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[JonathanEx]

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/747075079977246720

More Shadow Cabinet resignations coming after 4pm.

Ah good it's been a quiet afternoon

 

[nOoblet16]

These guys are just using sacking of Benn and Remain losing as an opportunity. It's so obvious but I guess these guys need to play dirty politics when we need it the least.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Waiting til after the football. Wise.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

These guys are just using sacking of Benn and Remain losing as an opportunity. It's so obvious but I guess these guys need to play dirty politics when we need it the least.

Chilcot's coming up in a few days too, which probably isn't a cooincidence

 

[D4Danger]

Petition for his resignation

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...&source=facebook-share-button&time=1466937484

Resignation: 127
A vote of confidence: 182,251

Labour MPs know the only way to beat him is to make him resign because he will certainly win any member vote.

 

[emigre]

I can confirm I have not resigned from the Shadow Cabinet

 

[dumbo]

Except they didn't do that, the prison population went up under Labour, they created new offences, walked back on softening their drugs policy, and created things like ASBOs and Imprisonment For Public Protection which allows prisoners to be detained pretty much forever.

And what, specifically, are the negative effects of immigration and what should (toughly, always toughly) be done about them?

I think you mostly answered your own question - people perceive a problem with immigration, but that problem is a bit 'nebulous' to put it mildly. Similarly crime was not statistically a huge problem in the UK, nor were labour 'soft on crime' before that slogan, and the actions of the labour government didn't really change anything either... [AFAIR crime was/is continuously falling in most categories, regardless of government initiatives and changes].

The point wasn't that Labour's policy made a difference (in truth, few policies seem to achieve anything positive) but that they 'owned the issue'.

For example, some random ideas:
- maybe the idea of a "flexible minimum wage" to counter the effects of immigration.
- promise extra funding to councils/NHS to tackle the increased strain of immigration. (e.g. re-introduce the fund that the tories cut)
- increased 'integration' via more funding for English lessons, promotion of British Culture etc.
- hire an expert on EU law and ask them what sort of thing other countries are doing, and what we can legally do to counter voter's concerns.
etc.

I'm not a strategist, give me EU4 and I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, but there are ways to "deal with people's fears" without needing to suggest the completely impossible "free unicorns" or "immigration in the tens of thousands".

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Do you think their fears about immigration are justified? If so, what is your evidence that immigration is the cause of all their ills? If not, do you think we should indulge those sentiments even though they're baseless? And what would you suggest be done instead?

EDIT: I'm not asking this to be a dick, but because I hear a lot of people saying "voters are anti-immigration" etc, but with no followup about what that actually means or what is to be done about it. Does it mean invest massively into deprived areas so immigration is no longer a scapegoat? Does it mean try and convince voters that immigration is not the root problem? Does it mean go along with xenophobia to try and win popularity? No-one seems to have specifics. Meanwhile the last couple of decades of racist dogwhistling from both Labour and the Tories have brought us to this point, a Labour leader who actively nixed plans to use immigration as a scapegoat is being knifed by his own party, I as a minority am confronted by growing racist abuse, and all anyone wants to talk about are the "very serious concerns" about immigration

No I don't. But they won't listen because they do not think that he is concerned with them first and foremost.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Labour and Conservatives both a mess. This will give rise to UKIP.

They may get 2 MPs next time.

 

[Baybars]

Someone said corbyn is principled. I couldnt stop laughing. The guy couldnt wait to leave europe, sabotaged the remain campaign and generally looked like a wet fish trying to convince people into something he did not believe in.

Nothing principled about that. God give me milliband over this guy

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

If the Liberals are smart, they'll put out an olive branch to the centrist wing of the party. Labour is a slowly sinking ship.

 

[OverBlood 3]

Someone said corbyn is principled. I couldnt stop laughing. The guy couldnt wait to leave europe, sabotaged the remain campaign and generally looked like a wet fish trying to convince people into something he did not believe in.

Nothing principled about that. God give me milliband over this guy

Every criticism of Corbyn seems to manifest from their own slanted idea of the actual reality. Utterly ridiculous and untrue. He didn't want to share a platform with Conservatives because he genuinely doesn't like them, his contempt is visible. Thank fuck he did what he did.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Every criticism of Corbyn seems to manifest from their own slanted idea of the actual reality. Utterly ridiculous and untrue. He didn't want to share a platform with Conservatives because he genuinely doesn't like them, his contempt is visible. Thank fuck he did what he did.

'It's not my job to criticise the conservatives'- Jeremy Corbyn, Vice documentary.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Kinder, gentler politics in action.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Glad they're leaving. Sick of these Tory lite neo libs. Not an ounce of integrity among them. THEY fucked the party from the start by trying to fuck him over, the leader selected by the damn people they're supposed to be representing.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Glad they're leaving. Sick of these Tory lite neo libs. Not an ounce of integrity among them. THEY fucked the party from the start by trying to fuck him over, the leader selected by the damn people they're supposed to be representing.

Tell me, how much campaigning have you done for the Labour party?

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Tell me, how much campaigning have you done for the Labour party?

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, so if you have something to say then say it straight.

 

[kharma45]

Vernon Coaker gone

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, so if you have something to say then say it straight.

That your understanding of the situation is not based upon reality.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

That your understanding of the situation is not based upon reality.

I disagree.

However next time just cut the snark.

 

[cyberheater]

I've never seen such actions in my lifetime. It really is unprecedented.

Come on Corbyn. Fuck off and give someone else a chance.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Corbyn is a shit leader, and that's from someone who used to support him. He's weak and placid.

 

[Baybars]

Glad they're leaving. Sick of these Tory lite neo libs. Not an ounce of integrity among them. THEY fucked the party from the start by trying to fuck him over, the leader selected by the damn people they're supposed to be representing.

The last so called tory lite leader the labour party had, well he led them to a general election victory. Good luck winning an election with a socialist leftist manifesto in a country geared more to the centre right. At least bernie sanders has passion. Corbyn can't excite a bunch of drug lords stranded in an opium field

 

[Maledict]

I disagree.

However next time just cut the snark.

You're the person saying that the only party which delivered on left wing proposals in the last 40 years is somehow Tory-lite. I think that goes a bit beyond snark.

 

[Empty]

Glad they're leaving. Sick of these Tory lite neo libs. Not an ounce of integrity among them. THEY fucked the party from the start by trying to fuck him over, the leader selected by the damn people they're supposed to be representing.

as opposed to the mp's who don't represent any voters in this country and were just magicked out of thin air

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I disagree.

However next time just cut the snark.

It's an important part of this conversation. If you don't campaign, if you don't talk to the voters in a party capacity then you're not going to be in a position to tell everyone else what the Labour voters think.

 

[Giant Panda]

Labor needs to bring back the Blairites if they want to have a chance at winning. And actually good policies.

 

[cyberheater]

Corbyn is a shit leader, and that's from someone who used to support him. He's weak and placid.

Yep. He's not leadership material. He needs to step down.

 

[Jezbollah]

Not sure if this was posted:

Backbench ‏(@Backbench_UK)
Iain McNicol, Labour’s general secretary, has received legal advice that he should not put Corbyn on the ballot paper unless the PLP does so

EDIT:

It's now in double digits:

George Eaton ‏(@georgeeaton)
Charlie Falconer becomes tenth shadow cabinet departure today.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Lord Falconer out

 

[mjontrix]

Labour and Conservatives both a mess. This will give rise to UKIP.

They may get 2 MPs next time.

If theres even a thought of both sides refusing to follow through with the referendum UKIP probably wins, once Remain splits between the two other parties. Increase that chance drastically if Scotland somehow leaves the UK before the election since only London will really have a sizable Remain group left as well.

 

[D4Danger]

Not sure if this was posted:

Backbench ‏(@Backbench_UK)
Iain McNicol, Labour’s general secretary, has received legal advice that he should not put Corbyn on the ballot paper unless the PLP does so

EDIT:

It's now in double digits:

George Eaton ‏(@georgeeaton)
Charlie Falconer becomes tenth shadow cabinet departure today.

They're really think labour members who overwhelmingly support Corbyn would just accept that? Absolute nonsense.

 

[Jezbollah]

They're really think labour members who overwhelmingly support Corbyn would just accept that? Absolute nonsense.

What will they do if they dont like any of the candidates? Not vote?

From that tweet it looks like there is no legal way he gets on the ballot without the 35 MP backing. That's endgame for JC.

 

[D4Danger]

What will they do if they dont like any of the candidates? Not vote?

From that tweet it looks like there is no legal way he gets on the ballot without the 35 MP backing. That's endgame for JC.

That would be extraordinary. Who do these people even represent if the only way they can win is by leaving off the people's choice?

 

[gutter_trash]

Canadian political parties have been criticized for their parties being too tightly knit with MPs walking in lock-step with their leadership with Party Unity.

Westminster however, you guys are the opposite, you have in-fighting within each major parties to the point that those parties put their inner-politicking interests before the good of the country

after seeing the total disaster of this Brexit, I will take my Canadian disciplined MPs who walk in lock-step with their party and then the mess at Westminster

I rather have stability with less democracy than seing total in-fighting in a party ruining the entire country.

 

[Wes]

All these timed resignation. None during the Ireland game. Falconer goes minutes before the 6 o'clock news.

Watson angling for the job?

 

[Jezbollah]

That would be extraordinary. Who do these people even represent if the only way they can win is by leaving off the people's choice?

It would be - at the same time it would be extraordinary that a leader of a political party fails to resign after a vote of no confidence - which is also something we may see..

 

[SymbiantXenos]

New general election this year it is then.

 

[DCharlie]

The last so called tory lite leader the labour party had, well he led them to a general election victory.

and given how it all worked out do you think the voters required to get back in are going to trust The Blair Tribute Band version of Labour?

I like Corbyn but i don't think he can attract the votes but i honestly don't see Blairites being able to do it either -because- of the Blair association.

If Corbyn isn't the answer, than neither is this. I got into this with a friend who is part of the party and we fundamentally disagreed and i was somewhat dismayed at the "well, the last time we did -this- so let's do -that- again!" mindset :/

I want Labour to be something different.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Canadian political parties have been criticized for their parties being too tightly knit with MPs walking in lock-step with their leadership with Party Unity.

Westminster however, you guys are the opposite, you have in-fighting within each major parties to the point that those parties put their inner-politicking interests before the good of the country

after seeing the total disaster of this Brexit, I will take my Canadian disciplined MPs who walk in lock-step with their party and then the mess at Westminster

I rather have stability with less democracy than seing total in-fighting in a party ruining the entire country.

This is very recent, though. If you go back to, e.g., 1985, the UK was renowned for having the most disciplined party system in the world. Even the 2000s were remarkably disciplined, aside from a few events like the Iraq war. This turmoil is not at all anywhere near the norm.

 

[Fevaweva]

Glad they're leaving. Sick of these Tory lite neo libs. Not an ounce of integrity among them. THEY fucked the party from the start by trying to fuck him over, the leader selected by the damn people they're supposed to be representing.

Totally agree. Those Blair-ite fucker can crawl back under the rocks they came from.

 

[Beefy]

That's 9 gone now right? How many more to go?

 

[Jezbollah]

Glad they're leaving. Sick of these Tory lite neo libs. Not an ounce of integrity among them. THEY fucked the party from the start by trying to fuck him over, the leader selected by the damn people they're supposed to be representing.

The problem is that there seems to be a major incompatibility between the leader that the Labour members voted for, and the leader the Labour electorate want.

Its really a choice between you having a party leadership that appeals to you or you having a party that stands chance of being elected, at the end of the day. If Labour under Corbyn was the latter, then you wouldn't be seeing the events of today.

 

[Baybars]

and given how it all worked out do you think the voters required to get back in are going to trust The Blair Tribute Band version of Labour?

I like Corbyn but i don't think he can attract the votes but i honestly don't see Blairites being able to do it either -because- of the Blair association.

If Corbyn isn't the answer, than neither is this. I got into this with a friend who is part of the party and we fundamentally disagreed and i was somewhat dismayed at the "well, the last time we did -this- so let's do -that- again!" mindset :/

I want Labour to be something different.

Nah. Working class folks will vote for blair in a blink of an eye even right now. Those northern cities who are worried about immigration are not going to vote for a clown like corbyn who dismisses people's concerns as simply racist

 

[Humidex]

That's 9 gone now right? How many more to go?

Possibly one more. Watson has just declined to back Jeremy...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ow-ministers-resign-in-protests-jeremy-corbyn

 

[ghst]

new labour's pivot was to remain socially liberal while becoming economically conservative.

to get back their working class base, on many issues, they'll need to do the opposite.

 

[DCharlie]

Nah. Working class folks will vote for blair in a blink of an eye even right now. Those northern cities who are worried about immigration are not going to vote for a clown like corbyn who dismisses people's concerns as simply racist

i'm from a working class town in the north and it won't matter who is in charge of Labour, people will vote Labour (at least on the West side)

But , yeah, that's not who Labour need to win - it's the marginals and some of the CONs (and now UKIP etc). This is where Blair was able to appeal to them but now his reputation is largely hurt , and may well be in tatters after Chilcot, i'm really not sure how it'd work.

 

[hohoXD123]

.

 

[Maledict]

new labour's pivot was to remain socially liberal while becoming economically conservative.

to get back their working class base, on many issues, they'll need to do the opposite.

This is completely the opposite of reality.

The working class vote STILL prefers Blair over any other Labour leader - that's what the post 2015 research showed! the working class base does not want Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn's voting base was the trade union leadership and white, middle class liberals in London. That is not a winning coalition.

Like it or not, no amount of patronising will get away from the fact the only time Labour has won in my lifetime is by taking a New Labour approach and talking about more than the bottom 10% and the top 10%. It's so incredibly patronising of us liberals to think that Blair was Satan incarnate and that if we just explain ourselves properly the people who voted for him, and now vote Tory, will realise their mistake and come home.

 

[Par Score]

Whatever the legal position, and I understand from previous failed coups that by the book he should be on the ballot, if Corbyn wants to be on the ballot he should be.

If he's blocked then Labour is well and truly finished as a mass movement. They'll lose half their membership overnight.