travisbickle
Member
Didn't some right-wing nut drive a car through a crowd of people killing one lady?
And we're comparing smashing windows to isis?
And we're comparing smashing windows to isis?
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Daily Show host Trevor Noah says people see Antifa as "Vegan Isis"
- Thread starter kitsunelaine
- Start date
Y'all are freaking out. I watched this segment last night and Trevor was on point.
The people he's talking about in the video are bored neckbeards, not any sort of viable movement.
Half that segment is him making fun of Fox News' over exaggerated response to the violence, where commentators mention that Antifa should be added to the terrorist watch list (and pointing out the hypocrisy that they didn't mention that kind of stuff during the Charlottesville violence)
The people he's talking about in the video are bored neckbeards, not any sort of viable movement.
Half that segment is him making fun of Fox News' over exaggerated response to the violence, where commentators mention that Antifa should be added to the terrorist watch list (and pointing out the hypocrisy that they didn't mention that kind of stuff during the Charlottesville violence)
Telling isn't it
There have been a flood of op eds and thinkpieces equating Antifa to neo-Nazis. And comparing something to ISIS is a particular type of criticism
Criticizing something is not the same as saying its the exact same as something else. The fact that property destruction is not one of our goals is exactly what the fuck we're talking about. It could even be people paid to make us look bad, and yet to question it is to push the narrative that we are as bad as nazis? That is not the same thing. Not everything is "both sides narrative". You are essentially saying that to question anything that anyone does who so much as says they are antifa is the same as saying "we are as bad as nazis.".
fabricated backlash
Member
What a load of tosh. I've spoken to so many animal rights activists, who had their year long political work and lobbying undone by some fuckboys breaking into labs, farms, destroying equipment and creating property damage, ultimately not even saving animals, because they didn't have the capabilities to care for all these animals.
And that's just one example. Rioting antifa idiots, smashing cars and windows have created a fertile ground for right wing propaganda to influence centrists into believing the both sides are equally bad myths.
And that's in central europe, where left parties are much beter established than the US (where let's face it, the left doesn't really have political establishment. The Democrats wouldn't even be considered centre left here)
The actions of a few can and have destroyed whole movements, so this constant deflection by the left as centrists being automatically right wing is nothing but a load of intellectually lazy horseshit. Stop using the word historically to support your make-believe hogwash, when you obviously have not even the faintest understanding of it.
Agreed?
Oh come on. Vegan clearly wasn't the insult at all, stupid as it may have been.
This. Not saying what he said was "right" but his point still stands about violence within groups such as those mentioned.
Nazis are the worst
Won't someone think of the windows
Feel free to multitask all you want. Any help you can provide in identifying the real threat from the left would be very much appreciated by the federal government.
It's funny to think that, had Trump not both sidesed and threw the alt-left into his unhinged rant, this segment probably wouldn't exist and we'd be arguing about something relevant to our problems right now.
Do you think when Trevor said people think of Antifa as kind of a "vegan ISIS", on the daily show, on comedy central, that he was saying antifascists are as bad as isis, or that he was making a joke, as a comedian, about peoples perceptions of Antifa?
So you think Trevor Noah and me and a few other people in this thread talking about smashing windows are agreeing with Trump that the violence in Charlottesville was both sides fault? I hope you understand not only how much you're reaching, and not only how ironic it is that you talk about Trump "both sides"ing but then proceed to equate us talking about anarchists fucking with the reputation of the liberal cause to blaming a tragic death of an innocent person by a nazi on both sides, but also just how fucking offensive what you're saying to me is. And for what? To make some smartass point about how Im too moderate? To reject your own kind in an effort to let me know how not liberal enough I am?
Might wanna take your own advice, being willing to throw out that "both sides" horseshit so freely. Criticizing something I agree with on the whole because it works against the movement doesn't make me anything but someone "with a brain" seeing a problem.
I agree it's a relatively small issue. It's still an issue. It doesn't make me centrist, fascist, or brainless. Jesus.
Ville Pukema
Member
Because it hasn't been posted in this thread yet
Tolerance of bigots is not the answer.
Good meme and all, tad simplistic. Being against antifa doesn't mean being tolerant to nazies. Quite the strawman to equate so. Fun meme nonetheless.
I mean I get that he's joking I just don't think it's particularly funny
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I think he said "Vegan ISIS" as in "Diet Terrorism".
Poor choice of words, and to be fair, you're right.
There's much worse shit to be condemning.
But to maintain some semblance of order the good side needs to play smarter.
If the goal is to overpower and not outplay the Neo Nazis then destruction is sure to follow.
I'm not a big fan of the scorched earth tactics.
my biggest issue with antifa is their lack of a coherent ideology (or at least voicing that ideology) and their terrible messaging. both fixable. but I don't really think that they will be, because I think the coalition is made up of two wildly disparate ideological groups that actually share only tactical goals, but not outcome goals.
It's hard for me to get worked up about the entire left being painted with the antifa brush. That's nothing new.
It's hard for me to get worked up about the entire left being painted with the antifa brush. That's nothing new.
This is super disengenuous to the point of the video.
I don't disagree with Trevor that property damage makes a movement look bad to moderates. (Most forms of protest that they have to take note of make a movement look bad to moderates. A peaceful sit in that might get in the way of their meal looked bad to "moderates.") I also don't prioritize property over violent direct acts and vandalism against minority groups or their places of worship, which have been on the rise this year.
I'm not sure what purpose he thinks this message serves other than to be somewhat self-congratulatory for taking the "right" moderate stance. No one who performs these acts will be convinced by the paternalistic tone. All it really seems likely to do is reassure so-called centrists that they were right all along to disdain and distrust these counter-protestors as a whole -- and I guess start a discussion on GAF, but we hardly need prompting for that.
I'm not sure what purpose he thinks this message serves other than to be somewhat self-congratulatory for taking the "right" moderate stance. No one who performs these acts will be convinced by the paternalistic tone. All it really seems likely to do is reassure so-called centrists that they were right all along to disdain and distrust these counter-protestors as a whole -- and I guess start a discussion on GAF, but we hardly need prompting for that.
it does make you someone who's carrying water for white nationalists
"Democratic People's Republic of Korea" sounds pretty rosy too
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
"Confused" is how I think the clip comes across.
I think it is more a fallacy of reduction than strawman. Anti-fa is ONE way to actively oppose nazis. if you aren't taking some active action whether it is protesting, fund raising for opposing groups, etc. than you are being tolents. Not everyone has to punch nazis but punching nazis is one way to be in active opposition of their ideas.
No, it doesn't.
gutter_trash
Banned
legacyzero
Banned
Camparing Antifa with ISIS or literal Nazis is pretty dumb. A bit like saying the Allies are as bad as the Axis.
That said, Antifa themselves are pretty damn bad at times. I've seen videos of them attacking journalists, and people within their own group. That's the part I hate about them. Seeing a lot of misdirected rage instead of pointed efforts. You have to give folks like Antifa credit though. After Charlottesville, I'm all in on the #PunchANazi bandwagon.
That said, Antifa themselves are pretty damn bad at times. I've seen videos of them attacking journalists, and people within their own group. That's the part I hate about them. Seeing a lot of misdirected rage instead of pointed efforts. You have to give folks like Antifa credit though. After Charlottesville, I'm all in on the #PunchANazi bandwagon.
Maybe he wants people to realize that having extreme anarchists associating themselves with us is a bad thing, maybe distance us and what we want away from that extremist sect a little? Disavow the bad apples so that it doesnt sully our good fight?
yup. as I edited my post to add, I think that Antifa is a coalition united by its means (violence or at least willing self-defense) rather than its ends. unless you fix that, it's just another group with outsize self-importance that will achieve nothing.
It serves as an effective auxillary group to the other movements and activists protesting, but I have doubts that it'll ever grow into anything more than a Fox News boogeyman.
hey, if it makes racists afraid to show their face in public because they saw it on Fox News, that's a perfectly acceptable outcome to me.
I think there are people who are not only comfortable with critiquing violent elements of their own 'side', but actively try to root them out and expel them before they become established.
It sounds like a lot of people then immediately respond to these criticisms with a sarcastic 'both sides' meme, or maybe they'll put effort into it and make their points with words (which sincerely, I appreciate).
However, like... What do you want people to do? Do you want them to never criticize the violent elements of their own groups? Is pacifism no longer an acceptable ideology?
I'm not going to get upset if someone in my 'camp' has a slightly different opinion on stuff than me, as long as we generally gel, I think it's valuable that we're not intellectually and politically homogenous - but violence? Never going to be okay with that - punching Nazis isn't ever going to be sexy to me.
It sounds like a lot of people then immediately respond to these criticisms with a sarcastic 'both sides' meme, or maybe they'll put effort into it and make their points with words (which sincerely, I appreciate).
However, like... What do you want people to do? Do you want them to never criticize the violent elements of their own groups? Is pacifism no longer an acceptable ideology?
I'm not going to get upset if someone in my 'camp' has a slightly different opinion on stuff than me, as long as we generally gel, I think it's valuable that we're not intellectually and politically homogenous - but violence? Never going to be okay with that - punching Nazis isn't ever going to be sexy to me.
Well said and reasoned. This really is one of the key strengths of the right.
Random people deciding to take the law into their own hands just generally isn't good for society. Civil disobedience is one thing, but antifa isn't MLK -- they cover their faces because they're not willing to face the consequences of their actions.
There is a reason we have videos of legit protestors throwing their bodies over neo-nazis to protect them from getting killed by antifa anarchists. I also don't buy into the whole the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing.
There is a reason we have videos of legit protestors throwing their bodies over neo-nazis to protect them from getting killed by antifa anarchists. I also don't buy into the whole the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing.
DeviantBoi
Member
Just finished watching the entire segment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpqnxpYUqA
I agree with the points he made. Trump and the alt-right will just use antifa's violence to their advantage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpqnxpYUqA
I agree with the points he made. Trump and the alt-right will just use antifa's violence to their advantage.
Most of what I've seen about antifa was during those berkeley riots but they were definitely doing more than smashing windows. Plenty of videos of them ganging up and using weapons to beat people who were going to see that Milo guy speak. Sometimes even continuing after the person is laying unconscious. Even remember reading about at least one guy who was just a passerby but got attacked because he "looked like a nazi". My impression is that care more about living out violent fantasies than making any kind of positive change.
What's new is we have a white supremacist in the White House whose incompetence has him backed into a corner and the only humans on Earth that will still support him unequivocally are the white supremacists who help him get elected.
Maybe I'm a paranoid nutjob, but I'm of the opinion that we kinda have an active, dangerous situation here, regardless of whether protestors are out there standing between Nazis and the people they want to hurt or not. White supremacists groups are heavily armed, more organized than ever, they're radicalizing young disaffected males through the internet (mountain dew ISIS, if you will), they've grown to be much more effective in their messaging and they've got a narcissistic sociopathic ally in the White House who is rapidly becoming a crazy man with nothing to lose.
It's hard for me to get worked up about people trying to shame protestors over some property damage. That's nothing new.
Okay? obviously, I agree with you.
gutter_trash
Banned
La Meute (Quebec' Alt-Right) used it against them when they marched silently (tactically) then ANTIFA engaged them with violence.
the local Quebec media instead focused on ANTIFA's use of violence because violence was used even though La Meute are scum.
La Meute played a PR game "proteste in silence" and drew "sympathy" from average people
that's what happens when people in power (*cough* the President *cough*) use the "both sides" argument.
But they would have used non-violent protests to their advantage no matter what.
Alright, I must have misinterpreted the "hard for me to get worked up bit" because I'm thoroughly worked up by it. My bad!
I don't know what you think, all I know is I'm going to continue rolling my eyes at any liberal who thinks now is the time to parrot the trusty old talking points we see come from the right every. single. time. there's civil unrest and protest.
Also, I apologize if I come across as accusing you of not being liberal enough. You're being super liberal right now.
Well, by all means. Once they are putting their genocidal plans in place, you have my blessing to punch or shoot them in the fucking face, because at that moment democracy is gone.
But please, those cunts will never reach that ultimate goal, and by using violence against them you only offer them a victim-role, which might actually legitimize them in the eyes of some people. Like I said before in this thread, I've seen it many many times in my own country: a leftwing or union protest is staged, thousends of peaceful protesters march and use their democratic rights and power, and a fringe group of antifa or leftwing extremist think it is a good idea to burn some cars or smash a policeman in the head with a bottle and imidiatly the effect of the whole protest is nulified in the eye of the public opinion.
Those people agree with the holocaust.
They need to be punched as often and as hard as possible.
But exactly that happened only 80 years ago.
no worries!
unfortunately, I think we're in total agreement that protesters are going to get shit on regardless, at a time when public protest is more urgently needed than ever before.
HarryHengst
Member
Either you punch nazi's until they do not dare show their faces anymore, or you tolerate them. You cant have your cake and eat it as well.
No its right. We all know what Nazis are capable of and neo nazis aspire to be as horrifying as their historical counterparts. So its best to stop them howevee you have to.
As a minority I applaud Antifa for fighting back instead of just laying down to take a mauling.
Yes it is. Antifa isn't an organization. It's a politic.
Antifa also marched in Boston's peaceful counter-protest. Right wingers do not need the left to be violent to label them as such.
I'd rather have a group out there protecting others from violence than having a bunch of peaceful protesters filming the beating of a black man on their phone.
At what point does inaction become complacency?
I'd rather have a group out there protecting others from violence than having a bunch of peaceful protesters filming the beating of a black man on their phone.
At what point does inaction become complacency?
HarryHengst
Member
This just shows that ''the public opinion'' was hostile to the demonstrators anyway, and just needed any reason at all to turn on them.
The same will happen with all the ''but punching nazi's is wrong'' people: they will join the fascists if push comes to shove and its a choice between them and some left movement.
That doesn't mean that the correct response to them spinning it is "they're gonna pillory us either way, so might as well be violent!"
LordKasual
Banned
this is a gaf thread alright
No. If Trevor or someone does that let me know. Meanwhile, try watching the segment.
Muffin1611
Banned
You have no clue of Antifa if you think it simply mean anti-fascist and every non-Nazi is that by default.
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