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[Shard]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/2/1606691/-Update-on-the-WI-MI-Recount-Battle

Quick updates in the recount battles playing out in WI, MI and PA. Temporary good news for Stein and company on the sidelines (Hillary):

Wisconsin: A Federal judge rejected the request for a temporary restraining order to immediately halt the recount filed by two pro-Trump PACs. A hearing is scheduled for Dec 9th. So far, the Wisconsin Department of Justice and Attorney General have not taken a position on the recount lawsuit.

In the meantime the WI recount will continue. So far one county—Menominee County, home to the Menominee Indian Reservation—completed its “recount” and added 1 vote to Hillary’s total. But get this stunning irony: Its recounted results found 17 extra votes for Stein and 12 for Libertarian Gary Johnson, while removing two votes from Trump and one from Clinton.

Michigan: The Elections Board deadlocked today on a Trump campaign request to deny Stein's recount request and on how a recount would be conducted. The two Republican members voted to prevent the recount; the two Democrats voted to allow it. Meaning the recount will proceed — unless a court intervenes. And one might. Both Michigan’s Attorney General (a Republican) and Trump campaign have asked state courts to prevent the recount. The MI recount would be by hand.

Pennsylvania: A hearing is scheduled for Monday on Stein's petition to secure a court-ordered statewide recount. As many have noted already, Trump’s lead in PA sank from 70,000 to 49,000. His margin of victory in PA is now only .8%. The automatic trigger for an automatic statewide recount is a .5% margin. Very interesting note in this CNBC article: final counts are still outstanding in some places, including Philadelphia. Wonder if that vote margin will take another hit in Hillary’s favor?

Hard to believe this one: One rather stunning argument is being made in all 3 states by those seeking to prevent a recount: The recount must be stopped because it endangers the state’s ability to certify its election by the federal deadline. Is the absurdity of this argument clear to everyone? We can’t recount, audit or check the validity of an election because that might prevent the ability to make official the results of that election — results that are being called into question by the recount request. And through the looking glass we go …



Update #1: This is a potentially explosive discovery. 5 of the 9 voting machines being used in the recount in St. Croix County, WI may have been tampered with. These are a couple of photos available (Jill Stein added them to her website).

Oh, and these voting machines have USB ports in them … not that anyone would try to insert any unapproved software (or malware).

 

[ultratruman]

Update #1: This is a potentially explosive discovery. 5 of the 9 voting machines being used in the recount in St. Croix County, WI may have been tampered with. These are a couple of photos available (Jill Stein added them to her website).

Oh, and these voting machines have USB ports in them … not that anyone would try to insert any unapproved software (or malware).

Wait what? Who thinks they've been tampered with?

 

[xxracerxx]

Not sure how the missing third party votes in that Wisconsin county is considered ironic.

 

[Shard]

Wait what? Who thinks they've been tampered with?

Oh, right, here is a photo of one of the machines. I think the seal has been tampered with is what that are going with.

 

[ultratruman]

Oh, right, here is a photo of one of the machines. I think the seal has been tampered with is what that are going with.

Does anyone have information about these sticky seals on voting machines? Are they actually there to reveal illicit tampering, or are they standard warranty/repair seals?

 

[RuGalz]

Now what if there's evidences that some are tempered with?

 

[Shard]

Now what if there's evidences that some are tempered with?

Then 2016 gets another dimension of fucked up to it.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Does anyone have information about these sticky seals on voting machines? Are they actually there to prevent illicit tampering, or are they standard warranty/repair seals?

That's what they have always meant to show. That the machine was opened up by someone who shouldn't since they didn't put a new sticker.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Wow that's the smoking gun right there

 

[Speevy]

I knew it! That one vote belonged to Clinton.

 

[Ac30]

Uh, I just checked the NYT election site and ~1,300 votes were cast in Menominee county - with 30 votes being miscounted, that's like 2%? of the votes being miscounted... Unless my math is wrong? That seems worrying.

 

[davepoobond]

if the recount doesnt complete before the deadline, doesn't the house just select trump for president anyway?

 

[TheDeadHeroAlistair]

Does anyone have information about these sticky seals on voting machines? Are they actually there to reveal illicit tampering, or are they standard warranty/repair seals?

It may not explicitly reveal tampering, but it at least does show there was unauthorized access to the hardware. An authorized repairman would have replaced the seal, either with a specific "refurbished" one or with a fresh regular one (depending on company policy and circumstances).

Further investigation is needed, as there are a number of possibilities for this scenario. Service records should have been kept on these machines and should help uncover the story if they exist.

 

[GameAddict411]

There is just too much to digest in this thread, so there might be true election fraud? just wow. It's going to be a shit storm if they find more.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I literally can't even with 2016 any more.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Such a pointless waste of time

 

[Calamari41]

if the recount doesnt complete before the deadline, doesn't the house just select trump for president anyway?

I'm pretty sure I was reading somewhere that in at least one of the states being challenged, the original result stands if they can't finish in time. Which makes sense, because the party in control of the house would be wise to challenge every state that the opposite party won right at the deadline in hopes that some won't finish in time.

I'm sure it's a different story for real recounts, rather than a farce recount like this.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Uh, I just checked the NYT election site and ~1,300 votes were cast in Menominee county - with 30 votes being miscounted, that's like 2%? of the votes being miscounted... Unless my math is wrong? That seems worrying.

This happens every time there's a recount, because there are tons of overvotes (when someone seems to vote for more than one candidate) or undervotes (when someone seems to vote for fewer than one candidate), and both require judgment calls--most overvotes look like one vote and then an errant pencil mark, and most undervotes look like just an errant pencil mark, and elections recounters need to make decisions about both. There's also just precinct level tallying errors, where the voting was counted properly but the results submitted had an error (i.e. a transpositional error like the candidate getting "1,201" votes when they should have got "1,021" votes)

Here are examples of elections with no apparent fraud that went through a recount process--you can see that swings of thousands of votes do happen. This is why most states have automatic recount trigger thresholds, and then secondary thresholds where campaigns can pay for recounts:

Here's an example of the most famous recent recount, the 2008 Minnesota Senate election, for comparison:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Minnesota,_2008#Recount

Missing votes (which happens occasionally, and again even if there is no evidence of fraud):

Of the 4130 precincts in Minnesota, one had to delay reporting its totals because election officials deduced that 133 ballots, all contained in a single envelope, had gone missing during the recount process.[41] After days of searching,[42] the State Canvassing Board decided to use that precinct's election day totals, which included the missing 133 votes.

Challenged over/under-votes or voter registration issues:

In total, Coleman had challenged 3,377 ballots and Franken had challenged 3,278. These ballots were set aside until the State Canvassing Board could meet on December 16 to decide the fate of challenged ballots. Ritchie's office, however, insisted that each campaign voluntarily withdraw some of their challenges, due to the strain a large pile of ballot challenges would place on the State Canvassing Board. On December 3, Al Franken's campaign withdrew 633 of their challenges, and said that they would withdraw more at a later date.[44] The next day, Coleman's campaign responded by withdrawing 650 challenges.[45] By the time all of the ballots that Franken's campaign challenged were examined, he had only 420 challenges left that had not been withdrawn,[46][47] while Coleman's campaign had roughly 1,000.

Improperly rejected absentee ballots:

One of the last—and largest—sources of uncertainty had been the absentee ballots which had been improperly rejected by election officials during the original count. Franken's campaign asked for these ballots to be tallied by each county and counted in the recount results, while Coleman's campaign said the canvassing board did not have the authority to deal with the ballots... As of December 30, county officials had found about 1,350 wrongly rejected ballots. The Franken campaign agreed to count all of those ballots, while the Coleman campaign agreed to a subset, and also wanted to reconsider more than 700 other absentee ballots... Of the 933 ballots that were found to be eligible, 481 were for Franken; 305 were for Coleman; and 147 were for other candidates, were overvotes, or undervotes. The process was broadcast live online.

These issues shouldn't make you think "what a fucking shitshow, it's all a scam", they should make you think "huh, odd, I had no idea it was this difficult." So it's not a surprise to me that there were mistallies or miscounts in this recount either.

 

[Freshmaker]

if the recount doesnt complete before the deadline, doesn't the house just select trump for president anyway?

I think a case could be made for holding off selecting a president until the next election.

 

[Gnome]

I think a case could be made for holding off selecting a president until the next election.

Or we could and probably should allow for a re-vote.

 

[Volimar]

I think a case could be made for holding off selecting a president until the next election.

We're already so far in, we should really leave it up to the voters in the next election.




Hey, it worked for stonewalling SCOTUS nominations.

 

[Kilau]

 

[Vestal]

Such a pointless waste of time

5 out of 9 voting machines with the tamper proof sticker broken and its a waste of time?!?!

Look, I am one of those who believes that a recount won't overturn the current result. That being said, stuff like this is absolutely disgusting. That tiny little seal is there to protect the integrity of a machine made to count your votes. Even if it turns out "its fucking nothing", it is still ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY INSANE that this shit happens. This type of shit lends credence to the conspiracy theories that will surely follow this whole fiasco.

I was skeptical at first, but now I really want to see this recount go through. If for no other reason as to uncover shit like this and try to make sure the integrity of future elections is better preserved.

 

[Ac30]

This happens every time there's a recount, because there are tons of overvotes (when someone seems to vote for more than one candidate) or undervotes (when someone seems to vote for fewer than one candidate), and both require judgment calls--most overvotes look like one vote and then an errant pencil mark, and most undervotes look like just an errant pencil mark, and elections recounters need to make decisions about both. There's also just precinct level tallying errors, where the voting was counted properly but the results submitted had an error (i.e. a transpositional error like the candidate getting "1,201" votes when they should have got "1,021" votes)

Here are examples of elections with no apparent fraud that went through a recount process--you can see that swings of thousands of votes do happen. This is why most states have automatic recount trigger thresholds, and then secondary thresholds where campaigns can pay for recounts:

Here's an example of the most famous recent recount, the 2008 Minnesota Senate election, for comparison:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Minnesota,_2008#Recount

Missing votes (which happens occasionally, and again even if there is no evidence of fraud):


Challenged over/under-votes or voter registration issues:


Improperly rejected absentee ballots:


These issues shouldn't make you think "what a fucking shitshow, it's all a scam", they should make you think "huh, odd, I had no idea it was this difficult." So it's not a surprise to me that there were mistallies or miscounts in this recount either.

Interesting, thanks. I don't suspect fraud, 2% just seemed very high, if it were reflected statewide of course. That would probably be bad!

 

[Scrooged]

"removal of seal voids warranty"

Yeah, that totally sounds like something that's supposed to protect the ballots. This is beyond embarrassing at this point.

 

[DragonSworne]

Interesting, thanks. I don't suspect fraud, 2% just seemed very high, if it were reflected statewide of course. That would probably be bad!

I see a pattern that I would not be surprised if it hold true across the country as well. Republicans consistently get over votes. Who actually counts the votes? Please don't tell me it is Republicans.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Can we just get a do-over on this election? lol

 

[Geist-]

Can we just get a do-over on this election? lol

There's quite a few regretful Trump voters so it wouldn't be a bad idea (not that it would ever happen).

 

[RedAssedApe]

Can we just get a do-over on this election? lol

re-open the polls until jan 1. there still 50% of eligible voters who didnt vote lol

 

[Glass Joe]

5 out of 9 voting machines with the tamper proof sticker broken and its a waste of time?!?!

Look, I am one of those who believes that a recount won't overturn the current result. That being said, stuff like this is absolutely disgusting. That tiny little seal is there to protect the integrity of a machine made to count your votes. Even if it turns out "its fucking nothing", it is still ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY INSANE that this shit happens. This type of shit lends credence to the conspiracy theories that will surely follow this whole fiasco.

I was skeptical at first, but now I really want to see this recount go through. If for no other reason as to uncover shit like this and try to make sure the integrity of future elections is better preserved.

It says "warranty void if removed." I'm not sure it's presence is intended as a tampering detector.

 

[Otakumegane]

Interesting update.

 

[Calamari41]

It says "warranty void if removed." I'm not sure it's presence is intended as a tampering detector.

No man, if that seal is broken it means the Russians got into the source code

 

[Sirpopopop]

It says "warranty void if removed." I'm not sure it's presence is intended as a tampering detector.

Technically speaking, that's the typical verbiage used for tamper proof labels.

 

[Stumpokapow]

No man, if that seal is broken it means the Russians got into the source code

Plan to rig election

1. Cut open warranty sticker
2. Rig election
3. Win election
4. Hope no one notices we cut open the warranty sticker, which we surely cannot print more of

 

[jurgen]

Oh good. I wanted an update on recounts from a source that's one step removed from being the Alex Jones of the Democratic party.

Pity the many, many gullible Democrats who, having suffered one round of terrible heartbreak a few weeks ago, have now set themselves up for round two thanks to Jill Stein. The weird thing is, I’ll bet there’s heavy overlap between Dems who think the election was rigged and those who think the recount will show Hillary won. If the powers that be were willing to rig it the first time, why wouldn’t they rig the recount too?

Also, this is fun: Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016.

Stein votes/Trump margin:
MI: 51,463/10,704
PA: 49,678/46,765
WI: 31,006/22,177

 

[n0razi]

Can we just get a do-over on this election? lol

With the way 2016 has been turning out, watch Jill Stein win if we did a reelection

 

[soco]

Pity the many, many gullible Democrats who, having suffered one round of terrible heartbreak a few weeks ago, have now set themselves up for round two thanks to Jill Stein. The weird thing is, I’ll bet there’s heavy overlap between Dems who think the election was rigged and those who think the recount will show Hillary won.

it's funny to watch people make this assumption. Is there a word for preemptive schadenfreude?

 

[Vestal]

"removal of seal voids warranty"

Yeah, that totally sounds like something that's supposed to protect the ballots. This is beyond embarrassing at this point.

Weirder things have been found in how elections are run though.

Lets say for instance that the sticker was broken for a legit reason, well then there must be a log. Opening voting machines should carry with it a log of who, when and why. Not to mention that such a seal should be replaced after the service. These are not fucking desktop machines that the repair shop will take away your warranty if the sticker is broken, THESE ARE FUCKING VOTING MACHINES.

This kind of shit should outrage everyone. It cast doubt on the integrity of those machines when there should not be.

If there is a good reason for that then they better cough up the receipts.

 

[OuterLimits]

I pulled up the Wisconsin recount spreadsheet and got a migraine after about 5 minutes. Before giving up, I noticed the recount votes were pretty similar, which isn't surprising. Trump would gain a vote or two in one area, and Hillary would gain a vote or two in another. So far, it seems to be a wash. Although still many areas left, but if it goes like what has reported so far, it's not going to be that exciting.

Had Hillary won Pennsylvania and Michigan, then Trump would have 270. The single electoral vote he won in Maine would have put him over the top.

 

[KingBroly]

https://twitter.com/NoMoreWarTY/status/804758817481388032

She's the one who hauls the votes. Illegally accessed them alone.


This tells me that they're trying to hack the machines during the recount process.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Oh good. I wanted an update on recounts from a source that's one step removed from being the Alex Jones of the Democratic party.

Pity the many, many gullible Democrats who, having suffered one round of terrible heartbreak a few weeks ago, have now set themselves up for round two thanks to Jill Stein. The weird thing is, I’ll bet there’s heavy overlap between Dems who think the election was rigged and those who think the recount will show Hillary won. If the powers that be were willing to rig it the first time, why wouldn’t they rig the recount too?

Also, this is fun: Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016.

Stein votes/Trump margin:
MI: 51,463/10,704
PA: 49,678/46,765
WI: 31,006/22,177

I dont think there are many democrats who actually expect something to come of this... the audit is what is interesting. Still doubt many expect anything to come of that either.

 

[Dhx]

https://twitter.com/NoMoreWarTY/status/804758817481388032

She's the one who hauls the votes. Illegally accessed them alone.


This tells me that they're trying to hack the machines during the recount process.

Huh?

 

[PartTimeWarrior]

Oh, right, here is a photo of one of the machines. I think the seal has been tampered with is what that are going with.

Wait this machine was on the floor at a voting facility? Did no one notice someone opening this machine?

 

[Finalizer]

I think a case could be made for holding off selecting a president until the next election.

Just do it NC GOP style: Throw enough mud at it until it looks too dirty to be trustworthy and throw the whole thing out!

(Would work a lot better if we actually had congress...)

Spoiler

/s

 

[Kilau]

https://twitter.com/NoMoreWarTY/status/804758817481388032

She's the one who hauls the votes. Illegally accessed them alone.


This tells me that they're trying to hack the machines during the recount process.

What am I looking for? I honestly don't know what this is supposed to show.

 

[Freshmaker]

Just do it NC GOP style: Throw enough mud at it until it looks too dirty to be trustworthy and throw the whole thing out!

(Would work a lot better if we actually had congress...)

Spoiler

/s

Let's see...

This presidency is a total disaster. We need to repeal it ASAP. We want our America back again!

 

[Escape Goat]

What am I looking for? I honestly don't know what this is supposed to show.

she just threw something whurrrrrrr

 

[bootsthecat]

So what's the deal now...She dropped the recount request in PA because of the $1M bond she needs to put up...isn't that the kind of stuff the money she raised was for? Dd she not know about that potential when she started the recount campaign? Without a PA recount, even if the other two states end up switching to Hillary enough to win the ec?

She made some nice bank here imo.

 

[Breads]

I did hear once that Trump said the election was rigged.

 

[Geist-]

So what's the deal now...She dropped the recount request in PA because of the $1M bond she needs to put up...isn't that the kind of stuff the money she raised was for? Dd she not know about that potential when she started the recount campaign? Without a PA recount, even if the other two states end up switching to Hillary enough to win the ec?

She made some nice bank here imo.

From what I understand, it's because Wisconsin is forcing Stein to payout nearly $4m for its recount instead of the previous $1m, plus other unexpected fees in Michigan. Stein will still be pushing for county-by-county recounts in PA according to her lawyer.