Saint Gregory
Member
I kind of already know the answer to this question but why is it always junior accounts with no avatars coming into these police brutality threads with these hot takes?
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Cops claim black man advanced on them with knife. Vid shows them shooting him in back
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King of Cups
Member
Shooting does not equal killing. A person trained in firearms and de-escalation should ALWAYS be ready to immobilize a target without fatally wounding them. Or you don't deserve to hold the position of power. Simple as that.
And I can say that because I've lost too many good friends of mine who have been in this situation and lost their lives, one of whom was a former Marine.
There are too many fucking cowboys out there that think because they have a right to bear arms that they actually know what to do with them.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
It's the stupid "bingo" here's another racist ready to defend the white cops. It's annoying because it doesn't provide anything. There were others who screen capped the video and didn't comment further but it's obvious people can also see it from the cops position as well. He did what he was trained to do and maybe there is a problem in that. Maybe cops shouldn't be trained to shoot at the center of mass. Maybe cops shouldn't even have guns. I don't have the answers. I just don't think in my opinion that it was murder. If this happened to me in the street and some guy ran away from me and looked back I wouldn't feel threatened but if I was a cop I 100% would. Cops get shot here in New York while just sitting in their car. Bad cops made the job hard for everyone
It was a video of a cop not being a bloodthirsty animal and exercising restraint on a criminal that had diminished capacity. At some point maybe he should have used deadly force put I commend him for not... to a certain point. The video and Twitter comments were also pretty disappointing in that the damn expectation is for a cop to be a coward and murder as the first solution.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
I agree with you too. But people saying that he murdered the guy for no reason don't understand that it's the law. He didn't do anything that isn't backed up by the law. Protocol says they have to shoot center of mass or they aren't suppose to use the firearm at all. I don't agree with this and believe they should be able to shoot to just wound. It's the laws that need to change but I don't know the guy personally and I don't know if his superior officers made him make that statement. All I was saying is I can see the threat.
llien
Member
Do american laws really allow to arrest someone for driving bike without lights?
"cut you" could be heard (I think). That's not simply "turning around quickly".
"cut you" could be heard (I think). That's not simply "turning around quickly".
TheHoneyDuke
Member
If the guy got in the vehicle and ran over a group of people killing them we would be and rightfully so up in arms on why the cop didn't do his job. The cop failed to do his job in my eyes and no I'm not saying murder the guy. At some point that man needs to be stopped because that video shows at that moment he was a danger to society
teruterubozu
Member
Its not the law. You are describing a training procedure.
No, we completely understand. There is no law that compels the police to shoot the guy. It is not the law that you must shoot a black person fleeing in the back.
The protection in question is INTENTIONALLY interpreted as loosely as possible so that police now have free reign to shoot people. All they have to do is look back at the situation and say "I felt afraid". That is unenforceable.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
I honestly can't make out what he says. I also have never heard of someone getting arrested for not having a light on a bicycle. I would think you would just get a fine.
GreatestHits
Member
Instead of saying "open fire" they should say "kill" when talking about and thinking about what they're doing in the moment. A part of me thinks cops are very numb to what they do to other human beings, because their system of brainwashing omits them from being conscious about what they do, which is kill people and ruin lives on a regular basis. A very sick system
Obviously they are also the ones we appoint to save lives and regulate criminals, so they are given a margin of error along with that responsibility that they have since abused regularly today
Obviously they are also the ones we appoint to save lives and regulate criminals, so they are given a margin of error along with that responsibility that they have since abused regularly today
EdibleKnife
Member
Could you personally hear that because I couldn't. And he was not advancing on them and was shot in the back. So again, if the law is on their side, why lie
Sidewinder
Member
So much incompetence and racism in the US police force, it's crazy, they can't even handle a guy with a broken light on his bicycle without killing him.
People should be protesting 24/7 in the streets until something changes.
People should be protesting 24/7 in the streets until something changes.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
When he turns around and looks to reach for something that gives the officer the right to shoot in the eyes of the law. Compare this to Walter Scott shooting and it's night and day difference. The officer who shot Walter Scott was in no danger when he shot multiple rounds into Walter Scott's back
dragonyeuw
Member
Cue the 'he pick-pocketed when he was 15' character assassination to justify this act.
sephiroth7x
Member
What constitutes a threat to life/serious injury in the USA? I haven't seen the video or seen any screens but have read 75% of the thread and the impression is that this man was unarmed and was pulled over for a bicycle light by three officers?
At what moment are police officers taught to shoot to kill someone? Being from the UK we have these moments very rarely (wont say they don't happen) so I don't understand why at this moment this officer, who had assistance from another two officers felt the need to shoot to kill, especially when one of the officers had a taser ready?
The UK Police Force shot and killed a man on the motorway about a week ago because he was driving erratically on the motorway brandishing a handgun. After boxing the car in and containing the driver, they shot him after being (reportedly) shot at from the car in order to protect public safety. It took them to be shot at and have a gun waved at them to finally fire their own guns, and they had a crash team and an ambulance behind them in the eventuality that this would happen to try and save this mans life in case any of the shots killed him.
Link here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/27/road-near-m5-closed-amid-reports-police-shooting/
In comparison, the US one seems amazingly trivial! (Trivial as in, no reason to shoot him in comparison!)
At what moment are police officers taught to shoot to kill someone? Being from the UK we have these moments very rarely (wont say they don't happen) so I don't understand why at this moment this officer, who had assistance from another two officers felt the need to shoot to kill, especially when one of the officers had a taser ready?
The UK Police Force shot and killed a man on the motorway about a week ago because he was driving erratically on the motorway brandishing a handgun. After boxing the car in and containing the driver, they shot him after being (reportedly) shot at from the car in order to protect public safety. It took them to be shot at and have a gun waved at them to finally fire their own guns, and they had a crash team and an ambulance behind them in the eventuality that this would happen to try and save this mans life in case any of the shots killed him.
Link here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/27/road-near-m5-closed-amid-reports-police-shooting/
In comparison, the US one seems amazingly trivial! (Trivial as in, no reason to shoot him in comparison!)
Chaos2Frozen
Member
At some point I think the children of police officers should start to be feeling ashamed of their parents occupation.
Maybe at that point said parents would begin to realize the results of their organizations actions
Maybe at that point said parents would begin to realize the results of their organizations actions
For the last time, we know. Are you even reading my posts? But let's face it, that's just trying to distract from the issue with semantics.
"Turning around" is generous as he was still shot in the back. He looks over his shoulder because police were literally shouting "Ill fucking shoot you!" if he ran any further. That is not cause to kill a man.
Saint Gregory
Member
We've actually had several threads over the years about videos of US cops exhibiting restraint in the face of armed men acting erratically but never one that I can remember where the armed man was a PoC.
In fact we've had multiple threads where black men were unarmed and complying with instructions but were still shot (the gas station incident and the guy in Florida trying to protect the learning impared man) but fortunately not killed.
Fug Slanderson
Member
What, were they supposed to chase him or something? That sounds like way too much work.
sephiroth7x
Member
This... just as a human, makes me sad. What else is a person supposed to do if they are complying 100% and are still shot?
And I won't hem all Police Officers into 1 bag and say they are all terrible people. I expect that 95% of all officers go to work to do the very best they can to protect their communities. Its a shame bad eggs always ruin it... something simple like this can ruin a generation of youths into believing that the police are against them.
That's why I said to a certain point. I think he did good in exercising restraint not normally seen by these cowards. I agree he should have made a decision after a certain point though.
llien
Member
What I see in video is quite a bit different, or at least, not as unambiguous as what is described in OP (a grave crime). At 0:18 he starts to run, but 0:21-22 he is standing, facing (half turned to) policeman, quite close. (if you speed down youtube video the fact that he is not running at those moments can be seen) 22-23 I could hear something like "cut you".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=20&v=vRCl_LJVs-4
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
What's there to comment? Firearms should be kept away from shitheads like you.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
That's all there's to it.
Guys...you've got them all wrong. As a white person, I know that black people are so superhuman that this guy could have pedaled his bike so fast that he could cycle around the globe, Superman style, come back behind the officer, and get the backstab. Completely justified shooting. This is elementary stuff, guys.
Sarcasm, if not completely obvious already.
dragonyeuw
Member
Perhaps running away from the police( obviously to no avail) is a flight or fright reaction to the very real danger than US police have proven to be to Black american males? Let's be real here, any white person being stopped by the police very likely doesn't have the same feeling of dread that a black person would have when confronted by them. The reaction is instinctive. Too many black lives have been lost due to excessive reactions to what should be routine matters. I'm a black man, thank god Non-American or living in the US, and I'd be shitting my fucking pants if a cop approached me.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
I don't think everyone read the whole whole article not saying you didn't. He was stopped for the light and a violation he made when riding. I looks like they pulled up his file and saw he had a warrant for aggravated assault. The family says they believe he suffered from mental health problems. Now try to paint the picture from the cops position without automatically assuming he was out to murder the man. I can't here it in the tape but others say they can here the man threaten the police officer that he will cut them. When he goes for his waist do you take the chance?
Saint Gregory
Member
In this country? Not be black.
I'm not even joking. The primary thing I've learned from seeing all of these videos is that US police officers as a whole seem to be terrified of black men. We've definitely had a few cases where the cops seemed to be driven by anger or laziness to shoot but the vast majority of them seem to act out of unwarranted fear. The fact that the justice system doesn't hold them responsible for these killing leads them to lean towards shooting black men at the drop of a hat since it's the path of least resistance. In cases where there's no video you won't even see a news story about it most of the time.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
As a minority I 100% agree with you.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
People aren't trained to shoot to immobilize that goes from police officers on down to recreational shooters. You are taught to shoot for the largest surface area, which is the chest area. In a situation where you need to use your firearm you do not want to aim at arms or legs as they are much harder to hit and will be moving a lot more than the chest.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
Isn't it forbidden to give a warning shot? This isn't the movies
sephiroth7x
Member
Like I say, makes me sad. I am not saying for one minute racism doesn't exist in the UK (because it clearly still does) but not on this level. It really does baffle me...
methane47
Member
Well lets look at a recent occurance with a white person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJgTR5hO9NI
What did he mean by this?
Member
I dont take the chance. I murder him do some paperwork lie about what happened attend paper trials then move on with my happy life after collecting backpay
TheHoneyDuke
Member
Someone already showed that video and I commented saying that the cop failed to do his job and endangered everyone's life. The cop in this video and the cop in the thread topic are two different cops. That cop fucked up.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
They're going to have to prove the knife found at the scene was planted to get any traction on this case, and that's obviously an uphill battle.
dragonyeuw
Member
Don't know about that, but leaving life or death in the hands of a cop with their own arbitrary biases and fears is scary as fuck. But the written law means these cops don't have to be culpable, they don't have to be trained to effectively de-escalate. Just shoot to kill, and say they feared for their lives after the fact. Case closed.
no one will answer but i took this article and put it on my facebook asking the multiple people why they are more offended at their perceived disrespect of symbols than they are about people getting unjustly shot in the back.
just ridiculous. Every one of these pisses me the fuck off and im just some white guy. I dont have to live with this threat every day.
I love that the guardian actually linked to two statements saying cops are rarely every charged and almost never convicted.
just ridiculous. Every one of these pisses me the fuck off and im just some white guy. I dont have to live with this threat every day.
I love that the guardian actually linked to two statements saying cops are rarely every charged and almost never convicted.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Whereas the guy who killed this Man, just incase, was simply doing what police should do.
Don't properly restrain and allow to escape.
Threaten to kill him if he continues to flee.
Kill him when he stops.
Lie about what happened.
Face zero consequences.
Yep, youre right. The cop in this instance certainly made no mistakes and did nothing wrong. He did his job! Fuck a taser. If a man flees, let him know you're about to kill that ass! Then kill him!
The cop who didn't kill the guy who chased him, crashed into his car and then fled, wasn't doing his job properly. He tried to do his job while preserving life at risk to his own! Disgusting! No cop should do that. If youre a criminal then fuck your life! Somebodies father/son should be died that day. Smdh. Amateur. Centre mass, idiot. It's in the training, am I right?
What you think a cop is supposed to be doing and their job entails is scary as fuck.
TheHoneyDuke
Member
You have a problem with the protocol that's fine. Maybe cops shouldn't carry guns like in other places in the world. I don't have the answers. But to say that the cop murdered him in cold blood is wrong. First cop that stopped him for the riding violation wasn't out to arrest him so we need to stop with the whole he got shot for riding his bike. The cop calls for back up when he finds the man has a warrant out for his arrest for aggravated assault. One cop does a shitty job of restraining the man and he uses it to escape and pushes the cop. How are we suppose to know that the cop who shot him did so premeditated. To me it just looks like a fucked up situation that the cop who fired got put in. I don't wish death on anyone but I do believe that you should value your own life and the life of your loved ones as well
Are you insane or did you just get this from a movie?
meanwhile, privilege on display here: https://twitter.com/common/status/916219673657692161
Guns should only be drawn if there's intent to use them and they should only be fired if there's intent to kill. Warning shots are for video games and movies and anyone who suggests that debilitating shots are feasible have no idea how the reality of these situations actually work.
None of this is even relevant to this incident though because guns shouldn't have been drawn at all - fullstop. End of discussion.
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