Comparing Horizon Zero Dawn and TLoZ: BoTW

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brah you don't know what I would do to get a Souls game without their jank ass boss battles, I love the "metroid vania " ish exploration of bloodbourne/dark souls where when you're exploring things loop right and left and its so fucking cool to see " wow i was just there but i'm here back again wtf how did this loop " but I fucking hate when i'm stuck for hoours by a boss wall with janky camera. FUck fuck that noise. for so long I've been calmaoring for zelda to be like dark souls in terms of level design. and I also wanted dark souls to be like zelda where you could pick up different items that would interact with the enviorment not just weapons. I clamor for souls game to have puzzles like zelda q.q too. . Botw comes pretty close to what i wanted of both titles ...outside the visual department lol

Jank ass boss battles in Souls games... that's a minority opinion if I've ever heard one.

If you can see a giant robot that far away, then yeah that's more than enough reason to explore than unknown area in horizon. Imagine having to fight a robot of that size.

Personally I don't see large scale boss battles as anything enticing but hey, whatever floats your boat.
 
That's the point of the thread but not the point of my post.

Then what was the point?
Did you really just want to tell a bunch of people that they're excited for dumb things by a bad developer? Because that's basically what you did...
If you're going to shitpost and be an edgelord, you could have at least brought up Witcher 3 or Bloodborne. Sort of protocol when you have nothing worthwhile to add.
 
Game X being better than game Y is a next to impossible metric to prove but based on track record of devs I don't see Zero Dawn being better than Zelda either, though that's not exactly a bad thing its not like there are many games better than a good Zelda.

Track record of making one of the best shooters ever made.
 
If a giant robot creature is sufficient to make anyone want to explore an area then boy, oh boy, takriel must be dying to explore Horizon's world.

Oh... wait.
Thing is, I don't really care that much about the Guardians. I care more about that satisfying feeling of exploring something unknown. I'll give you that if there were just a bunch of Gorons up there, I likely wouldn't feel that it was worth it going up there. But I have to believe that there's other cool things to see.

With Horizon, I'm not so sure that it can grant you that same feeling of exploration tbh.
 
For the games I'm into usually the genders of the characters make sense within their narrative, otherwise I don't care. But if it's a story based game the gender if important whether they are male, female, alien, animal, lizard, anything. Contextually it has to make sense instead of be a tick-box.

I don't apply this to arcadey games and games that just focuses on pretty looking characters and cool designs (I almost exclusively play as girls in fighting games and I think the inkling girl is nicer looking than the inkling boy for example). But anything with a plot should have a narrative that works in tandem with the character it's built with. This is the case for all story-based media, including games.

List of my favourite games:

Bayonetta: Is a woman because the story is about witches. If it was about a Lumen sage I'd expect it to be a guy.

Guilty Gear: As a character I chose Dizzy and Ramlethal because the juxtoposition of their rather innocent/frail design and to their terrifying power is interesting. In the narrative either of those two being a guy wouldn't work.

Yakuza: Kiryu being a guy makes sense within the narrative, I don't even need to explain this considering the mini-games. Him being a girl wouldn't work.

Final Fantasy: Terra from FFVI was most likely chosen to be a girl for the same reason of why characters like Dizzy and Ram exist. Cloud was chosen to be a guy in FFVII fit well because of the role Aeris played in the plot. The story would have to be reworked if Cloud were a girl.

You can argue about gender stereotypes and needing to subvert them, but again, this itself is something that is an intention within the narrative, so it works fine. As long as it's not "Just because"

I just need to make it clear, I dont have anything against female protags. I have problems with characters that are X for the sake of being X.

I'm not a straight white male who believes straight white male is the default and needs no explanation, that too needs to fit nicely into the narrative. (I mean, I'm straight, but I'm not the other two).

Everything about a character needs to be done with a reason, lest the narrative get diluted with agenda and the need to appeal to a market rather than to tell a story.

How does every iteration of Link being a white male fit into the narrative of previous Zelda games?
 
Your logic confuses me. What does Horizon have to be about for a female character to make sense "contextually?"

Depends on the plot. I didn't say it was a concern of mine, I don't know anything about the plot. I was just replying to someone who jumped down the throat of another guy who stated that female characters for the sake of being female was becoming a box to be ticked rather than anything else.

He said it was an issue in Horizon because of the overarching view that it seems like the game is a mish mash of what's cool right now.

The truth is that most guys don't care about the gender of their character anymore, I don't hear the whole "bluh I don't want to play as a girl!" anymore. But I do hear a lot of "AWESOME FINALLY GIRLS ARE BEING REPRESENTED IN GAMES" despite it being a thing for the last two or so years now. And so perhaps having a girl main character comes across more like "Hey its hip and progressive to have a girl character right? Let's do that!"

I get that gender inequality in games was an issue, but I feel like we've progressed enough now that we don't need to fanfare every time it happens. No-one really has an issue with girl main characters these days, I like them, but not when its done for the sake of it. Let's keep it equal.

How does every iteration of Link being a white male fit into the narrative of previous Zelda games?

The mythos of the game the was established back in the 90s set him in stone as a guy. He was a guy back in the first game because it was an adventure game in the 80s where the traditional idea of a young man going on an adventure to beat the bad guy was typical and fun for youngsters who played games, and there would no doubt be a dissonance for them if he were a girl.

I kinda wouldn't have minded being able to select the gender of Link in this new one, like some people assumed might be the case when the first trailer dropped. But then the chemistry between him and Zelda would be lost, in terms of narrative the whole "legendary hero and goddess hylia being reincarnated throughout time" mythos would be lost.
 
If a giant robot creature is sufficient to make anyone want to explore an area then boy, oh boy, takriel must be dying to explore Horizon's world.

Oh... wait.

I mean.....even if that's the only reason (it's probably not), what would make you want to explore it? That's pretty compelling to me, personally.
 
So can see 4 Bobkins and a Butterfly - really, is this the best you can do for looking alive and populated ?

It looks empty, barren and lifeless

yeah the world looks empty and lifeless because we have seen ALL of it of course. We saw 2% of the game, a region which is supposed to be lifeless (i.e. "it is a sacred place where no monsters are meant to roam. However, due to the Calamity Ganon's growing influence, it has been corrupted")

So maybe wait to see all the other regions to make such barren critics
 
Jank ass boss battles in Souls games... that's a minority opinion if I've ever heard one.

I'd even go as far to call the Dark Souls series bad games. But people can enjoy bad games. I enjoy Skyrim and Fallout 4, maybe put in over 70 hours in both games. If you'd ask my opinion I'd call them bad but fun games.

People don't like the same stuff. They don't like the same games and find different details in games interesting.

Zelda excites me for the childlike adventure, the sense of discovery through exploration, the sound design and the overall atmospheric experience.

Horizon excites me because of the art design, robo dinosaurs, enemy variety, scale, graphics and atmospheric experience.

Is it wrong to like one and the other? Is it wrong to like only one? No need to attack someone for having a different opinion on such an objective taste like video game entertainment..
 
If you are more than 12 years old and you are making an argument for which game will be better based on entirely subjective metrics, you are an absolute idiot. Both games share on simple thing: They are open world titles developed exclusively for a company that makes hardware. The implementation of said open world is completely different. Usual suspects from both sides show that neogaf only is a little above other boards because of the moderation, in spite of some users.

It would be incredible if you could play both games, and choose which game is your favorite after the fact.
 
If you are more than 12 years old and you are making an argument for which game will be better based on entirely subjective metrics, you are an absolute idiot. Both games share on simple thing: They are open world titles developed exclusively for a company that makes hardware. The implementation of said open world is completely different. Usual suspects from both sides show that neogaf only is a little above other boards because of the moderation, in spite of some users.

It would be incredible if you could play both games, and choose which game is your favorite after the fact.
What can I say... smelling a new Zelda game awakens my inner child :p But I should stop now. I already got burned with Skyward Sword.
 
Jank ass boss battles in Souls games... that's a minority opinion if I've ever heard one.



.


maybe but i just can't stand boss battles in souls. sure they give you a relief/ a sense of accomplishment after you beat them ...well some of them do but i still can't stand the many times I died due to a terrible camera angles. Pls someone give me souls game without boss battles pls.!!!

anyway i'm soo feeling zelda botw to be my souls type experience this year just look at this
gif

ezgif.com-optimize13espc.gif

7 hearts almost gone from a enemy from wondering around a unknown territory <3 i love that about souls and its coming in a zelda game damn i'm excited.

also just doging looks fun as hell
source.gif
 
The OP is actually comparing the game, but the replies are not.
The OP also clearly states a bias, and it's hard to not see a trend in Nintendo / Zelda fans trying hard to push for the comparison and trying to peddle Zelda as a defacto better product on every level, when the games are actually hardly comparable beyond surface level.

I'm not sure if they see the launch of Zelda BotW (within 2 weeks of each other) threatened by HZ's large Marketing push, or the PS4 install base, but it seems to me that comparing a new title in a critically acclaimed Zelda franchise to the new IP Horizon is a huge compliment for GG.

So... It's great to have apparently two wonderful and likely to be Universally Acclaimed (seeing the previews) Aventure Action RPGs coming up?
 
Which Zelda games did you actually play?

Don't worry. The users posts are almost 50% Zelda-bashing.

I'm not sure if they see the launch of Zelda BotW (within 2 weeks of each other) threatened by HZ's large Marketing push, or the PS4 install base, but it seems to me that comparing a new title in a critically acclaimed Zelda franchise to the new IP Horizon is a huge compliment for GG.

Within one week even. It delayed my purchase for HZD but I'm definitely getting it at a later point.
 
Horizon just feels a little Ubisoft-y to me, you know what I mean?

true, actually the enviromental designs remind me a bit of SHadow of MOrdor hell taking over the mechanical animals part to mount was kind of part of shadows of mordor too haha.
 
Horizon just feels a little Ubisoft-y to me, you know what I mean?
it's just because of UI resemblances (which you can turn off), it's really not. All the previews are praising the gameplay and challenge and interesting world, which I really haven't heard from ubisoft since like AC2 lol. A better comparison would probably be a MGSV game where guns are replaced with bows and stealth is streamlined.

Here's a good video of gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxky-foycWc
 
For the games I'm into usually the genders of the characters make sense within their narrative, otherwise I don't care. But if it's a story based game the gender if important whether they are male, female, alien, animal, lizard, anything. Contextually it has to make sense instead of be a tick-box.

I don't apply this to arcadey games and games that just focuses on pretty looking characters and cool designs (I almost exclusively play as girls in fighting games and I think the inkling girl is nicer looking than the inkling boy for example). But anything with a plot should have a narrative that works in tandem with the character it's built with. This is the case for all story-based media, including games.

List of my favourite games:

Bayonetta: Is a woman because the story is about witches. If it was about a Lumen sage I'd expect it to be a guy.

Guilty Gear: As a character I chose Dizzy and Ramlethal because the juxtoposition of their rather innocent/frail design and to their terrifying power is interesting. In the narrative either of those two being a guy wouldn't work.

Yakuza: Kiryu being a guy makes sense within the narrative, I don't even need to explain this considering the mini-games. Him being a girl wouldn't work.

Final Fantasy: Terra from FFVI was most likely chosen to be a girl for the same reason of why characters like Dizzy and Ram exist. Cloud was chosen to be a guy in FFVII fit well because of the role Aeris played in the plot. The story would have to be reworked if Cloud were a girl.

You can argue about gender stereotypes and needing to subvert them, but again, this itself is something that is an intention within the narrative, so it works fine. As long as it's not "Just because"

I just need to make it clear, I dont have anything against female protags. I have problems with characters that are X for the sake of being X.

I'm not a straight white male who believes straight white male is the default and needs no explanation, that too needs to fit nicely into the narrative. (I mean, I'm straight, but I'm not the other two).

Everything about a character needs to be done with a reason, lest the narrative get diluted with agenda and the need to appeal to a market rather than to tell a story.
"I'm not a straight white male but I will present every argument that straight white males use to claim that white is the default, along with terms like agenda, because obviously you can't create someone who's not straight, white, and male, without some kind of agenda." Holy shit.
 
The OP also clearly states a bias, and it's hard to not see a trend in Nintendo / Zelda fans trying hard to push for the comparison and trying to peddle Zelda as a defacto better product on every level, when the games are actually hardly comparable beyond surface level.

I'm not sure if they see the launch of Zelda BotW (within 2 weeks of each other) threatened by HZ's large Marketing push, or the PS4 install base, but it seems to me that comparing a new title in a critically acclaimed Zelda franchise to the new IP Horizon is a huge compliment for GG.

So... It's great to have apparently two wonderful and likely to be Universally Acclaimed (seeing the previews) Aventure Action RPGs coming up?

I don't think it is fair to say Nintendo / Zelda fans are pushing the comparison since it's difficult which side is the origin of such stupid discussion. I do think that OP has good intention (he/she stays civil throughout the thread) and it is ok to have a stance provided that the poster is not shitposting.
 
Depends on the plot. I didn't say it was a concern of mine, I don't know anything about the plot. I was just replying to someone who jumped down the throat of another guy who stated that female characters for the sake of being female was becoming a box to be ticked rather than anything else.

There is no hidden agenda box, when the protagonist is the same 90% of the time, it's not an agenda when you meet the remaining 10%.

Do you want to know what an agenda is like? Listen to Kojima, 343i or Zelda devs when trying to explain their misogynist view points. (And I'm a person that loves Kojima's games).
 
So can see 4 Bobkins and a Butterfly - really, is this the best you can do for looking alive and populated ?

It looks empty, barren and lifeless

As I mentioned, your request was not very specific. You asked for a screen with more than 5 alive things in it and I gave you one.
 
Horizon looks interesting but the team making it has a fairly poor track record of mediocre games with impressive visuals. Coming anywhere close to Zelda in quality terms would be an impressive achievement for the guys that made Killzone. I'm not convinced they will do it.
 
Horizon looks interesting but the team making it has a fairly poor track record of mediocre games with impressive visuals. Coming anywhere close to Zelda in quality terms would be an impressive achievement for the guys that made Killzone. I'm not convinced they will do it.

Why does people act like they only made KZ:SF? KZ3 was good and KZ2 is one of the highest rated shooter ever.
 
Horizon will be better visually and technically bUT I'm sure Zelda will be more fun.

I'm worried about Horizon in the fact that rpgs usually end up boring after a few missions. If Horizon has Zelda like dungeons and puzzles I'll eat my words.

It has something similar to Zelda dungeons or caverns/mines in Elder Scrolls and Witcher 3. Not sure if they are designed like puzzles like Zelda's Dungeons are or not though.
 
"I'm not a straight white male but I will present every argument that straight white males use to claim that white is the default, along with terms like agenda, because obviously you can't create someone who's not straight, white, and male, without some kind of agenda." Holy shit.

But he/she/it is right. Tomb Raider is Lara Croft. If you make Tomb Raider a male, you might as well call it
Uncharted.

Inb4 I get called a straight white male.
 
The mythos of the game the was established back in the 90s set him in stone as a guy. He was a guy back in the first game because it was an adventure game in the 80s where the traditional idea of a young man going on an adventure to beat the bad guy was typical and fun for youngsters who played games, and there would no doubt be a dissonance for them if he were a girl.

I kinda wouldn't have minded being able to select the gender of Link in this new one, like some people assumed might be the case when the first trailer dropped. But then the chemistry between him and Zelda would be lost, in terms of narrative the whole "legendary hero and goddess hylia being reincarnated throughout time" mythos would be lost.

I wasn't asking for a history lesson. You seemed adamant that gender needs to be justified in games with narratives, so I asked what justification there is for Link to be male.

I've played LTTP, the Oracle games, Minish Cap, and Wind Waker. What chemistry is there between Link and Zelda that I'm missing? Is it a romantic one? And how does that romantic narrative change if Link were a girl as opposed to being a boy?

Even you yourself admit that you wouldn't mind being able to select a gender in the new Zelda game, implying to some degree that gender doesn't matter much narratively. So why does Aloy being a girl need to be justified?
 
But he/she/it is right. Tomb Raider is Lara Croft. If you make Tomb Raider a male, you might as well call it
Uncharted.

Inb4 I get called a straight white male.
When making a character it shouldn't matter at all what gender they are. Nothing about Aloy has anything to do with her gender, because she's more than just the gender of her character. Arguments that having a female character or someone who isn't white must equal some sort of agenda are why the status quo of straight white brown haired males was retained for so long. Because it treats them as a default.
 
What does people act like they only made KZ:SF? KZ3 was good and KZ2 is one of the highest rated shooter ever.
The team behind Horizon is the one who made KZ2/3. They've started working on it after they finished Killzone 3.

KZ:SF was made by a new, younger team IIRC
 
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