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[Gordon Shumway]

What about Dos Equis's "The Most Interesting Man in the World"? That is a Jewish man playing somebody of Latin descent. Everybody seems to love that guy.

I don't, and I call it out all the time to folks who don't know it. I presume I'm not a unique snowflake, and that others do this as well. Not sure why you keep speaking in absolutes.. shit is strange.

 

[karasu]

Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. Give me an example where a white actor played someone of a different race and weren't given shit for it. And please use something a bit more modern than TGTBATU, because we've already explained why that's not a good comparison.

Scarface? Carlito's Way? The Merchant of Venice?

 

[freeofgreed]

What about Dos Equis's "The Most Interesting Man in the World"? That is a Jewish man playing somebody of Latin descent. Everybody seems to love that guy.

Huh? I've never heard of "the most interesting man in the world" being refereed to as Hispanic. Even if he is, Hispanic isn't a race, there are white Hispanics. In which case it's a white person portraying a white person.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

This is just one random girl with no large audience? I wonder how mad people got at this girl https://www.youtube.com/user/dope2111 who has over 2 million subscribers and celebrates this stuff.

 

[Two Words]

I don't, and I call it out all the time to folks who don't know it. I presume I'm not a unique snowflake, and that others do this as well. Not sure why you keep speaking in absolutes.. shit is strange.

Okay, I shouldn't have used an absolute term there , but I don't think I'm guilty of doing it much in this thread. I try to not use absolutes, actually.

But I think you can agree for the most part people don't mind that and still think he's a cool character.

 

[freeofgreed]

Scarface? Carlito's Way? The Merchant of Venice?

It's telling how the only examples you guys seem to be able to come up with is a white person portraying someone of Hispanic descent. Hispanic isn't really a race as there are plenty of Spanish people who are of Caucasian descent.

 

[Two Words]

Huh? I've never heard of "the most interesting man in the world" being refereed to as Hispanic. Even if he is, Hispanic isn't a race, there are white Hispanics. In which case it's a white person portraying a white person.

This is a lot of juggling to change the reality of what that character represents.

 

[kamorra]

Scarface? Carlito's Way? The Merchant of Venice?

The Merchant of Venice?

 

[freeofgreed]

This is a lot of juggling to change the reality of what that character represents.

Yes on you're part. Your whole argument is pretty weak tbh. I've already given you reasons as to why your examples aren't good, how about an actual retort?

 

[Courage]

This is just one random girl with no large audience? I wonder how mad people got at this girl https://www.youtube.com/user/dope2111 who has over 2 million subscribers and celebrates this stuff.

Who are "people" in this case? Everyone in this thread arguing against it? What if they've never heard of who you linked?

 

[Two Words]

Yes on you're part. Your whole argument is pretty weak tbh. I've already given you reasons as to why your examples aren't good, how about an actual retort?

You are saying two races are one in some cases, so they can be one in all cases.

 

[frankie_baby]

You don't get it because you seem to think this is all about harmless cosplay and makeup when it isn't. I've said many times in this thread that trying to represent a character by resorting to a racist depiction is not appropriate or acceptable. This is not the same as trying to be Nightcrawler or Hulk and painting your skin, but to paint your skin to portray an actual skin tone of another human being is very much like alienating them. The two aforementioned characters aren't human/normal and known for their skin being what differentiates them from others, but Michonne's race does not, her skills and mystery surrounding her is what differentiates her from others.

There's no reason to paint your skin to represent someone from another race. And you look foolish for doing so.

Trying to authentically look like someone does not make it a racist depiction, you can argue if you want about it being offensive but it isn't racist

 

[Valhelm]

This is just one random girl with no large audience? I wonder how mad people got at this girl https://www.youtube.com/user/dope2111 who has over 2 million subscribers and celebrates this stuff.

The blackface is fucked up. Nobody who isn't Black should wear makeup to look Black, except for incredibly specific and critical circumstances, like in Mad Men or Tropic Thunder.

 

[karasu]

It's telling how the only examples you guys seem to be able to come up with is a white person portraying someone of Hispanic descent. Hispanic isn't really a race as there are plenty of Spanish people who are of Caucasian descent.

You think that's what Puerto Rican actors thought when the only meaty Puerto Rican role at the time went to Al Pacino?

 

[Exr]

First, I have seen very few examples of "blackface" or similar that looks convincing. When people such as the cosplayer in the OP, attempt to change their race they just end up looking like a person with paint smeared on their face. It either looks weird at best or offensive at worst.

Second, even today "whiteness" is still held as the standard of beauty and non-white characters are still grossly underrepresented in media. So until those issues are corrected, a white person darkening their skin in an attempt to portray a black character will tend to bring up ugly reminders of how black people and others have been and continue to be marginalized.

I guess race is inconsequential for these characters, rather it's the characters personality itself that is the alluring draw towards cosplaying them. I don't have to paint my skin white to dress up as Ken from Street Fighter, rather the costume itself is iconic enough without having to address race...I get what you're saying now, thanks.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I think context needs to be brought into this. The way I grew up for example, being a coon is a desirable thing, blackface is a celebration of being free of slavery (appropriated from Americans). In the same way I feel that this chick in the OP wasnt even trying to be a racist ahole, if she was walking around looking like Mr. Popo though, we'd all know whats going on. Growing up like I did, blackface isnt offensive off the bat until context makes it obvious it's done in a way to belittle people of colour.

Yes mate, the world is a big place.

There are no raccoons native to Africa. So where did the term come from?

Appropriated from 'muricah

You use coon to describe black people, throw your nose in the air at the idea of it being a racist term with a typical "it's not an issue where I'm from, not everywhere is america" then literally agree that it was a racist term co-opted from America.

You're blowing my mind.

 

[freeofgreed]

You are saying two races are one in some cases, so they can be one in all cases.

No I am saying hispanic isn't really a race as there can be white hispanics and black hispanics. Also you don't find it weird that the only examples you can think of are white => hispanic? It's because it's a completely different situation entirely then if a white person played a black or asian person.

 

[anarckitty]

You don't get it because you seem to think this is all about harmless cosplay and makeup when it isn't. I've said many times in this thread that trying to represent a character by resorting to a racist depiction is not appropriate or acceptable. This is not the same as trying to be Nightcrawler or Hulk and painting your skin, but to paint your skin to portray an actual skin tone of another human being is very much like alienating them. The two aforementioned characters aren't human/normal and known for their skin being what differentiates them from others, but Michonne's race does not, her skills and mystery surrounding her is what differentiates her from others.

There's no reason to paint your skin to represent someone from another race. And you look foolish for doing so.

And you don't get it, because to a lot of people it is about cosplay and makeup. And yes, Michonne's skills and mystery surrounding her is what differentiates her from others, but she's also black.

With that being said though, as I've previously stated....I do understand how it could emotionally affect someone. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling the way that you do about it or that you shouldn't feel that way to begin with, but you should also try to understand how others feel about it as well.

 

[freeofgreed]

You think that's what Puerto Rican actors thought when the only meaty Puerto Rican role at the time went to Al Pacino?

What are you even arguing? You're stating completely agrees with my viewpoint.

 

[tfur]

It's telling how the only examples you guys seem to be able to come up with is a white person portraying someone of Hispanic descent. Hispanic isn't really a race as there are plenty of Spanish people who are of Caucasian descent.

Umm.
So, where do we put Barack Obama with this sort of definition?

 

[mentallyinept]

You don't get it because you seem to think this is all about harmless cosplay and makeup when it isn't. I've said many times in this thread that trying to represent a character by resorting to a racist depiction is not appropriate or acceptable. This is not the same as trying to be Nightcrawler or Hulk and painting your skin, but to paint your skin to portray an actual skin tone of another human being is very much like alienating them. The two aforementioned characters aren't human/normal and known for their skin being what differentiates them from others, but Michonne's race does not, her skills and mystery surrounding her is what differentiates her from others.

There's no reason to paint your skin to represent someone from another race. And you look foolish for doing so.

My contention is that using makeup on yourself to match a characters race is not inherently racist and I gave an example of when the line is crossed. However, given the statement that I bolded from your post, we fundamentally disagree on this point, so I'm not sure how much value continuing this conversation has.

 

[Alucrid]

Umm.
So, where do we put Barack Obama with this sort of definition?

I would put it out of left field

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Huh? I've never heard of "the most interesting man in the world" being refereed to as Hispanic. Even if he is, Hispanic isn't a race, there are white Hispanics. In which case it's a white person portraying a white person.

Nah. Jewish dude. Either way, its like he's on some "Let's put it in a saucer and see if the cat licks it up" shit. Why are we bringing up Tuco? Why not Charles Bronson and The Duke? Mickey Rooney was brought up, and for good reason..

There are TONS of examples of wrong doing from Hollywood in relation to race. What majority is he conjuring up saying that those were OK? Who in here said anything of the sort? Why was Heath Ledger brought up? Bizarre stuff..

 

[ishibear]

Trying to authentically look like someone does not make it a racist depiction, you can argue if you want about it being offensive but it isn't racist

So, you're somehow more qualified than I am to say when something is racist and when it isn't?

Wrong. The act is racist. It's a racist thing to do. Does this mean the cosplayer is racist? No, unless they prove otherwise.

A racist act =/= being a racist.

 

[Valhelm]

Scarface? Carlito's Way? The Merchant of Venice?

Everyone of those characters was an "ethnic white person". It's a completely different dynamic from Blackface.

Tony Montana is a white Cuban, Carlito Brigante is a Puerto Rican of Corsican descent, and Shylock is an Italian Jew. Al Pacino, an Italian American of Sicilian descent, is appearance-wise not too different from those people. It's not comparable to an Anglo-American girl wearing blackface.

 

[Two Words]

No I am saying hispanic isn't really a race as there can be white hispanics and black hispanics. Also you don't find it weird that the only examples you can think of are white => hispanic? It's because it's a completely different situation entirely then if a white person played a black or asian person.

I see, so those people that were denied jobs and stereotyped to a lesser degree was fine because they're not "really a race"? I feel like you are brushing them away as a non-existent group. We all understand the difference meant here.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. Give me an example where a white actor played someone of a different race and weren't given shit for it. And please use something a bit more modern than TGTBATU, because we've already explained why that's not a good comparison.

Some actors for the tv show Tyrant (including the main character) were white even though they're supposed to be playing arab characters.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

That's some damn good blackface. I would've swore she was actually black.

 

[frankie_baby]

So, you're somehow more qualified than I am to say when something is racist and when it isn't?

Wrong. The act is racist. It's a racist thing to do. Does this mean the cosplayer is racist? No, unless they prove otherwise.

A racist act =/= being a racist.

An act is not racist without intention

 

[ishibear]

And you don't get it, because to a lot of people it is about cosplay and makeup. And yes, Michonne's skills and mystery surrounding her is what differentiates her from others, but she's also black.

With that being said though, as I've previously stated....I do understand how it could emotionally affect someone. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling the way that you do about it or that you shouldn't feel that way to begin with, but you should also try to understand how others feel about it as well.

We're putting the love for makeup and cosplay above blackface being offensive? I don't believe this shit.

My contention is that using makeup on yourself to match a characters race is not inherently racist and I gave an example of when the line is crossed. However, given the statement that I bolded from your post, we fundamentally disagree on this point, so I'm not sure how much value continuing this conversation has.

Sounds like my initial assumption was correct.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

An act is not racist without intention

Not true at all.

 

[RustyNails]

Wow@ 30 page discussion.

Anyway this is ridiculously stupid, and ignorant racism at its finest. She did not need to have blackface on. Anyone can cosplay anyone without having to conform to racial features or identities. Millions of people who are not asian cosplay asian characters without trying to look ethnically Chinese or Japanese.

This girl is just a dumbass.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

not racist to me but creepy as fuck because she looks weird, Michonne is damn fine specially in S4

Spoiler

when she was as casual civilian

though i could see why it would offend people.

 

[Two Words]

So, you're somehow more qualified than I am to say when something is racist and when it isn't?

Wrong. The act is racist. It's a racist thing to do. Does this mean the cosplayer is racist? No, unless they prove otherwise.

A racist act =/= being a racist.

You're not following the definition of "racist".

 

[pants]

You use coon to describe black people, throw your nose in the air at the idea of it being a racist term with a typical "it's not an issue where I'm from, not everywhere is america" then literally agree that it was a racist term co-opted from America.

You're blowing my mind.

Coon is racist where you're from and it's a term we appropriated from you, yet we dont use it in a racist manner. I dont even know why I bother talking about my experiences if you guys are intent on disregarding it and inserting your own agendas.

Good luck out there in the world, trying to understand other people though.

 

[anarckitty]

We're putting the love for makeup and cosplay above blackface being offensive? I don't believe this shit.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't view this as blackface. You do. There's nothing more for us to discuss.

 

[Mumei]

An act is not racist without intention

Not true. An act is racist independent of the intentions of the person who performed it. The only thing intent modulates is whether you were an asshole, or just clueless.

 

[ishibear]

An act is not racist without intention

You can be unintentionally racist. Seriously what the hell? Have you lived in a bubble all your life?

Imitating an Asian accent (say, Chinese) to be funny is very ignorant and racist. But if you're told so and make sure to never do it again, you're good. Ignorance is usually the reason behind unintended racism. That doesn't make you a bad person, but it does if you think you're somehow above everyone else telling you to stop.

 

[Valhelm]

Some actors for the tv show Tyrant (including the main character) were white even though they're supposed to be playing arab characters.

This is different from blackface, though. You could argue that casting an English actor to play a Syrian-ish character is offensive, but very many Middle Eastern people look like very many Europeans. My grandmother is ethnically Arab, but lighter skinned than many Italian Americans.

Did any other European actors play Arab characters?

 

[frankie_baby]

Not true at all.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism

 

[ishibear]

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't view this as blackface. You do. There's nothing more for us to discuss.

Clearly it's because you're ignorant regarding this matter. But fine, maybe someone else will be willing to learn.

 

[Two Words]

Clearly it's because you're ignorant regarding this matter. But fine, maybe someone else will be willing to learn.

This attitude is pretty frustrating. Not sharing a more militant attitude about this isn't wrong.

 

[anarckitty]

Clearly it's because you're ignorant regarding this matter. But fine, maybe someone else will be willing to learn.

Yes. I'm obviously ignorant because I'm looking at something from a different side than you.

 

[frankie_baby]

You can be unintentionally racist. Seriously what the hell? Have you lived in a bubble all your life?

Imitating an Asian accent (say, Chinese) to be funny is very ignorant and racist. But if you're told so and make sure to never do it again, you're good. Ignorance is usually the reason behind unintended racism. That doesn't make you a bad person, but it does if you think you're somehow above everyone else telling you to stop.

So people are only allowed to do accents of people from the same ethnicity as themselves now?

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism

If you're going by dictionary definition you already lost. Look up 'Fag' in the oxford dictionary to get my point.


You can perpetuate a belief without holding it yourself or being conscious of it. Even that definition says nothing of purposeful intent.

 

[ishibear]

This attitude is pretty frustrating. Not sharing a more militant attitude about this isn't wrong.

Yes. I'm obviously ignorant because I'm looking at something from a different side than you.

I don't think you two understand what blackface is. That is why I call it ignorance. Jesus, I didn't call you dumb or stupid, just unaware. I was in that place before too.

I haven't even said if I deemed this racist or not. You're so ready to go to war and I'm just passing on some knowledge. Chill out.

 

[kamorra]

Clearly it's because you're ignorant regarding this matter. But fine, maybe someone else will be willing to learn.

I honestly don't see that happen that often with this kind of attitude.

 

[Kite]

Even if she didn't paint her face black she'd still get shit for being a white girl with dreads: cultural appropriation and whatnot. It isn't fair, ideally you should be able to cosplay whoever you want, but it makes life simpler if you just stay within your own race when you dress up. I don't have the time or energy to deal with people's hurt feelings so its easier to just avoid the whole issue together.. it's simply the world we live in now.

 

[Two Words]

I don't think you two understand what blackface is. That is why I call it ignorance. Jesus, I didn't call you dumb or stupid, just unaware. I was in that place before too.

I haven't even said if I deemed this racist or not. You're so ready to go to war and I'm just passing on some knowledge. Chill out.

Blackface is not a hard concept to understand and I understand the history of it well enough. Please stop acting as if we've just failed to look at it enough when you have no way of knowing what we know.

 

[EloquentM]

Yes. I'm obviously ignorant because I'm looking at something from a different side than you.

No you're ignorant because of your intolerance.