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COMICS!!! |OT| May 2017 - Every Empire Falls

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Sandfox

Member
my name is ed said:
I think this is maybe the 2nd time you've asked, specifically, what is bad about Spencer's Hydra Cap. I didn't answer before, mostly, because I rather not spend too much energy and time talking about why I think something is bad when instead I could choose to talk about a comic I liked. It's also something that's been discussed here relatively frequently so it often feels like we keep on circling back on the same topics.

That being said, I'll try to say what *I* think is bad about Hydra Cap in a way that's relatively short. I won't be addressing a lot of my issues with it but hopefully Ill have hit on the big bits.

Concept wise, no it's not a terrible idea. It's something Simon and Kirby did themselves when they had the Red Skull brainwash Cap into a Nazi.


Hell, it *could* be a very well executed and interesting concept applied to character, but Spencer's take simply isn't.

My biggest problem with Spencer's take on Cap is that he, as a writer, simply does not understand the power of symbols and the responsibility of handling those symbols. This goes for every story a creator makes, but he fails especially bad here. I think almost every issue I have with Spencer's writing stems from that.

Take Hydra as a "fascist occult group that aligned itself with the Nazis but that's totally not Nazis." Hmm OK, so that means Hydra figured everything the Nazis were doing was just fine because they were advancing the fascist agenda. Of course, this means that Hydra were directly contributing to the genocide of millions of Jewish people, LGBT, minorities and dissidents.

So what does Spencer do with this? Instead of owning up and dealing with that this means Cap is a full blown white supremacist who worked for a government that killed millions and millions, Spencer writes it off as talk that the collaboration with the Nazis was simply something that "got out of hand" (I believe this was the actual quote)

As if the eradication of peoples is just something that happens on accident and therefore Hydra Cap is not someone who is in part culpable for the death of millions.

So, could you do a book where Cap has actually been a sleeper agent for an occult fascist group? Yeah most definitely, but you absolutely do not get to have your story take place in actual history while not dealing with the nastier side of it.

The thing is Spencer wants to take credit for the shocking thing without having to do the hard work of it actually saying something and just keeps pointing to the next thing on the horizon and saying that's where it will all come together. He wants you to believe that he's not a bad writer and he's begging you to keep reading his bad books and to preserve judgment.

The thing about that is that monthly comics is a serialized form. They come out in installments and are designed as so. Nick Spencer isn't writing Secret Empire #5 as *only* a chapter in SE meant to be consumed after #4 and before #6. He's writing it to be consumed 2 or 3 weeks or whatever in between the other issues. Which is to say, if you can't break down and criticize installments as well as heap praise on them when it is earned then why release or bother with them at all?

The whole "keep reading to find out how we definitely address those criticisms you brought up" is a fucking sham to get you to buy and read more bad comics. There's a kernel of truth to it which is why it works on some level. But no one reads the first five issues of The Walking Dead then talks about how good it is and then is told by others they've got to reserve judgment until they've read the other hundred plus issues. Those issues of TWD were still good and the Spencer Cap comics are still bad even if Secret Empire: Epilogue #17 is any good.

I promise that when Nick Spencer is done with Cap, it won't feel fulfilling, it won't feel noteworthy. It will just feel empty like nothing was earned, and you'll be out of whatever amount of money it was that you invested to keep up with the story.

Quick hits:

Spencer's dialogue is a garbage fire, and if Steve Lieber is not around, then Spencer's comedic bits fall really flat

The art is mostly good through his run although I'm really not a fan of Jesus Saiz's coloring. Nearly everything is textured the same and there is weird decision to have strong diffused white light hit everything in a lot of panels.

Nick Spencer is super bad at twitter and can't handle a half tweet of criticism. He'd be gunning for worst person at twitter if it weren't for our idiot president and Russian spambots.

He also tends to pretend all political criticism of his work is invalid because he believes he's the most liberal person in comics and couldn't possibly create something that is 'problematic.' Especially given the fact he used to be a Republican as late as 2005.

Also, he's just a shitty person who got ran out of Cincinnati for being too much of a shithead (to put it lightly)
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This is an interesting take on Spencer's Captain America, though our thoughts differ in some places.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
Man the bug cover for August is awesome

BUG-4.jpg
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R

RepairmanJack

Member
Donniewahlberg said:
Also great to see BB back. Looking forward to that miniseries with him hitting trade actually, they've took their time with that. Checked recently and still Nadal til June
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It had some weird stuff around when it was first releasing too. Can't remember if it was always supposed to be double issues or the run shifted to double issues at some point, but it seemed to be a mess when it was first coming out from what I remember.

Not story related, just the publishing stuff.
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
Catching up on X-Men, all three titles post Secret Wars, pre Marvel Now 2.

Am I supposed to just assume that anyone MIA is hanging around the school in Limbo (since they're not with Magneto, nor with the X-Teens)? Or else they just went home or something?

Where's Pixie? The Cuckoos? Eva Bell? Rachel? Emma? What ever happened to Hope's friends (besides Oya)? Actually, where's Hope? Polaris? Havok?
 
R

RepairmanJack

Member
Duane Cunningham said:
Catching up on X-Men, all three titles post Secret Wars, pre Marvel Now 2.

Am I supposed to just assume that anyone MIA is hanging around the school in Limbo (since they're not with Magneto, nor with the X-Teens)? Or else they just went home or something?

Where's Pixie? The Cuckoos? Eva Bell? Rachel? Emma? What ever happened to Hope's friends (besides Oya)? Actually, where's Hope? Polaris? Havok?
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Welcome to everything Marvel Post Secret Wars.

You basically don't assume anything until they show up again.
 
P

PsychBat!

Banned
Duane Cunningham said:
Catching up on X-Men, all three titles post Secret Wars, pre Marvel Now 2.

Am I supposed to just assume that anyone MIA is hanging around the school in Limbo (since they're not with Magneto, nor with the X-Teens)? Or else they just went home or something?

Where's Pixie? The Cuckoos? Eva Bell? Rachel? Emma? What ever happened to Hope's friends (besides Oya)? Actually, where's Hope? Polaris? Havok?
Click to expand...
Post Secret Wars Marvel is.... something.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
Duane Cunningham said:
Catching up on X-Men, all three titles post Secret Wars, pre Marvel Now 2.

Am I supposed to just assume that anyone MIA is hanging around the school in Limbo (since they're not with Magneto, nor with the X-Teens)? Or else they just went home or something?

Where's Pixie? The Cuckoos? Eva Bell? Rachel? Emma? What ever happened to Hope's friends (besides Oya)? Actually, where's Hope? Polaris? Havok?
Click to expand...

A large number of those characters will show up as get further into those books.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Freezasaurus said:
I need to stop buying fighting games. They're just not for me anymore, yet I keep thinking that maybe I'll like the next one...
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IGN did me a solid by posting the entire Injustice 2 story on their YouTube. Now I don't have to buy the game!

...

I probably still will if it ever gets a PC release.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Is the Injustice comic still going on? I remember people used to always post the panels 2-ish years ago but I don't think I've seen it in a really long time.
 
W

WadiumArcadium

Member
Memento Mori said:
It's worth noting that IIRC Speedyhen will charge you straight away, not when it's dispatched.
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True, but I expect they'll sell their allocation pretty quickly if previous omnibuses are anything to go by and this is one I don't want to miss out on. I paid by Paypal anyway so it should be pretty simple to get my money back if need be.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Einchy said:
Is the Injustice comic still going on? I remember people used to always post the panels 2-ish years ago but I don't think I've seen it in a really long time.
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The original series wrapped awhile back, then there was the Ground Zero series that told the first game's story from Harley Quinn's perspective.

The Injustice 2 comic started about six weeks ago.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
RepairmanJack said:
It had some weird stuff around when it was first releasing too. Can't remember if it was always supposed to be double issues or the run shifted to double issues at some point, but it seemed to be a mess when it was first coming out from what I remember.

Not story related, just the publishing stuff.
Click to expand...

Oh cool maybe that's what the hold up was. Was it a prestige format book or do I remember wrong? It felt like the response was good though?

Tyrant Rave said:
Allred is such a treasure
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Which one?? Nah really, he is. I don't read much Marvel right now but I need to check out more Surfer. I've only read the first arc off of MU.
 
W

WadiumArcadium

Member
Afterlife With Archie #6: Holy shit at that
Cthulhu reveal on the final page. Francavilla's the best. The gradual buildup of tension in this issue was stomach churning. It's knowingly referenced in the book but it really did remind me of the Wicker Man.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
TetraxShards said:
IGN did me a solid by posting the entire Injustice 2 story on their YouTube. Now I don't have to buy the game!
Click to expand...

I played through the story and that was fine, but I'm not motivated to play anymore. The Multiverse mode seems cool, but also like a whole lot of grinding for no reason since I'm not interested in playing online.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Freezasaurus said:
I played through the story and that was fine, but I'm not motivated to play anymore. The Multiverse mode seems cool, but also like a whole lot of grinding for no reason since I'm not interested in playing online.
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I would much rather have the old Challenge Tower/STAR Labs model from their older games. I haven't played Multiverse but I didn't enjoy Living Towers at all. Although that was marred by that Faction War stuff which doesn't have an equivalent in Injustice 2.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
TetraxShards said:
I would much rather have the old Challenge Tower/STAR Labs model from their older games. I haven't played Multiverse but I didn't enjoy Living Towers at all. Although that was marred by that Faction War stuff which doesn't have an equivalent in Injustice 2.
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It has the straight-up battle tower in Multiverse mode with character endings and everything. I just don't care about 3/4 of these characters. Bring forth the Tekken.
 
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