Fabieter
Member
Is this the reason they are removing the disc drive for no reason except insane greed?
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Console gamers need to recalibrate their pricing expectations from here on out
- Thread starter analog_future
- Start date
Is this the reason they are removing the disc drive for no reason except insane greed?
bundylove
Banned
Well, for me time is money. My time is worth way more than a 100 bucks savings.
Not saying you shouldnt but if i have to spend hours researching pricing , i rather use that time to earn money and for sure i would make more then i would save.
Bit thats just business one on one
xXRedxSlugXx
Member
All their studies show digital is taking over (as it has with everything else). I'm pretty confident in saying its gonna be an optional add-on from here on out until it makes zero sense for them to do it anymore. Plus, why not squeeze an extra $80 out of physical collectors like myself? This system isn't for the budget minded consumer, its for the person who wants the best Playstation available. If you are budget minded, you'll buy the regular PS5 anyway. Not saying I'm happy with any of these decisions they've made but it makes complete business sense.
Also it's important to remember they aren't removing the disc drive. Don't forget the PS5 has 2 SKU's. Digital and one with an included disc drive. The ultimate goal is to get everyone tied up with digital games and be "stuck" in their ecosystem.
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bundylove
Banned
Fabieter
Member
So its fine to nickel and dimme their most loyal fans
Future generations won't buy consoles anymore. No worries about that
ForAcademicPurposes
Gold Member
Vote with your wallets. That is the only sane piece of advice I can give console warriors in this day and age.
xXRedxSlugXx
Member
There is no morality involved in this... This is a corporations decision as a business to make money, YOU decide if you want to participate in any of this.So its fine to nickel and dimme their most loyal fans
Majima Everywhere System
Member
It’s business, but if you grew up in the age of mags and game swapping, the hobby here is ripping off Sony, MS, and Nintendo.
It’s always been that way. Spend a day to set up emulators just so, and never play a game. Trade a 64 with 1 game for a PS1 with 20. The actual systems and games are ice on the cake to a life of swindling.
People will leave the PS6 behind, even if those with cash hop in with both feet. That group is not enough.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
This is why the era of Cloud gaming will be great. Let big companies create super powered consoles and we can just stream off their infastructure from a flash stick or app on our smart tv.
bundylove
Banned
Not sure i follow any of this.
Hrk69
Gold Member
BlackTron
Gold Member
The thing is Sony isn't making PS5 Pro because they have to or else we will buy Xbox systems instead. They're doing it to get some serious extra margin, way more than base PS5. By the days of PS6, which is years from now, they won't make PS5 Pro anymore, and PS6 will have smaller margins than their old "top shelf" model.
PS5 didn't even upgrade the CPU. You think we can't get a better CPU and 3-4 years newer GPU for $200 less if Sony leaves 1TB of storage/$100 profit on the table?
Hoho for breakfast
Member
I've never really cared how much a game or console or anything really costs if it is worth the value. The Pro being $700 doesn't matter imo if it is a $700 value item. To me the big question would be, is it?
You get the mostly upgraded specs including a 2TB hard drive with the rather large downside of it not having a disc drive. That is the real point of contention imo. If it had included a drive I don't think there'd be any question that it's worth an extra $200 over the base models. Without the drive it really depends on the individual if it's going to be worth the price. Assuming you can find a drive at retail price, you're paying $280+ over the price of the base model. Is it still worth it at that point? I imagine many people don't think so. Particularly when you can find a PS5 for $450 or so if you look around. At that point you're looking at nearly $350 extra to go with the Pro with drive over the cost of a base PS5 which becomes pretty absurd imo.
You get the mostly upgraded specs including a 2TB hard drive with the rather large downside of it not having a disc drive. That is the real point of contention imo. If it had included a drive I don't think there'd be any question that it's worth an extra $200 over the base models. Without the drive it really depends on the individual if it's going to be worth the price. Assuming you can find a drive at retail price, you're paying $280+ over the price of the base model. Is it still worth it at that point? I imagine many people don't think so. Particularly when you can find a PS5 for $450 or so if you look around. At that point you're looking at nearly $350 extra to go with the Pro with drive over the cost of a base PS5 which becomes pretty absurd imo.
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RickMasters
Member
Maybe. But then think what they do to offset any losses or predict lower sales…. They probably double down on GAAS and MTX.
Somethings gonna have to give and we will see in time I guess.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Not adorable enough, it comes with a disc drive.
Phil getting beat again with higher prices. First in Japan and now with this. He just can't win.
th4tguy
Member
No I don’t think we do.
There IS an optimal price that companies can sell a video game console for and achieve high numbers.
There is a balance. If Sony can’t / won’t produce a console with hardware that allows for them to stay in that general sweet spot of a price range, they WILL struggle to hit the sale numbers they hope to achieve and without a large user base , their REAL revenue streams also diminish. Online subs and software sales. The margins on hardware sales are stupid low.
What consumers need to get used to, is hardware that sticks around much longer and generational leaps in graphics that are far less exciting.
There IS an optimal price that companies can sell a video game console for and achieve high numbers.
There is a balance. If Sony can’t / won’t produce a console with hardware that allows for them to stay in that general sweet spot of a price range, they WILL struggle to hit the sale numbers they hope to achieve and without a large user base , their REAL revenue streams also diminish. Online subs and software sales. The margins on hardware sales are stupid low.
What consumers need to get used to, is hardware that sticks around much longer and generational leaps in graphics that are far less exciting.
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Generic
Member
Original $650 price? When did this happen?
Generic
Member
Sony should at least release a base PS5 with 2TB SSD.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Yes. That is what fans are for. What else do you think it means to be a loyal fan? To "save money"? Fans across the planet for any franchise, medium or hobby, pay through the nose the more loyal they are. That is fact.So its fine to nickel and dimme their most loyal fans
Xbox customers had the wrong idea and thought being a "fan" means being given free stuff without paying for things. Microsoft failed to reverse this trend and thus now they can't get their fans to pay up, leading to them being forced to seek money from other people.
Topher
Identifies as young
Why? Every PS5 can be upgraded with standard NVMe SSD.
Generic
Member
Because I don't want to pay for an extra SSD.
Topher
Identifies as young
Eh....I'm sure Sony would love to overcharge you for a 2 TB but I think they understand most are not going to buy that when they can upgrade it themselves cheaper.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
Now that you mention it... replacing the Slim+Disk with a 2 TB model (and no disk) for the same price does sound like something Sony would do.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Nah....they will leave the base models alone
asdasdasdbb
Member
Ah, but the adorably all digital future.
RyanEvans21
Member
It's not obsolete if developers still making games for it. Why its not worth it? if you using it for 4 years?
For 4 yrs you can save money for next gen console.
polybius80
Member
you are right but you cant contradict the costumer or tell them that, nobody wants to be told is doing something stupid specially people that are stupid, people will change their attitude as the economic difficulties at door are more obvious and in the case of video games when newer systems and games get more expensive than their predecessors, people ranting about something want to control the market, but if it doesn't resonate with the market they are singled out then they are more quiet and pretend nothing happened, hopefully they learn from it, the market is what decides not the complaining people, you have examples everywhere in the case if sony, recently the portal and the PC adapter for PSVR2, we have yet to see if PS5 Pro will be a success or not but that will be based in the level of acceptance and sony expectations for its sales
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reinking
Gold Member
I always do. I do not buy things I do not want or find value in. I do not know many people that do. The problem is, most people believe if they do not find value then everyone else should vote with their wallets the way that they want them too.
Gamerguy84
Member
Looking around the internet today at systems like Asus rog ally, steamdeck, Nvidia subreddit, and the cost / value of those it's a no brainer for me.
I have a couple PS5 so I'll sell one, I don't even really need two. Plus I have and love the portal, and a large backlog so I hope they send me a preorder. I'm most excited for PSSR
I have a couple PS5 so I'll sell one, I don't even really need two. Plus I have and love the portal, and a large backlog so I hope they send me a preorder. I'm most excited for PSSR
dragonyeuw
Member
That much is evident with how they've priced it, but it seems like there has been a shift in mindset at Sony/Playstation HQ. The PS4 Pro became the default $399 model last gen, and yes there's global economics and inflation etc etc blah blah nowadays, but in general I think Sony intended for that system to still be reasonably accessible to the layman. After dropping the base PS4 to $300, the average gamer could make a case that the $100 upsell to the Pro was worth it without completely blowing their budget.
This time around, little thought seems to be given to giving the 'average' person that same degree of reflection as to what's best. Jumping from $450-$500 to $700 is whole different pricing category. Not to forget an extra $110 for the disc drive and stand, and that's just in the U.S; the price conversions for Europe/UK/Canada and other regions are outright diabolical. It doesn't seem like Sony was too interested in whether or not the 'average' could decide to jump in on this, instead appealing to the diehards with the cash flow to match. Or else they probably would have targeted something like a $599 price point, which still isn't cheap and likely would have required them to drop 1tb of storage, but at least its still within striking distance of the current disc model PS5 and you're then leaving it to the individual player to ala carte the disc drive or pony up for extra storage. There doesn't, from the outside, seem to be a sense of 'let's get this out as cheaply as possible', rather there is an air of exclusivity that wasn't present with PS4-era Sony.
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Fabieter
Member
Is that so? Then why do we criticize loot boxes, microtransactions, always-online requirements, poor-quality GaaS games, and unfinished releases if we can simply choose not to engage with them?
Fabieter
Member
Especially when you think about that the 2b is basically useless for most enthusiastic playstation players.
How long is very long? We will soon be hitting 4 years with no price drop for the ps5 at $499. So will the ps5pro have a price drop to cheaper than $499 in 4 years since the ps6 will be more powerful than the ps5pro when it releases? It might be possible. I don't really understand the pricing of the hardware and if Sony can quickly reduce the price of the ps5pro. Maybe due to backlash they might reduce the price but that is iffy since this wasn't meant to target critical mass market. Will the PS6 Pro be $799 or $899?
PeteBull
Member
Exactly, sony presents u with an offer of pr0 console at their designed specs/price and the games/exclusives, ur choice to bite or not into that.
PeteBull
Member
We wont see ps6 till holidays 2028, by then with current inflation games could be 99$, and console itself 999$, hopefully im wrong but it would be stupid to not take conclusion from current trends =/
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ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
Speaking for the PC... You have no chance of accessing any of the examples you mentioned for free, even illegally. The gaming industry has struggled with piracy for years, and just when people were finally convinced to pay for games, I don't think it's worth making the situation difficult again. Personally, I will continue to buy games legally or not play them at all. However, if they had told me when I was 16—at a time when I didn't have today's ethical values or financial means—that game prices would increase, I probably wouldn't have taken it well.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Ecosystems are really important to business stability, it sees companies through the odd rough patch.
It’s why iPhone continues to be so successful despite all the new Chinese competitors
It’s probably one of the few reasons why anyone is sticking with Xbox now, I imagine at least half of Xbox Series owners became tied to that ecosystem during the 360 days.
12 years from now I could see that possibly happening for the ps7. Maybe not the game price starting at 99. That would most likely be a deluxe edition.
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Team Andromeda
Member
OK JIM.
I don't know what cards you use to play or where you go fishing, but down here in the South Wales valleys, we use a pack of cards that cost less than £5 and where you buy a decent rod, bate and river license for less than the price of a full-price game *rollseyes*
I've seen some piss poor threads/posts trying to defend SONY insanity pricing of the 'shaper' PS5 Pro, but this one takes the biscuit
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dragonyeuw
Member
I do think there is a degree of Sony setting new baselines for the next generation. Very clearly the PS6 will be nothing less than $600. And they're also telling you to expect $80 controllers. The $5 price bump for something they likely sell 2-3 ( minimum guess) per PS user surely moves enough volume to negate 'global economics/inflation', its taking the piss while telling you to expect this in 4 years when the next gen launches.
Someone earlier made a very succinct point and I 100% agree: these companies need to recalibrate their sales expectations if the future is going to be $700 consoles, $70 games( and you just know they're chumping at the bit to raise them again to $80), $80 controllers, $80- $160 annual PSN pricing. The future looks to be extracting as much as they can per user vs trying to grow the userbase, because they simply won't with the pricing creeping in nowadays. Like I can see Sony doing 110-120m this gen, but I wouldn't be shocked if the PS6 is a sub 100m console. Especially if it launches at $600-$700, doesn't drop price and then 3-4 years later a PS6 Pro drops for... what? $800? $900?? I'm not the 'console gaming is dying!' sort but it's gonna be VERY interesting watching this space over the next decade.
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YeulEmeralda
Linux User
If memory serves the average age of gamers has been climbing. Kids are playing on their phones. People in their 30s and up have money (thank Europe for 36 hour workweek!).
RetroGamingUK
Member
The other reason is that millennials were the first generation to stick with gaming into adulthood.
Baby boomers didn’t, many got into mobile games when they got older. My dad never used to play games but now he’s retired he enjoys games like Solitaire on his iPad.
dragonyeuw
Member
Gen X? I was born in 77, first console was a colecovision in 82/83 and been with gaming ever since.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Cool anecdote, most of your generation “outgrew” gaming though.
dragonyeuw
Member
Anecdote? There are plenty of mid 40s( like myself) gen Xers who grew up with gaming and still in the hobby, so regardless of older Xers 'aging' out, your assertion that Milleniels were the first gen to grow up with and game into adulthood is incorrect. If anything people in my age bracket who haven't quite 'aged out', as you put it, likely have more disposable income for gaming than Millennials, especially younger ones in their 30s.
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They will only have some extra serious profit from this thing if it sells enough for the next 4 years. Will it even crack a million sales this year. Plus we don't know how much profit they make on each console after the upgrade and after research development made for this console. I do think this pssr in the pro is simply them practicing for the real deal for the ps6.
I think in 4 years all the parts will cost even more for ps6, and Sony will break even on any console sold at the start of that gen. Maybe at the end of this gen Sony will have sold enough ps5pros to cover all of the losses they made from the last of us online, spiderman online, concord, and that steal from the rich online game that is coming out I think next year.
CeeJay
Member
Not sure about some of those examples in the op. I paid less than £100 for my secondhand acoustic guitar about 20 years ago and play it as much as any game. I will wait though and see how much next gen guitars cost once I can no longer run the current gen songs on it.
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