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[Late Stage Marxist]

This reminds of the awards in gradeschool where the dumb kids would get "most improved" certificates. :lol

 

[satterfield]

No question it's the PS2. Only because its initial games looked like ass. But its best games still can't hang with the most visually impressive from the other two. Way too much texture shimmering and its best looking games generally have confined environments so they can use polygons for detail instead of draw distance. Yes, Metal Gear, I'm looking at you.

 

[JJConrad]

That isn't it, though. That MGS2 shot was perhaps the single best promo shot released...while that is one of the worst MGS3 shots I've seen. Are you suggesting that MGS3 -ISN'T- a huge leap?

I do believe that TTT was better looking than Tekken 4, though, as T4 introduced MUCH more complex backgrounds at the expense of character detail.

GT4 looks better than GT3 all around, but they are still very similar.

I have NO idea where you got that Pikmin 1 shot. I don't recall the game ever looking like that (ie - complete shit). That shots almost looks as if there are no textures being used or something. That's possibly the worst shot I've EVER seen of Pikmin. It looks nothing like that.

The rest aren't bad comparisons.

We aren't attacking you, as it seems you were expecting (and prepared a counter attack). We were simply suggesting the truth. Some of your screenshot choices were simply poor, whether intentional or not.

I don't consider them attacks.. I've just been at GAF far too long and the reaction was very predictable.

So, you're only real complaint is the with MGS shots? My purpose wsa to show both the charcter model and environment in as close to the same pose as possible. I didn't have much to work from. I had a different set of shot in mind at first, both where from in-game playable sections... Had I used those, EVERYBODY would be complaining.


The Pikmin shots are both shots released by Nintendo, both dated to about 6 months prior to release. Pikmin 1 did look like that, though it looked a little better by release. Had I used newer pictures, the results would have been much different. Play both games, side-by-side.... there's more than a little improvement.

 

[dark10x]

I don't consider them attacks.. I've just been at GAF far too long and the reaction was very predictable.

So, you're only real complaint is the with MGS shots? My purpose wsa to show both the charcter model and environment in as close to the same pose as possible. I didn't have much to work from. I had a different set of shot in mind at first, both where from in-game playable sections... Had I used those, EVERYBODY would be complaining.


The Pikmin shots are both shots released by Nintendo, both dated to about 6 months prior to release. Pikmin 1 did look like that, though it looked a little better by release. Had I used newer pictures, the results would have been much different. Play both games, side-by-side.... there's more than a little improvement.

The MGS and Pikmin shots are my main complaints...

MGS3 and Pikmin 2 do both look much better than the originals, you already know that.

I still think that Pikmin 1 shot is unfair. I was JUST playing Pikmin a few days ago, in fact, and it looks almost nothing like that. The final Pikmin 1 looks much closer to the final Pikmin 2 than that old Pikmin shot would suggest.

I don't understand why you are getting so annoyed, though. You expected the response, and you recieved it. Would you have rather had your post totally ignored?

 

[JJConrad]

I'm not annoyed. I just have a lot of free time.

 

[DrM]

Ps2

 

[ManDudeChild]

PS2, but playing the percentage game with visuals is a bit silly. the BC 2% comment makes about as much sense as the 50% Shenmue Comment, the 15% Halo comment (wtf) or my personal favorite, the 25% GT3 comment.

 

[firex]

Phantom.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Voting Xbox.

Looking at Riddick, Rallisport 2 and Halo 2... these are all games that are way ahead of both their peers and their prequels.

Xbox is doing new stuff at higher resolutions and with new effects. PS2 is playing catchup to first gen Xbox game technology.

Common examples (MGS, GT, ZOE) are all games with good design, often undeniably better design, but aren't technically impressive.

Riddick has graphical hitches; won't quibble with RSC2 but HALO2; I don't think it can be included in this comment considering its not out yet. IMO, it doesn't look that great; at least not HUGELY better than most other games out there. But there I haven't seen final build. I didn't like how Shiny MC became though.

I would agree with PS2; for a crappy old console; its titles have improved most since launch. How can anyone disagree; it has had the most time to be worked on and for a weaker chip set; it has most improved.

For people who can't read....

MOST IMPROVED is not the same as best visuals

 

[BeOnEdge]

i'd almost say that the only reason the ps2 has improved AT ALL is because of the GC and XBOX and the reason that the XB and GC havent improved much is because ps2 is the lead platform for most games. take that and chew on it for a little bit see if that spites your little tone there.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

i'd almost say that the only reason the ps2 has improved AT ALL is because of the GC and XBOX and the reason that the XB and GC havent improved much is because ps2 is the lead platform for most games. take that and chew on it for a little bit see if that spites your little tone there.

you almost nailed it except TEH EXCLUSIVES make you their bitches.

 

[Speevy]

PS2 definitely.


But the inevitable conclusion to this thread is a handful of people saying that the PS2 somehow has better graphics than the Xbox and that the Xbox games sacrifice framerate for AA and/or extra bells and whistles.

Let me save those folks the trouble.

No.

 

[DDayton]

I think the GBA has improved the most...

(True, that wasn't a listed option, but I think it would be hard to argue otherwise.)

 

[dark10x]

PS2 definitely.


But the inevitable conclusion to this thread is a handful of people saying that the PS2 somehow has better graphics than the Xbox and that the Xbox games sacrifice framerate for AA and/or extra bells and whistles.

Let me save those folks the trouble.

No.

The XBOX is capable of more technically impressive visuals than the PS2. However, I do feel that many XBOX developers are shying away from 60 fps in favor of other features (or simply can't do it all). I certainly haven't been proven wrong.

Although, it makes a case for Japanese developers and their love of 60 fps. If you look at all three of the systems, the majority of 60 fps games originate in Japan. DOA3, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Orta, JSRF, and a few more all run at 60 fps and look very impressive...while the best looking Western games almost never hit 60 fps.

The fact that so many XBOX racers are being released with framerates under 60 fps (ie - 30 fps) is just very disappointing. They should know better...

Once again, I feel this is a more a fault of the developers. I would also suggest that some of the effects XBOX is capable of take quite a hit on performance. An extreme example of something like this is a GeForceFX 5200. The card can handle DX9 applications just fine (ie - it supports DX9 level featurs), yet it runs them very poorly. Many of the latest XBOX games are starting to use more of the DX8 features of XBOX (among other things), and I think it is difficult to use them while maintaining a high framerate. Notice that those Japanese games which run at 60 fps DO NOT use most of those effects. Ninja Gaiden, for example, does not attempt to push the XBOX hardware in that way.

I think the GBA has improved the most...

Eh, how do you figure? I don't see any major improvements on the GBA. Certainly more impressive games have shown up, but they hardly go beyond the early stuff. Come on, compare first gen PS2 games (complete with awful jaggies, low-res textures, and all kinds of other problems) to the newest software. It's like night and day. That just isn't the case on GBA, where all games remain around SNES level (for the part part).

 

[Speevy]

The XBOX is capable of more technically impressive visuals than the PS2. However, I do feel that many XBOX developers are shying away from 60 fps in favor of other features (or simply can't do it all). I certainly haven't been proven wrong.

Although, it makes a case for Japanese developers and their love of 60 fps. If you look at all three of the systems, the majority of 60 fps games originate in Japan. DOA3, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Orta, JSRF, and a few more all run at 60 fps and look very impressive...while the best looking Western games almost never hit 60 fps.

The fact that so many XBOX racers are being released with framerates under 60 fps (ie - 30 fps) is just very disappointing. They should know better...

Once again, I feel this is a more a fault of the developers. I would also suggest that some of the effects XBOX is capable of take quite a hit on performance. An extreme example of something like this is a GeForceFX 5200. The card can handle DX9 applications just fine (ie - it supports DX9 level featurs), yet it runs them very poorly. Many of the latest XBOX games are starting to use more of the DX8 features of XBOX (among other things), and I think it is difficult to use them while maintaining a high framerate. Notice that those Japanese games which run at 60 fps DO NOT use most of those effects. Ninja Gaiden, for example, does not attempt to push the XBOX hardware in that way.

Well that's all fine and good, so long as you're not using that reasoning to compare PS2 graphics to Xbox graphics.

 

[Naked Snake]

Yeah, the GBA showed technically impressive games since launch, remember Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2? Sure there has been big advances in pushing fully 3D engines, which I consider impressive from a technical standpoint, but not from a practical one.

 

[dark10x]

Well that's all fine and good, so long as you're not using that reasoning to compare PS2 graphics to Xbox graphics.

I'm not.

While it is true that, on the whole, there are a greater percentage of 3D games on PS2 that run at 60 fps than any other system before (proven)...that doesn't necessarily mean they look better.

However, I do believe XBOX developers should consider the importance of a high framerate and shift their focus away from some of the more advanced graphical effects in favor of a higher framerate. Ninja Gaiden may not employ all of the XBOX supported graphics features, but it looks absolutely fantastic due to a combination of quality design and well balanced assets. The models are very high poly (fighting game level), animate beautifully, and move through complex environments. Trying to fill your game with normal maps, advanced stencil shadows, and all kinds of other goodies is all well and good...but a smooth framerate is more important IMO.

Also, IMO, the best looking games this gen are not necessarily the best games from a technical standpoint...but that's another story.

 

[Speevy]

I'm not.

While it is true that, on the whole, there are a greater percentage of 3D games on PS2 that run at 60 fps than any other system before (proven)...that doesn't necessarily mean they look better.

However, I do believe XBOX developers should consider the importance of a high framerate and shift their focus away from some of the more advanced graphical effects in favor of a higher framerate. Ninja Gaiden may not employ all of the XBOX supported graphics features, but it looks absolutely fantastic due to a combination of quality design and well balanced assets. The models are very high poly (fighting game level), animate beautifully, and move through complex environments. Trying to fill your game with normal maps, advanced stencil shadows, and all kinds of other goodies is all well and good...but a smooth framerate is more important IMO.

Also, IMO, the best looking games this gen are not necessarily the best games from a technical standpoint...but that's another story.

Good points. Can you give me a short list of the greatest looking games from your perspective? As in, nothing like that soundtrack list.

 

[cvxfreak]

PS2 has definitely improved the most in graphics, mainly because it's power hasn't been fully tapped unlike the other two, which reached what could be considered their peak a lot earlier. So it's not a fair match as, say, GC and Xbox.

 

[dark10x]

Good points. Can you give me a short list of great looking games from your perspective? As in, nothing like that soundtrack list.

Ah, come on...you know you LOVED that list.

OK, here's a short list of my favorite looking games this gen (console only)...

JSRF
Ninja Gaiden
Metroid Prime
Panzer Orta
ICO
The Bouncer
Metal Gear Solid 2
Shin Megami Tensei III
REZ
Silent Hill 2
Silent Hill 3
Silent Hill 4 (yes, I love SH and love the art style)
Zone of the Enders - The 2nd Runner
Primal
Beyond Good & Evil (despite technical problems on EVERY platform...)

Of upcoming games, just a few off the top of my head...

Metal Gear Solid 3 (!!!!)
Wanda to Kyozou (even more !!!!!)
Resident Evil 4
Metroid Prime 2
Halo 2

 

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't say that.

I'd say Sony gave sh*t for developer documentation, no high level libraries, and a system design that took a looong time for them to come to grips with. Now that developers have gone through several generations (and SCEI has done much, much better in terms of sharing advancements & info w/developers) , they're finally getting to where they don't have to fight the system to get good results.

Give that man an award.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

PS2, easily.