Support NeoGAF

[Docpan]

FINISH IT SECRETLY, LEAKZOR VIA BITTORRENT.

 

[TheDiave]

This reminds me of when Funimation and Infogrames issued a similar order to the folks working on "Bid for Power," a DBZ-themed mod for Quake 3. These people don't intend to sell the homebrews, why stomp on the foot of these guys' passion?

Man, fuck big business.

 

[DarkCloud]

That sucks...This was probably as close as we'll ever get to a faithful reproduction of Chrono Trigger.

Did the c&d notification state you had to remove all old media linked from your site? Any chance you might put any remixed music done for this project up on a site like overclocked or whatever...as the previous three pieces you had up before were good stuff. Shame to see that go to waste.

 

[ManDudeChild]

That's a shame Too bad Square Enix didn't acquire the game and let it be finished.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Was it ever playable? The trailer didn't show any gameplay.

 

[epmode]

FINISH IT SECRETLY, LEAKZOR VIA BITTORRENT.

iawtp.

this project looks incredible. i was also looking forward to that 2d remake of the ocarina of time/majora's mask, but nintendo shut that down, too.

it's sad to see how overly protective japanese companies are of their IPs. george lucas may be the worst person in the world, but it's nice to know that he has no problem with the dozens of fan-made star wars films. hell, every once in a while, something worthwhile is actually made. if nothing else, it helps the fan-base grow.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

As a longtime follower of this project, I salute you.

Wow. Those shots up there are amazing. I love those imps!

Why don't fangame makers finish their games THEN let pople know about in and downlod it? Then it'd be all over the place before anything could be done about it.

I'd imagine the community love helps a lot as far as keeping them motivated. Also, if Square Enix or whomever gets upset about a project at THIS point, their response could be much, much greater if a finished project was all of a sudden out there and couldn't be contained.

Couldnt just you recycle the engine and work on a real game?

Well, from the Chrono Resurrection page:

We'll be back soon with something new and fresh.

So who knows? Well, other than Zeenbor.

 

[SKluck]

Why don't people just keep their mouths shut and go "SURPRISE!" and release the thing complete? Sure it would suck keeping a secret you think is that cool, but at least you can complete the thing.

 

[Naked Snake]

Why don't people just keep their mouths shut and go "SURPRISE!" and release the thing complete? Sure it would suck keeping a secret you think is that cool, but at least you can complete the thing.

And get your ass sued?

 

[GaimeGuy]

iawtp.

this project looks incredible. i was also looking forward to that 2d remake of the ocarina of time/majora's mask, but nintendo shut that down, too.

it's sad to see how overly protective japanese companies are of their IPs. george lucas may be the worst person in the world, but it's nice to know that he has no problem with the dozens of fan-made star wars films. hell, every once in a while, something worthwhile is actually made. if nothing else, it helps the fan-base grow.

Incorrect. Nintendo had nothing to do with that site being shut down. YAHOO shut it down, not Nintendo. Get your facts straight. and don't even get me started on that OoT 2D project.

 

[RiZ III]

Squenix got scared cause this looked better than most of the shit they've been putting out recently.

 

[epmode]

and don't even get me started on that OoT 2D project.

too late. why did yahoo shut it down then? nintendo had absolutely nothing to do with it?

 

[SKluck]

And get your ass sued?

Um, are you saying they started this project with absolutely no intention to release it? At least keeping it quiet they can make a product, release it through other channels. It would be OUT, and couldn't be stopped from spreading. That is the point. Not like they have to put their names and addresses in it anyway.

 

[LakeEarth]

 

[AniHawk]

Zeenbor, it looks great. Loved the trailer.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Damn SE, it looked great, in fact, i still remember the first models for this project, it was chrono and you posted here asking for opinions, well it wasnt very positive and i think i even participated in the negativity but wow, you guys got very very far and improved a whole lot, very impressive work.

Why dont big studios try to support fan projects and maybe even hire them? Look at the counterstrike team, started with barely anything, then got more and more support from Valve and now they're pretty much in bed, everyone's happy and making money.

If SE saw your work and decided to protect their IP by shutting down the project, did you try to send a demo of your game to some higher ups? Perhaps some japanese dev that originally worked on the game, maybe even chrono cross' director (and trigger's story writer) that now work at monolith, maybe they would be interested in your talent, unlike company lawyers who just protect their company and its IPs, not giving a damn how far or how talented you were.

Send screenshots to famitsu and try to play it off as if it was officially from square, would be funny as heck if it was published and every japanese gamers would drool all over it, SE would be in a bad position

 

[neptunes]

Send screenshots to famitsu and try to play it off as if it was officially from square, would be funny as heck if it was published and every japanese gamers would drool all over it, SE would be in a bad position

They would get sued left, right and center.

 

[fennec fox]

Counter-Strike was made on the Half-Life engine, with the blessings of Valve, because that was what the creators wanted people to do with the engine. This is a remake of a copyrighted game made without Square's permission. There's a fair amount of difference here. I mean, it's the same thing as the guy who tried to publish a sequel to Gone with the Wind told from the slaves' point of view -- perhaps it's a good concept for a story, but there's no way it doesn't run afoul of copyright laws.

 

[epmode]

I mean, it's the same thing as the guy who tried to publish a sequel to Gone with the Wind told from the slaves' point of view -- perhaps it's a good concept for a story, but there's no way it doesn't run afoul of copyright laws.

if i remember correctly, that person was planning on selling the book.

 

[Brandon F]

That looked even better than the recently released DQ5 remake!

Almost makes me want to dig out the game for another run, too bad the PSX port is a total suckfest.

 

[Chibbi Brady]

Um, are you saying they started this project with absolutely no intention to release it? At least keeping it quiet they can make a product, release it through other channels. It would be OUT, and couldn't be stopped from spreading. That is the point. Not like they have to put their names and addresses in it anyway.

Someone said it earlier in the thread, but the support from the fans goes a really long way in keeping the team motivated. I was involved in a huge mod once for Jedi Knight/MotS and for the first few months it's very exciting. Everyone on the team is entusiastic, communication is very high and work goes along at a fair old pace. After a while though it feels like work, you realise you're not getting paid and you're logging in a huge amount of hours into something you're slowly starting to resent. There are times when you probably want to pack it all in, then you might post a few pics on a forum or your website and the feedback and outpouring of support from the fans is hugely uplifting. You're re-energized and back to work you go.

That's the way it worked out for us, unfortunately we never released our project but it was
something special. Huge shame this got shut down because it looks fantastic. You guys have captured the feel perfectly, it was always going to end this way but I hope the experience you've had was a positive one and one which might catapault some of you to greater things. A few of our team got picked up by Epic amonst others.

 

[Bluemercury]

There goes the only chance of having a decent Square game on GC not designed by Square.....

 

[DopeyFish]

as long as you don't sell the game, and as long as you don't use any artwork or sounds from the game and you call it a tribute or something... then it should be completely legal, by all means.

 

[Vennt]

as long as you don't sell the game, and as long as you don't use any artwork or sounds from the game and you call it a tribute or something... then it should be completely legal, by all means.

Absolute rubbish. And I'd advise against giving legal advice where you are clearly unqualified to do so.

Copyright & trademark infringement is copyright & trademark infringement, generally motivation or monetary gain doesn't come into it & "Fair Use" rights are a lot narrower than you would believe.

Freeburn
(Speaking as someone who has successfully sued a company for copyright infringement, and is proud of the fact )

 

[DopeyFish]

Absolute rubbish. And I'd advise against giving legal advice where you are clearly unqualified to do so.

Copyright & trademark infringement is copyright & trademark infringement, generally motivation or monetary gain doesn't come into it & "Fair Use" rights are a lot narrower than you would believe.

Freeburn
(Speaking as someone who has successfully sued a company for copyright infringement, and is proud of the fact )

I was unaware that "likeness" proved useful anymore

 

[BuddyC]

i'm gonna hunt around for kobun's post on copyright & trademark infringement. here, this should help explain things.

It's actually quite dangerous. If you don't protect your IP you run the risk of losing it.

Well, first off there's the common sense logic that if a "Zelda game" is available for free, people will play that instead of Nintendo's. You can argue how much this actually affects them, but there is an effect.

Another potentially more damaging situation is this: if a company doesn't protect its IP, it could get to the point where it is percieved as being in the public domain. If Nintendo didn't go after every use of its characters in a game, then they set themselves up for a situation like this years down the line:

-A company uses Nintendo characters in a game, and sells it.
-Nintendo sues.
-Said company's legal defense is to point to all the times when Nintendo DIDN'T protect the copyright on their characters, allowing other such companies/individuals to use the characters in games.
-Company wins, and Mario/Zelda/what have you becomes de facto in the public domain.

 

[neptunes]

There goes the only chance of having a decent Square game on GC not designed by Square.....

That's on the PC no? (it has to be)

Did they even begin start on console work?

 

[God's Hand]

Instead of being attention whores, you should have kept this project quiet and only revealed it when it was complete. At least you get it out to one person, that one person can spread to thousands on P2P. Oh well.

 

[Vennt]

I was unaware that "likeness" proved useful anymore

I've tried running this line through various "multiple-negative" decoders and all of them screamed "Incoherant" at me :/

If you're alluding to the fact that you can get away with being "alike" to an IP property you are missing 2 things:

1. we are discussing an actual "use" of IP, not an "alike"

2. regardless of point 1, being a "whatever-a-like" is only a degree of protection from copyright infringement charges, Trademark infringement is a different kettle-of-fish, being "alike" to a trademark will lead you into hot water, it's generally called "passing off" also, unlike copyright infringement trademarks can get you into criminal, rather than civil legal difficulties

Point 2 above is the reason many companies have resorted to trademarking their characters, the protections are MUCH greater for the IP owner, and the legal ramifications to the defendant are of great enough import to warrant thinking twice before infringing, or being "alike" a trademark.

 

[Bluemercury]

That's on the PC no? (it has to be)

Did they even begin start on console work?

xbox and GC at least it was the last time i check the site.

 

[Sho Nuff]

I'm still wondering if there was ever more to this than a few rendered rooms, some character models, and a few seconds of animation?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Why don't fangame makers finish their games THEN let pople know about in and downlod it? Then it'd be all over the place before anything could be done about it.

because they have to showoff first?

 

[JackFrost2012]

Blizzard has let some other people develop some fan projects.

Oh, yeah, they were really supportive of bnet.d, the fan-made Battle.Net daemon. Don't forget how they sued Vin Diesel to force him to rename his film "Diablo."

Big companies protect their IP. If they don't, they lose it. That's how copyright works.

I'm sorry the project was shut down - it looks pretty good! - but I'm not at all surprised. Try to use this trailer to parlay your way into an industry job, or start over with an original idea. Maybe put your art and programming talents to work on a MOD for Unreal Tournament 2004 - or the upcoming Half-Life 2?

Good luck, and don't let this inevitable conclusion get you down.

 

[TekunoRobby]

This project was looking too good and therefor it was cancelled. Although we wouldn't make the mistake but the average consumer could EASILY confuse this for an actual Square project.

The engine, the modelling, and the animation were utterly amazing for a fan project. In fact if this game did eventually become a reality it would have revolutionized the concept of fanmade games and it's sad too see it die.

However like a pheonix this is a godsend for your team, instead of working on an already licensed IP you can create your own (inspired by Chrono or something completely new) game with the engine you have already created. Essentially you've already proved yourselves to the world that you can an extremely capable art team, the hard part is making an actual game out of it.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

This project was looking too good and therefor it was cancelled. Although we wouldn't make the mistake but the average consumer could EASILY confuse this for an actual Square project.

its got nothing with whether it was good or not. Yoy people are unrealistic. Its IP. SE probably just got wind of it. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL any fan/mod of licensed IP can be made/released without a big lawsuit.

see: How Marvel cracked down on the marvel character skins for that superhero strategy game...on the pc. Its a skin mod but still, its IP.

 

[TekunoRobby]

its got nothing with whether it was good or not. Yoy people are unrealistic. Its IP. SE probably just got wind of it. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL any fan/mod of licensed IP can be made/released without a big lawsuit.

If it were just a simple average looking effort would they have even caught wind of it, would they have even cared?

You're not looking beyond the simple IP reasoning, that was already assumed in the equation. A company will not waste it's time or money with some half-assed fan effort that doesn't look anything remotely close to the original product or even offer the same experience. If that were the case then no flash games/cartoons or hundreds of other fanmade efforts would be around.

If companies had unlimited money and time they would hunt down ALL projects infringing on their IP but they do not and only concentrate on the ones making the biggest commotion. Chrono Resurrection obviously fit that description and the same with the example you provided.

EDIT: I don't pretend to know why or how companies operate but I felt like posting a logical explanation (at least to me). For all accounts and purposes Square might willingly search and hunt down every single project that infringes on their IP (I don't see them doing that however) but I felt that description could possibly represent the general opinion on the matter from a legal standpoint.

EDIT2: Ha ha, JackFrost2012. Good point.

 

[MetatronM]

Man, I was kinda looking forward to screwing around with the demo.



Still, had to know it was coming. You should pitch it to Square. If a small group of fans could make a homebrew Chrono look this cool in their free time, imagine what SE could do with the project.

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

Man, last I saw this it looked good (although I felt Crono was far too bulky), but this seems like a vast improvement. What a shame.

You guys really should move on and do your own project from scratch.

 

[JackFrost2012]

EDIT: I don't pretend to know why or how companies operate but I felt like posting a logical explanation (at least to me). For all accounts and purposes Square might willingly search and hunt down every single project that infringes on their IP (I don't see them doing that however) but I felt that description could possibly represent the general opinion on the matter from a legal standpoint..

Logical != Legal.

The sooner you learn this, the sooner you can stop getting sued.

 

[DDayton]

Hmm... NOA + Fund Q + independent developers....

 

[SKluck]

The point isn't really if this is legal or not, it probably is. Companies threaten lawsuits to scare the shit out of you. And it works. They throw thousands of dollars at their lawyers and say "Make this shit stop", little student developer doesn't have the money to even get a lawyer, hence, project is over.

It'd be cool as hell if some (good) lawyers did some quid pro quo work like this, it would get them mad publicity. It's usually not about what is legal or not, its about who has more green.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

You mean pro bono.

Anyway it's as Buddychrist (who quoted KobunHeat) said: Don't protect your IPs and it ends up being public domain. The nightmare of any company.

 

[SKluck]

Yeah, I'm on crack. It's late.

Though it could be quid pro quo, the lawyers could play the beta of the game .

 

[JackFrost2012]

It'd be cool as hell if some (good) lawyers did some quid pro quo work like this, it would get them mad publicity. It's usually not about what is legal or not, its about who has more green.

Pro bono lawyers usually don't take cases they don't have a chance in hell of winning because the Chrono Ressurection team is absolutely entirely 100% in the legal wrong and Square is absolutely entirely 100% in the legal right.

 

[FoneBone]

I mean, it's the same thing as the guy who tried to publish a sequel to Gone with the Wind told from the slaves' point of view -- perhaps it's a good concept for a story, but there's no way it doesn't run afoul of copyright laws.

Actually, the book in question was a parody, not a sequel, and (after some legal hassles) got published.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-5638307-6720031?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

EDIT: No offense, Fenky, I agree with what you're trying to say, but get your facts straight.

 

[sc0la]

My sentiments exactly. If you possess that kind of talent, patience, and drive, don't do fanfiction!

Fennec Fox: Dropping truth like its hot since 19somethingsomething

 

[Sho Nuff]

It'd be cool as hell if some (good) lawyers did some quid pro quo work like this, it would get them mad publicity. It's usually not about what is legal or not, its about who has more green.

Aside from the fact that they have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.

"My client wants to make a new Ghostbusters movie, but 20th Century Fox will not let him do so. I am here to ensure that justice is served!"

 

[JackFrost2012]

"My client wants to make a new Ghostbusters movie, but 20th Century Fox will not let him do so. I am here to ensure that justice is served!"

"Did I mention that tickets to see my new movie, entitled 'Ghostbusters III' ... will be free? Try to stop me now!!"

 

[EmSeta]

Here's what you should do. Get a good salesman, go to Square EA, buy some important people lunch and sell them your project. They could probably convince Square to let you develop it as a second-party team.

You have a great project on your hands. Think business!

 

[Sho Nuff]

Here's what you should do. Get a good salesman, go to Square EA, buy some important people lunch and sell them your project. They could probably convince Square to let you develop it as a second-party team.

You have a great project on your hands. Think business!

Aside from the fact that Square is no longer with EA following the Square-Enix merger.