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[Prospero]

There's been a roundtable discussion of 2004's movies going on at Slate for the past few days, and it's getting more acrimonious over time. Today, for instance, we have--

I'm not tsk-tsking Gibson and Moore for not doing things the "proper" way. I'm calling them out for making shit—anti-Semitic shit in Gibson's case; opportunistic showboating shit based on real death and war in Moore's.

The discussion is worth reading through, but because lists are what power the Internet, here are some best-of-2004 lists, and another one that's worst-of-2004.

link

1. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
2. Sideways
3. Hero and House of Flying Daggers
4. Bad Education
5. The Incredibles
6. Tarnation
7. Metallica: Some Kind of Monster
8. Moolaadé
9. Kill Bill: Vol. 2
10. Goodbye, Dragon Inn
11. Spanglish
12. Team America: World Police
13. Collateral (FIRST HALF ONLY)

1. House of Flying Daggers and Hero
2. The Dreamers
3. Before Sunset
4. Last Life in the Universe
5. Goodbye, Dragon Inn
6. Ray
7. A Very Long Engagement
8. Hotel Rwanda
9. Blissfully Yours
10. 13 Going on 30

1. Before Sunset
2. House of Flying Daggers
3. Hotel Rwanda
4. Last Life in the Universe
5. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead
6. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
7. The Incredibles and The Spongebob Squarepants Movie (tie)
8. Hellboy
9. The Aviator
10. Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle

Twelve worst movies of the year, and twelve neglected films that did the same thing better

De-Lovely < You Got Served
Closer < When Will I Be Loved?
Birth < Deserted Station
Finding Neverland < Bear Cub
The Aviator < The Dreamers
Tarnation < The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
Maria Full of Grace < Spanglish
Dogville < Greendale
Cowards Bend the Knee < Torque
Before Sunset < Mr. 3000
The Sea Inside < Crimson Gold
Motorcycle Diaries < Hotel Rwanda

1. Million Dollar Baby
2. The Big Red One: The Reconstruction
3. Moolaadé
4. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
5. Tarnation
6. Goodbye Dragon Inn
7. Kinsey
8. The Incredibles
9. Tokyo Godfathers
10. Fahrenheit 9/11

1. Bad Education
2. Tarnation
3. Open Water
4. In Good Company
5. Shrek 2
6. Vera Drake
7. The Notebook
8. Crimson Gold
9. Fahrenheit 9/11
10. Kinsey

1. Bad Education
2. Million Dollar Baby
3. Tarnation
4. Vera Drake
5. Moolaade
6. Goodbye, Dragon Inn
7. Crimson Gold
8. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
9. I'm Not Scared/Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
10. Kill Bill, Vol. 2

EDIT: another critic's joined in, with another list.

link

1. Star Spangled to Death, and Notre Musique
2. Kill Bill Vol. 2
3. Dogville
4. Million Dollar Baby
5. Moolaadé
6. Vera Drake
7. Distant
8. Before Sunset
9. Kinsey
10. Collateral, and Los Angeles Plays Itself

 

[Duck of Death]

Twelve worst movies of the year, and twelve neglected films that did the same thing better

De-Lovely < You Got Served
Closer < When Will I Be Loved?
Birth < Deserted Station
Finding Neverland < Bear Cub
The Aviator < The Dreamers
Tarnation < The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
Maria Full of Grace < Spanglish
Dogville < Greendale
Cowards Bend the Knee < Torque
Before Sunset < Mr. 3000
The Sea Inside < Crimson Gold
Motorcycle Diaries < Hotel Rwanda

What. The. Fuck.

Out of those critics, I mostly agree with A.O. Scott and Wesley Morris. The others though. . . .

 

[Willco]

No Spider-Man 2 makes these lists a complete joke.

 

[ThirstyFly]

Originally Posted by David Edelstein of Slate:
3. Hero and House of Flying Daggers

Originally Posted by Charles Taylor of Salon:
1. House of Flying Daggers and Hero

What is this bollocks? They are two different movies, why must they share a slot?

 

[border]

Doesn't seem like the critics have a consensus on much of anything....I wonder if Hollywood will? Oscars might be interesting this year.

Nice to see Before Sunset making a couple lists. I really have no idea what the fuck a Bernie Mac movie could be doing better than it....I think they were just looking to find a place to bash Sunset (one of the few critics that takes it to be vain, pretentious, etc).

 

[N Coward Parody]

A.O. Scott is one of the few sane critics out there. Love the guy.

I haven't seen a number of the movies on his top ten list, but I sure as hell intend to... I'm surprised Hotel Rwanda didn't make it...

And I agree with Federman, I'm SHOCKED by the lack of Spiderman 2 on anyone's list. The appearance of Mr. Potter, however, is well deserved.



*Noel Coward Parody

 

[Duck of Death]

Doesn't seem like the critics have a consensus on much of anything....I wonder if Hollywood will? Oscars might be interesting this year.

It's becomming a little more clear as to which films are the frontrunners in the Oscar race this year, due to the numerous critic choices and the guild awards. So far it looks like Finding Neverland, Sideways, The Aviator, and Million Dollar Baby are the ones to beat. Hotel Rwanda will probably fill up the fifth slot.

 

[sefskillz]

I was almost positive Dreamers was a 2003 release, was odd seeing it on the lists. But it hit Sundance in January, apparently. I liked Charles Taylor's list, but the 13 going on 30 at the end made me go 'wtf'

 

[Willco]

And I agree with Federman, I'm SHOCKED by the lack of Spiderman 2 on anyone's list. The appearance of Mr. Potter, however, is well deserved.

Especially considering it was one of the highest rated films in wide release last year. And it also got the WILL FEDERMAN OFFICIAL SEAL OF QUALITY ®, which is big in South Korea and Poland.

 

[shuri]

Maria Full of Grace < Spanglish

That's like comparing Apolo 13 to Spaceball; saying Spaceball is a better movie about space exploration. Holy fuck american reviewers are retarded.

 

[Warm Machine]

I agree, Torque is neglected and certainly under appreciated.

 

[Prospero]

These are things I found interesting about the lists: not things I necessarily agree or disagree with, but interesting all the same--

--as others have said, the total lack of Spider-Man 2. Though it's hard to argue that "critics don't like comic-book movies" when The Incredibles is on several lists and even Hellboy is on one, and hard to argue that "critics don't like summer movies" when Harry Potter is also on several lists. Surprising.

--despite the Oscar buzz that seems to come with a Miramax movie each year, the near-total lack of The Aviator (one best-of list at #9, and the worst-of list), and not much discussion of the film in the series of posts by the critics. (My guess--critics are thinking of it a Miramax movie, not a Scorsese movie.)

--the near-total lack of Collateral: one back-handed compliment and another one putting it in the #10 slot.

The "worst-of" list is also interesting reading, even if it seems off-the-wall or intentionally provocative. In response to Warm Machine's post--his description of Torque (which I didn't see in the theater) as a satire of action movies reminded me of Starship Troopers, which was also clearly a satire, and which I still maintain critics didn't understand when they piled on it. Maybe I'll check Torque out on DVD.

 

[Iceman]

Passion of the Christ. Passion of the Christ. Passion of the Christ.

 

[border]

Passion of the Christ. Passion of the Christ. Passion of the Christ.

.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Ebert's List might be a little off, but it's still 100 times better than all those ones. No wonder he's no longer in this bullshit movie club.

 

[swoon]

i'm glad that bad education made it on all these list. easily my favorite film of the year. really though, why worry about spiderman 2?

 

[Prospero]

i'm glad that bad education made it on all these list. easily my favorite film of the year.

Yeah, I wish that were playing somewhere besides NYC and a couple of theaters in Jersey (at least in my part of the US).

 

[Macam]

::shrugs:: Critics will be critics, so I don't have much of a problem with the lists.

I certainly don't have a problem with Spider-Man 2 not being on there, since it's cinematic fodder as far as critics' lists goes. It makes sense to me too, since The Incredibles just has more depth to it and matches, if not exceeds, the production qualities of Spider-Man 2. But you know, it's pure heaven for Spidey junkies and even if I don't much care for the movies, I understand why people want to see it on there.

What I do have a problem with is whomever listed Spanglish as being better than Maria Full of Grace. Now I can't say it with any absolute certainty since I haven't seen Spanglish, and perhaps it's just the way they marketed it, but I mean, really, it's an Adam Sandler movie...and Maria Full of Grace was damn good. That just can't be right. Then again, whomever made that list is sitting at the opposite side of the Opinion Table from me, because the movies I have seen on that list, I can't imagine being as bad as he makes them out to be. Except The Aviator which was probably the least endurable movie I've seen all year.

 

[Willco]

I certainly don't have a problem with Spider-Man 2 not being on there, since it's cinematic fodder as far as critics' lists goes. It makes sense to me too, since The Incredibles just has more depth to it and matches, if not exceeds, the production qualities of Spider-Man 2. But you know, it's pure heaven for Spidey junkies and even if I don't much care for the movies, I understand why people want to see it on there.

Spider-Man 2 wasn't cinematic fodder. It scored huge with critics and before The Incredibles and a few other films, was by far, the highest rated wide release film of 2004.

RT Stats:

Reviews counted: 214
Fresh: 198 Rotten: 16
Average Rating: 8.3/10

... That's also a higher average rating than The Incredibles, by the way. Not to say The Incredibles is inferior or anything.

 

[COCKLES]

Spiderman 2 is like a super sized Big Mac 'n Fries.

It's enjoyable while your eating it....but it leaves you hungry a few hours later with not much nutritional value.

 

[Willco]

Spiderman 2 is like a super sized Big Mac 'n Fries.

It's enjoyable while your eating it....but it leaves you hungry a few hours later with not much nutritional value.

Wow, that is deep. Here's one.

The Matrix Reloaded is like a McDonald's Veggie Burger. It sucks.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

I know I'm glad Spider-Man 2 isn't on anyone's list. I thought it was quite forgettable. Considering how much I like Michael Chabon's writing and storytelling style, I really didn't like it. Hopefully, since he's in charge of working on his own script for this one, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay will be the greatest comic book story of all time, as far as film is concerned.

Sideways definitely deserves a spot on everyone's list, and I've yet to see Bad Education (not until next week). I would've liked to have seen The Motorcycle Diaries higher up on a couple lists.

Ebert's a good guy for acknowledging Baadasssss! That one has been overlooked.

 

[sefskillz]

Now I can't say it with any absolute certainty since I haven't seen Spanglish, and perhaps it's just the way they marketed it, but I mean, really, it's an Adam Sandler movie...and Maria Full of Grace was damn good. That just can't be right.

eh, Sandler plays in a supporting role. I enjoyed Spanglish quite a bit, it was scattered at times but it was a very enjoyable movie. It's not typical Sandler, he plays a husband trapped in a loveless marriage. For what it's worth, its a James L Brooks (As Good as It Gets) movie. Comparing it to Maria Full of Grace is just dumb.

 

[border]

Spider-Man 2 just doesn't seem very dazzling after some time passes.....that would perhaps be the best explanation for the snubbing.

Or maybe upon release it was just held to a lower standard because it's a popcorn movie, and at the end of the year "an excellent popcorn movie" doesn't get as much priority as "an excellent movie".

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Spider-Man 2 is 6th on Ebert's list, now stop crying, spidey fanboys.

 

[karasu]

Feh. My list:

1- Last Life in the Universe
2- The Dreamers
3- Twilight Samurai
4 -Once Upon a Time in High School
5- Kill Bill 2
6- Spiderman 2
7- Casshern
8- Ghost in the Shell2: Innocence
9- The Motorcycle Diaries
10- Metallica: Some Kind of Monster

 

[Hayami]

Goddamn, you guys are dumb. The movies on the LEFT are neglected and did shit better.

 

[Prospero]

Goddamn, you guys are dumb. The movies on the LEFT are neglected and did shit better.

Congratulations: you just demonstrated that you completely failed to click on the link just above the list of films.

 

[Iceman]

Wait a second.. is Torque actually worth seeing?

 

[Prospero]

Wait a second.. is Torque actually worth seeing?

Well, I don't know, but here's what that guy says:

Kahn satirizes action movies [while respecting] the expressive potential of the vroom-vroom genre. The only rival to Torque's images would be a collaboration between Godard and James Rosenquist. After Hero, it's the most exultant pop art of the year. Turn the sound off and it's still a thrill.

He could be wrong, but I haven't seen the movie. He seems a little crazy, but I like the cut of his jib (and even if those aren't the twelve worst films of the year, I agree with what he has to say about The Aviator and Dogville).