Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
I voted OP is retarded and there's not much more to say than that.
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The Extraction Shooter genre is gamings new "Mario 64 moment", and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Diablo isn't a roguelite. Diablo is a dungeon crawler or ARPG.
From my understanding, the Extraction Shooter has already solved the problem of being an Roguelike. Most of them give you permanent upgrades between matches like a Roguelite.
Well Valve did just start a mass hiring to finish Deadlock, so we'll see in a few years how they fair against one another. No question that Deadlocks success suprised many who kept parroting "The MOBA genre is saturated though". Deadlock represents a finger in the eye to the people who say "sAtUrAtEd MaRkEt".
You wouldn't be surprised either way, which is a nice win win theoretical you've set up here.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I'd be surprised if Marathon is successful, actually. Game has no juice.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
It’s truly baffling that CoD, BF or Farcry hasn’t made a mode like Tarkov using their pre existing engines / tools / assets. Easy money especially considering Tarkov is a buggy, broken, laggy, cheater infested mess lol.
ZehDon
Member
David Brevik would disagree with you, citing Rogue has a major inspiration for Diablo. It's brand of rogue-lite was so good it simply earned its own moniker: ARPG.
Nope. Most Extraction games - be it the dungeon crawlers or shooters - have consumable items that protect item slots from a loss, or, provide passive upgrades, like additional inventory. You can't earn loot like in Destiny and take it with you, safe from a loss. That loss is literally the defining aspect of the extraction sub-genre, and as I've outlined, I believe it'll be the anchor that stops the sub-genre from growing.
The Division's dark zone attempted to solve the hardcore problem by causing you to only lose the items you hadn't extracted in that session. The result was a griefers paradise because there was no penalty for dying if you weren't actually trying to extract. So, campers who are just there to ruin everyone's day would bring in high level PvE loot which they won't lose if they die because they didn't find it in the dark zone, lock down an extraction site, and gank the ever loving fuck out of anyone who tried to actually play the mode. Turned it into a ghost town.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
List of games that had "no juice" two weeks before launch, after showing gameplay:
PUBG, Fortnite, Rocket League, CSGO, League of Legends, Roblox, Minecraft, Rust, Ark, Naraka Bladepoint and so on and so forth...
Juice isn't required 18 months before launch with no gameplay shown. If you want to get cooked in a Marathon forum bet, I'll happily be your Huckleberry.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Hideo Kojima said the crap in his toilet was an inspiration to him when making Death Stranding. Death Stranding doesn't classify as excement. It's a game. No one on earth believes Diablo is a roguelite. I will not entertain such a preposterous suggestion any further.
PendekarRajawali
Member
darrylgorn
Member
DaciaJC
Gold Member
Never change
Men_in_Boxes
. It's nice to have something stable, something consistent to anchor oneself to in this mad world.
Men_in_Boxes
. It's nice to have something stable, something consistent to anchor oneself to in this mad world.
Bridges
Gold Member
Actually, CoD did! It was part of Modern Warfare 2's version of Warzone, it was called DMZ and it was really cool.
Unfortunately most other people must've either disagreed or not known it existed because they dropped support super quickly and it didn't come back with Modern Warfare 3 or BO6. It's such a shame.
OP is wildly exaggerating but after spending a fair amount of time with DMZ I do think Extraction as a genre is ripe to go fully mainstream. The elements are there. Tarkov is PUBG and a AAA company needs to come in and steal it and make it into Fortnite, and that may end up being Bungie's marathon. Though it does give me pause that the biggest, most successful studio in the world already stole it and gave up almost immediately. The audience might not actually be there, but we'll find out for sure when Bungie releases.
TL;DR OP is wrong and high but the genre has potential
bender
What time is it?
Diablo is a roguelike.
coffinbirth
Member
Waaaaay too niche for that sort of comparison.
Umbral
Member
I generally find PvP combat to be unappealing due to its demanding and exhausting nature that requires constant focus. The appeal of an extraction shooter lies in its emphasis on a long-term objective, rather than a quick session. In session-based games, such as battle royales, the core gameplay loop must be inherently enjoyable, as players will be repeatedly engaged in it. With an extraction shooter, players can engage in additional activities within the game world while simultaneously facing the constant threat of being eliminated by other players. This risk is heightened compared to that posed by AI enemies, and other players are also likely pursuing their own objectives. They must decide whether to avoid other players or risk an attack in order to collect items from them. In some ways, it’s similar to Dark Souls invasions.
If I had to choose, I’d probably play an extraction shooter instead. It provides more freedom in playstyle depending on what the player is looking for. I’m interested to see how Marathon ends up. If they can nail the art and world, I’ll probably give it a shot. I’m tired. I can’t tell if I’m making sense.
If I had to choose, I’d probably play an extraction shooter instead. It provides more freedom in playstyle depending on what the player is looking for. I’m interested to see how Marathon ends up. If they can nail the art and world, I’ll probably give it a shot. I’m tired. I can’t tell if I’m making sense.
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Iced Arcade
Member
Had?
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I don’t think any multiplayer can be a Mario 64 moment. It’s too repetitive and relies on other people. Only the most well crafted single player game could pull off a Mario 64 moment.
8BiTw0LF
Consoomer
Here's my take. BR's are mainly for kids and people with short attention span. Extraction shooters are mainly for people over 25 who can put together a plan. That's it. BR's will stay on top and Fortnite will keep reigning for the forseeable future - but extraction shooters will pull in the older audience and gain a lot of traction within the next five years.
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Party McHardy
Member
I dunno about Mario 64 moment but I think it’s a fresh genre with a lot of potential.
hyperbertha
Member
Unburdened by what has been. Or is the fix in?
MAX PAYMENT
Member
When I read "this is why it's a mario 64 moment" and then it went into sales numbers knew this pitch was going to be terrible. I'm interested in trying the genre though.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Gonna have to employ the Evilore Gambit to this one:
____________
Chat GPT... Write a rebuttal to this claim:
This argument is detailed and brings up a lot of historical context, but I’d argue that it overstates the case for Extraction Shooters as “gaming’s next Mario 64 moment” and Bungie’s Marathon as a revolutionary entry.
Here’s a breakdown of why this may be overhyped:
______
Chat GPT... Is the Op a retard?
Yes.
____________
Chat GPT... Write a rebuttal to this claim:
This argument is detailed and brings up a lot of historical context, but I’d argue that it overstates the case for Extraction Shooters as “gaming’s next Mario 64 moment” and Bungie’s Marathon as a revolutionary entry.
Here’s a breakdown of why this may be overhyped:
1. Trend Chasing is Not Inherently Negative, But It Is Real
While you dismiss critics of Marathon as “twits,” trend-following is a well-known strategy in game development. It's undeniable that Bungie has seen the success of titles like Escape from Tarkov and The Cycle and is tapping into this growing genre. Trend-chasing isn’t inherently bad—good ideas inspire iteration. But Bungie’s pivot from its distinct story-driven model in games like Destiny to a more extraction-style, PvP-driven game does resemble trend-chasing. Many gamers view such shifts critically, especially when it means abandoning the identity that drew them to a developer in the first place.2. Not Every Trend Becomes “The New Standard”
Just because extraction shooters are popular right now doesn’t mean they’ll define the next era. The idea of “Mario 64 moments” in gaming tends to center on mechanics that are universally adaptable—3D movement in Mario, open-world environments in GTA 3, or expansive world-building in games like Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Extraction shooters are more niche, with a player base that finds the gameplay loop rewarding but that also isn’t universally accessible. This genre may continue to evolve, but it lacks the appeal and versatility to redefine gaming in the same way as Mario 64 did.3. Historical Comparisons Overlook Key Differences
You’ve used historical sales data on Atari, NES, and PlayStation games to argue that players are gradually shifting away from session-based experiences. But many factors play into those preferences, including hardware limitations and evolving storytelling techniques. Multiplayer gaming trends don’t necessarily parallel this evolution because multiplayer games don’t have the same narrative-driven expectations. The popularity of Fortnite, Valorant, and League of Legends suggests that session-based experiences are more durable in multiplayer settings, as players enjoy the accessibility and quick engagement.4. Narrative Engagement in Extraction Shooters Is Limited
Extraction shooters have a great deal of potential, especially for players interested in survival and resource management. However, to compare them with long-form, narrative-based games is challenging. These games rely more on player-driven objectives and less on structured narratives, which creates a different kind of engagement. Players looking for immersive stories may still turn to traditional narrative-driven games, and those looking for PvP and cooperative experiences might continue to favor well-established games that offer session-based gameplay without the added stress or stakes of extraction mechanics.5. Game Design Complexity Can Be a Barrier
Part of what makes a genre successful on a large scale is accessibility. Extraction shooters often carry steep learning curves and high levels of commitment. While this appeals to hardcore audiences, it’s unlikely to have the mass appeal needed to redefine multiplayer gaming as a whole. Traditional session-based games have a pick-up-and-play simplicity that makes them more inviting to casual and new players. Extraction shooters’ reliance on risk-reward mechanics, complex inventories, and a slower pace doesn’t make them as inviting to mainstream players who crave instant gratification and fast action.6. The “Mario 64 Moment” Isn’t Solely About Innovation
Finally, it’s important to remember that Mario 64 succeeded because it provided a cohesive experience that resonated with a broad audience and felt revolutionary in terms of mechanics, accessibility, and presentation. Marathon, as ambitious as it may be, is entering an already-populated genre without offering the kind of groundbreaking innovation that Mario 64 did. It’s one of many entries in a field where players are already investing heavily in games like Escape from Tarkov.In Summary
Bungie’s Marathon could certainly become a well-crafted and popular extraction shooter, but calling it a Mario 64 moment overstates the potential impact of both the genre and Bungie’s take on it. Extraction shooters may become a staple in the multiplayer genre lineup, but they don’t have the universal accessibility or innovative power to redefine gaming in the way a “Mario 64 moment” would.______
Chat GPT... Is the Op a retard?
Yes.
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MMaRsu
Member
Because it's not that easy?
Tarkov is successful because it has an extremely large item base, leveling systems, hideout that you upgrade, quests etc.
Its not as simple as making a map, dumping the players in there and let them fight it out with weapons they find on the battlefield.
Not saying Tarkov is perfect, its a spaghetti code
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
When extraction goes mainstream, Fortnite will just get an extraction mode to eclipse them all and make it pointless to try to make another, like BR is now. You'd think PUBG was established as the BR king yet it was eclipsed by Fortnite, they can just keep doing it, copying off whatever else works
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So you don't think it will be one of the most successful games of all time and neither do you think it will be one of the biggest failures of all time. Regale us with another wise tale good sir.
Eesha
Member
that is not LEET speaking, is more of a preachy Twitter/X thing
LEET is more like this:
|_0|_ PvvN3|) |\|o0|3
Cakeboxer
Member
That's why i said wannbe, didn't know what tHaT sHiT was.
Wildebeest
Member
If Bungie are not doing something radical to the genre to make it more satisfying to play and more accessible to a wider audience, then they are just chasing a trend. Trying to blow a game up in the genre just with a bigger art budget and more hype is probably not a solid plan.
tylrdiablos
Member
This thread:
Helldivers 2
Actually I'm not sure what constitutes a Mario 64 moment here. We already got the mainstream hit with an extraction shooter above - but it didn't exactly last.
Erhm - I mean MP gaming transitioned from long-form to session based 20 years ago in the first place? (Also to instance based, if we count MMOs, but that's just an aside).
Anyway - the mainstream hit already happened (see above) so yes Bungie is now officially chasing trends, even though they didn't know about it ahead of time.
BlackTron
Gold Member
He should feel flattered that I knew whose post it was just from reading the title.
Insanemaelstrom
Member
Haven't played extraction shooters myself but from what I have heard I do believe it will be massive going ahead, probably on or even above the boon battle royale got. Personally, marathon (depending on how it plays in an open beta or something) might be the first shooter I buy since battlefield 4.
Radical_3d
Member
Not because the inherent quality of the genere but because sheer numbers. The thing is: you posted that on a forum where almost nobody cares. This forum has a surprisingly low counter of popular games users. Take as an example the yearly CoD. NeoGAF is one of the last bastions of traditional gaming. We’re not against and we enjoy ourselves into multiplayer from time to time (and a lot of time usually). But the most active users here are old farts like me who really despised multiplayer as soon as it became a thing at the end of the nineties, because we could anticipate its success and how it’ll transform a medium we all loved. So, will it be the next thing for kids like my nephews, being raised in the poisonous swamp of modern gaming? Yeah. Maybe it’s better that way than the slot machine future we had before. Is it relevant in the forum of image quality nazis, +20% members getting a Pro, Nintendo single player defenders, OT of screenshots that take more time to take than completing the whole game, and so on so on?
Nah.
BigBeauford
Gold Member
Besides Tarkov, I couldn't name any massively popular extraction shooters. And that game is truly a "love it or hate it" affair. We are not in SM64 territory.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Can you OP make a list with all extraction shooters?
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I've defended you in the past, but invoking Mario 64 was a bridge too far for me. You're out of control and must be stopped.
BlackTron
Gold Member
Was OP alive and/or old enough to read when Mario 64 came out? (Note: not a rhetorical question)
Just grappling here with how you can equate this with a Mario 64 moment. If it was a real 64 moment, nobody would be "pretending its not" and need convincing. 64 moment is defined by the whole world gawking with their jaws hanging open. OP was either not there for 64, or just completely utterly full of shit. Best I can do is too young/naive defense.
Just grappling here with how you can equate this with a Mario 64 moment. If it was a real 64 moment, nobody would be "pretending its not" and need convincing. 64 moment is defined by the whole world gawking with their jaws hanging open. OP was either not there for 64, or just completely utterly full of shit. Best I can do is too young/naive defense.