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[Narasumas]

Counter productive for who? Lose a day or two of work or a day or two of my weekend. Hmm let me think.

Employee and employer. You have to make up that lost work somehow. Depends on the job obviously…but that shit is still waiting for me when I get back.

 

[funkygunther]

Stop picking fights with everyone. You are unproductively pedantic with anything you disagree on. Just my opinion.

I’m not picking any fight, but I have somehow ended up with someone putting a weird wager on their unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. That wasn't my doing. Stop trying to police this thread.

 

[Narasumas]

I’m not picking any fight, but I have somehow ended up with someone putting a weird wager on their unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. That wasn't my doing. Stop trying to police this thread.

Well I would say you have found yourself in the position you chose to put yourself in….but then instead plead ignorance as to why.

All I’m saying is we should recognize we are not all alike and the conversation should be more nuanced with that in mind.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So within 7 weeks I should expect a level of engagement from you over a story that you have so far completely failed to engage on, looking forward to it

Don't forget the .238, and why are you responding to someone for two pages on a topic they've completely failed to engage on?

 

[Physiognomonics]

Alright everyone. Friday I started to have a tickle in my throat. It became rougher by Sunday. Monday and Tuesday the throat wasn't bad but I had congestion and achy muscles and lower back. By Wednesday I felt ok but bad in the morning. Today, morning sucks. I stuck my head in a coffee can and I can't smell anything. I also can't taste anything. I drank a Florida Man Double IPA from Cigar City last night and couldn't taste it. No rear tongue hit or anything. So no smell/taste. Pretty sure it's Covid. I was double vaxd with Moderna back in June.

You can at the very least do everything to help your immune system, like: plenty of rest, stay hydrated and get the basic stuff: vitamins (C, D), and Zinc. Keep your nose clean the way nannies do it for babies when they have a cold, it'll help.

If you have COVID and if your doctor agrees, I'd dare to advise you to take low dose aspirin (or similar blood thinner) every day to avoid blood clots caused by inflammation. If you can't take blood thinner drugs some every day food can also have similar effects: I'd go for red grapes cause (juice is fine) it will also (supposedly) protect the heart.

 

[funkygunther]

Well I would say you have found yourself in the position you chose to put yourself in….but then instead plead ignorance as to why.

All I’m saying is we should recognize we are not all alike and the conversation should be more nuanced with that in mind.

I'm not in any position, certainly not one you think I'm in. You don't have to look out for other posters, I'm sure if they have the ability they can win me round. They haven't so far.

Don't forget the .238, and why are you responding to someone for two pages on a topic they've completely failed to engage on?

Because in that 7 weeks you'll be able to engage on the actual topics of South West airlines and mask mandates. For the past two pages it's just been about you and your view of the media.

 

[Narasumas]

I'm not in any position, certainly not one you think I'm in. You don't have to look out for other posters, I'm sure if they have the ability they can win me round. They haven't so far.

It’s amazing how you already made my reply for me.

 

[funkygunther]

It’s amazing how you already made my reply for me.

This is just a stock response. Please feel free to take this discussion to your more nuanced view and educate me, or you can just take these potshots.

 

[Irobot82]

You can at the very least do everything to help your immune system, like: plenty of rest, stay hydrated and get the basic stuff: vitamins (C, D), and Zinc. Keep your nose clean the way nannies do it for babies when they have a cold, it'll help.

If you have COVID and if your doctor agrees, I'd dare to advise you to take low dose aspirin (or similar blood thinner) every day to avoid blood clots caused by inflammation. If you can't take blood thinner drugs some every day food can also have similar effects: I'd go for red grapes cause (juice is fine) it will also (supposedly) protect the heart.

You know, I had most of my joint pain under wraps but now that I got sick it's all came roaring back again.

Edit: So I'm hearing I need to drink some red wine. Probably a lot.

 

[Narasumas]

You know, I had most of my joint pain under wraps but now that I got sick it's all came roaring back again.

Edit: So I'm hearing I need to drink some red wine. Probably a lot.

I deal with RA as well as some other immune conditions that result in uncontrollable (and unpredictable) inflammation. Turmeric my friend, turmeric. It really does help calm episodes.

 

[12Goblins]

Should natural immunity exempt someone from a vaccine mandate in the US?

I was watching an interview with the president of Southwest Airlines Pilots Association and he said something that caught my ear. Him and the pilots wanted to sit down with the company and discuss the vaccine mandates and see if pilots that had natural immunity could be exempt from taking the...

www.resetera.com

I'm slowly putting on my anti vax hat reading this thread

 

[Irobot82]

I deal with RA as well as some other immune conditions that result in uncontrollable (and unpredictable) inflammation. Turmeric my friend, turmeric. It really does help calm episodes.

Thanks, I have some Meriva Curcumin. I've been going to the doctor nonstop trying to figure out what I have. I have pains in my wrist, elbow and my knees feel like nuclear reactors. Been tested for RA, came back negative. Tons of bloodwork. Orthopedic says I don't have carpel tunnel but I do have some scaphoid bone damage. No clue on elbows and will be working on me knees next. Shit's wild but I did get prescribed Diclofenac Sodium which I have to get blood tests for frequently but it was like the next day 90% of my pain went away, except my knees. But now most of my pain is back since I got sick.

 

[funkygunther]

Should natural immunity exempt someone from a vaccine mandate in the US?

I was watching an interview with the president of Southwest Airlines Pilots Association and he said something that caught my ear. Him and the pilots wanted to sit down with the company and discuss the vaccine mandates and see if pilots that had natural immunity could be exempt from taking the...

www.resetera.com

I'm slowly putting on my anti vax hat reading this thread

The vaccine gives a decent confidence level of immunity at a relatively low cost. The confidence level is general and uniform enough that policy decisions can be driven from it and it can be used in sociological modelling. There's nothing like that for natural immunity, it'll all need to be created.

 

[Physiognomonics]

You know, I had most of my joint pain under wraps but now that I got sick it's all came roaring back again.

Edit: So I'm hearing I need to drink some red wine. Probably a lot.

You shouldn't drink alcohol when sick. Anything that is naturally lowering inflammation is fine, but my personnal choice would be red grape juice for plenty of reasons and in my experience it's a food that is well tolerated by everyone.

You must think about your whole body, not only your immune system / lowering inflammation, for instance some spices can help but they shouldn't be advised if you have liver or stomach problems etc.

 

[Irobot82]

You shouldn't drink alcohol when sick. Anything that is naturally lowering inflammation is fine, but my personnal choice would be red grape juice for plenty of reasons, in my experience it's one food that is well tolerated for everyone.

You must think about your whole body, not only your immune system / lowering inflammation, for instance some spices can help but they shouldn't be advised if ou have liver or stomach problems etc.

Yeah that part was just a joke.

 

[Narasumas]

Thanks, I have some Meriva Curcumin. I've been going to the doctor nonstop trying to figure out what I have. I have pains in my wrist, elbow and my knees feel like nuclear reactors. Been tested for RA, came back negative. Tons of bloodwork. Orthopedic says I don't have carpel tunnel but I do have some scaphoid bone damage. No clue on elbows and will be working on me knees next. Shit's wild but I did get prescribed Diclofenac Sodium which I have to get blood tests for frequently but it was like the next day 90% of my pain went away, except my knees. But now most of my pain is back since I got sick.

Well I really hope you can get it figured out. Inflammation is mostly immune related and we really only understand the tip of the iceberg about our bodies own immune systems. I hate to bring it up, but also consider an HIV test if that hasn’t already been done. Otherwise for localized, immediate relief, you can give Voltaren a shot. Haven’t tried it myself but it’s a topical NSAID that used to be prescription, now OTC. For me, the biggest triggers are sleep and stress.

 

[12Goblins]

The vaccine gives a decent confidence level of immunity at a relatively low cost. The confidence level is general and uniform enough that policy decisions can be driven from it and it can be used in sociological modelling. There's nothing like that for natural immunity, it'll all need to be created.

I mean give them a 2-3 month window at least..imagine being forced to vaccinate immediately after a bout of covid; it's madness unless I'm missing something...

 

[Narasumas]

I mean give them a 2-3 month window at least..imagine being forced to vaccinate immediately after a bout of covid; it's madness unless I'm missing something...

That was me. I had a pretty damn good infection and messed me up good. After talking with my doc we settled on getting the jab around the 90 day mark post recovery which was really only a few weeks ago. You do have to give your body time.

That era thread you linked me to really blew my mind. They would have you get the shot while still actively fighting the natural infection lol.

 

[funkygunther]

I mean give them a 2-3 month window at least..imagine being forced to vaccinate immediately after a bout of covid; it's madness unless I'm missing something...

Is there anything out there that suggests once you are recovered and out of quarantine phase you shouldn't get the vaccine?

 

[Narasumas]

Is there anything out there that suggests once you are recovered and out of quarantine phase you shouldn't get the vaccine?

Well I guess it starts with defining recovered. For me that wasn’t overnight.

 

[funkygunther]

Well I guess it starts with defining recovered. For me that wasn’t overnight.

It's generally two weeks. Your CDC specifies 10 days after onset of symptoms and with no continual symptoms other than loss of taste/smell. Regardless if you still have covid symptoms or are testing positive after this period you'd be isolating anyway, which makes vaccine mandate exemption talk here irrelevant.

 

[12Goblins]

Is there anything out there that suggests once you are recovered and out of quarantine phase you shouldn't get the vaccine?

I don't think so. I'm just thinking about it from an infectious point of view. if you just got done fighting COVID, you should be able to mingle with others willy nilly for at least 3 months without putting others at risk, right?

 

[funkygunther]

I don't think so. I'm just thinking about it from an infectious point of view. if you just gone fighting COVID, you should be able to mingle with others willy nilly for at least 3 months without putting others at risk, right?

Not sure where you got 3 months from, are you in the US? If so...

Quarantine & Isolation

COVID-19 quarantine and isolation recommendations.

www.cdc.gov

 

[segasonic]

Eastern Europe not looking good





Unvaxxed children are becoming victims of science-ignoring policy makers:

 

[funkygunther]

Eastern Europe not looking good

This is a good summary of wtf is happening in Romania. Just a sad situation.

Romania’s COVID-19 vaccine goes off the rails - VaccinesToday

After a bright start, apathy, distrust and misinformation derailed Romania’s vaccine programme. 1 in 3 adults is vaccinated ‒ far below the EU average

www.vaccinestoday.eu

 

[12Goblins]

Not sure where you got 3 months from, are you in the US? If so...

Quarantine & Isolation

COVID-19 quarantine and isolation recommendations.

www.cdc.gov

I'm just guessing numbers

seems we have "stable" antibodies for at least 7 months according to this study

Seven-month kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and role of pre-existing antibodies to human coronaviruses - Nature Communications

Long-term characterisation of SARS-CoV-2 antibody kinetics is needed to understand the protective role of the immune response. Here the authors describe antibody levels and neutralisation activity in healthcare workers over seven months and investigate the role of immunity to endemic human...

www.nature.com

telling those who just fought covid they can't enjoy the same freedoms as those vaccinated, wether it be traveling, concerts, etc seems pretty unfair from an infectivity POV, even if it's only for 60-90 days or whatever

 

[funkygunther]

I'm just guessing numbers

seems we have "stable" antibodies for at least 7 months according to this study

Seven-month kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and role of pre-existing antibodies to human coronaviruses - Nature Communications

Long-term characterisation of SARS-CoV-2 antibody kinetics is needed to understand the protective role of the immune response. Here the authors describe antibody levels and neutralisation activity in healthcare workers over seven months and investigate the role of immunity to endemic human...

www.nature.com

telling those who just fought covid they can't enjoy the same freedoms as those vaccinated, wether it be traveling, concerts, etc seems pretty unfair from an infectivity POV, even if it's only for 60-90 days or whatever

It's a logistical expense not worth considering when the simplest and cheapest solution is to just get the vaccine and then enjoy those freedoms.

 

[Narasumas]

I'm just guessing numbers

seems we have "stable" antibodies for at least 7 months according to this study

Seven-month kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and role of pre-existing antibodies to human coronaviruses - Nature Communications

Long-term characterisation of SARS-CoV-2 antibody kinetics is needed to understand the protective role of the immune response. Here the authors describe antibody levels and neutralisation activity in healthcare workers over seven months and investigate the role of immunity to endemic human...

www.nature.com

telling those who just fought covid they can't enjoy the same freedoms as those vaccinated, wether it be traveling, concerts, etc seems pretty unfair from an infectivity POV, even if it's only for 60-90 days or whatever

Furthermore to that….there’s just been a very broad lack of discussion on natural immunity. I understand all of the points previously made here by others (and in your linked era thread, for better or worse), but it still doesn’t excuse why this isn’t being talked about or factored into the overall equation more so than it is now.

Look, I’m not saying having a previous severe case of COVID makes you superman, or makes you more susceptible for that matter….I’m saying it’s just not really talked about as part of the general narrative and that does bother me considering the overwhelming number of individuals with previous infections. It’s certainly relevant to discuss.

 

[12Goblins]

It's a logistical expense not worth considering when the simplest and cheapest solution is to just get the vaccine and then enjoy those freedoms.

and I get that, but unfortunately not everyone is able to see it that way. I'm just thinking of ways to make good faith attempts to reach out to those 20-30% or so Americans who have a profound distrust of medicine and are willing to go as far as lose their jobs and livelihood for their beliefs. we gotta reach out to these people or things are just gonna keep getting worse. maybe I'm being naive

 

[funkygunther]

and I get that, but unfortunately not everyone is able to see it that way. I'm just thinking of ways to make good faith attempts to reach out to those 20-30% or so Americans who have a profound distrust of medicine and are willing to go as far as lose their jobs and livelihood for their beliefs. we gotta reach out to these people or things are just gonna keep getting worse. maybe I'm being naive

Telling them all to get covid because then they're free as the rest is not the way either.

 

[Narasumas]

Telling them all to get covid because then they're free as the rest is not the way either.

Nobody WANTS to get Covid, and the advice isn’t to go out and get it either. This is for those who have HAD it, to better understand where they sit among the situation of things. It’s been ambiguously unclear.

 

[funkygunther]

Nobody WANTS to get Covid, and the advice isn’t to go out and get it either. This is for those who have HAD it, to better understand where this sit among the situation of things. It’s been ambiguously unclear.

I know, because I have been keeping up with what's being written. Now it's your turn: I responded directly to 12Goblins concern about 20-30% having a distrust in medicine that this gives them an olive branch.

So simmer down and STOP trying to patronise me.

 

[12Goblins]

Telling them all to get covid because then they're free as the rest is not the way either.

yeah but I feel like if you work with people on stuff like this they'll be will be more willing to cooperate and eventually get vaccine on their own volition, which is ultimately what we want. if you dig your hills and tell people that have gained natural immunity and are known to be not infectious that they can't participate with the rest of society, it'll just keep driving everyone apart which is probably how we got here in the first place slowly over time

 

[funkygunther]

yeah but I feel like if you work with people on stuff like this they'll be will be more willing to cooperate and eventually get vaccine on their own volition, which is ultimately what we want. if you dig your hills and tell people that have gained natural immunity and are known to be not infectious that they can't participate with the rest of society, it'll just keep driving everyone apart which is how we got here in the first place

But those aren't 30% of the country. Only about 10% of your population has had Covid and recovered, and then out of those you further whittle down those who have gone on to be vaccinated or where their immunity has run out and you're actually looking at a smaller percentage of potentially eligible "natural immune". There's no way to square these people with the rest who don't want the vaccine.

 

[Narasumas]

I know, because I have been keeping up with what's being written. Now it's your turn: I responded directly to 12Goblins concern about 20-30% having a distrust in medicine that this gives them an olive branch.

So simmer down and STOP trying to patronise me.

Are you serious right now? At no point was I patronizing. Genuine response to a dialogue shift. Sorry I capitilized a word in my response, and I'm sorry I don't spend all day on message boards. I'm pretty sure patronizing someone is being condescending or superior to someone under the guise of being helpful, which a mirror would probably help put in context for you. Oh, I'm sorry was I just patronizing you? I did now, thanks. C'mon dude.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Exactly. There aren't many Americans who can keep up with the 24 hour news cycle. Looking into every fishy story takes a lot of time and effort that most people don't want to spend.

Try reading about HALT and consider leaving childish insults on the scrap heap.

Ok, but new rule: If you don't have time to know what you're talking about, you don't argue with people about it or have strongly held opinions on the matter.

It's okay to not know things. But being opinionated about things you don't actually take the time to learn about seems silly.

 

[funkygunther]

Are you serious right now? At no point was I patronizing. Genuine response to a dialogue shift. Sorry I capitilized a word in my response, and I'm sorry I don't spend all day on message boards. I'm pretty sure patronizing someone is being condescending or superior to someone under the guise of being helpful, which a mirror would probably help put in context for you. Oh, I'm sorry was I just patronizing you? I did now, thanks. C'mon dude.

Your response didn't take that dialogue shift into account so I pointed it out. Your response instead assumed I wasn't keeping up (with what you thought we were talking about, ironically) and you decided to emphasise keywords to make SURE I was getting the POINT.

 

[SF Kosmo]

But those aren't 30% of the country. Only about 10% of your population has had Covid and recovered, and then out of those you further whittle down those who have gone on to be vaccinated or where their immunity has run out and you're actually looking at a smaller percentage of potentially eligible "natural immune". There's no way to square these people with the rest who don't want the vaccine.

A recent antibody test seems like a pretty straightforward way to deal with it. If you can furnish test results showing that immunity that is probably a reasonable equivalent to proof of vaccination.

Also kind of a pain in the ass compared to just getting the jab, and won't last forever once your antibodies fade, but hey. Your life.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Ok, but new rule: If you don't have time to know what you're talking about, you don't argue with people about it or have strongly held opinions on the matter.

It's okay to not know things. But being opinionated about things you don't actually take the time to learn about seems silly.

Nope.

I'll say what I want. You keep doing you.

Cheers.

 

[Narasumas]

A recent antibody test seems like a pretty straightforward way to deal with it. If you can furnish test results showing that immunity that is probably a reasonable equivalent to proof of vaccination.

Also kind of a pain in the ass compared to just getting the jab, and won't last forever once your antibodies fade, but hey. Your life.

That would be nice, but that's part of my frustration. At least to me, none of this has been very clear.

"FDA Advises Against Use of SARS-CoV-2 Antibody Test Results to Evaluate Immunity or Protection From COVID-19, Including After Vaccination"​

FDA In Brief: FDA Advises Against Use of SARS-CoV-2 Antibody Test Results to Evaluate Immunity or Protection From COVID-19, Including After Vaccination

FDA issued a safety communication to advise against using SARS-CoV-2 antibody test results to evaluate immunity after COVID-19 vaccination.

www.fda.gov

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Should natural immunity exempt someone from a vaccine mandate in the US?

I was watching an interview with the president of Southwest Airlines Pilots Association and he said something that caught my ear. Him and the pilots wanted to sit down with the company and discuss the vaccine mandates and see if pilots that had natural immunity could be exempt from taking the...

www.resetera.com

I'm slowly putting on my anti vax hat reading this thread

You shouldn't link to such racist websites.

 

[BadBurger]

As long as I waited for these lies...sorry, mistakes.

Media Errors during the Trump Era: A Comprehensive List | Sharyl Attkisson

Discover a comprehensive list of media errors made during the Trump era. Explore notable mistakes and missteps in reporting.

sharylattkisson.com

Why is everything political for you? Why is everything a conspiracy? I mean, pages worth of arguing about some airline cancelling flights (why this matters or who cares I don't know), and now linking to a clearly far-right blog parading as "independent journalism" (boy, haven't seen that before....).

It's wild to witness a person tumble down a biased, conspiracy-theory driven worldview fed to them by partisan opportunists and be like "oh buy I'm a skeptic. Asking questions. FAKE NEWS!" I mean, it's as if grandma's Facebook from 2016 sprang to life and started posting on a discussion forum.

 

[Irobot82]

Took my first home test. It was as bright as my wife's first pregnancy test. Hot damn.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Why is everything political for you? Why is everything a conspiracy? I mean, pages worth of arguing about some airline cancelling flights (why this matters or who cares I don't know), and now linking to a clearly far-right blog parading as "independent journalism" (boy, haven't seen that before....).

It's wild to witness a person tumble down a biased, conspiracy-theory driven worldview fed to them by partisan opportunists and be like "oh buy I'm a skeptic. Asking questions. FAKE NEWS!" I mean, it's as if grandma's Facebook from 2016 sprang to life and started posting on a discussion forum.

I enjoy seeing these Hail Mary attempts at discrediting opposition and criticism as being "far right".

I mean, how far right are we talking? She won 5 Emmy Awards (the Emmys are alt right I think?), worked at CBS News for 21 years (CBS is to the right of OANN I think), she also holds a myriad of traditionally left wing views (but that's probably a smokescreen).

How far right we talking?

It looks like you're part of the 29 percent. I was still there about three years ago. Life is fluid. Keep swimming.

US ranks last among 46 countries in trust in media, Reuters Institute report finds - Poynter

Just 29% of people surveyed in the U.S. said they trust the news, compared to 45% in Canada and 54% in Brazil.

www.poynter.org

 

[Xenon]

Just watched the JRE with Gupta. The scariest shit I heard was Dr. G's reason for vaccinating children. While I agree that children should be approved for those with high risk and/or comorbidities, the idea of mass vaccinations of children for a virus that has almost no chance of harming them for the greater good is a horrifying precedent to set. But hey Gupta wants this virus gone, so let's go.

 

[12Goblins]

I enjoy seeing these Hail Mary attempts at discrediting opposition and criticism as being "far right".

I mean, how far right are we talking? She won 5 Emmy Awards (the Emmys are alt right I think?), worked at CBS News for 21 years (CBS is to the right of OANN I think), she also holds a myriad of traditionally left wing views (but that's probably a smokescreen).

How far right we talking?

It looks like you're part of the 29 percent. I was still there about three years ago. Life is fluid. Keep swimming.

US ranks last among 46 countries in trust in media, Reuters Institute report finds - Poynter

Just 29% of people surveyed in the U.S. said they trust the news, compared to 45% in Canada and 54% in Brazil.

www.poynter.org

it's bad when your sources are worse than CNN, I hope you realize that

 

[Halo is Back]

Here we go again. Cyclical.

Conspiratorial thinking, YouTubers and other grifters are telling The Truth while doctors and scientists are lying, bla bla bla. Predictable but the longer it goes on the sadder it is to see.

Hey man, they got their degrees on Facebook. Show some respect

 

[Loki]

Unvaxxed children are becoming victims of science-ignoring policy makers:

Gonna have to see the receipts on that one, because from the CDC's own data it's more like 2.5-3%, not 8%. From this link: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

September 2021, all sexes, age 0-17: 52 deaths involving COVID out of 1870 total deaths in the cohort (2.8%)

Yes, it is not EXACTLY apples to apples, because the tweet is for 5-14 year olds, and the CDC data is for 0-17 year olds, but I see no reason to believe that the under 5's and over 14's in this data set both comprise a sufficiently large portion of the data and have a sufficiently low mortality due to COVID that it could drag the average for the 0-17 group down from 8% to ~3%.

This is to say nothing of my initial reaction to the tweet/graph, which was "why are there no absolute numbers cited?" Which I already know the answer to, of course. Citing percentages might elucidate certain patterns if you were looking at, say, the number of COVID deaths in the 5-14 year old range as a percentage of total COVID deaths. But, increasingly, excluding raw numbers in favor of percentages is employed in a tendentious manner.

 

[funkygunther]

If you can furnish test results showing that immunity that is probably a reasonable equivalent to proof of vaccination.

This is the big if. Pretty sure the pinprick blood tests we have now just report if any antibodies are found in your system or not.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Just watched the JRE with Gupta. The scariest shit I heard was Dr. G's reason for vaccinating children. While I agree that children should be approved for those with high risk and/or comorbidities, the idea of mass vaccinations of children for a virus that has almost no chance of harming them for the greater good is a horrifying precedent to set. But hey Gupta wants this virus gone, so let's go.

You are so self destructive.