-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Court says Walmart does have the right to fire employee over gay comments
- Thread starter Gaborn
- Start date
- Status
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Sklorenz said:
"I had a great day at Temple this weekend. It's Channukah. Have you ever celebrated Channukah with any of your Jewish friends?"
"Death to your slimy rat race!!"
I kinda refuse to believe that the third sentence materially changes the culpability of the first party's innocent conversation. Whether the invitation to respond was explicit interrogation, a manifest but innocent question, or a latent hook for further conversation, I really don't think there's any scenario whereby it's appropriate to be openly hateful to others.
I do everything wholeheartedly.levious said:
I can't believe there is an issue about it, but I kind of see why there is. For example:
...has nothing to do with what I said and is more in line with why Walmart had a right to fire the lady.Stumpokapow said:
If someone comes up to me and asked: "So JGS, what's you religion's view on homosexuality"
My answer will be what my religion's view of homosexuality is.
You haven't answered why telling the truth would be stupid.Devolution said:
Admittedly, it was a harsh statement, but fortunately I'm not Apostolic so I don't care what their beliefs are. I'm assuming the lady saw her smooching her girlfriend or talking about her or whatever and condemned her for it which is what should have happened.
However if the conversation was:
Lesbian: How does your religion view homosexuality?
Apostolic: You are mentally ill and going to burn forever!!!!
The other person just got an answer to what they asked.
That's much better than:
Apostolic: Uhhh, nothing. You'll be in heaven too. [whistles and slowly walks away]
Unfortunately, I suppose the correct answer would be
Apostolic: Uhh, idk? pleasedontfirememightywalmart
Devolution
Member
JGS said:
So you're admitting you're a bigot?
Would you agree or disagree that this makes for a hostile working environment for others?
Its just questionable to me someone losing their means of survival by engaging with coworkers on a conversation, and expressing thier opinion. If the situation was reveresed and a gay worker was fired for expressing thier opinion that homosexuality was normal, it would be still be just as wrong.
The article doesn't describe alot of what took place, just seems that she was yelling and harassing. I get someone being fired for harassing a coworker or being overly aggressive. But if she just expressed her opinion, and they BOTH started to fight about it, and she the only one fired, that would be fucked up to me. I get people should be adults and be respectful, but anyone who was worked around coworkers you know conversations sometimes come up, and I don't think anyone should be fired for expressing how they feel on a topic.
AGAIN, I get that's not why she was fired, she was fired for harassment, which is totally justifiable if that is indeed the case.
The article doesn't describe alot of what took place, just seems that she was yelling and harassing. I get someone being fired for harassing a coworker or being overly aggressive. But if she just expressed her opinion, and they BOTH started to fight about it, and she the only one fired, that would be fucked up to me. I get people should be adults and be respectful, but anyone who was worked around coworkers you know conversations sometimes come up, and I don't think anyone should be fired for expressing how they feel on a topic.
AGAIN, I get that's not why she was fired, she was fired for harassment, which is totally justifiable if that is indeed the case.
Count Dookkake
Member
Apostolic Christian?
More like Apoplectic Christian.
More like Apoplectic Christian.
bengraven
Member
Wait, I can sue my former employer?
My heavily conservative Baptist co-workers were always riding me about being an agnostic and saying I'm going in a "bad direction" for having gay friends.
My boss told my wife one time that all our problems would be solved (my son's heart condition, my wife's cysts, my financial woes) if I would "become a Godly man".
My heavily conservative Baptist co-workers were always riding me about being an agnostic and saying I'm going in a "bad direction" for having gay friends.
My boss told my wife one time that all our problems would be solved (my son's heart condition, my wife's cysts, my financial woes) if I would "become a Godly man".
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
She sucks as a catholic, that's for sure.
The only thing that will get you to hell is if you die in mortal sin.
The only way to committ a mortal sin is to fullingly knowing what you are doing at the moment of you doing it. I think the large missinformation campaign about the homosexual thing makes a lot of people uninformed.
The act of sodomy is a mortal sin (but you have to know it is when committing it), being homosexual is not a mortal sin.
Even if you are homosexual, committ sodomy knowing what you are doing, you still can confess and repent and not go to hell.
See, Oscar Wilde is probably a fine example of an homosexual that is with the highest probability, not in hell (turned catholic just before dying, repented and had the extreme unction; so he is probably in heaven by now).
EDIT: Apostolic christian, wtf is that shit? (I read roman apostolic catholic, for some reason) ignore me.
The only thing that will get you to hell is if you die in mortal sin.
The only way to committ a mortal sin is to fullingly knowing what you are doing at the moment of you doing it. I think the large missinformation campaign about the homosexual thing makes a lot of people uninformed.
The act of sodomy is a mortal sin (but you have to know it is when committing it), being homosexual is not a mortal sin.
Even if you are homosexual, committ sodomy knowing what you are doing, you still can confess and repent and not go to hell.
See, Oscar Wilde is probably a fine example of an homosexual that is with the highest probability, not in hell (turned catholic just before dying, repented and had the extreme unction; so he is probably in heaven by now).
EDIT: Apostolic christian, wtf is that shit? (I read roman apostolic catholic, for some reason) ignore me.
Nope, you're admitting to prejudice though.Devolution said:
EDIT: Your first question was so stupid & insulting I forgot to look at your second one.
The hostile work environment is caused when personal matters are brought up period. Like it or not, a person's religious beliefs are as valid an employee issue as orientation. If there is going to be conflict, then it kind of makes sense to avoid discussing the subject in great detail and when it's brought up, to quickly change the subject.
Devolution
Member
JGS said:
I assumed since you're so quick to defend the woman telling others they're going to hell and mentally damaged.
JGS said:
You're missing the point. Your religion doesn't compel you to answer the question in an offensive way, and if it DID, your CHOICE of religion would be entirely to blame for you losing your job, because it is incompatible with society and the workplace.
This still means WalMart is in the right, since it would apply the same standard to all employees, religious or otherwise.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Sorry, i got the wrong religion.AiTM said:
Also, I don't see why I should be hammered for what you bolded.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
I'm sorry but that's not what I said. I said he repented of committing sodomy acts; it's quite different.AiTM said:
Devolution
Member
JGS said:
Like it or not your beliefs don't allow you to marginalize employees in your workplace. Hence the point of the decision.
JGS said:
Keep your mouth shut if you don't want to lie. It's not my problem if someone wants to hold bigoted views and thinks they can just demoralize and demonize others and keep their job.
StickSoldier
Member
Stupid ass bitch deserves to be fired. Shes one of the idiot over zealous religious people who don't know shit. She's the kind of person that makes christians look bad, with her stupid comments and all.
Edit: Oh cool, I'm not a junior anymore.
Edit 2:
Yeah, but to act like a maniac over it in a work place for cryin out loud, is a different story. People get trained over shit like this before you actually start to work, especially at Walmart. Glad they won.
Edit: Oh cool, I'm not a junior anymore.
Edit 2:
JGS said:
Yeah, but to act like a maniac over it in a work place for cryin out loud, is a different story. People get trained over shit like this before you actually start to work, especially at Walmart. Glad they won.
JGS said:
I guess I'm not fully following you, you do realize this was more than just a single conversation and built into harassment over days? It was not simply stating what her religious doctrine stated.
If your religious beliefs include bigoted ideas, then it's probably best to keep them to yourself anyway.
And pointing out bigotry in a religious belief does not make one prejudiced.
Count Dookkake
Member
AiTM said:
"We don't have a problem with squares, just right angles."
Sho_Nuff82
Member
If I ask a coworker, "How was your day?" and they go on a screaming diatribe - about how they were jewed out of a parking space, had to walk in a puddle to avoid a passing group of nigger muslims, they were late because some dirty spic goofed their order at Dunk N Donuts, and by the way, fuck your ugly oxygen-thieving fat ass for asking - they would probably get fired, even if the events were factually true.
It's a place of business, not your dinner table, employers have a right to ensure that other employees and customers aren't put off by your potty mouth, no matter what your first amendment rights are.
It's a place of business, not your dinner table, employers have a right to ensure that other employees and customers aren't put off by your potty mouth, no matter what your first amendment rights are.
Count Dookkake
Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Such an awful day already and then you get fired.
JGS said:
No they aren't. Courts in US and UK have both ruled so when it came to "my religion tells me to be a bigot". What about the religious beliefs of the Westboro Baptist Church? You going to claim they are equally valid to someone's right to be gay without being harrassed at work for it? Scum.
Copernicus said:
hmm?
Wow. Yeah, it was the victim who was being spiteful. Would you claim someone was being spiteful if a black person engaged someone in a conversation about race and got called a nigger and reported them for it? HateGAF out in full force today.
Oppo
Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Bingo.
You can express your beliefs in a way that is respectful, in any situation.
Being an asshole is incompatible with civilization and most workplaces.
Woman got fired for being an asshole. Subject matter is almost irrelevant.
Having said that - were I in a situation where I knew I was working with an insufferable religious bigot, I'd absolutely trap them into flipping out in front of several people to get them fired. I'm not particularly proud of that, but I know that I would do it.
What's the problem here? Why is there any debate?
Even if the fired/Christian lady was part of the discussion, she was still out of line for screaming over her co-worker and insulting/belittling her. That is no way to behave at work. Any real Christian should be able to get their point/belief across without resorting to harrassment like that. Sadly, there are too many "Christians" in America who are more concerned with fighting the Culture Wars, than behaving like Christ. This is why, as a Christian myself, I like Christ, just not a lot of Christians.
And yes, the lesbian co-worker should've been fired if she acted the same way. Companies should never tolerate harrassment. Doesn't appear to be the case, however.
Even if the fired/Christian lady was part of the discussion, she was still out of line for screaming over her co-worker and insulting/belittling her. That is no way to behave at work. Any real Christian should be able to get their point/belief across without resorting to harrassment like that. Sadly, there are too many "Christians" in America who are more concerned with fighting the Culture Wars, than behaving like Christ. This is why, as a Christian myself, I like Christ, just not a lot of Christians.
And yes, the lesbian co-worker should've been fired if she acted the same way. Companies should never tolerate harrassment. Doesn't appear to be the case, however.
Joel Was Right
Member
Stumpokapow said:
Out of curiousity: If a Christian/Muslim/Jew GAF member were having a conversation with a gay GAF member about religion in general, to which the conversation then reached the topic of homosexuality and the former reiterated their prescribed stance on the subject - effectively telling the gay member she/he is sinning - , or that gay relations are condemned, is that a scenario where a Mod takes action?
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
It's not what i said. You just don't understand what sodomy is.Count Dookkake said:
An heterosexual couple can committ sodomy (which is not sex, even if you try to say it is because you are changing the very definition of the word). You can have anal/oral "sex", chinese dragon (don't ask, probably not known in other countries (most disgusting thing ever)), or other types of mutual masturbation and satisfaction through inflicting (or receiving) pain.
Count Dookkake
Member
manueldelalas said:
Oh, believe me, I do.
It's awesome.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Bravo.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Meus Renaissance said:
I don't want to give a general answer, but...
- We don't tolerate homophobia as per TOS.
- Generally the people punished for homophobia are more actively hateful than latently homophobic so it's possible that if someone expressed a certain stance in a relatively benign way they might not hypothetically be whacked. I don't want to split hairs, but if someone said "My church views gay people as sinners" that might be considered different than if they more actively asserted it themselves. This is not an endorsement of bigotry.
- I can think of a few occasions where benign people were banned for, for example, holocaust denial. I can think of one example where a prominent poster who had culturally informed negative views of women was banned after expressing them (admittedly in a benign and not aggressive way) a few times. So some viewpoints are viewed as just sort of basically incompatible with continuing in the community.
If there's any followup about this or any other moderation issues please PM me or another mod rather than continuing in the thread. Thanks.
bigmakattack
Banned
Good to see that right decision was made.
Also, I'm glad to see Walmart fired her for the comments. An old job I worked had the same thing happen (Guy tells gay guy he's going to hell because god doesnt accept gays), and he wasn't even written up.
Also, I'm glad to see Walmart fired her for the comments. An old job I worked had the same thing happen (Guy tells gay guy he's going to hell because god doesnt accept gays), and he wasn't even written up.
Like many of you I am surprised this actually made it to court. It should be common knowledge that religion does not give you an excuse to go round being an utter knob head to anyone.
I am glad however to be living in a time where common sense issues like this are making constant noticable strides almost daily and being able to see the positive effects.
I am glad however to be living in a time where common sense issues like this are making constant noticable strides almost daily and being able to see the positive effects.
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Wrong Thread
ZephyrFate
Banned
Are you going by the definition of sodomy as rape here? Because I'm pretty sure it's just anal sex and you yourself say in the next sentence that you can have anal/oral sex. And it is sex, by the way. Sex isn't just for reproduction.manueldelalas said:
- Status