How the hell do you even do that to a book.
Like, what.
I'm pretty sure you can't do that to a book without getting it wet
In which case, why was he reading it in water?
As I said. It is water damaged and then also bent. Not sure which happened first.
As I said. It is water damaged and then also bent. Not sure which happened first.
So thoughts on the finale of Multiversity, spoilers because obviously:
So this is why I knew the ending was gonna leave people disappointed, it's very much in line with how he ended his Batman run, by putting all the toys back in the box and not having a true resolution. It is very much a statement on the superhero industry. Basically it doesn't matter how many alternate superheroes Nix is able to assemble to fight the Gentry, they will always be there. He pretty much HAD to put the toys back in the box and leave it open ended because to do otherwise would be saying that the era of similarly themed/house style work for hire comics was over. Ultimately the Gentry (and Ultraa) represented the genericization of corporate comics, it goes back to Ultra Comics, the only way the heroes truly win is if you stop reading the comics. There will always be another crisis, another reboot, and despite minor deviations here and there the status quo will be forever maintained because that's how you do business. Multiversity was both a love letter to the creativity of the superhero genre and an indictment of the current corporate comics culture. Since it's Morrison Nix gets his happy ending, but because of the nature of the beast the struggle against comic gentrification will always be there.
Just my two cents.
I'm gonna try and reformulate my thoughts on The Multiversity, with some added stuff.
There's a big reveal at the end of Multiversity #2, and it's when you see The Empty Hand in full. On his forehead, there's the same logo that's on Ultra Comics' chest. And we know from Ultra Comics -the comic itself, not the character of the same name, try and keep up- that You are Ultra Comics. You are the Empty Hand. You're the Oblivion Machine.
There's multiple signs pointing to that, starting with the most obious one : the very thing giving the entire comic its forward momentum, in a very concrete sense, is your hand. And since it's turning a page, or sliding it off the iPad screen, it's not holding anything. It's empty. Literally. It's your empty hand causing all of this.
Less obvious, but it was the thing that illuminated it for me, from Pax Americana : that final moment, in the interrogation room, when the Peacemaker literally points at You when asked who he's trying to save the world from. It's a panel that works on multiple levels, like much of Pax.
(Which, by the way, I have a completely new interpretation on now: I think Earth-4 is not the world least corrupted by the Gentry, but in fact the exact opposite. It's where the Gentry's victory is the most total.)
(While we're on the topic of Pax, fun link : the massless time-symmetrical boson Captain Atom is referring to is page 12 and 13. Page 12 of Ultra Comics is when Ultra Comics comes alive. It's not just the godly spread blending three timelines. NEAT!)
But so, the Gentry: they work for the Empty Hand. So, for You. That's the Big Idea: they're not a group, as much as they are a metaphor for a process. And that process is consuming stories, turning them into ideas, remaking them through your own interpretation of facts, MUCH LIKE WHAT I AM DOING RIGHT NOW. You can see individual members of the Gentry as aspects of that process, like Intellectron, breaking down stories into something far smaller, points about fiction itself, pure ideas.
It's an entirely destructive process, as shown by the reveal of Multiverse-2's demise, and by the end of Ultra Comics. When you close a book, when you put it down, you kill that universe, if only until you pick it back up again. It's a big and ugly Oblivion Machine. But, in the same way Intellectron is defeated by virtue of being a character in Ultra Comics, the Gentry and the Empty Hand bring about their own destruction.
Because through the destructive process that is reading, we give the stories power, we let them become something bigger, something inspiring, heroic, greater than ourselves. Through stories, we created bad, to have it defeated by good. As repeated often in the series : The Door Has One Side, And Opens Both Ways.
The curse of Ultra Comics, the thing that made every character reading it go mad, is that it makes that whole idea transparent. It shows your potential as creator and destroyer, and it's a fucking lot to handle: The Atom's spirits get shattered, Alexis Luthor goes power-mad, Captain Atom leaves the universe, to name examples.
In the end, Nix gets the rent money because we need him to. Because the process is always going to perpetuate itself, which is what's wonderful about it. That's what The Multiversity is about, how we make the world run on stories. It's literally the same thing he's said before, but bigger, all-encompassing, taking the entire history of DC to do so.
Eh...maybe in such a way that it doesn't break the illusion of the story being a genuine thing, which of course is a subjective matter. I dislike ever saying something will never work, because I try to keep as open a mind as possible.I personally agree with what you are saying about Flex Mentallo. I read it recently and posted impressions in this thread that it didn't click with me.
But do you feel that a narration of that type will never work? I feel that it can actually be done well and has been.
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what if instead of reading the trade while using the bathroom they did so while taking a bath? Does the book smell like soap? You should sniff it.
Guys. I think it's time for another DC / Marvel crossover event. Amalgam 2.0. Let's bring back Dark Claw! A Harley / [marvel hero here] mash up!
Just wanted to say I really like your posts on Multiversity, tim. I fully agree with your interpretation on the last issue almost word for word.Pax America thoughts for Veelk:
So Pax is a pretty fascinating comic for me, conceptually and in practice it is absolutely brilliant and unlike some of the other Multiversity one shots I don't see any way it could ever work as an on going series. It's obviously a reaction to Miller and Moore and the bits of dark n gritty they introduced and popularized into modern comics. This should surprise no one really because Morrison has very publically decried those themes, it's probably his magnum opus in that regards honestly. As a comic story it's just so perfectly conceived and executed, Morrison and Quitely created a comic that can literally be read forwards and backwards to tell it's story (when reading it in reverse, the panels depicting the president's assassination through to the cover of the comic are absolutely perfect). I don't think it's even important whether or not Algorithm 8 works or not, you can pretty easily make a case that it's simply a manifestation of the President's guilt over killing his father as a child. I think it's a more interesting story if you consider that Atom knows this plan will fail, but goes through with it any way simply because that's the way it has to be. He can see their origins and he can see their endings, but he never makes a case for being able to change those beginnings or endings. The door may open both ways, but only if Atom wants to or believes it's the way things were always going to. I've been toying with the idea that nothing Atom tells the president is actually in reference to what is happening in their reality, but rather broader statements about the multiversal crisis. In the end the door did open both ways for Nix and company, and that's how they wereWith all that said, Thunderworld was my favorite issue of the lot, because it was just so pitch perfect.able to stave off the attempts of the Gentry and see the dark version of Ultraa on his throne with the empty hand.
If you're not a fan of Morrison already, I don't see this as being the book to flip the switch for you. Something smaller in scope like We3 or Joe the Barbarian might be better starting points, they're undeniably Morrison, but a bit easier to digest and dive into.
Quoting for a new page because holy shit guys, thanks.
How does Nix tie into being a character in Earth Prime but also into the hero struggle. In Final Crisis, Nix was a monitor who was outcast to Earth Prime. In Multiversity, he is that Earth Prime outcast dreaming about being that last monitor in this huge story. I'm trying to piece the meanings of that together.
Hah good choiceDeadpool
Nix is our avatar in the story, ultimately we are all the Monitor and Superjudge of the stories we read and the fictions we create about them in our heads. Nix taking on the Gentry and becoming corrupted is the reader becoming too involved in the minutiae of the stories and looking for meaning then is there. He gets his $800 and his happy ending, because that's what we all want, our own happy endings and whatever our own $800 struggle may be. We may be the God/Devils and keepers of the Oblivion Machine, but we are also observers and Monitors. Every week we come in here and judge the stuff we read and ultimately decide it's fate--does it succumb to gentrification and become just another book on our lists, or does it stave off that through creativity and sheer force of will? We are Nix Uotan,
^we need Deadpool and Deathstroke going against each other!
Just wanted to say I really like your posts on Multiversity, tim. I fully agree with your interpretation on the last issue almost word for word.
Not quite sure what my favorite issue was though. I really loved Thunderworld just because I'm a sucker for those kind of happy-go-lucky golden-agey stories and their color palettes. Ultra Comics was just a really fun read as well and Guidebook was way better than I ever imagined it to be. Beyond that it's all kinda up in the air.
Nix is our avatar in the story, ultimately we are all the Monitor and Superjudge of the stories we read and the fictions we create about them in our heads. Nix taking on the Gentry and becoming corrupted is the reader becoming too involved in the minutiae of the stories and looking for meaning then is there. He gets his $800 and his happy ending, because that's what we all want, our own happy endings and whatever our own $800 struggle may be. We may be the God/Devils and keepers of the Oblivion Machine, but we are also observers and Monitors. Every week we come in here and judge the stuff we read and ultimately decide it's fate--does it succumb to gentrification and become just another book on our lists, or does it stave off that through creativity and sheer force of will? We are Nix Uotan,
Fantastic! This is what makes it better for me was figuring out who Nix is. I had suspicions he was us but nothing positive. What is the line of the rent collector at the end? Something about not making excuses. My comics are boxed up.
-stares at your avatar-
o.o ...should I ask?
The biggest clue as to the real meaning of what we were all reading is the last bit of narration from Harbinger on the final page: "And then it was continued thereafter. Unto all eternity." The story will always go on.
Eh...maybe in such a way that it doesn't break the illusion of the story being a genuine thing, which of course is a subjective matter. I dislike ever saying something will never work, because I try to keep as open a mind as possible.
For me, the key point has to be that the story is just authentic. It can't turn into a lecture on anything. I guess the closest example would be avatar the last airbender with various messages you could extrapolate, but it never went up to you and straight up said "War is wrong!" or anything. The closest is the katara episode on revenge, and I'd easily argue that's one of the weaker episodes. It was always mostly concerned with creating real characters.
Its honestly a bigger problem with Morrison because he's so loud about his beliefs. If the creators keep quiet, it's harder to assume anything about them through their work, which I try not to take as an indication of their personal beliefs.
As for All Star Superrman....*sigh*, Look I really don't want to go into this right now, because it'd take up as much text as Pax to explain fully. And I'd probably have to reread it, because I haven't read it in a year or more. But it depicts a world that, for lack of a better phrase, I don't believe in. The thing I remember most about is how absurdly ineffective those who opposed Superman were, particularly lex luthor, and I don't mean necessarily in power. Any time Luthor tried to justify his hatred, the flaws of his arguments were as blatant as a brick to the face. He remarks about how men who actually want to be superman draw their eyebrows unconciously like his, he does it a few panels later, all without any self awareness of what it implies about him. Compare that to Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, where Luthor made compelling and articulate arguments for his being against man of steel. We got a strong sense of interiority on the character, able to legitimately see his viewpoint. Luthor came across as a raving idiot while superman is just the guy pinching the top of his nose, trying to be the adult in the situation with the manchild. All of Superman's opponents had ineffective philosophies. Atlas and the other dude were shallow jerks that wanted to bang lois, the kryptonians admitted they were wrong like an after school special, and I know I keep coming back to this point, none of the characters felt like real people. The world was one which was designed to have evil be defeated by good, constantly and easily, without any casualties. I know people died in ASS, but I felt like it's only on the allowance of superman that it happens. Pa Kent died not because there was no way to save him, but because Superman allowed it. It's kind of why that page with the suicidal girl falls flat to me. There is no way that this world would allow her to die. She could have jumped, hit the ground, and I'd sooner believe that it would spontaneously turn into marshmellows that save her than believe that she would have died on impact. Somehow, someway, she was going to live and get better, no matter what. That's just the way this world works and it's not a world I can believe in, no matter how hard I try. So I can't get any warm and fuzzy feels from it. It's too fake. I don't know if it necessarily was preaching at me, but it was a work of solid idealism to the extent that I could not accept.
And for the record, I'd like to emphasize again that I haven't read ASS in forever. And I've actually experienced a period of artistic growth in the last two years, where my values of what is good writing have shifted. Maybe if I reread ASS, I'd get a different reading of it. But the above is a fraction of the few things I do remember about my experience reading it.
?
Oh, so you mean the fire burns forever?
Gave my copy of superior foes to one of my new Co workers. Thought it would be fine. Got it back today. It was left in my bag like this.
Seems my new Co workers are just as bad as my last co workers. Won't happen me again.
Fuck sake.
Star Wars ep 7 is the real hype for me. Seeing avengers feels more like an obligationAvengers was good bros but damned if it doesn't mean I'm free of anything to get hyped about now
besides arkham knight and stuff... but ain't no hype like avengers hype
Star Wars ep 7 is the real hype for me. Seeing avengers feels more like an obligation
AoU was definitely better than Avengers. I kind of agree withthe complaints about Ultron being too jokey. It didn't ruin the movie but it felt too Whedony and I like Whedon. Also legit shook at QS.
Star Wars ep 7 is the real hype for me. Seeing avengers feels more like an obligation
I can't fuck with anything SW outside the EU and nothing about EP7 screams promising to me. I'll see who ends up with 8 and 9, but Rian Johnson's Star Wars sounds more visually and story-interesting than JJ Abrams'.
I can't fuck with anything SW outside the EU and nothing about EP7 screams promising to me. I'll see who ends up with 8 and 9, but Rian Johnson's Star Wars sounds more visually and story-interesting than JJ Abrams'.
Oh. I'm not even a Star Trek guy and Star Trek was so bad it made me hate Chris Pine who I already disliked for some reason. And JJ Abrams. I haven't seen enough other Abrams work to REALLY judge, but that was just such a butchery that I can't sanction him ruining two sci-fi franchises.
And yes, Looper was awesome visually with its 80s sci-fi throwback look. Would be great fit for Star Trek.
I'll be honest though I've only seen three out of the six Star Wars movies 'cause my interest in the series is mostly relegated to the games, some comics... mostly the games..
I definitely liked Looper.
But as to Star Trek, I was never what would qualify as a Trekkie, but I've watched my fair share of late-night Next Generation and Deep Space Nine reruns. I was always more of a Star Wars guy, though, and JJ Abrams approach made Star Trek more appealing to me in that regard.
I don't like being preached to. It doesn't matter the message. I just don't think that's what art is for. If that's just Morrison trying to preach Nihilism to me instead of Idealism, then it'll probably get the same reaction. If you have comics where you feel Morrison is just genuinely trying to depict the nature of life in someway, you can recommend me that.
Officer Downe is insane. Chris Burnham is sooooo good at drawing ultraviolence, especially dismemberment and eyes popping out of skulls
I really wish I could tell you (I really do) but I don't remember anything about it, it's been a loooong time since I read it. I just remember it being a drag. The last time it was brought up here I think most of us agreed that we didn't like it.
Pick-up post from April, a lot of reading to do.
Gave my copy of superior foes to one of my new Co workers. Thought it would be fine. Got it back today. It was left in my bag like this.
Seems my new Co workers are just as bad as my last co workers. Won't happen me again.
Fuck sake.
Holy shit guys. Ultron was a fucking masterpiece of awesome comic movies. I can't even. Perfectly and organically balancing new characters in a way that made x men movies look like Times Square shots in 80s movies. And so delightfully funny, so many incredible action sequences, and it had so many moments that could resonate with fans but weren't completely dull or impenetrable to the non-reader. Textbook. Just perfection.
Holy shit guys. Ultron was a fucking masterpiece of awesome comic movies. I can't even. Perfectly and organically balancing new characters in a way that made x men movies look like Times Square shots in 80s movies. And so delightfully funny, so many incredible action sequences, and it had so many moments that could resonate with fans but weren't completely dull or impenetrable to the non-reader. Textbook. Just perfection.
I thought there were too many jokes throughout the movie.
I thought there were too many jokes throughout the movie.
Naaaah. Gotta lighten things up man. Can't have everything being all gloom-and-doom through the whole movie.
I didn't feel that way. They were so organically done and fun. Loved the whole tone. The MCU is just such a fucking blast. I'm so glad GOTG wasn't a flash in the pan. That kind of approach, right hand throwing a punch, left arm ribbing your buddy, like "yeah, this is all a bit ridiculous, huh. Let's go save the world," is what I've loved about Marvel since I was in the fourth grade. It's what Remender is so fantastic at too. The opening scene in Rage is all that tone distilled into perfect greatness.