ferrasvansen
Member
Yep true, but labour will pay a price. I will have a flutter on Labour winning less than 100 seats at next election, outwith of London they will be obliterated, easy money.
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Corbyn sacks Hilary Benn, Half Shadow cabinet expected to resign today (Labour)
- Thread starter Tak3n
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Yep true, but labour will pay a price. I will have a flutter on Labour winning less than 100 seats at next election, outwith of London they will be obliterated, easy money.
maybe he'd made a bigger impact he hadn't been sabotaged by his own party at every turn since the beginning.
The vast majority of the party were in the 'let's make it work' camp. If 25 arsey MPs can stop you being leader then you shouldn't be in the job any ways. Even fringing Cameron managed better and there's at least 50+ conservative MPs who would have boiled him alive for fun.
And it wasn't the 25 blairites who rucked up Labours 'In' campaign. When Kate HOEY gets more mainstream press coverage on Europe than the leader does something is very very wrong with the party.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
He doesn't have the base. You don't even know what the base is. The base is the North East, Yorkshire, the de industrialised areas that voted leave.
ferrasvansen
Member
Who will now vote UKIP.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Corbyns base are young, middle class liberals in London. That's the only area of the county to be doing better under his leadership than before. That same group of people are some of the most pro-European people in the country, and Corbyns deliberate failure during the refendum is being plastered over all the news right now.
In our own Uk politics thread we have numerous Corbyn voters saying they regret their decision and will vote differently this time. All they need is an actual decent candidate to stand up.
For a leadership challenge to happen there would need to actually be a challenger. Hilary Benn isn't going to cut it.
I wonder if these Labour MPs will actually stop throwing their toys out of the pram once Corbyn gets elected for a second time by the members, because it got embarrassing a while ago.
I wonder if these Labour MPs will actually stop throwing their toys out of the pram once Corbyn gets elected for a second time by the members, because it got embarrassing a while ago.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not actually sure that's true. I mean, yes, Corbyn did very well among lefty-liberal young London metropolitans, but there aren't enough of them to win the Labour leadership. Corbyn absolutely dominated all the other three candidates among working class Labour voters; middle- and high-income were much more likely to plump for Burnham or Cooper. Those working class Labour voters were very likely to be Brexit.
I think the Labour party is in for a really rough time. It's going to have a proper showdown between industrial Labour and urban(e) Labour, and god knows what will still be standing afterwards.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
This is scorched earth, and the party machine will move with the PLP and not Corbyn. Corbyn is going to have to start out with a new 'Momentum' Party.
Just wanted to say that this sort of purity test stuff is totally bullshit right now. We have had 6 years of disastrous Conservative government and we've never been further than we are right now from getting them out of power. foh with "labour are just tory-lite", you really think the "blairites" you despise so much would have led us crashing out of the EU? Despite all the ways in which he was an utter disaster, Blair was the most pro-EU leader this country ever had. You think they would have unleashed all of this hate? Lead the UK to the brink of dissolution?
What we need now is a party who can win an election and get the tories out of power. Sorry if the leader isn't perfect for you but that doesn't fucking matter right now. Leaders of political parties should be there to win election. Corbyn isn't capable of that, even his biggest supporters don't think so anymore. Maybe try thinking about what is the best for the country right now, instead of being so self indulgent.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I think he would struggle to get the 35 votes from MPs he would need to be nominated again.
Jezbollah
Member
Corbyn will not get enough votes to be part of a new leader ballot.
Given that Corbyn was elected in the first place despite the hysteria in the media, I think it's safe to say that his support base don't give a shit about what the media has to say.
If that happens then it's about the worst thing they can do to alienate their members.
Corbyn really is quite loathsome. It was clear he never really supported Remain and just went through the motions while privately backing Leave. His obnoxious attitude towards the press, where he frequently chooses to ignore when they question him, shows him up for the amateur he is.
Oh, and anyone who frequents Press TV and Russia Today to moan about the West is nothing but a total arsehole.
Oh, and anyone who frequents Press TV and Russia Today to moan about the West is nothing but a total arsehole.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
As present leader, he would automatically be on the ballot.
Jezbollah
Member
The members take a back seat to the voting public. Would you rather have Corbyn as leader or keep a third of your votes in the next election?
Is that absolutely the case? Last thing I saw in the Guardian article I linked earlier was that even the leader himself still required the 35 MP votes to be on the challenge ballot?
ferrasvansen
Member
That is the unknown thing here, some folk speaking on tv earlier reckoned this is questionable and will need some serious legal wrangling to sort out.
I have to hand it to Corbyn, given that since day 1 people have been trying to overthrow and undermine him, he's hung on pretty admirably. I know if I was in his shoes I would have gone "fuck it, you lot figure it out" long before now. I think he's done okay and held on to more than he should have, considering the organised character assassination attempts from the media, the Tories, and his own party.
But fine, bin him. There's nobody waiting in the wings who will unite the PLP and the membership, so Labour are still fucked in 2020.
But fine, bin him. There's nobody waiting in the wings who will unite the PLP and the membership, so Labour are still fucked in 2020.
We could be on the verge of a complete realignment in British politics. You could easily see labour and the Tories splitting, with the centrist Tories and labour joining together in pro-EU alliance.
Of course, a proportional voting system would be needed for that. UKIP were calling for one after the last election, but it seems to have died down now. Will be interesting to see if any party bites the bullet and goes for it.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Really? I genuinely didn't know that. Well, in that case, it's going to take nothing less than a bruising general election defeat to get him out. Hopefully Johnson will call an early election when he takes power, but I can't imagine he will unless he absolutely has to.
Belief in the person you voted for is not "dogmatic".
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Unwavering loyalty and myopic disregard of all their glaring flaws, creating a cult of personality and the demand for absolute adherence to his 'authority' are dogma.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Sounds exactly like the Blair years to me
According to Peston It is going to be these guys plus two more.
Angela eagle
Tom Watson
Gloria de Peiro
Maria eagle
Lucy Powell
Hilary benn
Heid Alexander
Luciana Berger
Chris Bryant
Vernon coaker
JonathanEx
Member
Ah yes - I've seen tweets saying his team have legal advice suggesting that, but there might be attempts to dispute that.
Just to make things even messier.
Fernando Fernandez
Member
When the Deputy quits then that is big news, I hope he doesn't expect to be on the ballot when it comes to the next election.
P.good Paul Mason column here https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-leader-brexit-labour-rebels-sabotage
travisbickle
Member
The Labour Party is now a threat to our national security, our economic security and your family's security. - David Cameron.
That is dogma. Kind of thing that would have been shouted from the pulpit 60 years ago.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Labour is done lol
Honey Bunny
Member
So amazing
i want Corbyn to hang in till the bitter end.
i want Corbyn to hang in till the bitter end.
Agent Gibbs
Member
I take it this is all in relation to this? > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238
Sure in other threads someone mentioned the independent has a similar story about Corbyn avoiding campaigning to stay
Sure in other threads someone mentioned the independent has a similar story about Corbyn avoiding campaigning to stay
Bony Manifesto
Member
The dangers of auto-correct!
Fair enough.
SprachBrooks
Member
Good legislation is underpinned by good ideas. Alternatives have worse ideas and will pass largely compromised legislation.
Fernando Fernandez
Member
Over the past year I've grown a lot of respect for Andy Burnham
At an uncertain time like this for our country, I cannot see how it makes sense for the Opposition to plunge itself into a civil war. 1/3
I have never taken part in a coup against any Leader of the Labour Party and I am not going to start now. 2/3
It is for our members to decide who leads our Party & 10 months ago they gave Jeremy Corbyn a resounding mandate. I respect that & them. 3/3
At an uncertain time like this for our country, I cannot see how it makes sense for the Opposition to plunge itself into a civil war. 1/3
I have never taken part in a coup against any Leader of the Labour Party and I am not going to start now. 2/3
It is for our members to decide who leads our Party & 10 months ago they gave Jeremy Corbyn a resounding mandate. I respect that & them. 3/3
CyclopsRock
Member
Blair won 3 elections and, in doing so, doubled spending on both the NHS and Education, lowered poverty and homelessness etc etc. Would the people of GAF prefer that to Corbyn electoral destruction? I dunno...
That's because he's a spineless shit. He is deeply unpopular with the PLP for how badly he ran against Corbyn and then how quickly he swallowed his pride and got into bed with him despite what he said on the campaign. This is a typical Andy manoeuvre - he won't join the campaign, but hopes to step in and win the leadership off the back of it.
It won't happen again.
I dunno what you mean - but Cameron's strategists will have pointed out that Corbyn was obviously weak on defence. His historical links to groups that the UK considers terrorists, his anti-nuclear stance, his permanent pacifism etc.
If Corbyn was 'pro-heroin', then Cameron would have launched an attack on that topic instead.
But this has nothing to do with 'dogma', or anything that Cameron believes in. It's just basic politics.
JonathanEx
Member
Also he wants to be Manc mayor - and to do that needs to be selected by the members. Doesn't want to rock that boat if they're full of Corbynites.
But he's a Tory!!!!
I understand Iraq is a hated decision - I marched against it at the time. I will never forgive him for it, but to pretend that labour was just the Tory party under Blair is to literally ignore reality - thr party pumped massive amounts of money into the welfare system and to improving people's lives. Be it sure start to NHS funding to education, to even basic stuff like making local government focus on crime reduction - Labour did huge amounts of progressive things.
Surprised with Watson TBH.
Do you think the Labour party led by somebody other than Corbyn would be worse than the Conservative and/or UKIP? That's what matters. Compromise is a necessary part of politics.
It's also not relevant. British politics has transformed completely since Blair left power. Labour needs to adapt or die. Some labour party members are still too hung up on Blair.
ferrasvansen
Member
This whole situation is pretty sad, i remember decorating my street in Labour banners in 1983, posters and stickers and banners again in 1987. I never believed a party i walked the streets trying to win support for in a Tory/Snp heartland in 1992 would be in such a state. I will never vote Labour again, it is pretty sad in a way, but that is life and for the first time tomorrow i will join another party, a day i never thought would happen.
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