SEC! SEC! SEC! etc.
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College Football 2013 |Week 8| The best X-loss teams in the nation
- Thread starter timetokill
- Start date
SEC! SEC! SEC! etc.
GodfatherX
Member
lol at the associated press, what a complete fucking sham. After an overall terrible weekend for the SEC top tier, they went into panic mode and made ridiculous moves for auburn and mizzou to ensure their SEC qouta
we ended up about where i was hoping, but with all the other losses figured it might have hurt us more
we ended up about where i was hoping, but with all the other losses figured it might have hurt us more
They played a much harder schedule (Miami/Vtech/a good BCU were still in the Big East), plus much harder out of conference games. Schiano's schedules included a ton of patsies for out of conference.
Mind you they were decent, they hovered around a .500 winning percentage until the complete cluster-fuck that was Shea, that just torpedoed the reputation of the program.
Rutgers was also paralyzed by having a very small time AD (former golf coach).
Sirpopopop
Member
1. Rutgers has only been playing football at a relatively high level since the late 1970s. Before that it was the equivalent of D1AA. The first few coaches we had during this rise up were guys like Dick Anderson & Doug Graber. They were able to recruit at similar levels to Schiano and at times post similar records.
They both petered out because the school's athletic department was incredibly incompetent in those days. Our AD was good at ensuring that students failed out rather than made their way through school.
Schiano gets credit for helping to rebuild the academic department for football players. Otherwise, he was a mediocre coach who simply won because he was able to maul over most of the opponents he faced with better talent.
Schiano's bowl success is a product of the amount of bowls increasing by a large amount in the BCS era.
Historically relevant means jack shit. Syracuse was historically relevant. Where are they now? Arkansas can claim historical relevance. Where are they now?
Nowhere. It's all about your recruiting base.
Schools with no recruiting base eventually lose out to those that do. Look at the Top 10. Every one of those schools is located in an area with a decent recruiting base with the exception of Missouri. Even with Missouri, it's located in a state that has a decent amount of talent.
There are the occasional programs like Kansas State & West Virginia that can win in nowhere land. However, success can be fleeting at those institutions.
Simply put, you don't realize how easy it is to actually win at Rutgers.
The closest possible recruiting competition is Maryland & Penn State. That gives you a good 200+ mile radius with which to recruit in. You have Delaware, NYC, eastern PA, and New Jersey to mine for talent. Even a relatively clueless guy like Kyle Flood is able to luck his way into decent recruiting classes by virtue of location.
Location is a good 50-60% of the game, and Rutgers has it better than most every school out there. You don't accept mediocrity when you have:
1. A nice home base to recruit from.
2. The only school that can take its recruits to New York City for a recruiting trip.
If you can't do better than mediocrity with that in your arsenal, you just aren't trying.
peteykirch
Member
I disagree.
You have to realize that until maybe 7-8 years ago pretty much anyone was able to come into NJ and take what they want. Go back to Rivals and look at the NJ Top 30 and see how many would end up at BC, PSU, Cuse, Virginia, ND, OSU, and Michigan.
Yes, there is a hotbed of talent in NJ so there are enough players for Rutgers to be good, but you have to realize this;
Only now, are HS Seniors able to say the Rutgers they know of have been putting up winning seasons, going to bowl games, and not being a complete disgrace.
Also some kids will look to go out of state no matter what. Some kids just want to get away.
Also the hot bed of talent in NJ is in the Private Catholic schools which ND pretty much first crack at.
I do agree with you on the one fact; if Doug Graber had the academic and university support Schiano had Rutgers would've been in a better place much sooner and the Terry Shea failure never would've happened.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Michigan can still go in and take what we want.
Pretty sure you are sloppy seconds to that coach in Ohio.
Noah Brown/Curtis Samuel (and probably Thomas Holley) le sigh.
The BCS Countdown show airs on ESPN at 8:30pm.
Dunno if it gets released any earlier
GoldenEye 007
Member
Actually, you know what? Keep the American champ ranked lower.
All that means is one of NIU/Fresno will be ranked ahead of at least one AQ champ and will get an autobid to a BCS game also. Assuming at least one of them keeps winning and they are able to move up to at least #16.
That way, since the Big XII isn't likely to send anyone to the MNC, that champ will get stuck with NIU/Fresno since Fiesta has last pick in at-large this year.
Then the American champ will get bumped to either Orange or most likely Sugar.
All that means is one of NIU/Fresno will be ranked ahead of at least one AQ champ and will get an autobid to a BCS game also. Assuming at least one of them keeps winning and they are able to move up to at least #16.
That way, since the Big XII isn't likely to send anyone to the MNC, that champ will get stuck with NIU/Fresno since Fiesta has last pick in at-large this year.
Then the American champ will get bumped to either Orange or most likely Sugar.
It usually finds its way online a few minutes before the show. But the definitive source is the BCS Countdown show at 8:30.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
We haven't been anyone's sloppy seconds recruiting these last few years.
Just saying Maurice Clarett's U haul from NJ/NYC is much better than Michigans. Eli Apple/Curtis Samuel/Noah Brown and probably Thomas Holley >>>>> Jabrill Peppers (Best Player in the list but ... he's a Diva) and Bushnell-Beatty (he didn't even have an offer from Rutgers, he's a huge project).
perfectchaos007
Member
BCS chaos! That has happened to the Big XII before. Remember when Oklahoma played U-Conn a couple years ago in a BCS bowl? What a joke of a selection, but it finally gave "Big Game Bob" a BCS win that was basically solidified by the selection comittee
chicko1983
Member
chicko1983 said:
I almost picked this correct. My CFB knowledge is getting better. I am watching 3-4 matches a week now though.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
People always talk shit about the SEC being overrated, but it seems genuine this time around. This is a different feeling. Balance of power is rumbling and grumbling. And right in time for the new playoff and more realignment. Interesting times ahead.
This. This right here. A+ post.
Sirpopopop
Member
7-8 years ago was the Schiano era. I'm arguing that Schiano's work at Rutgers was overrated.You're essentially agreeing with me here. His recruiting wasn't much better than Graber (who was also able to pick up good talent from New Jersey. See: Brian Sheridan).
Schiano had subpar recruiters until he got Hafley & Angelicho. Once he got them, he finally had what could be considered a BCS-quality recruiting staff. Good recruiting classes followed.
Until Hafley & Angelicho came to Rutgers, there never were the types of coaches who could be truly great or even decent recruiters. It's a major issue when you're bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I don't think the quality of your play has much, if any relevance, to recruiting rankings - look at Kentucky for example. It's all about playing your advantages. Some coaches do a good job. Other coaches are the Rutgers recruiting staff
This is everywhere. ND gets first dibs at most any Catholic school player. Every state is going to have players that want to leave.
There is still enough talent in New Jersey to go around. You only need around 3 of the Top 10 every year to do well. That should be easily doable for any competent coaching staff.
Pluck one or two top 10 types out of state, and then finish your class out with all the 3-star talent that you get first dibs on because you see them before everyone else even knows they exist.
I'm not expecting a national championship team. I do expect Rutgers should be able to crack the Top 25 on a regular basis. Talent around the region dictates that should be the expectation.
Sirpopopop
Member
I remember how you guys got Chris Muller & Kyle George (granted he was a scrub late offer for you guys, who didn't turn out) to commit to you guys.
Oh wait...
Didn't you notice how 7-10 teams in front of Mizzou (Miami and Baylor as well) all lost at the same time. Of course they'll move up. Which of the 3 did better this weekend? 19 point win over a 4-2 team, a 4 point win (with 16 seconds left) over a 1-4 team, or a blowout on a 1-4 team.
Whatever order those 3 were going to be, they were going to be #5, 6 and 7, unless you think a 1 loss Stanford should go in front of any of those teams.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It's been genuine the last few years, the media is just really slow to catch on. Maybe by the end of the season they'll get it, or maybe they already do and they just need something to prop up for marketing.
peteykirch
Member
7-8 years wasn't the start of the Greg era. He was there since '00. The difference was by 04-05 things started to change hence by 7-8 year estimate of when things started to click.
Greg was notoriously hard to work for, and pretty much the only two stalwarts of the staff were Joe Susan who left to be the HC at Bucknell, and Flood. There wasn't much continuity.
Pretty much taking the entire PITT staff helped out Greg and the recruiting, but there were still a lot of question marks in terms of players they took a chance on and didn't.
The most notorious had to be Ray Graham who pretty much took all his game film to Rutgers and pleaded with the Coaching Staff to give him a look, but they refused.
I think the biggest underlying issue has been Flood and his inability to strike gold with the OL like he did from 05-07. So many wasted recruiting classes on projects that never saw the field or were moved to DL.
I will say though on this staff I trust Ron Prince in terms of being a recruiter and the same goes for Paganos.
I really hope if/when Greg gets canned at Tampa, Hafley and Angelicho come back to Rutgers....then again I'm holding out hope that if the Flood HC experiment doesn't work Rutgers tries to make a push for Bob Diaco.
I agree with you that with NJ there is enough talent if you take 3/10 of the Top 10, and a couple Top 5 kids from PA/NY/MD/DE/etc and just fill out the class with 3 stars to be more than competitive. I think the issue wasn't so much the recruiting it was the fact Greg was a really average to poor gameday coach.
I don't know. I respect Bama and they deserve to be one until they are knocked off. But I really think Oregon and FSU are 1b and 1c right now.
ConfusingJazz
Member
The SEC has always been top heavy, and the SEC East hasn't been elite since 2009.
Well, except last year when somehow Georgia, Florida and South Carolina didn't shit the bed and went 34-6.
Every conference is always top heavy. SEC East has a lot of injuries. Shit happens.
dont call it a comeback
Banned
Just realized Ohio State is going to go to their 10th BCS bowl this year.
If they somehow sneak there way into and win the title game, they have to be considered the best team in the BCS era I'd think.
If they somehow sneak there way into and win the title game, they have to be considered the best team in the BCS era I'd think.
Maybe they'll get over .500 this year in Winning % in BCS games!
Ohio State will never be considered to be the "best team in the BCS era" because they are too well known as a team that shits the bed in the big games, especially when facing the SEC.
dont call it a comeback
Banned
huh? They are 6-3....well technically 5-3 since the Arkansas win was taken away. Even if they lose they will have a winning record in BCS games.
This post kind of proves that a lot of the hate Ohio State gets isn't very rational or based on truth whatsoever.
Someone's wrong. Delany's hand jobber up there said this will be OSU's 10th BCS game.
bucknuticus
Member
Ahhh, right on.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Shitting the bed in a National Championship game twice isn't illogical.
I mean, congrats, you aren't as big as chokers as Oklahoma?
dont call it a comeback
Banned
Funny how one game can change that in an instance. IF they beat Alabama (with the way Alabama has looked for the most the season this seems very possible) there loss 6 years ago wont mean much. Looking at the entire body of work, they would have been the most impressive during the BCS era.
Their last two games played against SEC teams, they beat Arkansas (which was retroactively taken away) and then lost by 7 against florida due to the special teams in a meaningless game with an interim head coach.
Why do people cite games played with an entire different coaching staff, different type of recruits and that occurred half a decade ago as a reason today's team can't compete? Seems completely void of any sort of logic and based on blind hate for a program that is constantly toward the top of the rankings.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
You were the one who brought Tressell's teams into the discussion. You can't duck them or marginalize them when it suits you.
You know it's coming.
dont call it a comeback
Banned
Which brings me to another point completely. If losses by Ohio State that occurred over 5 years ago matter today , why is everyone ignoring the fact Ohio State beat Oregon in 2010? Does that game not matter at all because Ohio State won? If Alabama is #1 by default and all these SEC teams jump into the Top 10 based on conference success that long ago, why isn't Oregon ranked behind Ohio State based on a game that happened just 3 years ago?
The double standards when it comes to how these teams are pegged is absolutely hilarious.
The double standards when it comes to how these teams are pegged is absolutely hilarious.
Because beating Oregon in a BCS bowl is like beating Oklahoma.
Again, you were the one who brought Tressell's teams into it. Don't act all pissy when the rest of us bring up the low parts of his tenure.
ConfusingJazz
Member
That wasn't your original argument. You're original argument is that if they win the MNC, they are the best of the BCS era, completely ignoring the fact that
A) The lost two national championship games, one in which they just shit the bed (sorry, they didn't shit the bed against LSU, but they did against Florida)
B) Alabama already has three MNCs, one more than Ohio State can possibly win in the BCS era.
Retroactively giving OSUn a loss for not going to a BCS game last season while undefeated, and for PI against Miami in "whatever year that was when it happened"
Maybe if Alabama had a winning score average of 50.7 to 9.7, instead of 40.7 to 9.7, then Alabama could be considered Elite again.
Maybe if Alabama had a winning score average of 50.7 to 9.7, instead of 40.7 to 9.7, then Alabama could be considered Elite again.
GoldenEye 007
Member
That PI call in the MNC was BS, though.