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[olimario]

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Currently I'm wading through the collectathon that is Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. It's fun when I'm solving puzzles and fighting enemies, but the collecting and backtracking in this game is absolutely horrible. I didn't even notice it in Prime.
I think it's the whole light/dark world aspect and the fact that traversing the dark world sucks that makes it so terrible.

The combat is much more fun this time thanks to ramped up AI and enemies that are planned out better. I haven't encountered much puzzle solving yet, which sucks, but I see a lot of Spiderball tracks so I'm sure it's coming.

So far it's an 8/10 because of the lack of immersion Prime had and because of the inclusion of tedious backtracking and collecting.

Super Mario 64 DS
I went into this title thinking that the original Mario 64 was the best 3D platformer ever crafted. That can be seen in two lights. One that says I would be really hard on an analogless update and one that says I'd be blind to all of the flaws.
Be rest assured, it's the latter and I now view Mario 64 DS as the king of 3D platformers.

The main game doesn't use the DS's abilities well, but the updated to the actual game are brilliant and add so much depth. Giving each character unique abilities and then tailoring the world to put those abilities to good use is such a great dynamic. Had they lumped all of the abilities into a super character there wouldn't be the problem solving aspect. I like having to platform with mario to a certain spot, grab the luigi cap and use his invisability to reach my next star. It's wonderful.

And the mini-games are the best diversions since Tetris. Thought I rarely sway from the Shell Bash game, the other games I have are all well made and a nice further diversion.

In Shell Bash I have a score of 62,970. If anyone killed that score, may I ask how?
Anyhow, Mario 64 DS is a 10/10 for the sole fact that it's the best in the genre. Nothing but the game it is based on even comes close for me.

 

[koam]

"It's fun when I'm solving puzzles and fighting enemies, but the collecting and backtracking in this game is absolutely horrible."

Olimario, you are the most biased (and hypocritical) person in the world. I hope you know that right? You loved Wind Waker before you ever played it and you got perm banned over at IGN for constantly bashing Metroid Prime 2 before it was released (oh, and FYI, Andrew Jones DID do the concept art for echoes, dispite what you claim, view the credits). My question is, how can you call MP2 a collect-a-thon and a backtracking fest and at the same time, praise a game like Wind Waker which had more collecting and more backtracking (plus it was slower thanks to that giantic ocean)?

I will agree with you on Mario 64. BTW, you score in the shell game is awesome, it beats all my scores except for my top score of 69,340. The trick is to get all the green shells in a corner for the final shot and then send a green shell there but not at full power.

 

[olimario]

"It's fun when I'm solving puzzles and fighting enemies, but the collecting and backtracking in this game is absolutely horrible."

Olimario, you are the most biased (and hypocritical) person in the world. I hope you know that right? You loved Wind Waker before you ever played it and you got perm banned over at IGN for constantly bashing Metroid Prime 2 before it was released (oh, and FYI, Andrew Jones DID do the concept art for echoes, dispite what you claim, view the credits). My question is, how can you call MP2 a collect-a-thon and a backtracking fest and at the same time, praise a game like Wind Waker which had more collecting and more backtracking (plus it was slower thanks to that giantic ocean)?

Because the pacing in Wind Waker is absolutely dead-on and the collecting isn't so much collecting because you have a guide to follow and objectives to complete in order to obtain the items which you are collecting. In echoes you're blindly searching for randomly placed keys.

I had my initial impressions of Echoes based soley on the media provided and I've reverted on MANY of those opinions since playing the title. A complaint I never thought I would have with Echoes was the backtracking and collecting complaint, yet here I am. It was unnoticable in Prime and it stands out and sours the game in Echoes.

And for the record, I wasn't permabanned on IGN for hating the first Echoes media, you delusional son of a gun.

 

[Scrow]

My question is, how can you call MP2 a collect-a-thon and a backtracking fest and at the same time, praise a game like Wind Waker which had more collecting and more backtracking (plus it was slower thanks to that giantic ocean)?.

heheh

 

[Triumph]

Because the pacing in Wind Waker is absolutely dead-on. And the collecting isn't so much collecting because you have a guide to follow and objectives to complete in order to obtain the items which you are collecting.

I had my initial impressions of Echoes based soley on the media provided and I've reverted on MANY of those opinions since playing the title. A complaint I never thought I would have with Echoes was the backtracking and collecting complaint, yet here I am. It was unnoticable in Prime and it stands out and sours the game in Echoes.

And for the record, I wasn't permabanned on IGN for hating the first Echoes media, you delusional son of a gun.

Uh.... did we play the same game? I mean it was great and all but the pacing went all to hell in the last third of it.

 

[seismologist]

I'm liking Mario DS alot. It makes a good portable game because I can almost always get a star within one setting. With even less time I can pick it up for a quick minigame.

I stopped playing the N64 version pretty early on because I got bored but the minigame incentive in this one drives me to keep playing the main game. I think I'm at 46 stars right now.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

oli, maybe it will encourage you to know that surviving in the dark world becomes easier as you go along, for several reasons. You'll lose the great atmosphere and creepiness of it being such a dangerous place, but the game becomes less frustrating.

 

[Donkeypuncher]

Wind Waker was the most disappointing Zelda I've ever played and the only one I have no inclination to ever play again. So far I love MP2. MP/MP2, along with other Metroids, has always been about the backtracking. Welcome to 1989 or was it even earlier?

 

[olimario]

Uh.... did we play the same game? I mean it was great and all but the pacing went all to hell in the last third of it.

The pacing of the purple chart collecting dead-on because of the inclusioin of the IN-credible chart. I'm not sure many people actually put this tool to good use because I was able to get all of my purple charts in a short amount of time with hardly any down time.

You warp from place to place and complete an objective in order to obtain the chart. That's fun to me. You always know exactly where to go and exactly what to do.

The triforce collecting would have been horrible for me and I can see it being horrible for most because of the fact you have to pay Tingle's wanna-be fair ass to translate those damnded maps, but I went into that with a hell of a lot of booty and a love for the Outset Battle Dungeon.

 

[Deg]

I think they need to improve the start to MP games. There isnt much you can do at the start. They need to give you many abilites from the get go. Spiderball should be in the game MUCH earlier for example.

MP2 is fantastic and pehaps some people's best game this gen. Oli couldnt be more wrong. Wind Waker rocks however. You find most of them items earlier anyway through exploration and sheer curisoity.

 

[Kuroyume]

WW was fun but sailing was slow and boring as shit. You could use the spell to travel more easily but then playing the flute became annoying. I haven't tried Prime 2 yet so I can't comment on that.

 

[olimario]

I think they need to improve the start to MP games. There isnt much you can do at the start. They need to give you many abilites from the get go. Spiderball should be in the game MUCH earlier for example.

MP2 is fantastic and pehaps some people's best game this gen. Oli couldnt be more wrong. I thought he said he completed it last week?

I said no such thing. I don't mind item collecting as I go, I simply mind intrusive and noticable backtracking and I notice 'not fun to navigate worlds' like the dark world.

Prime flowed well and Echoes doesn't. The level of immersion was also greater in Prime due to the lack of pointless cut-scenes and log books you could read upon scan instead of having to access your cumberson log book.

Echoes has better combat, bosses, and enemy types.

 

[koam]

Because the pacing in Wind Waker is absolutely dead-on and the collecting isn't so much collecting because you have a guide to follow and objectives to complete in order to obtain the items which you are collecting. In echoes you're blindly searching for randomly placed keys.

I had my initial impressions of Echoes based soley on the media provided and I've reverted on MANY of those opinions since playing the title. A complaint I never thought I would have with Echoes was the backtracking and collecting complaint, yet here I am. It was unnoticable in Prime and it stands out and sours the game in Echoes.

And for the record, I wasn't permabanned on IGN for hating the first Echoes media, you delusional son of a gun.

For the permaban, that's what I was told but whatever it doesn't change my life, I don't even post on IGN anymore.

As for Wind Waker, maybe if they didn't have you decifering the stupid chards, having to pay money for them and if they had you doing tiny dungeons or puzzles and getting the chards as prizes instead i wouldn't have minded them as much. To each his own I guess, I just found that whole fetch quest in wind waker was worse than the key collection in echoes. Btw

Spoiler

You're going to be very happy to know that once you get the last temple key, you need to collect 9 other keys. You can start getting them now though. It doesn't feel so bad if you backtrack to get more items to fight the last boss cause you'll find them on the way, but it's a pain in the ass. Oh and one last thing, if you read the logs, they tell you where to find the keys

 

[Donkeypuncher]

ocarina>baton

 

[Baconäger]

Prime flowed well and Echoes doesn't. The level of immersion was also greater in Prime due to the lack of pointless cut-scenes and log books you could read upon scan instead of having to access your cumberson log book.

Pushing start after you scan a lore is "cumberson"?

 

[gamergirly]

Uh.... did we play the same game? I mean it was great and all but the pacing went all to hell in the last third of it.

Not the pacing, it was more like the excitement. It would have been different if you only needed to collect a few pieces but gosh. After that collecting rumpkish, it ended pretty great

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Pushing start after you scan a lore is "cumberson"?

actually yes. the menu interface was badly done imo.

lets say you want to collect the final 9 keys.

You want to read the lore and compare it with the key you already haves. You can't. You have to write it down to do so. Also Retro didn't include any sort of marker on the lore if you've already picked up the keys and the only way to get out is to press B about 5-6 times to get out of the keybearer logs and then gain access to the inventory screen.

Now if the game had less useless scans that no one reads - you wouldn't have needed a screen like this because you'd have less clutter.

Prime had that screen with all 8? keys you had to collect on one screen and it would show when you've picked it up. THat same screen also had the hints on for the items you haven't yet found. Echoes does not. And it makes it a tad annoying - I had to go through a literal paper notepad with name/places to do the hunt and I only went that option after going in and out of that menu and getting frustrated.

 

[sc0la]

Uh.... did we play the same game? I mean it was great and all but the pacing went all to hell in the last third of it.

I think it depends on how you played the game, for example, I already had a bunch of the maps before i got to the fetch quest (even a piece or two if I remember correctly) so it wasn't too jarring. That doesn't mean the pacing was right though because it was obviously off.

oh BTW Raoul. I finally got rid of that PS2 you sold me and snagged a new PStwo. I even managed to get just about equal value from it it served me well

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

Prime is the most polished and most refined game I've played all year. I give it Ten starz.