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[frankie_baby]

Are you serious? Skin color belongs to groups of people, and have been used in the past to prejudice and stigmatize these groups of people. Hair and eye color have not .

Skin colour is just cells on a the outside of a body, we are all equal so we are all free to look however we want whenever we want, yeah bad things happened in the past but the only way to consign racism to the past where it belongs is to stop making bullshit comparisons between innocent behaviour of today and the far from innocent actions of then

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Skin colour is just cells on a the outside of a body, we are all equal so we are all free to look however we want whenever we want, yeah bad things happened in the past but the only way to consign racism to the past where it belongs is to stop making bullshit comparisons between innocent behaviour of today and the far from innocent actions of then

How can I get to your time line where melanin is no longer an issue and all people are treated equally?

I have many credits

 

[bishoptl]

Skin colour is just cells on a the outside of a body, we are all equal so we are all free to look however we want whenever we want, yeah bad things happened in the past but the only way to consign racism to the past where it belongs is to stop making bullshit comparisons between innocent behaviour of today and the far from innocent actions of then

 

[Aurongel]

I don't understand how some people feel it's okay to discount her intent and the context around the cosplay itself. Even if it is poor taste and misguided (which I think it absolutely is), are we really going to label this woman's cosplay as equally offensive as something like this:

...Which was created with the sole intent to offend and belittle?

 

[Sidewinder]

Are you serious? Skin color belongs to groups of people, and have been used in the past to prejudice and stigmatize these groups of people. Hair and eye color have not .

Hitler says otherwise.

 

[harSon]

I wish some other threads received a fraction of the discussion that threads about the handful of things in life that are not squarely in favor of white people do. The rights of people to represent us down to our skin color and features, and say 'Nigga' are pretty far down my list of what I'd consider to be incredibly important social issues - and yet - these are among the few topics of this nature we get past the first page.

 

[DY_nasty]

I don't understand how some people feel it's okay to discount her intent and the context around the cosplay itself. Even if it is poor taste (which I think it absolutely is), are we really going to label this woman's cosplay as equally offensive as something like this:

...Which was created with the sole intent to offend and belittle?

Obviously not.

 

[EloquentM]

Skin colour is just cells on a the outside of a body, we are all equal so we are all free to look however we want whenever we want, yeah bad things happened in the past but the only way to consign racism to the past where it belongs is to stop making bullshit comparisons between innocent behaviour of today and the far from innocent actions of then

What reality you living in bro?

 

[Two Words]

You don't have to be hateful to be racist.

You can just be ignorant. Honestly, that's a lot easier to deal with.

Until people start trying to defend ignorance by belittling history, telling others to get over it, or any other form of gymnastics.

She can be perfectly knowledgable about blackface and do that without being racist. Racism != ignorance.

 

[Kurdel]

As a defense of the blackface impulse, have you ever looked in the mirror and saw the character you were disguised as? In your mind you must mentally substract the things that clash with the person you are trying to embody. Immitating skin color is easiest way to pull it off, but is super risky because you run the risk of offending everyone who isn't in your head loking at yourself in a mirror.

I won't defend people who go through with it, but I can understand their egocentric train of thought.

edit: To be clear, this is when someone isn't disguising themselves as a race (which isn't a costume), but as a character from a different racial group than yours.

 

[ISOM]

Skin colour is just cells on a the outside of a body, we are all equal so we are all free to look however we want whenever we want, yeah bad things happened in the past but the only way to consign racism to the past where it belongs is to stop making bullshit comparisons between innocent behaviour of today and the far from innocent actions of then

I don't see the point of trying to reduce this problem from a cultural one to a biological one. It's pointless in fact because people and societies don't exist in vacuums. Racism and prejudice existed in the past and they exist today. And I was not talking particularly about the OP when you responded to my post.

 

[Soccer4life]

People are just sensitive toward anything these days.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I don't understand how some people feel it's okay to discount her intent and the context around the cosplay itself. Even if it is poor taste (which I think it absolutely is), are we really going to label this woman's cosplay as equally offensive as something like this:

...Which was created with the sole intent to offend and belittle?

Calmer heads aren't saying that the costume wasn't intended to be offensive, just that blackface in general isn't a good idea, and then her "haters gonna hate" when it was brought to her attention was suspect.

 

[Foffy]

I think racism is based on intent. Is she making fun of the character? Like, does this come from a position of mockery or hatred?

People seldom look at intent today, and instead assume a one size fits all model for things that are offensive.

This looks like one of those examples.

And holy shit I didn't realize this was 21 pages.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Idk, it's obviously not black face. But changing ones skin color to a minority for the sake of entertainment reminds people of black face type shit.

So while it's not racists, it reminds people of it which makes people not like it, or something.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I'm ok with it. It's part of being true to the character as a dedicated cosplayer. It's not a caricature of a large group of people with common racial characteristics. It's an homage to one person. Some people need to stop living in the past and check their entitlement.

 

[Two Words]

LOL you suck at making comparisons

dying

My comparison was only that she was portraying a particular character, much like how people portraying Hearh Ledger's Joker. I was not saying people portraying Heath's Joker makes the OP cosplay okay.

 

[Rembrandt]

yeah, this isn't racist, lol.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'm ok with it. It's part of being true to the character as a dedicated cosplayer. It's not a caricature of a large group of people with common racial characteristics. It's an homage to one person. Some people need to stop living in the past and check their entitlement.

You're also ok with employees making blatantly racist comments at work so

Check what?

 

[Camp Lo]

As a black woman, I' not going to say this is racist or not, but I have a query for something I've never understood. When black people cosplay as non-black characters, we do so without painting our skin white or something. We revel in our blackness and put a new spin on the character. How come any time I see a white person have a black character costume, they have to go to extremes and paint themselves black?

That said, for her credit, her use of makeup is incredible and she gives a lot of respect towards the character.

I do not understand it. I truly feel that it's no one will know who I am unless I do this which is really the sad part because they fuck up what would have otherwise been a great costume. No one's going to ask "well, why didn't you paint your skin?" If you roll up in that get-up without it.

 

[TimeEffect]

So is IASIP disregarded the same way Tropic Thunder is?

The show revolves around these shitty people doing shitty things, but I'm curious because when it's deemed to be self-aware, it seems it becomes okay (judging by the first few pages of this thread).

 

[Mononoke]

EDIT: Nevermind, Read the girls quote, sounds like she doesn't mind being ignorant (and even trying to reason with her, wouldn't matter).

 

[Synless]

What she did is racist. She now knows better hopefully.

I disagree, it's cosplay and she did it far better than most people would put in effort for. It would have been racist if she walked around making all types of stereotypes while dressed as a black person, which she didn't.

 

[blitzcloud]

I guess in cosplaying 'accuracy' is something they take a lot of pride in, but they don't really need to. I mean, my sister is really big into Star Wars cosplay -- she even goes to places like Comic Con and does fund raisers and stuff. She primarily likes to cosplay as the stormtrooper-style of characters. I would point a few things out that she does:

1) She gives herself space for her chest. This is, afaik, not cannon -- I don't even know if there are female stormtroopers in the movies, but I doubt it. So, this is a change in the costume, it's not 'cannon' or whatever, but nobody *ever* has ever, or will ever point it out to her. In all other things her costume is perfect. So, you know, you can change things, and as long as the intent and spirit of the costume is in the right place, accuracy for the sake of accuracy is not really necessary.

2) She makes other changes to the costume that have to do with practicality, and not lack of resources. Things like having more maneuverability, and that kind of thing.

So to dodge the obvious: aren't there enough white characters that you like in The Walking Dead to cosplay is (I don't know if there even is, I don't watch the show), instead I would point out that nobody, anywhere is really going to care if you don't focus on accuracy in this instance. Quite a few people, on the other hand, are going to care if you do. That fact alone should have informed the decision here. It's just common fucking sense. The costume as it is, may be quite good, but it is both insensitive, and really detracts from the overall quality of it. Instead of being able to focus on everything else, you're focused on her face. That's probably not what people are focused on when they see the character in the show or comic.

So, yeah, there's always a way to make the right choice in these situations. I don't think this girl did, though.

there's no right choice, except not doing a cosplay of another race. maybe her looking pale white would fly okay with you, but not to her, so why should she do a half-ass cosplay in her eyes?

your sister probably gave herself space on the chest to be able to breathe? or maybe she just felt like taking a fanart take on the armor. I've seen pink stormtroopers.

 

[Kurdel]

So is IASIP disregarded the same way Tropic Thunder is?

What do you mean disregarded?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

So is IASIP disregarded the same way Tropic Thunder is?

Considering it's mocking the act, yes.

 

[Courage]

I don't understand how some people feel it's okay to discount her intent and the context around the cosplay itself. Even if it is poor taste and misguided (which I think it absolutely is), are we really going to label this woman's cosplay as equally offensive as something like this:

...Which was created with the sole intent to offend and belittle?

I don't think anyone is saying it's equally as offensive to obvious blackface examples like yours. The ongoing argument is centering mostly on whether it's offensive or not, period, and that if history should matter when the intent wasn't there. Obviously there's gonna be people that get offended to anyone painting their skin black, which is why it's probably smarter to avoid something like that altogether.

 

[gutter_trash]

that's not blackface,

blackface is done using black paint or dark brown and white lips bigger or red

what this cosplayer has done is not blackface

 

[DY_nasty]

She can be perfectly knowledgable about blackface and do that without being racist. Racism != ignorance.

laughing again

IF she was perfectly knowledgeable, which she obviously wasn't, then she'd obviously know that this road isn't worth walking.

And yes, ignorance can absolutely translate to racism. Hell, its fueled by it.

 

[potam]

that's not blackface,

blackface is done using black paint or dark brown and white lips bigger or red

what this cosplayer has done is not blackface

shhhhhhhh, any attempt to look black = blackface


We really will be the generation to kill comedy

 

[SliceSabre]

I'm ok with it. It's part of being true to the character as a dedicated cosplayer. It's not a caricature of a large group of people with common racial characteristics. It's an homage to one person. Some people need to stop living in the past and check their entitlement.

"Check their entitlement"

Man I sure love being entitled to my race being belittled!

 

[JeTmAn81]

You're also ok with employees making blatantly racist comments at work so

Check what?

I never said nor believed that, so please don't thread derail.

 

[bishoptl]

People seldom look at intent today, and instead assume a one size fits all model for things that are offensive.

This looks like one of those examples.

And holy shit I didn't realize this was 21 pages.

Please - that sort of mental gymnastics is the same type of fuckery that gets us quotes like

As a cosplayer, you're not "honoring" anything, and if you want to double down on "intent" as an shield from criticism - despite being told that it is offensive - then you're an asshole.

 

[Sai-kun]

haha for fucking real. i can't believe people post here and believe this for even a minute.

you don't even have to read the newspaper or watch the news, you just fucking read all the shit that gets posted on OT and you realize that that's not true.

 

[frankie_baby]

"Check their entitlement"

Man I sure love being entitled to my race being belittled!

How exactly is she "belittling" your race ?

 

[Samara]

As a black woman, I'm not going to say this is racist or not, but I have a query for something I've never understood. When black people cosplay as non-black characters, we do so without painting our skin white or something. We revel in our blackness and put a new spin on the character. How come any time I see a white person have a black character costume, they have to go to extremes and paint themselves black?

That said, for her credit, her use of makeup is incredible and she gives a lot of respect towards the character.

Reminds me of the Zoe Saldana/Nina Simone movie, where she had to apply dark makeup. Yet, well she's still black or part black I dont know.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I never said nor believed that, so please don't thread derail.

Lol

Ok

 

[Nealand Liquor]

You don't have to be hateful to be racist.

You can just be ignorant. Honestly, that's a lot easier to deal with.

Until people start trying to defend ignorance by belittling history, telling others to get over it, or any other form of gymnastics.

But it isn't racist in this case though?

She is a fan of Michonne (sp?) and just wanted to cosplay her and be true to the characte. Her doing this is totally and completely different than someone going "blackface" for laughs/mockery and acting like a dickhead.
In my eyes her intent and sincerity makes this situation the polar opposite of what a racist "blackface" is.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

laughing again

IF she was perfectly knowledgeable, which she obviously wasn't, then she'd obviously know that this road isn't worth walking.

And yes, ignorance can absolutely translate to racism. Hell, its fueled by it.

I think what he is saying is Racism ==> Ignorance, but the converse Ignorance ==> Racism isn't, which I kinda agree on.

I don't think she's racist, it wasn't black face but it makes people think of it which makes them uncomfortable.

It goes to a dark place in history, which she shouldn't have gone too.

 

[Alucrid]

Skin colour is just cells on a the outside of a body, we are all equal so we are all free to look however we want whenever we want, yeah bad things happened in the past but the only way to consign racism to the past where it belongs is to stop making bullshit comparisons between innocent behaviour of today and the far from innocent actions of then

man, europe sounds like the promise land

 

[Mononoke]

I guess anyone that is dumb enough to do this, probably is willfully ignorant (based on what she said).

 

[Mesousa]

shhhhhhhh, any attempt to look black = blackface


We really will be the generation to kill comedy

Thing is, Blackface was never funny.

 

[Majestad]

What's the solution to this? She should have being a white Michonne?

 

[gutter_trash]

shhhhhhhh, any attempt to look black = blackface


We really will be the generation to kill comedy

no man, that is going too far calling out anyone who dresses in a costume with fandom or taste as a racist.

Dressing up a Trayvon Martin getting shot = blackface

being a fan of tv, movie or super hero character and trying to cosplay to look as much as possible as their favorite character = NO blackface. It's cosplay

People go as far as dye their hair color, make up as their favortie anime, game, movie character.

Blackface is intentionally degrading. What this woman has done is not blackface

 

[Basketball]

On the subject; Did people/anyone find this racist in Tropic Thunder? Never heard any controversy or blackface comments regarding it.

Comedy Bro and it was hilarious

same for Chappelle

for the cosplayer : I think it was in bad taste but I don't think she is racist

 

[DY_nasty]

In my opinion, intent is very important, and I'm not understanding the offense here. Dy and others getting offended over this sounds like they're really stretching things. The skin isn't even colored how people traditionally label blackface. She's not mocking black skin, and she's not belittling black people in the way black face traditionally has. Also, this thread reeks of American imperialist "our culture is dominant and in OUR culture this is how things are" crap.

I'm not even all that bothered by the woman in the OP. Like always, its the people in the threads trying to explain it away like no one should ever be offended. Hell, I'd probably feel much differently if her response wasn't "haters gonna hate".

 

[Sai-kun]

What's the solution to this? She should have being a white Michonne?

Yes? Just like all the non-white cosplayers who don't lighten their skin when cosplaying whose skin tone doesn't match theirs?

 

[Two Words]

laughing again

IF she was perfectly knowledgeable, which she obviously wasn't, then she'd obviously know that this road isn't worth walking.

And yes, ignorance can absolutely translate to racism. Hell, its fueled by it.

What's so obvious about it? Are you going to explain why or just keep laughing?

This "White people can never ever try and look like a black character by darkening their skin under any circumstance" is an absurd and limiting rule that ignores context and intent.

Instead, you should be thinking "If you want to darken your skin to look like a black character, please be careful to handle it properly and with respect. Be mindful of how it was used in a racist manner so that your intent shines".

 

[bishoptl]

Ignorance in this case would be painting yourself black with red lips and then claiming that you didn't know it was offensive, not trying to tastefully and accurately portray a character. You've lost your damn marbles.

And the nose?
Or being told that the depiction is a caricature and responding with "haters gonna hate"?
Sounds pretty ignorant to me.

Instead, you should be thinking "If you want to darken your skin to look like a black character, please be careful to handle it properly and with respect. Be mindful of how it was used in a racist manner so that your intent shines".

Shines like those bright white teeth

 

[EloquentM]

Comedy Bro and it was hilarious

same for Chappelle

for the cosplayer : I think it was in bad taste but I don't think she is racist

Thing is. In the whole movie people were explaining to him why it WASNT okay regardless of how funny it was.