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[Buggy Loop]

I feel like thats what we were discussing. Zero dawn has sold 25 million copies. Every other Horizon game has sold 13m combined. Forbidden West might not have cracked 10 million from these numbers. Why could that be? that people just arent interested in it or the franchise now. The first game was fresh and new but followed a very Ubisoft formula, had one amazing story section. Forbidden West clearly hasnt excited as many players.

Exactly this

I explained I BOUGHT the first game and I wouldn't play forbidden west, here he comes saying that I'm a wrong, big seller and all that. Sales, facts. Right, so huge drop in franchise sales for the sequel… hmmmmm

 

[Madflavor]

I don't understand how these games sold as much as they did. Is it really because of bundling? Horizon is like the Avatar of video games. Huge sales, but little actual impact. Nothing about them is exceptional in terms of story, characters, and gameplay.

 

[Same ol G]

So they gave the first game away for free in 2021 and this game was a forced pack in for how many people?
How many of those 38 million are actual sales to people who actually wanted this game....

 

[Embearded]

Played both of them, they are just ok games. If you haven't played then you are not missing an industry defining experience.

 

[winjer]

I played HZD and enjoyed it. But there is nothing special about it, asides from graphics and enemy design.
It's just good enough. The combat is serviceable, the story and characters are just bland and feel like they went through HR to get sanitized and approved.
Most quests are just go there kill something or retrieve something.
I plan on playing HFW, but it's not a must play for me.

 

[Cakeboxer]

and this game was a forced pack in for how many people?

I estimate 4 to 5 million bundles (official + unofficial) sold, but it's difficult to know how many of those buyers genuinely wanted the game.

 

[Same ol G]

I estimate 4 to 5 million bundles (official + unofficial) sold, but it's difficult to know how many of those buyers genuinely wanted the game.

You're right, that's not something were gonna find out, it would explain the drop off for the second game..

 

[b0bbyJ03]

I enjoyed Zero Dawn but felt like I had to slog through Forbidden West. They made alloy so unlikeable and the supporting characters weren't much better. The story sucked too. Game was as mid as they come.

 

[Det]

I feel like thats what we were discussing. Zero dawn has sold 25 million copies. Every other Horizon game has sold 13m combined. Forbidden West might not have cracked 10 million from these numbers. Why could that be? that people just arent interested in it or the franchise now. The first game was fresh and new but followed a very Ubisoft formula, had one amazing story section. Forbidden West clearly hasnt excited as many players.

Because HZD has a 5 year lead in sales and never came out on PSN Plus right after launch to bankrupt sales.

This is the problem with milking any new IP that is a hit. Horizon needs to take a break, along with GoW, Uncharted, CoD, Ass Creed, etc.

Focus on new IP and dormant franchises.

Horizon can still sell with a port to Switch 2.

HFW and HZD have a 5-year release gap.

Uncharted 3 and 4 also have a 5-year release gap.
Lost Legacy came out 1 year after Uncharted 4.

"Exhausted franchise"

It's just because it's become hipster fashion to hate Sony's biggest new IP in the last 8 years.
Imagine letting Sony release another IP on the level of Uncharted and Last of Us? You have to fight that.

 

[Det]

I estimate 4 to 5 million bundles (official + unofficial) sold, but it's difficult to know how many of those buyers genuinely wanted the game.

HZD and HFW have a 30% completion rate and 6% platinum trophies.
If people didn't want Horizon, they don't want any other game in history...

It's like I'm saying here, it's become a herd reaction on social media and forums to hate the game.

All the numbers indicate that the game is super relevant; everyone liked it and finished it.

 

[Det]

Let's see which game people liked the most after buying it?

Anyone want to run a contest?

The Witcher 3 Remaster (PS5)

Platinum: 0.9%
Complete the campaign on any difficulty: 12.7%

The Witcher (PS4)

Platinum: 1%
Complete the game on any difficulty: 21.7%

Horizon Zero Dawn (PS4):

5.4% of players achieved Platinum
32% completed the game

Horizon Forbidden West:

6.3% of Platinum players
30.1% completed the game

Have you ever seen someone desperately saying that The Witcher 3 is weak? That the franchise is tired?
That it's a flop?

It's because there are a lot of people resentful and frustrated with the success of the PlayStation.

 

[analog_future]

 

[Cakeboxer]

HZD and HFW have a 30% completion rate and 6% platinum trophies.
If people didn't want Horizon, they don't want any other game in history...

It's like I'm saying here, it's become a herd reaction on social media and forums to hate the game.

All the numbers indicate that the game is super relevant; everyone liked it and finished it.

Even though Forbidden West may have decent completion and platinum trophy rates, that doesn't guarantee that everyone actually enjoyed the game. Many players tried Forbidden West because they loved Zero Dawn or were forced to buy it through bundles. Sometimes people finish a game simply out of obligation or because they don't want their purchase to go to waste. The criticism and negative reactions on social media indicate that a lot of players didn't connect with Forbidden West in the same way they did with the original.

 

[mayham2199]

The criticism and negative reactions on social media indicate that a lot of players didn't connect with Forbidden West in the same way they did with the original.

If this was the way I judged how much people want a game then you would think COD is the worst game in history but somehow it's the best selling game damn near every single year. I think the reality is a lot of people enjoy Horizon and they just don't go on social media hyping it up. I thought Spiderman 2 was amazing and like 5 of my friends kept pushing me to hurry and play it because of how awesome they thought it was. Then I hop on this site and it's all SM2 is DEI woke BS, Insomniac is a woke studio producing garbage, etc.

 

[Det]

Even though Forbidden West may have decent completion and platinum trophy rates, that doesn't guarantee that everyone actually enjoyed the game. Many players tried Forbidden West because they loved Zero Dawn or were forced to buy it through bundles. Sometimes people finish a game simply out of obligation or because they don't want their purchase to go to waste. The criticism and negative reactions on social media indicate that a lot of players didn't connect with Forbidden West in the same way they did with the original.

The Witcher (PS4)

Platinum: 1%
Complete the game on any difficulty: 21.7%

Horizon Zero Dawn (PS4):

5.4% of players achieved Platinum
32% completed the game

Horizon Forbidden West:

6.3% of Platinum players
30.1% completed the game

 

[Cakeboxer]

If this was the way I judged how much people want a game then you would think COD is the worst game in history but somehow it's the best selling game damn near every single year. I think the reality is a lot of people enjoy Horizon and they just don't go on social media hyping it up. I thought Spiderman 2 was amazing and like 5 of my friends kept pushing me to hurry and play it because of how awesome they thought it was. Then I hop on this site and it's all SM2 is DEI woke BS, Insomniac is a woke studio producing garbage, etc.

The thing is, in forums like this one, probably less than 2% of players hang out. The majority simply don't think much about games; they just consume them. Spider-Man 2 is a good example. The game is already very woke, and the Mary Jane missions are ridiculously over the top. Many people here rightly think it's not that great. But nobody outside really cares. Most players don't engage critically with the game and just want to have fun. Judging by this forum alone, hardly any game would sell well except for a few exceptions.

The Witcher (PS4)

Platinum: 1%
Complete the game on any difficulty: 21.7%

The Witcher 3 still sold 50 million copies, with critic and player ratings over 90. So what does a game's completion rate actually tell us? Exactly, nothing. It's just a statistic that's heavily influenced by the genre and the length of the game. Also, platinum trophies are largely dependent on time investment and difficulty.

 

[adamsapple]

The Witcher (PS4)

Platinum: 1%
Complete the game on any difficulty: 21.7%

Horizon Zero Dawn (PS4):

5.4% of players achieved Platinum
32% completed the game

Horizon Forbidden West:

6.3% of Platinum players
30.1% completed the game

One of them is > 2 times larger.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Impressive, considering it has one of the most unlikable protagonists I've ever seen in a game.

 

[Det]

One of them is > 2 times larger.

When the game is boring, nobody finishes it anyway

 

[adamsapple]

When the game is boring, nobody finishes it anyway

Yes, that explains why Horizon has only 5% more completion despite being less than half the length of TW3.

 

[Det]

The Witcher 3 still sold 50 million copies, with critic and player ratings over 90. So what does a game's completion rate actually tell us? Exactly, nothing. It's just a statistic that's heavily influenced by the genre and the length of the game. Also, platinum trophies are largely dependent on time investment and difficulty.

Sometimes people finish a game simply out of obligation or because they don't want their purchase to go to waste.

If the 6% of everyone who compared the game "forced" themselves to get the platinum trophy, imagine games that have 0.9%?
It's simple: the earth is round, HZD is a hit, and people played it.

Maybe it's a conspiracy. 10 million people forced themselves to finish the game just to make it look like they liked it.

But nobody bought The Witcher 3 and so nobody "forced" themselves to finish it.

 

[Det]

Yes, that explains why Horizon has only 5% more completion despite being less than half the length of TW3.

So, what kind of completion rate do 4-hour games have?

Make a rule of three here:

300%

Don't worry, wait another 10 years and Xbox will make a Horizon Zero Dawn for you.

 

[adamsapple]

So, what kind of completion rate do 4-hour games have?

Make a rule of three here:

300%

You're not making sense.

The longer a game, naturally it's going to have less of a completion rate, and even less for 100%, platinum etc.

Comparing two RPGs with VASTLY different average completion times is a dumb move from the off-set.

 

[Det]

You're not making sense.

The longer a game, naturally it's going to have less of a completion rate, and even less for 100%, platinum etc.

Comparing two RPGs with VASTLY different average completion times is a dumb move from the off-set.

You were the one who said that shorter games have a higher completion rate.

 

[FalconPunch]

Forbidden West was not an enjoyable game. From a technical perspective, it was thoroughly competent. From a character design, story, and gameplay perspective, it wasn't engaging or enjoyable for me.

It goes down as one of the most boring games i've ever played. After 2 hours, i was out. I tried several times to get back into it but it was just so bad. Also, Aloy was mega annoying in this game. Usually, i can finish a game if the graphics are good enough and it has a serviceable story. Despite the great graphics, i just couldn't stand Aloy.

 

[adamsapple]

You were the one who said that shorter games have a higher completion rate.

Yes, I said that in the post you quoted as well. And it's a pretty easy thing to understand and follow.

I didn't turn the moron in my brain to 11 and say something like "duhh shorter games will have 300% completion duhh".

 

[EN250]

Curious how most of Sony's sequels are selling significantly less than the original games.

Because quality is worst than the originals and the novelty wore off? First Horizon had some real cool stuff behind it, second one was more of the same with added gimmicks, first Spider-Man was a great game, second one was a bloated more of the same game with added stuff to pad it out, GOW18 was an amazing game while Ragnarok seems like a rushed game that's missing a portion of it and Thor was the best it had to offer, the less I talk about TLOU and its remake-remastered-rebuilt-recreation-rendition + it's dog water sequel, the better

 

[UltimaKilo]

Because HZD has a 5 year lead in sales and never came out on PSN Plus right after launch to bankrupt sales.



HFW and HZD have a 5-year release gap.

Uncharted 3 and 4 also have a 5-year release gap.
Lost Legacy came out 1 year after Uncharted 4.

"Exhausted franchise"

It's just because it's become hipster fashion to hate Sony's biggest new IP in the last 8 years.
Imagine letting Sony release another IP on the level of Uncharted and Last of Us? You have to fight that.

One title release from each IP per generation is more than enough. Alternate the IPs each studio puts out, you should not have two direct sequels to a game each gen, maybe every 2 gens if you have enough IPs in your studio.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I don't understand how these games sold as much as they did. Is it really because of bundling? Horizon is like the Avatar of video games. Huge sales, but little actual impact. Nothing about them is exceptional in terms of story, characters, and gameplay.

I disagree, I think the first game's story and storytelling were engrossing and the character is pretty memorable.

 

[mayham2199]

One title release from each IP per generation is more than enough. Alternate the IPs each studio puts out, you should not have two direct sequels to a game each gen, maybe every 2 gens if you have enough IPs in your studio.

Man hard disagree here. I don't want to be waiting 10+ years for a sequel to a game that has an amazing story which I think HZD has. I do think these IPs should have an ending though. Three games is enough and then move on.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Those are good numbers, put this in perspective the average N64 game sold a million, games rarely hold interest rates past the first one, me? I love a good sequel, Horizon Forbidden West everyone with an xbox, ps5, or pc needs to play it. It's structured too look big but you can fast travel almost anywhere.

 

[Woggleman]

The series and the second game especially get too much hate fir not being Elden Ring or BOTW or whatever it is released close to.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

wait....how come no one has posted this:

Game Dev  Thread 'Shuhei Yoshida says Horizon Forbidden West didn't sell as well as he expected'

Jan 16, 2025

In terms of sheer sales, PlayStation veteran Shuhei Yoshida reveals that he thought the sequel could have performed better.

Speaking in his first interview after departing from PlayStation in 2024, the former president of SIE Worldwide Studios for Sony tells Kinda Funny Games that one game's sales figures, in particular, left him surprised

"The one I was a bit surprised [abou] in terms of the number of units [sold] was the second Horizon game."

According to Yoshida, he expected the sequel to sell better as it came after an already...

• Draugoth
• Replies: 288
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 
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Shuhei Yoshida Says He Was Surprised Horizon Forbidden West Sales Weren’t Better

Former PlayStation executive Shuhei Yoshida says that he was surprised that Horizon Forbidden West didn't sell as much as he thought it would.

gamerant.com

"The one I was a bit surprised [about] in terms of the number of units [sold] was the second Horizon game.
I love Horizon and the game did well, and I was hoping that the sequel would do even better in terms of sales. The game was bigger and great, but I don't think the second one did as many units as the first one."


Play Station-soft.

 

[playbignbox]

Sales are good but Sony's open world design is terrible, zero desire to finish the first game.

 

[Cakeboxer]

If the 6% of everyone who compared the game "forced" themselves to get the platinum trophy, imagine games that have 0.9%?
It's simple: the earth is round, HZD is a hit, and people played it.

Maybe it's a conspiracy. 10 million people forced themselves to finish the game just to make it look like they liked it.

But nobody bought The Witcher 3 and so nobody "forced" themselves to finish it.

You're clinging desperately to meaningless metrics, there's no point in continuing this discussion on that basis.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

I have no idea what you're talking about. According to psnp 42.33% of all players (who have their trophies set to be visible for public) have finished the last mission, 38.75% finished the epilogue. Meanwhile, in Horizon Zero Dawn (PS4 version), 40.05% of all players earned the last story related trophy.

If you're trying to shit on the arguably best open world game ever made, a 7 year old game that's still the pinnacle of open world designs, try again.

Oh, start a food fight and hide your hands? I see. Well, Im not the one who brought it up, you did. You're the one who unprovokedly tried to shit on Horizon by saying RDR2 has sold more despite not having (presumeable) a 60fps patch, and I pointed out that explains why many people who bought it havent completed it. By your own admission, your source isnt even reliable, but I'll play your game....

I found game site showing a year after release only 22% of players completed it. A Steam community forum post 2 years after release with members pointing out it has a 20% completion rate on Steam, and thats for players who dont need a 60fps patch....A 2023 reddit thread with a graph showing completion percentages for consoles and PC that averages out to around to a 29% completion rate when accounting for all platforms. Im sure originally what I said would still be true if you did this for more open world games, but I dont have time for that.

Yes, I know longer games tend to have lower completion percentages. Thats a different argument entirely that involves the study of singleplayer vs multiplayer. Here we're talking about singleplayer vs singleplayer. I'm just merely pointing out that maybe a 60fps patch does matter, as I believe the "best open world game of all time" should have a significantly higher completion rate. I doubt that would fix the systematic issues the game has, which is not the fact that it runs at 30fp on consoles, its the slow forced animatiosns for everything you do. We dont even talk about the game because honestly we all know its boring and mundane when you're not pretending to be a gunslinger. Its more of a simulator than a game, which I believe is why it lost Game of the Year to God of War, which unsurprisingly has a significantly higher completion rate.

 

[electricmastro]

If this is accurate, then that would mean it has sold more than all these franchises:

Total War - 37.8 million

Dark Souls - 37.33 million

The Last of Us - 37 million

Kingdom Hearts - 36 million

Counter-Strike - 35.7 million

Naruto - 35.47 million

NBA Live - 35 million

Batman: Arkham - 35 million

Football Manager - 34 million

Mafia - 34 million

Brain Age - 33.89 million

Devil May Cry - 33 million

Saints Row - 32 million

Gundam - 30.9 million

Splatoon - 30.51 million

Tales - 30.25 million

Tony Hawk - 30 million

Command & Conquer - 30 million

James Bond - 30 million

Spyro - 30 million

Sniper Elite - 30 million