic...irms-refutes-bernie-sanderss-complaints-media

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...ercome-media-consensus-around-hillary-Clinton

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-hanley/bernie-sanders-is-exactly_b_9559188.html

And you should actually pay attention to what Warren has said in the Senate, on the campaign trail, and in tweets. She doesn't just talk about wealth inequality.

After the Democrat post-mortem of 2016, it is her focus, as highlighted in her new book.

There you go again claiming that minorities are "the elites". Why didn't the minority working class vote for Bernie or Trump?

Lol how did you get that from my comment? "working class" includes minorities. Young minority voters DID go for Bernie.

EXCEPT YOU ARE THE ONE DOING THE LUMPING.

So did the voters...

Is planned parenthood a "corporate cartel"? Is the NAACP a "corporate cartel"? Answer the questions.

I have nothing against planned parenthood or the NAACP. You do have to admit, however, that bureaucracy and power-players in a lot of these institutions are no longer in tune with the needs of many Americans (I'm thinking about the big unions). Power and money corrupts absolutely as they say.

correction: YOU no longer see any difference because apparently you think that PLANNED PARENTHOOD is just as bad as the Koch Bros.

WRONG. I see a George Soros or a Goldman Sachs, or a Blackstone just as bad as the Koch Bros. I am a big defender of planned parenthood for what they do for women.

Gung Ho War mongering in Syria? What the fuck are you talking about? Hillary had absolutely nothing to do with Syria.

Read this entire article to see what Obama thought about Clinton's position on Syria:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/

And now you are making up bullshit claims about Hillary saying to "bring black people to heel". What is it with you falling for every bullshit alt-right talking point.

Clinton's quote:

"They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

And what do those two bills have to do with the fact THAT BERNIE VOTED FOR THE CRIME BILL?

Err.... they were IN the bill that Bernie voted for.

Except it DID reduce the rate at which premiums had been increasing and put numerous regulations on WHERE that money has to go.

Yeah too bad it came out a few weeks before the election that ACA premiums were about to hike by an average of 17% within the year.

That's the trade-off that was needed to pay for taking on those with pre-existing conditions. Without the mandate, the risk pools become too expensive per person because of a lack of heathy people in the risk pools.

OR you champion a health care system that doesn't fuck over Americans and forces people to buy private health insurance (ala rest of the modern developed world).
 
Considering the dumpster fire of a person she was up against who basically gave her a buffet of mud to sling I'd say the whole EMAILZ things is incidental to her loss.
 
Yes, she's right in the narrow sense. The letter from Comey sunk her campaign in the last week. Nate Silver showed the voting patterns in the final week that heavily favored Trump in the swing states. Even though he reclosed the investigation with a day or two to go, the damage was already done (and all it did was bring another news cycle talking about emails).

But, she really could have overcome the Comey letter if she campaigned more, especially in PA, WI, and MI. And of course, she doomed herself before the campaign started with the private email server. She gave the other side ammo to blow something out of proportion like they did with Benghazi.
 
They stuck because the GOP had been focused on attacking her for 4 years and had practice doing it for decades. And guess who the GOP has been targeting next? Elizabeth Warren. So I hope you aren't stupid enough to think Warren should be the next nominee.
Worth noting that Obama back in '06 and Gillibrand now have both lied through their teeth about being interested in running for President. Both because it's something you do to assure your local voters you aren't just using the post as a stepping stone, and because it's something you do explicitly to avoid making a target of yourself years ahead of time.
 
Hillary, you lost because Trump tapped into the angry lower middle-class white population, and you didn't.
No, not just that, but it's one of numerous factors.

It's amazing hoe Progressives turn on their own like a pack of rabbid wolves sometimes.

She was a very flawed candidate, and her campaign made strategic mistakes. Some, ignoring the middle class in the rust belt and considering unions pre owned possibly having been the tipping points, but there were also a ton of other factors.
Beside her personal mistakes and her campaign's:

She was the incumbent (following after Obama)
She was representing "the establishment" and "Washington" when her two opponents (Sanders in primaries and Trump) were about "change"
She was targeted day in and day out, as well as her campaign and the DNC by Russian hackers/ Wikileaks
She is a Woman
She is an "elderly" Woman
Comey came up with the letter about emails 10 days before the election, but said nothing about her opponent who was actually under much worse suspicion
GOP has been bashing her repeatedly for 25 years. Remember Benghazzi?
ACA premium increase reported right before election
Her aide's husband gross behavior came back right before the election, bringing back flavors of Bill Clinton back to the forefront
Etc.
 
She's not wrong, but the biggest reason she lost is because people didn't like her enough to vote for her. That is a combination of a number of factors, including what she mentioned here. But she is also to blame for a poor campaign and the ghosts of her past, long political career. She also bumbled the rust belt, took it for granted, and Trump swooped in.

I imagine many voters had their minds made up long before Comey did his thing. Polls have proven to be all over the place this past election, so I'm not sure they should be a trusty gauge in the discussion.

In short, DNC ran a bad candidate and she ran a bad campaign.
 
Id say losing Obama voters and getting them to flip Trump is the biggest sin. If that was because of Comey and Wikileaks then yeah I agree with her
 
They are dying off because the elite don't have incentives to invest money in these areas. Democrats oversaw many years of that trend, and got blamed for it in the latest wealth-grab after the 2008 crisis.

There you go again claiming it's an issue of "the elites" right on cue. Are the numerous people who left the rural areas of their own volition part of the "elites". Are the elites to blame for the fact that while suburban areas have been increasing in diversity, these rural areas have rejected diversity?

Ignoring TWO progressives back to back would have been too much of an image problem at this point.

There you go again with your crazy conspiracy theories. "Oh the democrats are only investing in the Montana race to APPEAR to care". Yeah couldn't possibly be that they legitimately were taken by surprise with the Kansa race and genuinely want Quist to win........

Oh look a dumb strawman to COMPLETELY ignore talking about the actual court transcript where the DNC admits to not giving a shit about being partial in the primary process.

That's not a straw man. That's literally what your source claims. If this shit were legitimate you'd have a source for it that isn't riddled with bullshit conspiracy nonsense.


Your first source is simply an op ed saying that most news stories were about Hillary. Well yeah no shit. Bernie wasn't a well known name until recently.

Your second source brings up that Bernie was treated with kid gloves by the media. The media ran next to no negative stories about Bernie.

Your third source has absolutely nothing to do with the primaries and is only about the fact that a lot of our media is owned by 6 corporations.

After the Democrat post-mortem of 2016, it is her focus, as highlighted in her new book.

It's not her only focus though.

[quote[Lol how did you get that from my comment? "working class" includes minorities. Young minority voters DID go for Bernie. [/quote]

Actually young minorities were split almost evenly between Hillary and Bernie. Also wokring class voters and younger voters are two different groups. Also the minority working class voted overwhelmingly for Hillary in the general election.

So did the voters...

But YOU are the one that claims they are equal.

I have nothing against planned parenthood or the NAACP. You do have to admit, however, that bureaucracy and power-players in a lot of these institutions are no longer in tune with the needs of many Americans (I'm thinking about the big unions). Power and money corrupts absolutely as they say.

If you have nothing against those groups, then why does your follow up sentence implicitly call them corrupt?

WRONG. I see a George Soros or a Goldman Sachs, or a Blackstone just as bad as the Koch Bros. I am a big defender of planned parenthood for what they do for women.

There you go again with another Alt-Right conspiracy. The alt-right LOVES to claim that George Soros is behind everything.

Read this entire article to see what Obama thought about Clinton's position on Syria:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/

Again Syria was Kerry and Obama's fuck up, not Hillary's.

Clinton's quote:

"They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

First off she has apologized for the superpredators comment multiple times. Second The super-predators quote was not specifically about minorities.

Err.... they were IN the bill that Bernie voted for.

So why don't you frame it as the Democrats having supported those other parts? It's only with the Dems that you focus on the Crime Bill part of it.

Yeah too bad it came out a few weeks before the election that ACA premiums were about to hike by an average of 17% within the year.

Which is still overall slower than how much premiums were skyrocketing prior to the ACA.

OR you champion a health care system that doesn't fuck over Americans and forces people to buy private health insurance (ala rest of the modern developed world).

And what? You think that can happen with a snap of the fingers? Colorado voted against single payer by a 4 to 1 margin. Massachusetts LOVES RomneyCare.

It doesn't matter whether or not the insurance is literally owned by the government. What matters is making sure that as many people as possible have their healthcare covered and insured when they need it. That's what the ACA was a HUGE step on and it overall has worked great so much so that the GOP is finding a lot of trouble getting a consensus on repealing it.
 
Isn't there more evidence that Bill Clinton is a rapist than Donald Trump is a racist bigot?

This post is great because it perfectly sums up why Hillary lost: because to a lot of Americans it is literally impossible for any action or statement to ever be racist.
 
There you go again claiming it's an issue of "the elites" right on cue. Are the numerous people who left the rural areas of their own volition part of the "elites". Are the elites to blame for the fact that while suburban areas have been increasing in diversity, these rural areas have rejected diversity?

They have not rejected diversity, as much as people are forced to leave rural areas if they want a good paying job. The mass migration from rural areas to urban areas happens in pursuit of jobs, and then we wonder why people that are left to rot get anxious and angry about their prospects. Access to transportation, banking, telecommunications, information, training, etc. are all KEY to address the isolation of those people, but Democrats were too busy bailing out wall street, big auto, big pharma, the rest of the healthcare sector, for-profit colleges and student loan lenders, etc. etc,. etc. to notice that more than half of the country is now struggling paycheck to paycheck. It cost them multiple elections since 2008 for being tone deaf and out of touch. Saying "yeah but robots..." does nothing to address the anxieties of Americans.

There you go again with your crazy conspiracy theories. "Oh the democrats are only investing in the Montana race to APPEAR to care". Yeah couldn't possibly be that they legitimately were taken by surprise with the Kansa race and genuinely want Quist to win........

The evidence is all around you on who the old tired status quo party wants to support or not. Thankfully we at least have Ellison and Bernie there to keep them in check.

That's not a straw man. That's literally what your source claims. If this shit were legitimate you'd have a source for it that isn't riddled with bullshit conspiracy nonsense.

So what did you think about the court transcript?

Your first source is simply an op ed saying that most news stories were about Hillary. Well yeah no shit. Bernie wasn't a well known name until recently.

The media and the Hillary campaign wanted to keep it that way. Is that how you would run a democracy ran on principles?

Your second source brings up that Bernie was treated with kid gloves by the media. The media ran next to no negative stories about Bernie.

Yeah it's hard to find shit to flung at a statesman who has been pretty persistent in his life in politics against corruption and injustice, and who is actually bringing out passion in voters. Of course, leave it to the Clinton-friendly Washington Post to pull a smear campaign on command for their homegirl. Can't forget this wonderful journalistic nugget:

Washington Post Runs 16 Anti-Sanders Ads in 16 hours

Your third source has absolutely nothing to do with the primaries and is only about the fact that a lot of our media is owned by 6 corporations.

Want to guess how many of those would be complicit with the Hillary campaign to both prop up Donald Trump as her desired "Pied Piper" candidate, and to placate the anti-corporate adversary of the anointed queen? How many would you guess did it to have access to the future mandame President? If you had been paying attention, you would be baffled by how concerted the effort was... for example, can't forget the objective treatment around the debates in the primaries:

704e809b543ead9cd4df3e8973446a96.jpg


It's not her only focus though.

True... this is part of the description of her book in Amazon:

Warren grew up in Oklahoma, and she’s never forgotten how difficult it was for her mother and father to hold on at the ragged edge of the middle class. An educational system that offered opportunities for all made it possible for her to achieve her dream of going to college, becoming a teacher, and, later, attending law school. But now, for many, these kinds of opportunities are gone, and a government that once looked out for working families is instead captive to the rich and powerful. Seventy-five years ago, President Franklin Roosevelt and his New Deal ushered in an age of widespread prosperity; in the 1980s, President Ronald Reagan reversed course and sold the country on the disastrous fiction called trickle-down economics. Now, with the election of Donald Trump--a con artist who promised to drain the swamp of special interests and then surrounded himself with billionaires and lobbyists--the middle class is being pushed ever closer to collapse.

Would you join the fight? or do you not want to rock the boat that would upset our big donors a bit too much?

Actually young minorities were split almost evenly between Hillary and Bernie. Also wokring class voters and younger voters are two different groups.

Young minorities were pro-Bernie in the majority. As many mnay others have pointed out before, the Clinton vs Bernie difference came mostly down to AGE. Older out-of-touch voters who are still stuck in the red scare 1960's mostly went for Clinton. Most people under 45, with the most to lose over the next 30 years, went for Bernie.

There you go again with another Alt-Right conspiracy. The alt-right LOVES to claim that George Soros is behind everything.

Not everything at all, but if you are not aware that he dabbles into the politics of entire nations in order to make a buck, you are out of touch. Ukraine is a prime example, and Hillary surely kisses the hand of Soros for a lot of her foreign policies (you can read it yourself in the emails... Soros got want Soros wanted out of Clinton on Albania, for example). How are you surprised that politicians pull favors for their biggest financial backers?

Again Syria was Kerry and Obama's fuck up, not Hillary's.

Read the article. In it, Obama directly implies that people like Clinton belong in the "do stupid shit caucus" after her gung-ho position about Syria and no-fly zones. She's a Henry Kissinger stooge and warmonger, no matter how much you try to deny it. She says he is her mentor herself. Are you ok with Henry Kissinger? ... so much for being a pro-humanity liberal...

First off she has apologized for the superpredators comment multiple times. Second The super-predators quote was not specifically about minorities.

Sure thing bud...

So why don't you frame it as the Democrats having supported those other parts? It's only with the Dems that you focus on the Crime Bill part of it.

It's only for the Clintons who were pushing this blatantly racist crime aspect of the bill. Clinton was taking money from the private prison cartel up until she got caught doing so by 2016. Are you cool with the private prison lobby being cushy with the Clintons? just politics as usual right? definitely cool to hand them the presidency right?

Which is still overall slower than how much premiums were skyrocketing prior to the ACA.

Congrats? we STILL lost voters because they were looking at 17-30% hikes on their insurance. Can you blame them?

And what? You think that can happen with a snap of the fingers? Colorado voted against single payer by a 4 to 1 margin. Massachusetts LOVES RomneyCare.

It happens when our damn leaders and media push for it. Democrats bought and paid for by big insurance and big pharma could give three shits about reducing the profits for their campaign donation benefactors. These anti-real American assholes who have been captured by special interests... who put the interests of their corporate sponsors aherad of those of their constituents... these are the asshole Democrats that need to step aside. Are you arguing that we should leave them in place, and let them work their magic?

It doesn't matter whether or not the insurance is literally owned by the government. What matters is making sure that as many people as possible have their healthcare covered and insured when they need it.

It means fuck all to have "access" to health insurance (a word Republicans are counting on to dupe Americans) if you can't afford it. There was no leadership on the Democrat side pushing to reign in corporate greed of the health care sector. The ACA was a Christmas gift to corporations.
 
They have not rejected diversity, as much as people are forced to leave rural areas if they want a good paying job.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN defending social conservatives MR PROGRESSIVE. No. the fact is that those rural areas HAVE rejected diversity. Ask any minority what their experience has been in rural white America. You won't get a pleasant answer.

The mass migration from rural areas to urban areas happens in pursuit of jobs, and then we wonder why people that are left to rot get anxious and angry about their prospects.

Except its ALSO that these white rural areas refuse to allow diversity to enter their areas.

Access to transportation, banking, telecommunications, information, training, etc. are all KEY to address the isolation of those people,

Can't do that because if Dems tried to do that, these rural white areas would reject it as "the elite forcing their way of life upon us".

but Democrats were too busy bailing out wall street, big auto, big pharma, the rest of the healthcare sector, for-profit colleges and student loan lenders, etc. etc,. etc.

Notice that so far you have DEFENDED social conservatives while attacking liberals MR PROGRESSIVE.

I also like the part where you pretend democrats HAVENT invested in infrastructure when the fact is THEY HAVE. Or did you forget about the stimulus package and all the public transportation that democrats like to fund.

to notice that more than half of the country is now struggling paycheck to paycheck. It cost them multiple elections since 2008 for being tone deaf and out of touch. Saying "yeah but robots..." does nothing to address the anxieties of Americans.

It's not about saying "yeah but robots". It's about the fact that these rural white voters would rather blame their job loss on minorities and immigrants than on the actual reasons they lost their jobs.

The evidence is all around you on who the old tired status quo party wants to support or not. Thankfully we at least have Ellison and Bernie there to keep them in check.

The difference is that at the end of the day, Ellison and Bernie want Jon Ossof to win where as a fake progressive like you wants Handel to win.

Also, going "the evidence is all around you" is a bullshit response that conspiracy theorists love to use.

So what did you think about the court transcript?

I think it doesn't matter because the court case isn't even in the phase of determining whether or not to outright dismiss the case. Or did you forget how court cases work?

The media and the Hillary campaign wanted to keep it that way. Is that how you would run a democracy ran on principles?

THERE YOU GO AGAIN with your conspiracy theories. Do you have any PROOF that the media all colluded with Hillary to keep Bernie from winning?

Yeah it's hard to find shit to flung at a statesman who has been pretty persistent in his life in politics against corruption and injustice, and who is actually bringing out passion in voters. Of course, leave it to the Clinton-friendly Washington Post to pull a smear campaign on command for their homegirl. Can't forget this wonderful journalistic nugget:

Washington Post Runs 16 Anti-Sanders Ads in 16 hours

THERE YOU GO AGAIN with your conspiracy theories about the media. You have no evidence of the media colluding with the Clintons.

And I just LOVE how you like to pretend that there was nothing to hold against Bernie. Shall we go down the list?

- Bernie attacked planned parenthood
- Bernie wrote a rape-fantasy fiction
- Bernie praised Fidel fucking Castro
- Sierra Blanca
- Bernie tried to block same-sex marriage in his state back in 2006

Just off the top of my head.

Want to guess how many of those would be complicit with the Hillary campaign to both prop up Donald Trump as her desired "Pied Piper" candidate,

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE PIED PIPER STARTEGY IS. The pied piper strategy is where you try to get the moderates running to be forced to take more extreme positions. It worked in 2012 against Mitt Romney.

and to placate the anti-corporate adversary of the anointed queen? How many would you guess did it to have access to the future mandame President? If you had been paying attention, you would be baffled by how concerted the effort was... for example, can't forget the objective treatment around the debates in the primaries:

704e809b543ead9cd4df3e8973446a96.jpg

Lol of course your fucking "evidence" is a NON-SCIENTIFIC POLL. By your own dumb logic, Trump did AMAZING during the debates.

True... this is part of the description of her book in Amazon:

Warren grew up in Oklahoma, and she’s never forgotten how difficult it was for her mother and father to hold on at the ragged edge of the middle class. An educational system that offered opportunities for all made it possible for her to achieve her dream of going to college, becoming a teacher, and, later, attending law school. But now, for many, these kinds of opportunities are gone, and a government that once looked out for working families is instead captive to the rich and powerful. Seventy-five years ago, President Franklin Roosevelt and his New Deal ushered in an age of widespread prosperity; in the 1980s, President Ronald Reagan reversed course and sold the country on the disastrous fiction called trickle-down economics. Now, with the election of Donald Trump--a con artist who promised to drain the swamp of special interests and then surrounded himself with billionaires and lobbyists--the middle class is being pushed ever closer to collapse.

Notice the part where she isn't blaming shit on the democrats like YOU DO.

Would you join the fight? or do you not want to rock the boat that would upset our big donors a bit too much?

Buddy, I'm am 100% certain that I have done more actual "fighting" than you. I spent 550 hours working for the democratic campaign in a swing state. What the hell have you ever done for progressive causes?

Young minorities were pro-Bernie in the majority.

But it was not a huge majority. it was something like 53-47. Which is much different compared to say younger white primary voters.

As many mnay others have pointed out before, the Clinton vs Bernie difference came mostly down to AGE. Older out-of-touch voters

I'm sorry, did you just refer to older voters as OUT OF TOUCH. I thought you were defending these older rural voters as "real America that is left behind by the elites" before.

Can you at least TRY to be consistent?

who are still stuck in the red scare 1960's mostly went for Clinton. Most people under 45, with the most to lose over the next 30 years, went for Bernie.

wrong again. It was also a gender split and a race split. Look at what happened in the southern states. That was ENTIRELY because Bernie was tone deaf to black democrats in the south.

Not everything at all, but if you are not aware that he dabbles into the politics of entire nations in order to make a buck, you are out of touch. Ukraine is a prime example, and Hillary surely kisses the hand of Soros for a lot of her foreign policies (you can read it yourself in the emails... Soros got want Soros wanted out of Clinton on Albania, for example). How are you surprised that politicians pull favors for their biggest financial backers?

Again, there you go claiming that GEORGE SOROS is the one behind all of Clinton's foreign policy.

Read the article. In it, Obama directly implies that people like Clinton belong in the "do stupid shit caucus" after her gung-ho position about Syria and no-fly zones. She's a Henry Kissinger stooge and warmonger, no matter how much you try to deny it. She says he is her mentor herself. Are you ok with Henry Kissinger? ... so much for being a pro-humanity liberal...

Oh I LOVE this bullshit about Hillary being a warmonger. She's not a "war-monger". She is pro-interventionist. Would a WAR MONGER have pushed for the Iran Nuclear Deal?

It's only for the Clintons who were pushing this blatantly racist crime aspect of the bill. Clinton was taking money from the private prison cartel up until she got caught doing so by 2016. Are you cool with the private prison lobby being cushy with the Clintons? just politics as usual right? definitely cool to hand them the presidency right?

Except Bernie supported the 94 crime bill even BEFORE it had the assault weapons ban:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-sanders-chuck-todd-debate-crime-bill-vote-a/

Which means that his reason for supporting the bill was bullshit.

Congrats? we STILL lost voters because they were looking at 17-30% hikes on their insurance. Can you blame them?

Those hikes were going to happen no matter what. But there you go again acting like a republican by trying to frame the ACA as the worst thing ever.

It happens when our damn leaders and media push for it.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN with the dumb conspiracy theories in the face of facts that contradict your own assumptions.

Democrats bought and paid for by big insurance and big pharma could give three shits about reducing the profits for their campaign donation benefactors.

Is that why Dems created a healthcare reform bill that greatly regulated what insurance companies can do?

These anti-real American assholes who have been captured by special interests... who put the interests of their corporate sponsors aherad of those of their constituents... these are the asshole Democrats that need to step aside. Are you arguing that we should leave them in place, and let them work their magic?

First off every time you use the dumb phrase "real America" you further prove that you are NOT a progressive.

And if the democrats were to step aside, that would cause the conservative republicans to gain 100% control. Then again you probably WANT that considering how you post.

If you REALLY wanted to see a more progressive party rise, then you would know it would first require the more Conservative party (aka the GOP) to fall.

It means fuck all to have "access" to health insurance (a word Republicans are counting on to dupe Americans) if you can't afford it. There was no leadership on the Democrat side pushing to reign in corporate greed of the health care sector. The ACA was a Christmas gift to corporations.

I'm not talking about access in the republican meaning. I'm talking about the fact that the ACA has caused more Americans to have their healthcare covered.
 
I will say this. Hillary's enthusiasm was toilet tier here in Seattle. Whenever I see a vanishingly rare Clinton bunmper sticker, it's almost a shock, and I keep forgetting Tim Kaine was her running mate.

It was a lazy campaign and voters were slacking.

But everything else is still true. Mysoginy, Comey, rust belt avoidance. It's all true. Comey is probably the easiest identifiable single thing though.
 
Regardless of whether its true, its a pretty bad look to say you lost because someone reported honestly on a thing you possibly did
 
I will say this. Hillary's enthusiasm was toilet tier here in Seattle. Whenever I see a vanishingly rare Clinton bunmper sticker, it's almost a shock, and I keep forgetting Tim Kaine was her running mate.

It was a lazy campaign and voters were slacking.

But everything else is still true. Mysoginy, Comey, rust belt avoidance. It's all true. Comey is probably the easiest identifiable single thing though.

Granted I work in Everett and not Seattle proper, but I saw more Trump signs than Hillary. It wasn't a lot of Trump signs but it just shows how little enthusiasm there was out here.
 
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/03/david-axelrod-reacts-hillary-clinton-james-comey-237924

"Jim Comey didn't tell her not to campaign in Wisconsin after the convention," said Axelrod, who served as former president Barack Obama's adviser, on CNN on Wednesday. "Jim Comey didn't say 'don't put any resources into Michigan until the final week of the campaign.'"

Axelrod said Clinton shouldn’t shift responsibility for her loss and should move on.

“She said the words, ‘I’m responsible’, but everything else suggested she doesn’t really feel that way,” he said. “And I don’t think that helps her in the long run.”
 
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