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[Knightime_X]

in Apex Legends you have way better and more advanced movement possibilities on keyboard and mouse... and it's not even remotely close either.

the single most critical thing is that on Mouse and Keyboard you can loot death boxes while moving the character, basically being able to dodge bullets while looting.
this is completely impossible on controller due to the way Respawn programmed the inventory controls on controller.

then there's tap-strafing which is more situational but also something that keyboard gives you an advantage at.

so no, you are wrong keyboard and mouse in these games, especially Apex, gives you a massive movement advantage over controller simply due to the layout.

noone at high levels plays on controller because of the left analog stick, that is in fact one of the biggest downsides in switching to controller for these players.
and the players that did switch to controller from what I heard in streams etc. unanimously dislike moving with a stick compared to WASD because 8 directional inputs that are always identical is preferable to analog inputs that are always a little different.

Ok but real men use controllers.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

There should always be an option to exclude PC due to wallhackers and aimbotters.

Other than that, it's fine.

 

[Tygeezy]

Controller is better because moving with analog and button arrangement makes more sense than keyboard
Analog aiming takes a bit more finesse, as it's much more difficult to use vs mouse.
Even grandma can use a mouse easily.

You remarks here are more of an indictment on a device specifically made to play games being inferior to something that wasn't designed for that purpose. A mouse being very intuitive for gaming is a very poor criticism. There is still massive skill gap between mouse users. Not everybody is s1mple or Zyw0o despite having a mouse.

 

[Knightime_X]

You remarks here are more of an indictment on a device specifically made to play games being inferior to something that wasn't designed for that purpose. A mouse being very intuitive for gaming is a very poor criticism. There is still massive skill gap between mouse users. Not everybody is s1mple or Zyw0o despite having a mouse.

Sure, but it's far more satisfying to do well with a controller vs mouse.
Even if mouse aiming is easier.
Keyboard is still trash though, I'll never let up on that.

 

[Tygeezy]

Sure, but it's far more satisfying to do well with a controller vs mouse.
Even if mouse aiming is easier.
Keyboard is still trash though, I'll never let up on that.

These are just your subjective opinions.

 

[Knightime_X]

These are just your subjective opinions.

And agreed by many...
We can all agree that kbm makes the most sense for rts games though.
But that's a different subject.

 

[Tygeezy]

There should always be an option to exclude PC due to wallhackers and aimbotters.

Other than that, it's fine.

Console players cheat by hooking up a mouse and keyboard up to a Cronus and getting aim assist + mouse.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Sure, but it's far more satisfying to do well with a controller vs mouse.

Without any aim assist, maybe. With, where is the satisfaction in knowing that every hit you land is thanks to aim assist helping?

 

[Knightime_X]

Without any aim assist, maybe. With, where is the satisfaction in knowing that every hit you land is thanks to aim assist helping?

To be fair, it's not like there is a disadvantage when everyone is on equal ground.
It's like losing to the other guy who also had a lightsaber.

 

[rodrigolfp]

To be fair, it's not like there is a disadvantage when everyone is on equal ground.
It's like losing to the other guy who also had a lightsaber.

It's not about disadvantage. It's about me 1:1 controlling my aiming and not some semi aim bot controlling it with me.

 

[Knightime_X]

It's not about disadvantage. It's about me 1:1 controlling my aiming and not some semi aim bot controlling it with me.

Disable it if it works against you.

 

[Lasha]

Calling KBM players aimbotters while using an aimbot so strong that it would get you permanently banned on most PC games is peak console.

Aim assist in crossplay games like COD and APEX are strong enough to make for even games at the level most people play. Being killed by a KBM player and being killed by a controller player who had aim assist both end up with you dead. I think that aim assist cheapens pro play. It's hard to get excited over plays knowing that there was assist involved.

 

[rofif]

The beauty of a console is that everyone is using the same controller and it’s fair…. In principle

 

[rodrigolfp]

It's hard to get excited over plays knowing that there was assist involved.

Next, we will have pro SIM racers playing with ABS, traction control, stability control, breaking assist, steering assist and ideal line.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Why do you think that you should get help from semi aim bots fooling you that you are better at aiming, if you/your input method sucks at the game?

I don’t need it, my lifetime stats speak for themselves. Also, I was 1% in KZ2. I am fine with shooters.

But why do you think KBM should be allowed to always dominate? I have played almost 2 days of matches on MW2 (46 hours ish), I have NEVER seen a controller play put up ludicrous number yet. My highest is 45, fwiw, on Ks in a match.

In the last few CoD that were crossplay, I would routinely see PC/ KBM rack up MASSIVE numbers.

Just because you want an advantage doesn’t mean it’s a great plan for everyone. It isn’t. Games are much more balanced. It isn’t a skill issue, controller sticks have far less precision and you know it.

 

[Zero_Karisma]

I have no interest in playing against keyboard players. So I’m 100% on board for segregation err…..you know what I mean.

 

[rodrigolfp]

controller sticks have far less precision and you know it.

Then stop using it.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

Console players cheat by hooking up a mouse and keyboard up to a Cronus and getting aim assist + mouse.

Which is worse?

Kb/m vs controller

Or

Wallhacks/aimbot vs standard aim-assist?

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Then stop using it.

I don’t want to. I like playing with controllers.

Why are you so anti having options to separate the players? For nearly our entire gaming life - online console play was exclusive to consoles. You got a kink for bashing on newbs on controllers? Helps you feel powerful? I don’t understand, truly. I thought we lived in a “more options the better” for gaming time?

Edit: I don’t want this to get personal man. I guess we just agree to disagree.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Why are you so anti having options to separate the players?

I didn't say I am against the option. But if you don't have it, seek the best option available.

 

[Jibran#one]

More players is always better, as long as there are no cheaters on PC and just now I saw one in warzone 2 PC is fine aslong as the aim assist is there like mw2
Games which dnt have aim assist controllers are a major disadvantage like r6 seige

 

[Cyborg]

120 fps vs. 60 fps is a difference and a disadvantage for console players. I would love to see XBXO and PS crossplay and PC on its own.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

You remarks here are more of an indictment on a device specifically made to play games being inferior to something that wasn't designed for that purpose. A mouse being very intuitive for gaming is a very poor criticism. There is still massive skill gap between mouse users. Not everybody is s1mple or Zyw0o despite having a mouse.

Just point and click baby, forget aiming!

 

[The_Mike]

So explain shooting and missing by a few pixels?
Where's the assist in that regard?

But mouse is the ultimate aim assist.
It's practically auto aim.

Theres no aim assist with a mouse.
Theres no auto aim.

You have to point and shoot.

Just because a controller is inferior when it comes to shooters doesn't make mouse a overpowered tool.

Controllers are just not build for precision gameplay.

Theres still people who suck with a mouse. But it's just much better and easier than a joystick,whoch is why auto aim is made on a controller, to make it enjoyable.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The beauty of a console is that everyone is using the same controller and it’s fair…. In principle

When I play on Series X I run into several PC users on KBM

 

[TheShocker]

In playing MW2 on both XSX and PS5, with crossplay on, I get way more KbM players on Xbox. Thank god on PS5 I can turn crossplay off!

 

[rofif]

When I play on Series X I run into several PC users on KBM

yeah, consoles support m+kb on new consoles in some games weirdly enough.
It's something that I assume very little use but it can be such a problem

 

[yurinka]

Lol, no. If you lose it isn't a controller issue. It's because you are worse than the other player, unless he/she is a cheater. Git gud.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

yeah, consoles support m+kb on new consoles in some games weirdly enough.
It's something that I assume very little use but it can be such a problem

I do wish they would limit it on pure input base MM but again that divides the community even more

When I am on the PS5 even with cross play on I very seldom see KBM users but do see it often enough when on the series x unless I am not reading these symbols correctly

 

[Kataploom]

Paladins does this, the crossplay is input based and not platform based and you can even see if you want to play with people using all input types, just controllers or just k&m, I think it's cool how they solve it

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I was just placed in a match while playing COD MW2 on Series X using a controller against an entire team on PC users with the house mouse symbol

I just backed out

 

[Tygeezy]

I was just placed in a match while playing COD MW2 on Series X using a controller against an entire team on PC users with the house mouse symbol

I just backed out

You didn’t think your aim assist would be fair to them?

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Lol, no. If you lose it isn't a controller issue. It's because you are worse than the other player, unless he/she is a cheater. Git gud.

You play controller or KBM?

 

[REDRZA MWS]

When I play on Series X I run into several PC users on KBM

You shouldn’t have to though. Cross play enabled you run into them on ps too. Also, console can use mouse input too. Pin this there should be a toggle to only play vs other controller users.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

You didn’t think your aim assist would be fair to them?

No, sim assist merely slows down your reticle when “close” to your target. It’s actually a hindrance at times. Mouse is point and click bs.

 

[Tygeezy]

No, sim assist merely slows down your reticle when “close” to your target. It’s actually a hindrance at times. Mouse is point and click bs.

This game has OP rotational aim assist. It’s certainly not a hindrance.

 

[GeekyDad]

It is an interesting dilemma. All kinds of ways to argue the point. Can't imagine any one option would be the right option.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

It is an interesting dilemma. All kinds of ways to argue the point. Can't imagine any one option would be the right option.

I personally see 0 negatives to offering input specific matchmaking options.

I am open to hear some, but I can’t imagine there being a single drawback.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

This game has OP rotational aim assist. It’s certainly not a hindrance.

I see this repeated by PC dudes a lot, but I have yet to see controller dudes smashing 70+ k’s in matches. Really anybody at all.

But you know what I saw a lot in 2019/CW/VANGUARD? A lot of KBM dudes bashing massive numbers.

I broke 100 Ks as a controller user 3 times ever on 2019. Never on CW (preferred CW over 2019 honestly), didn’t play vanguard enough to really get close.

But I saw dudes go ham with KBM multiple times. Tracking 70+ Ks with consistency. One of those being one of the dudes in my group.

If the AA is so incredibly OP, why aren’t we seeing those nutty numbers yet from controllers?

 

[Jibran#one]

Crossplay is good just should have an option somewhere to play with same input players
So even if ur on PC plug ur controller and join the party
Even with all the aim asist in the world a good PC player will destroy assholes of the best controller players in the world.

I'm on series x and when I am on a massive good kill streaks in the next couple of games I'm paired against majority PC players who are literally gods with God like aims/movement and playing like its the final of World Cup

 

[GeekyDad]

I personally see 0 negatives to offering input specific matchmaking options.

I am open to hear some, but I can’t imagine there being a single drawback.

Hadn't really thought of that. Sure, if they set up a search that allowed players to narrow options to "include" or "exclude" various elements of the match. Yeah, seems like a pretty good way to go. That being said, it has been done plenty in the past, and what ends up happening is you end up with far fewer matches. But yeah, I imagine it's still the most viable way to go.

 

[Hooks]

I personally see 0 negatives to offering input specific matchmaking options.

I am open to hear some, but I can’t imagine there being a single drawback.

I suppose if the player base is small it will split it which will cause long queue times. In saying that, I don't really get this complaint considering how strong aim assist is. Or like others have said just set it up like Apex

 

[Tygeezy]

I see this repeated by PC dudes a lot, but I have yet to see controller dudes smashing 70+ k’s in matches. Really anybody at all.

But you know what I saw a lot in 2019/CW/VANGUARD? A lot of KBM dudes bashing massive numbers.

I broke 100 Ks as a controller user 3 times ever on 2019. Never on CW (preferred CW over 2019 honestly), didn’t play vanguard enough to really get close.

But I saw dudes go ham with KBM multiple times. Tracking 70+ Ks with consistency. One of those being one of the dudes in my group.

If the AA is so incredibly OP, why aren’t we seeing those nutty numbers yet from controllers?

The top players in apex and halo are all using controllers. Call of duty has just as strong as aa as those games if not even stronger.

 

[nemiroff]

I'm back on controller after only having played the game with m/k (g pro, 1600 dpi, 2-2.5 sensitivity) since the first beta. The thing that surprised me the most is the reaction to accuracy time and how much difference it makes in favor to controllers, for me. It makes the average TTK, for me, way lower, like night and day difference (partly because of more reliable and ensured headshot kills due to auto-aim). So yeah.. it's an issue, don't know how IW can fix this.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Hadn't really thought of that. Sure, if they set up a search that allowed players to narrow options to "include" or "exclude" various elements of the match. Yeah, seems like a pretty good way to go. That being said, it has been done plenty in the past, and what ends up happening is you end up with far fewer matches. But yeah, I imagine it's still the most viable way to go.

Yes but with cross play on all major platforms, there being “less” matches shouldn’t be the case at all. If you added the ability to “exclude” a certain input, I could see before you had the massive player base of all major platforms.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm back on controller after only having played the game with m/k (g pro, 1600 dpi, 2-2.5 sensitivity) since the first beta. The thing that surprised me the most is the reaction to accuracy time and how much difference it makes in favor to controllers, for me. It makes the average TTK, for me, way lower, like night and day difference (partly because of more reliable and ensured headshot kills due to auto-aim). So yeah.. it's an issue, don't know how IW can fix this.

Where KBM shines is long ranges

I am working through some plat camos in MW2 so working on long shots and when fighting someone who is just peaking if anyone else runs past the controller goes to follow that person taking you off target

You didn’t think your aim assist would be fair to them?

Nahh if I wanted to fight against full KBM PC users I would play this game on my PC but its too easy to ruin games with cheats that Ricochet will never detect

The good cheaters with good paid cheats know how to not get caught by the automated system

 

[yurinka]

You play controller or KBM?

Both. But I don't cry when I lose blaming the controllers for my lack of skill or higher distance from the servers/ping. The difference between controllers isn't even meaningful for top players, it's an excuse.

In the fighting games genre there always have been a similar controversy saying now that hitboxes are better than arcade sticks, and that arcade sticks are better than gamepads (while other players say gamepads are better than arcade sticks). But there have been tons of players playing with pads, arcade sticks or hitboxes in the finals of the biggest tournaments and also winning them. Because the important is the skill of the player, the player's reaction time and the strategy and what feels more comfortable for the player.

And when playing online, it also plays a huge role the ping with the server which is mostly affected by the distance with the server of each player (in server based games) and the internet traffic between them or the fps achieved by the GPU and display of each player.

 

[01011001]

The top players in apex and halo are all using controllers. Call of duty has just as strong as aa as those games if not even stronger.

Halo has the strongest AA, CoD is second and Apex is third.

Halo has slowdown while aiming near an enemy, it follows the enemy, and it has bullet magnetism where your aim can be off by almost the full size of your reticle for some guns and you'll still get a hit.



CoD does not have bullet magnetism, but it has extremely strong settings for following the enemy and it has customizable slowdown behaviour.
you can set the slowdown to only happen once you are directly on target, this makes fast flick shots basically like a soft lock-on as you now only have to time your shot with the slowdown.



Apex has less extreme enemy following, no customizable slowdown and no aim assist on sniper scopes.
that last one alone means the only 1 shot kill weapon in the game, the Kraber, has zero aim assist applied.

Apex does have 2 aim assist settings tho. on PC only 1 of those is available, and on console there are 2, standard console aim assist and PC style aim assist.

PC style works the same as console sytle, but every aspect of it is weaker (about half as strong) than console style.
the original idea behind having stronger AA on console was to help with the dogshit framerates on last gen consoles, and now even current gen are still locked to 60fps with the long promised 120fps patch nowhere in sight.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Both. But I don't cry when I lose blaming the controllers for my lack of skill or higher distance from the servers/ping. The difference between controllers isn't even meaningful for top players, it's an excuse.

In the fighting games genre there always have been a similar controversy saying now that hitboxes are better than arcade sticks, and that arcade sticks are better than gamepads (while other players say gamepads are better than arcade sticks). But there have been tons of players playing with pads, arcade sticks or hitboxes in the finals of the biggest tournaments and also winning them. Because the important is the skill of the player, the player's reaction time and the strategy and what feels more comfortable for the player.

And when playing online, it also plays a huge role the ping with the server which is mostly affected by the distance with the server of each player (in server based games) and the internet traffic between them or the fps achieved by the GPU and display of each player.

I ain’t crying for anything. I have broken 100 Ks in a match on controller.

It still is ridiculous that people fight against options to exclude certain factors that are more beneficial, and I find it rich seeing PC/KBM getting butt hurt about how most stats are equal today and they aren’t power tripping on 130 K matches against mostly controller guys.

This isn’t even touching on the absolute crux of cheating / hacking issues PC has opened up.

My response to long que concerns is that… those concerns didn’t seem to be a problem in the past. I was an early adopter of ps3. Never had a problem finding a Warhawk match, never in KZ2, etc. CoD laps ALL of those combined in sales.

I also see a lot of arguments for Halo/ Apex, but again - I am purely mentioning CoD. I have said that multiple times.

Regarding fighting genre, a genre I also know a LOT about (I own 2 fight sticks), some games have absolutely been made to be used primarily for controllers - and this is well known. Arc games, for example, it isn’t really hidden. Lots of pros jumping to controller instead on FighterZ for example.

This still isn’t the same thing.

There is no domination across the tournament in most modern games from one to the other. Kind of like now, in MW2, how nobody seems to just be dominating regardless of input. Funny, yeah?

 

[VolticArchangel]

I've been saying this time and again. Kick PC out of the crossplay pool and have it between consoles only, and EVERY problem for console players will be solved.

The aim assist in recent FPS is as strong as it is (since MW2019) because of how ridiculous a KBM with high framerate can be in ANY shooter (FPS or TPS). They're dumbing down the skill ceiling for console players, when it's already down thanks to a controller's and a console hardware's limitations, all just to appease and reason including a dying PC playerbase, so that the console population can carry them and 3rd party publishers can have the PC platform alive for more than 2 weeks since launching a new multiplayer game on PC, by using the console players, who are in the millions. PC averages around 500K~ (including WZ 2.0), thanks to using console's playerbase to boost PC numbers. Just check every other CoD on PC, it's under 1000. It's not even funny.

The only reason this shit is ongoing is because console players don't speak up and console makers don't have a fucking spine, and rules, fearing backlash like the last time it happened for Fortnite when it became primetime news and Sony's stocks were dropping, but they don't understand that the majority of those cries were from PS and Xbox customers who wanted crossplay between themselves and PC was thrown into the mix.

Just unite consoles, kick PC out and no one will bat an eye. The vocal pc minority won't do shit against the majority sales and revenue share where consoles are. Their cries will be unheard, especially when console players make noise, who are the vast majority and in the millions.

This shit will come to an end soon though, and console crossplay will be the definite future, sooner or later.