Support NeoGAF

[Crandle]

It sucks that I'm the only person in the good quadrant that ever really posts

I suppose I could post more...but it's a tiny, tiny quadrant, and I'm even more of a crazed extremist than you.

But at least I'm not conservative.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

It's ok, all college kids are liberal to some degree. Some just go on and make 80k+ a year ... and ideals change quickly for them.

Q: What do you call a liberal who makes 6 figures a year?
A: A politician

I live in Canada. My father has always been a defender of leftist/socialist values, and would definitely be a liberal if he lived in the US. He has always made over 100 000$ CAN a year, has been the president of his construction business, has been a millionaire for a long time, and has been giving time to various causes and administration of non-profit organisations. He is also proud to be the living proof of the fallacy of your stupid, selfish opinions.

 

[teh_pwn]

As a real conservative and former republican, I don't care as long as politics aren't discussed outside political classes.

Stuff like this is the least of our problems. The Republican party has been hijacked by neoconservatives that favor large government (yet low taxes), integration of church and state, and interfering with people's personal business (gays, Death and Dying). Even worse, they've also taken control of the government.

I'm a real conservative in that I support small government and fiscal responsibility, the seperation of church and state (just like our deist founding fathers), and the right to privacy/pro-state.

 

[3phemeral]

Just a reminder to myself.

I think it'd be interesting to see what methods you used to quantify political affiliation

 

[capslock]

Nintendo Fans a Right Wing Wacko Lot - Gaming Age Forums

 

[maharg]

I think it'd be interesting to see what methods you used to quantify political affiliation

Those, I believe, were from an entirely voluntary quiz people did and posted their results to a rather huge thread about it about a year ago.

Nintendo Fans a Right Wing Wacko Lot - Gaming Age Forums

I think this only qualifies for american nintendo fans.

 

[Father_Brain]

Those, I believe, were from an entirely voluntary quiz people did and posted their results to a rather huge thread about it about a year ago.


I think this only qualifies for american nintendo fans.

Actually, it was more like two or three months ago.

 

[maharg]

I must be thinking of another time then. Things tend to recycle on gaf.

 

[videogamer]

I found it kind of amusing that DU had about the same kind of distribution, except there weren't any people in the top right. IIRC, there were a couple of people in quadrants II and IV. However, DU seemed to have members that were further left within quadrant III than our quadrant III people.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

"lib·er·al
adj.

1.
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."


Sounds like a good idea for most teachers and professors to be "liberal" to me. In fact, it sounds like part of the job description of an educator. Expanding people's minds, broadening their understanding of the world, making people literate in numerous fields of knowledge and points of view.

So keep up the good work, liberal educators!

Now, if only the Neo-cons would stop stealing the change-minded thunder...

And in other news, insults are now cashable in lieu of witty and intelligent posting about liberal/conservative issue at hand.

 

[AntoneM]

I'm a real conservative in that I support small government and fiscal responsibility, the seperation of church and state (just like our deist founding fathers), and the right to privacy/pro-state.

acually that tends to be more of a Libertarian stance on things.

 

[Father_Brain]

A really good post on this from Ezra Klein (http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2005/03/why_professors_.html):

Over at the Agora, they're running through another round of "why-oh-why are all universities so lefty", this time with an assist from Howard Kurtz:

"[c]ollege faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have imagined." 72 percent of college faculty describe themselves as "liberal," with only 15 percent labeling themself "conservative." 50 percent identified themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans. Disparity at so-called "elite" schools, it seems, is even more pronounced. The report offers percentage views on specific issues as well. The study was conducted by professors at the University of Toronto based on a survey of 1,643 full-time faculty at 183 four-year schools. It was funded by the Randolph Foundation, a right-leaning group.

So in places where intelligent, informed people work, many of them turn out to be liberal. At the places the most intelligent and informed people work, even more of them turn out to be liberal. And so we scratch our heads and wonder about bias? Why?

Political ideology, unlike gender or race, isn't encoded in your genes. You're not born with a certain leaning, ejected from the womb with a partisan affiliation. And while the opinions of your parents are often bequeathed unto the kids, they're not inviolable, as evidence by Kerry's far-greater vote share among the young (if it was just about the parents, each generation should mirror the one before it).

Moreover, glance around the blogosphere, particularly the rightmost end of it. Where, on the left, most everyone is a proud Democrat, the right is fairly littered with libertarians. Indeed, many of the right-leaning academics, when the election forced them to choose, ended up with Kerry rather than Bush. That's not because Dan Drezner or David Adesnik are raging progressives, but because they found the president a bit bankrupt in the thought department.

So really, why fight it? We keep finding that academia swings left, those with post-graduate work overwhelmingly backed Kerry...it's time to stop the head-scratching. Being a libertarian is perfectly fine, as is being an economic conservative and a neocon. But the weird merging of the Christian Right, the Neocons, and Karl Rove's theories that's currently directing the Republican party makes no sense at all. It's an administration where the President believe the "jury's still out" on how the earth was formed and the Senate Majority Leader -- a trained doctor! -- thinks AIDS can be transmitted through tears (to say nothing of the House Majority Leader who couldn't go to Vietnam because those damn minorities had gobbled up all the spots).

And so people who care about their party making sense shy away from Bush. Sometimes they find more elements of their beliefs in him than in the Democrats, and so they pull the lever for the "R", but the more that intellectual coherence matters, the less they make that bargain. And so as you climb up the rungs of academia, where internal coherency and intellectual rigor become values to live and die by, you find fewer Republicans. Simple as that.

Update: In response to Michael and some of the comments, I should clarify that I don't believe liberals are necessarily smarter than conservatives -- I've met some morons and geniuses among both breeds. What I do believe, or am at least considering, is that the heavy consumption of information tilts consumers towards the liberal end of things. To rephrase, you could be brilliant but not particularly informed and carry on with your biases intact. But if you're reading the papers and thinking critically about the massive deficit, the lack of WMD's, the nomination of John Bolton, the insane prioritization of Social Security over Medicare, our president's distaste for reading the news, the fiscal absurdity of his tax cuts, the pro-torture bent of his underlings, and so forth, I think it'd swing you hard left. That's not true for everyone and, crucially, it's not true of all Republican administrations, but it is accurate when restricted to Bush 43.

 

[cvxfreak]

Was there a poll that determined our placement on that chart? I'd love to get on :lol

EDIT: Just read the post above. One year too late. =(

 

[itschris]

Was there a poll that determined our placement on that chart? I'd love to get on :lol

EDIT: Just read the post above. One year too late. =(

More like a month and a half.

Here's the original thread. Here's the test everyone took.

I made the chart; you can get the excel file here if you want to check it out or add yourself to it.

 

[NLB2]

I suppose I could post more...but it's a tiny, tiny quadrant, and I'm even more of a crazed extremist than you.

But at least I'm not conservative.

Yeah dude, fourth quadrant is by far the most liberal quadrant.

 

[cvxfreak]

If someone can change it for me, that'd be great. I can't seem to figure out how to add myself in. Anyhoo...

Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.00

 

[FightyF]

Well...this only bolsters the idea that Liberals are more knowledgable that Conservatives.

Note: knowledgable != intelligent. But it does definately mean less ignorant.

 

[ToxicAdam]

As a real conservative and former republican, I don't care as long as politics aren't discussed outside political classes.

Stuff like this is the least of our problems. The Republican party has been hijacked by neoconservatives that favor large government (yet low taxes), integration of church and state, and interfering with people's personal business (gays, Death and Dying). Even worse, they've also taken control of the government.

I'm a real conservative in that I support small government and fiscal responsibility, the seperation of church and state (just like our deist founding fathers), and the right to privacy/pro-state.

I am pretty close to your thinking. I still have hope in local Republican leadership. The national party is pretty much a mess right now. Hopefully, a moderate can save it in 08.

Its too bad the Democrats served up such crappy candidates .. I may have been swayed to vote foe them.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

The professors are overwhelmingly liberal but for reasons not outlined in this message:

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week

I wonder if there was a moderate option. When it comes to statistics, you got to know the questions. I would be a moderate by my own admission (Libertarian mostly but I share left and right views) but if it was Dem or Rep, that could skew the answers.

with 51 percent saying they rarely or never attend church or synagogue and 31 percent calling themselves regular churchgoers

Thats probably the same percentage as most Americans. I know of some real religious people who can never seem to make it to church.

by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 1984, 39 percent identified themselves as liberal.

Like I said, it all depends on the questions asked.

I never quite understood why a conservative (republican?) would bring attention to this supposed bias. Is it really helping the cause to remind people that the vast majority of academics and intellectuals are left leaning?

No. The professors can teach all they want but its those who donate money to colleges that really own the college. Most colleges cost over a billion a year to maintain and most of the money comes from donations. Most are overwhelmingly conservative. I know that because Michael Moore tried to speak at my college but several million dollars was threatened to be pulled if they didn't get a Republican counterpart. They got the Moore of the right - Coulter.

So the real power rests with them. If they want conservative professors, all they have to do is give the word that they won't be giving the college their usual $10 million and boom, results.

Another point is does it matter? I've argued against many socialist policies with feminists and far leftists in college essays. I always backed up my shit well and came out with As. They'd write that they strongly disagreed with my views but backed it up well. So whats the problem here. The leftist agenda is so thick that its actually pushed me further to the right. The harder left they lean, the more right I become. So keep it up.

The professors and instructors surveyed are, strongly or somewhat, in favor of abortion rights (84 percent); believe homosexuality is acceptable (67 percent); and want more environmental protection "even if it raises prices or costs jobs" (88 percent).

So? So am I. I'm a human rights person first.

The kind of conservatives that exist today are hostile to learning, science and education in general, is it any wonder they don't teach?

Wrong but nice try.

They have no one to answer to, and can be as "out there" as they want

*cough* Ward Churchill *hack*. Damn, must be that Spring flu.

More often than not, the conservative arguments -- especially when coughed up by naive and surly freshman -- are uninformed and largely emotional.

I've heard the same from pseudo hippies. They hate everything that doesn't have to do with taxing the fuck out of the rich and offering subpar health care. I was very far to the left until I met these jackasses. Soon, I was ashamed of being a liberal and the rest was history.

Dear Liberals,
Learn to lose gracefully. You're going to have to get used to it.

Signed,
Your betters.

P.S. Stop trying to teach/reprogram our children.

Then they wonder why they lose but at like three year old temper tantrum throwers at the checkout lane. I don't think they're realizing how bad they're fucking up by using their bitchathon strategy.

Many are too arrogant to assume they're doing anything wrong plus they have their media lapdogs licking their nuts so they're even more out of touch with the people. Yeah, they may be poor but they believe in a higher place and think its a good thing that there's a set of morals enforced. Democrats don't realize this. They paid the price for this in 2004, an election that should have been a Kerry monopoly.

It sucks that I'm the only person in the good quadrant that ever really posts

I'm in that quadrant.

It's ok, all college kids are liberal to some degree. Some just go on and make 80k+ a year ... and ideals change quickly for them.

George Soros and his $7.4 billion must not exist then. Most are conservative because they lose that naive viewpoint of the world. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, if you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not a conservative, you have no brain. I'd believe it.

A really good post on this from Ezra Klein

Republicans right now are just gobbling up everyone who isn't a socialist. That includes all different types of variations. You got moderates (moderates are shunned by Democrats but embraced by Republicans), libertarians, neo-cons, and the religious right. The left is just a number of Marxists and old school Democrats like Byrd who are just there because they've been a Democrat all their lives and see no need to change.

Democrats need a new strategy or they're going to keep losing positions in key areas of government. Its happening since 2002 and shows no signs of stopping, only growth.

 

[Bebpo]

If someone can change it for me, that'd be great. I can't seem to figure out how to add myself in. Anyhoo...

Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.00

While doing that anyone want to add me too?

Economic Left/Right: -0.50
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.00

 

[Macam]

The excerpt Father Brain is right on the money; although my comments here may skew far left and be decidedly anti-Bush, it's that way for one reason in particular: the Bush administration is, to quote from that excerpt, "a bit bankrupt in the thought department". I don't necessarily agree with some of his goals, but the methods in which he approaches them is, in my view, consistently short-sighted, ignorant, and irresponsible. Had a ham sandwich ran against Bush in either election, I would've been hardpressed to decide who would make the better candidate between the two.

The article is ridiculous (and old hat to boot) if it assumes that being "liberal" is a negative; there's a wide spectrum of opinions in that classification that neoconservatives love to throw around, including some more conservative ones.

 

[impirius]

That poll's wording and choice of questions were kinda iffy. I consider myself right of center economically but ended up on the left.

 

[Che]

So this article is telling me that intellectual and cultured people are liberals or/and leftists and don't believe in god? OMGWTF?!?!?! I wonder why that happens. I blame their damn high IQs. Bastards...

 

[Mandark]

Insecure? Not so much. But I've been noticing unfettered liberal view points spewing all over this forum and I wanted to make sure some of that was challenged. It seemed as if people just assumed that everyone here with any intelligence was a liberal. I'd like people to actually consider others for a second before posting something that could be seen as personally offensive to people like us. There was a time when political threads weren't even allowed on this forum. Now they are rampant.. and they are most decidedly skewed if you know what I mean.

If you want to show people that there are smart conservatives, BE A SMART CONSERVATIVE.

Make a nice substantial post defending one of the following:

1) The president's push on Social Security.

2) Banning gay marriage, civil unions, and/or gay sex.

3) The bankruptcy bill passed by the Senate.

4) Rick Santorum's minimum wage proposal.

5) The war in Iraq.

6) The prescription drug benefit.

7) No Child Left Behind.

8) The teaching of creationism.

9) The tax cuts/budget deficit.

10) Extraordinary rendition, torture, and/or the administration's detention policy for Gitmo.


Right now, I'd bet money you won't. You'll just keep kvetching about the snooty liberal hegemony here at GA. You'll never stick around for a real argument where you know you'll get beat. After all, it's fun to play the martyr.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

 

[capslock]

If you want to show people that there are smart conservatives, BE A SMART CONSERVATIVE.

Make a nice substantial post defending one of the following:

1) The president's push on Social Security.

2) Banning gay marriage, civil unions, and/or gay sex.

3) The bankruptcy bill passed by the Senate.

4) Rick Santorum's minimum wage proposal.

5) The war in Iraq.

6) The prescription drug benefit.

7) No Child Left Behind.

8) The teaching of creationism.

9) The tax cuts/budget deficit.

10) Extraordinary rendition, torture, and/or the administration's detention policy for Gitmo.


Right now, I'd bet money you won't. You'll just keep kvetching about the snooty liberal hegemony here at GA. You'll never stick around for a real argument where you know you'll get beat. After all, it's fun to play the martyr.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Here, I will make an attempt:

1. It is desired by the great leader.

2. The sanctity of marriage is something that is defined by the bible and inculcated into our society, changing its definition from that of it being between a man and a woman will mean societal disintegration.

3. Don't know much about that.

4. Well, it's actually good for employment because it helps small businesses!!!

5. Because Saddam has weapons of mass destruction...no wait, HE was the weapon of mass destruction....no wait because he violated UN resolutions....no wait....he destroyed the UN with a weapon of mass destruction.....ummm....will have to get back to you on that one....

6. Well, it was Play a Liberal day at the Oval Office.

7. The What? What are you talking about?

8. Get it right, it's "Intelligent Design", not "creationism".

9. It's the people's money, duh!!! And tone way to honour those dead from the 9/11 attacks is to spend your tax rebate dollars at the mall, or put a down payment on that Explorer with 5 mpg.

10. Alberto told me it was okay.

 

[soundwave05]

Regardless of a Republican or Democratic adminstration, the country (and the world) will continue to get progressively more liberal as the 21st century unfolds.

It is inevitable as technology, our understanding of science/universe, etc. increases.

 

[Zaptruder]

You say that, but the beginning of the 21st century has seen a hypershift towards crazed conservatism... where logic is thrashed by appeals to emotion. That's what liberals lack. We need more outspoken people rather than appeals to logic; our logic will back itself with the people looking for it, but to the people looking for hyperbole, we're just not catering!

 

[Fresh Prince]

Anyone who is cunning\smart realises that you need to keep the masses dumb. That's why Libruls should offer the earth to Jesus and say that Jesus was really a hippie\communist.

 

[soundwave05]

You say that, but the beginning of the 21st century has seen a hypershift towards crazed conservatism... where logic is thrashed by appeals to emotion. That's what liberals lack. We need more outspoken people rather than appeals to logic; our logic will back itself with the people looking for it, but to the people looking for hyperbole, we're just not catering!

Temporary.

In the bigger picture things will change, because change is the only constant in the world, and the flows against conservatism as a philosophy as a whole.

Conservatives/relgious zealots of the 50s would label a lot of so-called conservatives down right liberal.

It will happen because all instutituions (society, religion, government, corporate) will be forced to accomodate the advances humanity makes in terms of technology, science, etc.

 

[gofreak]

"lib·er·al
adj.

1.
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."


Sounds like a good idea for most teachers and professors to be "liberal" to me.

Heh, was about to say this myself. Totally agree. How's it surprising that academics are "liberal"? Their job requires an open mind, imo.

Temporary.

In the bigger picture things will change, because change is the only constant in the world, and the flows against conservatism as a philosophy as a whole.

And I agree with this too! Political compasses are always relative, and the way things are going, it's the definiton of conservative that is being constantly shifted. "Liberals" are just ahead of the game

 

[maharg]

Speaking of political position being correlated to the environment and context of a job, I wonder if the US military, especially career military, skews conservative. I can't decide which would be a more sinister conspiracy...

And I find it funny that the best example of an abuse of tenure conservatives seem to be able to come up with is someone expressing a decidedly non-liberal viewpoint (inherant inequality of gender). Do you really want to get rid of something that is supposedly protecting a brave crusader against the liberal PC agenda?

Edit: oh sorry, I forgot. You're all so compassionate now. Guess that's a nice way of saying we won the PC battle.

 

[Pudding Tame]

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, if you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not a conservative, you have no brain.

Just wondering, did Churchill say that before or after FDR and Truman saved his country and rebuilt Western Europe?

 

[carbonbased]

It sucks that I'm the only person in the good quadrant that ever really posts

Fight the power!

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Regardless of a Republican or Democratic adminstration, the country (and the world) will continue to get progressively more liberal as the 21st century unfolds

I doubt it. Liberalism took a huge blow with the death of Communism. China is integrating more and more capitalism to their economy. France has abandoned the limit of hours they can work. Many European nations have stagnated economically since 9/11 and economists there are worried about the Euro's future. Norway is reconsidering its generous welfare practices.

Sounds to me like the world isn't becoming more liberal. Maybe socially but economically, its heading down the conservative road. Which is good, if people actually like a prosperous economy.

Just wondering, did Churchill say that before or after FDR and Truman saved his country and rebuilt Western Europe?

Not sure. I just agree with what he said. Liberalism sounds ideal but when in practice, it has more drawbacks then benefits.

- Subpar health care
- Economy will stagnate because taxation prevents any actual growth.
- Temporarily ease unemployment but again, is stunted by heavy taxation from businesses. Unemployment rates are barely better in Europe than the US.
- Government controls people's lives

 

[Outdoor Miner]

- Subpar health care
- Economy will stagnate because taxation prevents any actual growth.
- Temporarily ease unemployment but again, is stunted by heavy taxation from businesses. Unemployment rates are barely better in Europe than the US.
- Government controls people's lives

:lol

You seem to be doing a great job at describing the US currently.

 

[McLesterolBeast]

If there's one thing more sickening than a self described conservative bitching about left wing biases in the academic world, it's a self described liberal stroking their ego with the belief that a moderate relationship between academic success and "left" political views confirms their own superior intelligence.

 

[soundwave05]

I don't believe the Soviet Union was ideologically a liberal society.

Economy is one thing, but in terms of society, I think the world is headed to becoming vastly more liberal and that includes China.

But I think the changes for cilivilization in the 21st century are going to be immense, just as the ones in the 20th century were.

 

[Azih]

the only reason universities are such a bastion to your views is that they can only apply in theory and are not meant for the practical world

See anyone who advances this argument has an extremely myopic world view that limits the 'practical world' to the current state of the U.S. Ignoring for example the Scandinavian countries.

They got highest tax rates in the world, and the best quality of life and the best productivity per hour worked.

Things that should make you go HMMMM.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, if you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not a conservative, you have no brain.

That Churchill quote gets thrown around a lot, but it's completely bogus. See: http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=112

...There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! and would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

If you want to show people that there are smart conservatives, BE A SMART CONSERVATIVE.

Make a nice substantial post defending one of the following:

1) The president's push on Social Security.

2) Banning gay marriage, civil unions, and/or gay sex.

3) The bankruptcy bill passed by the Senate.

4) Rick Santorum's minimum wage proposal.

5) The war in Iraq.

6) The prescription drug benefit.

7) No Child Left Behind.

8) The teaching of creationism.

9) The tax cuts/budget deficit.

10) Extraordinary rendition, torture, and/or the administration's detention policy for Gitmo.


Right now, I'd bet money you won't. You'll just keep kvetching about the snooty liberal hegemony here at GA. You'll never stick around for a real argument where you know you'll get beat. After all, it's fun to play the martyr.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Strawman; being of conservative mindset doesn't mean you have to swear to these tenements any more than being flagged liberal means you have to ad hoc against them.

 

[Azih]

There's 10 points in a variety of different fields there though. Surely you can find ONE that you agree with? Take the Mandark challenge!

 

[Fresh Prince]

If there's one thing more sickening than a self described conservative bitching about left wing biases in the academic world, it's a self described liberal stroking their ego with the belief that a moderate relationship between academic success and "left" political views confirms their own superior intelligence.

This really needs to be said. We're the ones bitching on the Internet doing jack shit. The world is going to become very interesting in the next few years. Longer hours, less pay, less wealth distribution the emergence of China and India. Globalisation was touted as the new saviour but it seems more likely that isolationism spreads conservatives\capatilists will be caught out as the hypocrites they are. Eventually China will have enough power to dictate the terms if it hasn't done so already.

Shit I worked for 2 months in what I'd term a 'career job' yet I'm becoming more capatilistic\conservative just thinking about my future. I want to be my own boss, my own man and have people beneath me shovelling the shit. :\

 

[Mandark]

Strawman; being of conservative mindset doesn't mean you have to swear to these tenements any more than being flagged liberal means you have to ad hoc against them.

Cowardly lion; being Iceman means that you've outed yourself as creationist, anti-Social Security, and pro-Alan Keyes. Further, you can not be a conservative Republican, whine about being outnumbered, then refuse to substantially defend even one of this administration's major policies.

 

[FightyF]

If there's one thing more sickening than a self described conservative bitching about left wing biases in the academic world, it's a self described liberal stroking their ego with the belief that a moderate relationship between academic success and "left" political views confirms their own superior intelligence.

That would be sickening...if that actually existed.

 

[Boogie9IGN]

"College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot"

..Megaton?

And yes, this is extremely true in Cali. See: Berkeley