Cosplayer being labeled ‘Racist’ for her blackface Michonne From ‘The Walking Dead'

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She didnt have to do the makeup i guess. People still respect you even if you arent full 100% looking like the fictional character. Just look at all the fat lara crofts out there, or all the men dressing up as harley quinn and some shit.
 
Kite said:
Even if she didn't paint her face black she'd still get shit for being a white girl with dreads: cultural appropriation and whatnot. It isn't fair, ideally you should be able to cosplay whoever you want, but it makes life simpler if you just stay within your own race when you dress up. I don't have the time or energy to deal with people's hurt feelings so its easier to just avoid the whole issue together.. it's simply the world we live in now.
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Why does this keep getting brought up? Dread locks isn't exclusive to black people.
 
frankie_baby said:
So people are only allowed to do accents of people from the same ethnicity as themselves now?
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... Read what she wrote.

She said to be funny. If you're doing a Chinese accent into order to mock Chinese people, no, you shouldn't do that. If you're doing a Chinese accent because you're trying to speak Chinese and sound more accurate in doing it, sure, go for it.
 
kamorra said:
I honestly don't see that happen that often with this kind of attitude.
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Oh great, tone police have arrived.

Look hon, either talk to me about something or move on. Don't derail and make this about my non existent attitude.

Two Words said:
Blackface is not a hard concept to understand and I understand the history of it well enough. Please stop acting as if we've just failed to look at it enough when you have no way of knowing what we know.
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If you understand it, prove it.
 
Not racist.

Black face was done as a caricature to demean blacks, this was done because someone really likes a character who happens to be black.

If people can't see the difference between what you would see at a minstrel show as opposed to someone going overboard for cosplaying, that is on you, not the young lady in question.
 
Yeah... yeah that is pretty racist. I mean if she had cosplayed with just the outfit and hairstyle whatever but why go ahead with the blackface too?
 
I have no freaking Idea, but she did know it will offend people and still did it.

but should they or should she care that they are offended, I really don't know.
 
ishibear said:
I don't think you two understand what blackface is. That is why I call it ignorance. Jesus, I didn't call you dumb or stupid, just unaware. I was in that place before too.

I haven't even said if I deemed this racist or not. You're so ready to go to war and I'm just passing on some knowledge. Chill out.
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I'm pretty sure you don't understand what Black Face is.
 
ishibear said:
I don't think you two understand what blackface is. That is why I call it ignorance. Jesus, I didn't call you dumb or stupid, just unaware. I was in that place before too.

I haven't even said if I deemed this racist or not. You're so ready to go to war and I'm just passing on some knowledge. Chill out.
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I'm not ready to go to war over this. You and I disagree with what we consider blackface.
 
I thought the whole problem with blackface was that on top of changing your skin color, you're also making a mockery of black people through exaggerated stereotypes. From that picture comparison its clear that she's just dressing as the character and isn't trying to make any derogatory performance or statement about black people.
 
Valhelm said:
This is different from blackface, though. You could argue that casting an English actor to play a Syrian-ish character is offensive, but very many Middle Eastern people look like very many Europeans. My grandmother is ethnically Arab, but lighter skinned than many Italian Americans.

Did any other European actors play Arab characters?
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I know it's very different from blackface, but the question of the posters I responded to was about actors playing characters outside their race.
But yeah, some arabs have pretty light skin and European features (especially if they're from Syria/Lebanon/Israel).

Overall the show did a pretty good job of casting a lot of actors with middle eastern origins, but including the main character 3 were of European descent.
 
Two Words said:
I see, so those people that were denied jobs and stereotyped to a lesser degree was fine because they're not "really a race"? I feel like you are brushing them away as a non-existent group. We all understand the difference meant here.
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And were did I say Hispanics never faced discrimination? I simply said in the strictest sense they aren't categorized as a race, it's just that in case like this there some more grey ares due to the unique way we classify hispanic people.

NEO0MJ said:
Some actors for the tv show Tyrant (including the main character) were white even though they're supposed to be playing arab characters.
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Ok this is a good example. I think the lack of backlash however is probably due to it being a relatively unknown show (at least I've never heard of it before you mentioned it). Also as I've said multiple times before in this situation I feel like it's up to the offended party to decide if they consider something offensive.
 
ishibear said:
Oh great, tone police have arrived.

Look hon, either talk to me about something or move on. Don't derail and make this about my non existent attitude.



If you understand it, prove it.
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During early cinema, black actors were rarely ever on film. At best, they played butlers or other roles of servitude. White actors often played black characters wearing blackface make up. This was often accompanied with extremely offensive stereotypes of black people. It also kept black actors out of Hollywood. It's pretty damning how The Production Code managed to keep so much offensive material out of film, but never touched on racial stereotypes. Actually, the production Code prevented stereotyping white people, if I recall correctly, as well as any mixed race romance. This also affected other races to a lesser degree. Many minorities had their jobs done by white people playing them. A big reason why they were not stereotyped as much is because these films were often sold to theaters in European countries. Blackface was really fucked up. It's unfair to put all of this on this girl in the OP who was simply trying to look like specific portrayal of a character.
 
I'm having trouble seeing how anyone could say this is racist
She's a cosplayer. The whole point is to make yourself look like the character.

To all the people complaining about the black makeup, would you also have a problem with a white person wearing a costume on Halloween of a fictional black character with a mask of the characters face?
 
Ishibear, do you even have a point? Or is it only to aggressively call people like you're sitting on top of some mountain of enlightenment regarding blackface? We know what blackface is, not everyone will agree what she did was racist, as intent is important when looking at these issues.
 
KefkaPalazzo said:
Not racist.

Black face was done as a caricature to demean blacks, this was done because someone really likes a character who happens to be black.

If people can't see the difference between what you would see at a minstrel show as opposed to someone going overboard for cosplaying, that is on you, not the young lady in question.
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Pretty much my stance as well. Nobody thinks exactly the same and has the same exact outlook and values. For me, intent has a lot to do with racism, and yes I've been subjected to racism before, and I just don't see any bad intentions on the cosplayer's part.
 
Mumei said:
... Read what she wrote.

She said to be funny. If you're doing a Chinese accent into order to mock Chinese people, no, you shouldn't do that. If you're doing a Chinese accent because you're trying to speak Chinese and sound more accurate in doing it, sure, go for it.
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Yeah I got the "to be funny" bit, I was thinking of people doing funny accents, not to offened but to entertain, how is doing a Chinese accent any different from doing a French accent, a Scottish accent, a scouse accent, a Jamaican accent or whatever, it's not the accent itself that's offensive it's when and how it's used and what is said
 
Two Words said:
During early cinema, black actors were rarely ever on film. At best, they played butlers or other roles of servitude. White actors often played black characters wearing blackface make up. This was often accompanied with extremely offensive stereotypes of black people. It also kept black actors out of Hollywood. It's pretty damning how The Production Code managed to keep so much offensive material out of film, but never touched on racial stereotypes. Actually, the production Code prevented stereotyping white people, if I recall correctly, as well as any mixed race romance. This also affected other races to a lesser degree. Many minorities had their jobs done by white people playing them. A big reason why they were not stereotyped as much is because these films were often sold to theaters in European countries. Blackface was really fucked up. It's unfair to put all of this on this girl in the OP who was simply trying to look like specific portrayal of a character.
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Thank you.

Goes in with what I've been saying from the jump. She did a racist depiction, but that doesn't mean she's racist.

FunkyMunkey said:
Ishibear, do you even have a point? Or is it only to aggressively call people like you're sitting on top of some mountain of enlightenment regarding blackface? We know what blackface is, not everyone will agree what she did was racist, as intent is important when looking at these issues. But keep moving those goalposts and sliding around making no sense at all, talking down to people as if you even have the right to (you dont).
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Uhh, wanna talk about this because I'm so lost. What's your problem? I'm not doing anything...
 
FunkyMunkey said:
Ishibear, do you even have a point? Or is it only to aggressively call people like you're sitting on top of some mountain of enlightenment regarding blackface? We know what blackface is, not everyone will agree what she did was racist, as intent is important when looking at these issues.
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Exactly. However the fact that some people do find it racist means that it's better to go the route of not offending anyone, the to go the route of offending some people. Seriously why are so many people defending this "pseudo" blackface? Would your lives really be any just because this woman can't paint her skin black?
 
Kite said:
Even if she didn't paint her face black she'd still get shit for being a white girl with dreads: cultural appropriation and whatnot. It isn't fair, ideally you should be able to cosplay whoever you want, but it makes life simpler if you just stay within your own race when you dress up. I don't have the time or energy to deal with people's hurt feelings zzz.. it's simply the world we live in now.
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WTF are you talking about?....

anyways, my 1st thoughts

1- no racist intent, but not really the point

2- Its fine cosplaying a character thats not the same skin tone or ethnicity. I see it ALL THE TIME.

3- "Black Face" has a disgusting and offensive history, "White Face" does NOT, thats just a fact of life in America(and the west to a point). Historical context matters, millions of people who went through this era of dehumanization are still alive..its not that long ago. Yes the swastika has more meaning then what the Nazis made it to be, but that doesn't mean you can use the symbol just for the fuck of it without expect people to at the least stroke their chin.
 
ishibear said:
Thank you.

Goes in with what I've been saying from the jump. She did a racist depiction, but that doesn't mean she's racist.



Uhh, wanna talk about this because I'm so lost. What's your problem? I'm not doing anything...
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"Racist depiction" doesn't sound right to me. That sounds like it's saying she made a racist caricature of Michonne, which she didn't. I'm curious how far you feel about this view. How would you feel if she was really trying to nail the AMC Michonne look and got it right to impressive detail. Would you still feel it is racist? Is there no point where you can accept that she shouldn't be looked down for trying to nail a look that simply requires her to darken her skin?
 
ronco2000 said:
What's the point of cosplay if you're just half-assing it?!!
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I know, right?

lbfOntf.png
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Kite said:
]Even if she didn't paint her face black she'd still get shit for being a white girl with dreads: cultural appropriation and whatnot.[/B] It isn't fair, ideally you should be able to cosplay whoever you want, but it makes life simpler if you just stay within your own race when you dress up. I don't have the time or energy to deal with people's hurt feelings so its easier to just avoid the whole issue together.. it's simply the world we live in now.
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Nobody is saying that in this thread. Get that strawman outta here.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
She actually kind of nailed the look. Well done. Things like this and the little kid who dressed like MLK Jr for his class presentation don't bother me. Things like American college students putting on black makeup to portray 'thugs' and having chicken & watermelon parties is modern day blackface.

Got to choose your battles, I'm not getting worked up over this.
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Mirrors my thoughts as well.
 
Kite said:
Even if she didn't paint her face black she'd still get shit for being a white girl with dreads: cultural appropriation and whatnot. It isn't fair, ideally you should be able to cosplay whoever you want, but it makes life simpler if you just stay within your own race when you dress up. I don't have the time or energy to deal with people's hurt feelings so its easier to just avoid the whole issue together.. it's simply the world we live in now.
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you should really think about what you're saying in this post.
 
ishibear said:
Uhh, wanna talk about this because I'm so lost. What's your problem? I'm not doing anything...
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I'm just mystified that you're calling people ignorant on this issue when most understand and know what blackface is. Just because people disagree doesn't mean we're all uneducated. In my opinion, what she did was stupid, but calling her a racist is a stretch, especially when her intents are clear. This is a completely different case than the people dressing up as T. martin for Halloween, for instance, but I'd assume you categorize it as being just as terrible? I'm just saying there's a huge grey area on the "terrible" scale, and although she fucked up, some people can't really understand getting as up in arms over this as other cases of evil, blatant, blackface.

Now if anyone is arguing that blackface doesn't have racist beginnings and connections or is completely OK to do, ever, then they are absolutely ignorant. If that's the case, I apologize.

Alucrid said:
I don't know who you think is calling her a racist. Ishibear even says she isn't below.

That said, her response to the criticisms certainly make her an asshole.
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You're right, sorry ishibear. I misread and thought you had, these threads move so quickly!
 
Valhelm said:
The blackface is fucked up. Nobody who isn't Black should wear makeup to look Black, except for incredibly specific and critical circumstances, like in Mad Men or Tropic Thunder.
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This is where the argument falls on it's face for me. I really don't get how it can be totally offensive and reprehensible on one hand yet have 'specific and critical circumstances' when it can be used.
 
FunkyMunkey said:
I'm just mystified that you're calling people ignorant on this issue when most understand and know what blackface is. Just because people disagree doesn't mean we're all uneducated. In my opinion, what she did was stupid, but calling her a racist is a stretch, especially when her intents are clear. This is a completely different case than the people dressing up as T. martin for Halloween, for instance, but I'd assume you categorize it as being just as terrible? I'm just saying there's a huge grey area on the "terrible" scale, and although she fucked up, some people can't really understand getting as up in arms over this as other cases of evil, blatant, blackface.

Now if anyone is arguing that blackface doesn't have racist beginnings and connections or is completely OK to do, ever, then they are absolutely ignorant. If that's the case, I apologize.
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I don't know who you think is calling her a racist. Ishibear even says she isn't below.

ishibear said:
Thank you.

Goes in with what I've been saying from the jump. She did a racist depiction, but that doesn't mean she's racist.



Uhh, wanna talk about this because I'm so lost. What's your problem? I'm not doing anything...
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That said, her response to the criticisms certainly make her an asshole.
 
As a German myself I can only guess that she didn't know what a "blackface" is or how offensive this can be. I asked a couple of my friends today and almost no one could really define the term. We do obviouly learn most of the time in history class about the II. WW and also a lot about things before this time in Europe. But often not that much about American history in this very detail. If you're not from America and you're not too much into history you probably just don't get the whole scope of a blackface I guess.
 
flkraven said:
This is where the argument falls on it's face for me. I really don't get how it can be totally offensive and reprehensible on one hand yet have 'specific and critical circumstances' when it can be used.
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Because it's mocking those characters, and mocking the idea of blackface!

When Roger Sterling paints his face brown and sings 1930s showtunes, it's meant to so how horribly out-of-touch he is, in this quickly-changing society.
 
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